From Pref Night to Bid Day: What happens?
 

I don't know how much of this is Super Top Secret, but feel free to kindly tell me if I'm not allowed to know how this process goes until after I've been initiated.

What happens between the time all of the PNM's have submitted their preference cards and the next day when they receive their bids? What I think happens is all the cards are collected and given to a team of people. They sort them first by what house each girl has listed first. At the same time, the chapters are putting together a list of girls they want to give bids to. This is where my brain goes a bunch of different ways.

• What if quota is 60 but 80 girls put ABC as their first choice?

• What about when girls don't get their first (or second) choice?

• 60 girls put down DEF as their first choice. DEF only wants 50 of those girls. I presume those 10 unwanted-by-DEF girls will get their second choice?

• And then there is poor Suicidal Suzy, who only puts down GHI but sadly GHI doesn't want to extend her a bid but JKL does...

If anyone has gone through this, or know how it goes could you please explain it to a curious PNM? I know I asked a lot of questions! Thanks a bunch :D !

1) ABC will match to the 60 women highest on their bid list. The 20 other women would be potentially matched with their second or third choice. Someone else will probably explain it better.

2) They would hopefully get their second or third choice. Occasionally, a woman is not matched, but I want to say this isn't that common, but don't quote me on that.

3) If the other 10 women have maximised their options, they will hopefully be matched to another choice.

4) This has been debated, but I believe that Suzy is available for snap bids and JKL is able to extend one. I may be wrong on this one.

You're off.
The chapters gather their list of everyone who attended preference parties, in preference order. They electronically send this list in to rush HQ. The rushees' requests (which are also in preference order) are submitted electonically. All of the lists are run through a program that figures out what quota will be for the maximum amount of placement. Then, any girls who are left unmatched will be assigned quota addition positions. So if it is determined that the most girls will be matched if quota is 40, but there are 10 girls who still don't get matched, they WILL be put into a chapter, as long as they attended every preference party to which they were invited and then put every one of those chapters on the bid card. If they put down less than the total number of options they had and they didn't get placed, then they're SOL. And this is why we tell the girls that they should think long and hard before not listing one or more of the houses to which they attended preference parties. The truth is if you are willing to play along, you'd probably be happy in any sorority on campus.

And, by the way, disregard all of the above if you are talking about Indiana which is a whole number pile of fish.

Snap bids are for chapters who don't make quota. They can contact any girl who wasn't offered a bid elsewhere. The problem is if the chapter didn't make quota, the girl who was too good to put them on their list earlier probably still won't accept them.

Or stated another way, if a girl goes through 2 rounds of rush and then drops out, she would be available for a snap bid. But this is a bad plan of action for a girl dropping out because, especially in the days of RFM (the system explained above), most chapters ARE making quota, and if they don't, they're only missing by a few.

In this system, the girls who literally get cut completely from rush, even when the total number of girls going through is 1000 or more, can likely be counted on 1 hand. 2 hands MAYBE. The vast majority of girls who don't find a home dropped out because they weren't happy with their results. Like if 100 girls didn't complete rush, 95 of them would have dropped out, not been cut.

The University of Illinois provides EXCELLENT statistics on all of this, and you can assume their numbers are comparable to other competitive schools around the country. You can find it from an online search.

That was what I thought, but second guessed myself. I was trying to go off the idea of that chapter wanting Suzy. Although unlikely, maybe ending up without a bid would make her reassess her situation and decide JKL is better than non... I'm a dreamer though.

Disclaimer: my campus was not as competitive as the SEC or any of the other big schools. In my three collegiate years, we had maybe five girls who were completely cut. Everyone else dropped. When I was a Rho Gamma, we had ten girls not match (out of over 600) and all of them chose to SIP instead of maximize their options.

Thanks...we Hoosiers already know we are the special dysfunctional snowflake...but keep rubbing it in. :cool:

Of course, we have seen time and again that not so many women are completely released in SEC recruitments as people would have you believe. Maybe in the way back things were different, but the vast majority of women that enter recruitment walk out with a bid.

And this is part of what makes me question the OMG you absolutely positively need recs to every house theory. Possibly you don't, as long as you are open to every last chapter on campus. It's not a risk I would take, limiting my options over something as trivial as recommendations, but I still think you wouldn't 100% kill your options.

To state it bluntly - don't be a snoot! Happily accept the house you get, don't expect unicorns pooping rainbows - it's just a club when it comes right down to it, be willing to work for your friendships, and make the most of your college experience, in whatever form that presents itself. You are special. But you're not THAT special.

And IndianaSigKap, you know a Hawkeye has to rub it in anywhere she can. But think of it this way, at least you're not from Ohio State! ;)

I swear, it's 2013 and I still think everything is done by hand. :P

Could it be possible for a PNM to only attend two (or, heaven forbid, one) parties that day? Would she still be guaranteed a bid if she listed those two on the card? She technically maximized her options in this case.

It is definitely possible for a PNM to be invited back to one or two chapters. Invite instead of attend because a PNM SHOULD ALWAYS ATTEND every party they are invited to.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed bid.

Maximizing options includes those who had fewer options than those available. So yes, if a PNM only went to one chapter, they could only write one chapter and would be considered maximizing their options. This is the best way for a PNM to walk out of recruitment with a bid as she is not closing herself off of any opportunities she may have to receiving a bid.

In the days of hand bid matching, the bid cards are put in alpha order and read thru by a committee. The woman is matched to her first choice if possible. if she is not on the first bid list of that group, her card is turned over and they go to the next one. As each group matches to a PNM, the person working that group's list moves down a name so that the total number of their matches and available PNMs always equals quota. And so it goes on thru the entire pack of bid cards. And then over and over until all are matched or there is no way to match the remaining cards. Thre is a system for gridlock should it occur. Anyone who has access to the NPC MOI (Green Book) can look it up in there under Bid Matching. The computer programs now do this but they mirror this system.

And just do it much faster. ;)

I will preface this by saying that I went through Rush in the SEC in the 90s, so standard disclaimers apply:

A point I would make is that if you attend a Pref party, you are on the bid list for that sorority. You may be #1 or #201. You position on that list depends on a lot of different variables, many of which I don't understand myself, even after three years of being on "that side" of the process.

What I can tell you is, after the last guest leaves the last party, we whoop and cheer, kick off our heels, help ourselves to the leftover goodies from the kitchen and relax for a few minutes.

Then, the people who craft the bid list go off and do that, and the rest of us change into comfortable clothes and get to work.

We're busy putting together bid baskets, taking down the Pref Party set up, making banners, nametags, cleaning up the house, returning rental items, etc.

We might also get our first meal of the week that isn't mostly breath mints.

Obviously, someone has to go into the basement and start feeding the unicorns cotton candy so they'll be pooping rainbows on Bid Day.

There's a lot that goes into it. My advice is that you attend the parties, trust your gut, and don't worry too much about the one-off scenarios.

Also - LOL at "Suicidal Suzy".

And without all the snippy comments....

^^^ This is awesome . . . and at Ole Miss, those over 21 who don't have to vote because it's computerized, head out to The Square (after chores are done naturally.) Some non-computerized chapters get stuck voting, but that's completely hearsay.

You need to get a bid before you get initiated.

So remind me...

If a PNM goes through every round, attends every party she can, receives only one Pref invite, attends, and puts that group on her bid list...

Is there any way under RFM that she doesn't get a bid to that pref chapter?

If it's discovered that she does not meet the sorority's requirements re grades or character.

The important part of your post is bolded.

Yes, things can and do happen.... nothing is 100% guaranteed.

ETA: ^^^ What 33 said..... :)

This is something I don't quite understand. In the old system, did Annie Aardvark have a better chance of getting a bid to XYZ if they had all the PNMs who attended their preference rank them as number one than Zoe Zipper? Because XYZ would have reached quota way before they got to the letter Z?

It didn't matter if the PNMs were in alpha order. Chapters had a 1st bid list & a second bid list. It mattered where Penny PNM was listed on which bid list. If Penny PNM listed XYZ 1st on her bid card and she was anywhere on their 1st bid list, she was matched with XYZ.

After XYZ's first bid list matched to quota, then they didn't go to their 2nd bid list. If they still had spaces available, it got a little more complicated... which I leave to someone else! Alphabetical order still didn't matter, though.

Actually, it depends. For instance, if quota is 10 and all 10 of those women plus one more lists XYZ first (and those are the ONLY women listing them as #1), then the 11th one from an alpha standpoint will lose out....but could be a QA under RFM. Under the old method, that would remain to be seen on the way everything else fleshed out. Just one of many reasons why RFM is better...it takes these things into account.

But as well know, bid lists and rankings don't go that way normally. This would be an odd situation. However, if everyone who attended XYZs pref put them first, the folks on the 2nd list would stand a statistically smaller chance of being matched to them.

Hope all that makes sense. It does in my head! I actually worked a hand bid matching where a group closed out their first bid list in toto before we had gone all the way thru the cards the first time. Only time I've ever seen it happen. Think they weren't targeting their audience?!?!

I once participated in a hand-matching session where the acknowledged top dogs on campus actually had 6 girls on their first bid list who put them second. The "top dogs" had a fit right there in the room and claimed that something illegal must have happened.

Months later, they were still mourning the loss of those 6. "I swear, I would put my own pin on 'Jane Doe' if she could still pledge us." (The girl had been initiated into another group months earlier and I still remember her real name because the top dogs would NOT shut up about her.)

Those darn Aardvark's think they are so special and can be at the top of everyone's list.

^^^That's an awesome story!

OMG! Give it up, ladies!

In the one I mentioned, the group who pledged all their first list graciously offered to take all the ones who were "left over" after the matching was done since they all had put them first. We demurred and said that we stand by the NPC QA requirement - 5% of quota only as QAs. That ended up leaving one girl not matching when out of the blue, group #3 (whom she had put second and who was not on their original bid list at all) suddenly "found" her on their list! Strange things happened in hand bid matching sessions.

I have to say, I'm glad we are no longer in the era of hand matching. God bless technology.
I guess it wouldn't be bad for a small number, but for those schools that have 1000 or more PNM's, hand matching would SUCK!

To clarify about the "not guaranteed" you should understand that the girls who attend a preference party but are dropped are so minimal as to be zero. Yes, it CAN happen (the girl is a huge bitch at the preference party, it comes out and is verified that she is a serial killer), but very much not likely. As far as you need to be concerned, if you attend every party to which you are invited (even if it's only 1) you WILL have a bid on bid day.

People here want to be completely accurate and the rule is no sorority has to take a member they don't want (except at 1 school to go unmentioned), but the reality is you seriously have to torpedo your own rush to have that happen if you made it all the way to preference. The chapters will have voted for you 3 times before preference. All the last night is for, really, is to 1-close the sale and 2-put the list in order (which is done by a very small group of women). So relax, have fun and be happy with whatever you get come bid day. You will be better off in the long run.

^^^Like this story!

Maybe I’m misreading this, but if 11 women ranked XYZ first and quota is 10, wouldn’t only 10 women be listed - in alpha order - on XYZ’s first bid list? And as such, the woman who did not make XYZ’s first bid list (i.e. the 11th woman) would be ranked on their second bid list.

So if this is true, then it shouldn’t matter where she fell alphabetically as she was never on XYZ’s first bid list and XYZ met quota before it had to move to the second bid list.

Yes but I was answering the question before from someone else. They felt she would suffer from her name beginning simply with Z but she'd also suffer under the old system as she'd be put aside and maybe matched to her second choice before she made it as a QA whereas now she's more likely to be a QA as it's not limited to 5% of quota any more.


Does that make more sense?

This is how I understood it.

I understand it in my head but may not be explaining it well.

I think the alphabetical order may be misleading.

Presumably, the sororities have an idea, even if it's just an educated guess, as to what quota will be. They'll put the most effort into the order of that estimated number plus a cushion. Because they don't want a girl they would just die without to be their #11 who slips through the cracks any more than that girl does. Based on what I remember, alpha had little to do with any position on the list.

For example, Laura Legacy will probably trump Amy Aardvark.

I *think* it's easiest to understand in terms of alphabetical order for logistics; what sort of chaos would ensue if there was no systematic method to manage all those names? Let's see... throw all the names into a hat, pull out a name at a time, shout it out, and see who has the PNM listed and where? Oh that would be a LOT of fun.

Alphabetically speaking: Amy Aardvark might be first in the PNM list, but her first choice (ZZ) may have her as number 40 on their second list; and Amy's second choice (CC) might have her as number 23 on their first list. So Amy goes to CC and not ZZ, right?

Laura Legacy might or might not trump Amy, depending on each GLO's legacy policy. Just sayin'... and I don't want to get any further into details. Or I might get thrown into the Violet Volcano.

Used to when it was done by hand, the first bid list (# of quota) was in alpha order. Now, with the advent of the computer, the first list doesn't have to be in alpha order even with hand bid matching - even though I think it's easier to do in alpha order. The second list is in order of preference and always has been. And it's easier to keep the cards in alpha order as you've been doing that all along with the first bid list and some groups may still be on their first list and some on their second. I tried to copy and paste from the MOI but it's about 3 pages long and just didn't work well. But suffice it to say, the women are matched to the chapter's list.

Depends on quota and how many of ZZ's top choices chose them. If quota is 39, but one of the women on ZZ's first list matches elsewhere, Amy moves onto their first list. Her choice (ZZ over CC) trumps the fact that CC wants her more than ZZ does.

I think discussion of how it was back in the old days just muddies the water over how it happens now. Suffice it to say there was much hand-wringing, clutching at pearls and hijinks going on that now can't happen. I think a lot of the negative chatter about a struggling chapter goes away because there's really no one except the RFM expert who might now that ABC chapter didn't get a single person from their first list, or whatever. It's more clinical and less open to gossip. Not that there is NOT gossip, but I'd bet that more than a little of it is rumor and not fact.

So if I have this straight... let's say, to keep things simple, that quota is 10. Then ABC would have 10 girls on their first bid list, in whatever order they desired. I'll do alphabetical, since that's what everyone is discussing:

Amber
Brenda
Cassie
Danielle
Emily
Felicia
Grace
Haley
Irene
Jackie

Assuming that they all listed ABC as their #1 choice, then they would all receive bids to ABC. The end. If, on the other hand, Cassie, Felicia, and Jackie all matched with DEF, then there would be 3 spots left, which would require a jump to ABC's second bid list.. which would be in the order that ABC preferred to bid them. So if the first 5 people on the list were:

1 Stephanie
2 Tanya
3 Alyssa
4 Melissa
5 Laura

.. and Stephanie matched to ABC, she would make new member #8. If Tanya matched with DEF, then they would move on to Alyssa, and so on and so forth until they reached 10 new members.

So the order of PNMs is irrelevant for the first bid list, but it's clearly important for all of the bid lists after that.

Correct?

Correct!!