Recs for international students interested in greek life?
 

Heyy guys,

So I've been looking through the greek life system in the US and I couldn't help but wonder how many international students take part/get selected to a sorority/frat? So apparently, you need stellar gpa and ECs and all that (but depending on the university ur attending, you probably already have all that..) BUT besides all that, they look for recommendations from greek alums...Usually, if you are an in-state student or if you have legacy or at least anyone ( a teacher, neighbor) who is a greek alum, you can get a rec from them. But whats the case for international students? How can an international student (who does not have a legacy or know a greek alum) get recs? I am aware that the Panhellenic council assists students participating in rush find alums who can write recs but I've only heard of this happenning in the US...does the council find alums for an international student too?

*And before anyone goes on to say that recs aren't important in all US universities..I'm focusing on the southern ones (UT Austin and such?) :)

So..wow that was a a lot to ask... It would be great if you're an international greek or an alum who could clarify this for me! Thank you xx

Well, it all depends. Some international students know Americans - or maybe are American and just live overseas for various reasons - and they network that way. Some groups don't want international members as they often are just her for one year. And some will get pledged due to their resume and how they click with the members as the members may want the experience of having an international member.

Well, I'm not american but I do go to an International School here in my Country (India)...Our school's affiliated with most of the Universities at US and yes, we have staff from the US too but I doubt any of them were Greek. I could ask...but do you think contacting the Embassy (they have this inquiry system especially for students in this country pursuing an education in the US) would help? Would they connect me to the Panhellenic women in my country (if there are any)? How likely is it that an international student is selected to be in a sorority? I'm just worried that even if I do find a women, I could probably just get one or two recs...but the southern rush needs at least 1 or 2 for each chapter! :/

I think making those contacts with your American teachers and the Embassy is an excellent idea. As for whether or not any particular campus/group would be interested in a foreign student, I really can't say. I know it happens but it isn't up to me - or any of us here - to decide. The Greek Life office at your American university might be able to give you some guidance.

Check with the American Women's Association or Club where you are. They undoubtedly will be able to help you, although you may need to spoon feed them the information. Do some legwork to find the nearest AWA or AWC near you. Once you have that, send me a PM and I'll walk you through exactly what to ask. I was the communications director (receiver of the emails) for the AWA in Dubai and I'd have been thrilled to receive this kind of an email.

And don't assume your teachers or friends' parents are not Greek or don't know Greeks. I would ask all of them (even the men), not just if they are sorority members, but if they know any. Without any work at all I was able to gather a list of 6 or 8 sororities represented within my group of friends in Dubai. If I'd have really worked at it I probably would have come up with almost every one.

Regarding the highlighted part, do you mean that a number of international students have been selected in the past? And yes, I understand it's the sororities' decision to pick who they want but what do you think/hear of is the main reason why many international students (who did rush..) are not picked by sororities?..(I've been looking through some of the threads on UT Austin rush and very few people on it are international..)

I never actually thought about the AWC or AWA...thank you! ...I'm currently starting my senior year of HS (its still summer but in a few weeks i will..). And obviously, I don't have an acceptance in hand yet but I plan on starting to work on my rush recs and resume after the acceptance...that is when I think I should contact the AWA/AWC. Do you think this is a good idea or do you think I should start talking to them in the coming motnhs itself, to get to know them?

Thank you soo much and yes, I'll PM you once I begin the process :)

International students have been selected by chapters before. Of course it happens. How often it happens, at what schools in happens, and the ratio of international students rushing to how many are selected.. we can't say. Unless of course there is some study out there providing specific numbers regarding such things.

The reasons why potential members are selected are part of the private membership selection process (which varies by sorority, and by chapter), and no one here will be able to tell you specific reasons why anyone is or isn't chosen for membership.

In general, international students run into more challenges - finding recs, understanding the Greek life culture, assimilating with the student body as a whole. They usually don't have the luxury of being a legacy or knowing active sisters with whom they attended high school. And in some cases, there are even language barriers. Any or all of these factors can be hard to overcome depending on the student and the school they're attending.

However, to give you definitive answers as to why an international student wouldn't receive a bid would be the same as providing specific answers as to why a student born and raised in the U.S. wouldn't receive a bid, and... we just can't say.

Ahh...I understand :) I really don't have any of those issues other than the fact that I have no legacies and I wasn't born/raised in the US. Will still give it a shot and see how it goes! Thank you! :)

To start: this is all anecdotal. I did not attend UT or any SEC school. I will not be revealing any membership selection, as that is private. However, during my time as a active, my group pledged 1-2 international students per pledge class. We were generally the only sorority (out of 5 at the time) to do so. About half of the international students we pledged dropped out of the sorority. A few of them I think only rushed because that was campus culture (80% Greek) and really didn't know what they were getting into. The other half were some of the best, coolest, most dedicated sisters we had. I roomed with a girl from Israel who taught herself English in high school by watching Friends. A
She attended every event we had, and had one of the highest GPAs in the chapter. She put me to shame! Personally, I think the other chapters missed out by not pledging international students, but the retention rate was poor enough that they may not have felt it was worth the risk.

I suppose my point, which I seem to have lost, was that you may need to impress on the sororities during rush that you DO know what you're getting into and are going to stick it out. I think putting in enough legwork to secure recs from India will help that a lot. No one can tell you what your chances are, but I think you're going about this the right way.

Okay, she learnt english by watching Friends?! :O that is very interesting indeed. So is the retention rate of international student, as you said. I'm glad to hear that some sororities consider internationals though haha thank you so much! :) xx

When you go back to school, then get in touch with the AWA. If you have any American friends, their moms might be able to help with that. You don't need recs anywhere near that soon, but it might take you awhile to make the connections you need to make. Besides, if you meet your friend's mom in September, you could actually know her well by spring when it's time to write that rec. And definitely start asking your teachers as soon as school kicks in. Again, they might be able to help, but everything takes longer when you're so far away. And word will get around, but not necessarily at lightning speed.

Do you use Facebook? Maybe as you start to finalize what school you will be attending you can post about needing sorority recommendations. A lot of people from India come to the US to study right? Maybe some of your friends have relatives or friends of the family who studied here who were in sororities or know people who were in sororities who they can connect you with. Work your network and you might be surprised what you find!

My daughter is a current member of the same chapter, and I spent some time reflecting on this issue after recruitment. This school combines 80% GLO membership with highly competitive admissions. Like other highly ranked schools, it attracts international applicants and a diverse applicant pool. Many of the daughters of immigrants and international students on my daughter's floor did not go through recruitment. Of those who did, it struck me that they seemed to make up the majority of those released. I know MS is private, but that is troubling to me. I'll refrain from saying any more.

One of her pledge sisters is from Mongolia. It would have been a real challenge for her to get recs!

Exactly...this is what I read on many of the forums/threads I go on but I also think that the reason they didn't make it through was because of the lack of recs?...I mean, its the only legitimate and fair reason I can think of. Why else would they be released (assuming they do have every requirement)? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't GLOs in highly ranked universities with diversity want to have international students in their sororities/frats too? I mean..it just goes on to show multiculturalism as I see it...

Also, What's MS? haha...(not an expert in Greek Life) :)

Membership selection.

I would say another reason that an International student might not be selected is if they were only studying abroad for one year.

MS = Membership selection

And, Lola, I think you're a little confused about the process. A lot of PNMs who have their recs and GPAs in order still don't get bids. It's about a lot more than who you are on paper.

At the school Sciencewoman and I are talking about, recs are not very important.

With regards to the international students rushing, I think there are several issues at play. The first and most important is that, historically (AT THIS SCHOOL), the student population is mostly white and the campus culture is VERY distinctive. PNMs and actives meet and get to know each other in a large variety of ways, from the very structured and formal "Meet the Greeks" events, through the less formal class/club setting, all the way through--probably the most important for this campus--PARTIES.

Now, I'm generalizing a bit here, but the international students (students who actually were raised in another country and came to the US specifically for school) are, for a variety of reasons, less likely to join the general social scene, and thus are less well known to active sisters.

Furthermore, as previously mentioned, the retention rate of pledged international students is not particularly high (esp considering that at this campus the retention rate for the average American new member is quite high). Again, I think a lot of this can be attributed to international students not knowing exactly what they're getting into--there's really no equivalent to sorority life, especially in the South!

With that in mind, when sorority members meet international students going through rush, especially those who they don't know well and haven't "clicked" with, they may wonder if offering her a spot will take one away from a girl who will stick out the whole process. At UT Austin, where cuts will be massive, this could be a very real concern.

As an active, these were the sorts of things I thought about when making MS decisions. A girl from China who had been on my floor freshman year went through rush sophomore year and I counseled against giving her a bid for many of the reasons I just enumerated. I felt she was sweet, but not a great fit with the chapter, and seemed clueless enough about Greek Life (even after a year!) that I doubted she would stay.

With that being said, as previously noted, my chapter did extend bids to international students, many of whom were great additions to the chapter. And to your last point, Lola, the chapters at my school were about as diverse as the school itself--international student is not the same as "not white". I think culture is a bigger player here.

So what can you do? For UT--recs! Moreover, read up on the forums here about conversations during rush! Be the best version of yourself for rush. Make sure you are well-informed about rush and Greek Life in general, and try to (naturally) let the sisters know that you do understand what you are getting yourself into.

I hope this was helpful. (Sciencewoman, does this tally with what you know/explain a bit?)

ETA: FSUZeta, I am speaking here about four-year international students (rather than study abroad students), which is I believe the category Lola falls into. Lola--do be sure your rec writers know you will be a full-time, four year student if that is indeed the case.

Ah-hah. That would make a difference.

And keep in mind that all sororities expect that your membership is for life. And they take into consideration whether a PNM is committed to that extent. If they sense you are doing it just for the experience while you are here, you'll be released pretty quickly.

Newsflash...
 

Remember to ask your male instructors too. Sorority women have husbands. You never know who is married to member of a sorority. Seriously.

Sidetrack here...
Often newmembers, or at least back in my day, were required to pay a one time building fee that went towards the house; eg. additions, etc. Wouldn't it be advantageous to have a few one year members (international students, upperclassmen etc.) where they could get increase this amount, especially is a house needs a new addition?
I may be way off here. I have always wondered about this.

...end of side track...

Most of those building fees are in the less than $300 range so one or extra don't make a lot of difference. A pledge class of 100 vs 50 would make an impact.

From what I understand, internationals are not fully aware of the ways of Greek Life and this leads them to drop out halfway. And GLOs think twice about admitting internationals because obviously, they don't want people to depledge.

Right now, I am in the process of understanding Greek Life (mainly on here haha) & I have HS senior friends moving to the US (and are going to rush this fall) and a sibling who's at college in the US (she never rushed/preferred Greek Life because of her major but she says I'd like it...& this is when I began researching it..). My question is, does the resume/application to rush include something like a statement of purpose/essay where I can explain why I am doing this? Or is it all up to rush week?

Remember, she only described the situation at her school. This may not be the case everywhere.

It's all up to recruitment week, your grades, your recs, your connections.

See those are the people you are going to need to talk to to help you get hooked up with recs. If they end up in sororities, they might be able to write you a rec depending on the sorority's rules or they can refer you to an alumna lady of their group who may do it or even be able to refer you to members of other sororities too. Even if they don't join sororities they may end up knowing a lot of members through class and other activities and may be able to refer you to them. That's how you can work your network from so far away.