Weeding out chapters
 

I started thinking about this when I was posting to another thread.....

Have any of you members of a National GLO ever experienced a time when it seemed like your organization was shutting down a lot of chapters at once?

I'm kind of noticing that in my org....and it seems to have come at a time when we're colonizing a lot of places. So maybe that's why..

I saw your other thread and agree with what you said - when nationals close a chapter; it is hush hush. So, I can't really remember when a lot of chapters closed all at once because no one talks about it. I know we've had this discussion before- it seems when the numbers get low in a chapter- it closes. I'd rather see nationals come in and try to rebuild with $ and alum participation than just close the chapter. I'd also like to see our group expand to different parts of the U.S. - not just the Midwest and South.

I have not really noticed a major difference in losing chapters in Betas Broad Domain. It seems as though Beta either shuts down or loses about 5 chapters per year, but colonizes at least that to make up the difference.

From what I notice, Beta has been recolonizing at schools where we were at in the past, rather than just jumping from school to school to find interest groups. (EX., we just recolonized at William and Mary 125 years after it was shut down. Cool thing about it, is that the original 10 or so founders were the only people ever to be initiated there, and the new re-founding fathers got to sign the same roll book, starting with roll 12 or something. The original book has the original founders signatures. How cool would that be?)

Overall, I think that General Fraternities/National Offices are standing for a lot less bullshit than they did in the 60's, 70's and 80's. That way the greek system is better and hopefully will lose its bad reputation.

Hello!

Sometimes I don't think one has to do with the other even though it may appear on the surface to be that way. Often chapters that are closed are due to an unexpected standards issue (risk management, hazing, alcohol etc) or due to the fact that the chapter had been weak for an extended period of time (and often that has to do with a chapters size in relation to other groups on campus).

It never seems fair when a national group closes a chapter, however often times that national has done everything in its power to save the chapter. Sometimes issues are too large for even the best national to resolve on that particular campus, during that period of time.

As far as colonizations, I expect this trend to continue based on the "baby boomlet" and that quota is going up on many campuses. Also during the late 80's and early 90's there was not much expansion. We are seeing a boom now and probably for the next few years.

Just from what I have seen, it seems that some Panhel organizations are more likely to just pull a charter when a chapter runs onto hard times while others are more likely to send in the "big guns" to get things rolling again.

I know I've mentioned this before, but three orgs who seem to do the latter (at least as far as I have seen) are Sigma Sigma Sigma, Tri-Delta and Theta. In the past 10 years or so (not all at the same time), all three organizations at my school were dangerously low in numbers and on the verge of folding. Instead of letting that happen, their nationals either recolonized or sent officers in to help with recruitment.

I personally think that each chapter of a sorority is important and Nationals should always do anything they can to help out. If a chapter is in danger (and I am talking about things like numbers, not hazing and things like that), every effort should be made to save it. Afterall, they are sisters just as much as the members of a 200+ chapter are.

The same happened to Delta Gamma on my campus. They were very close to getting their charter pulled the year I came through recruitment. They had lost their house as well (AZD ended up buying it). They didn't participate in formal recruitment during Fall Rush '99. Instead, they did informal recruitment a month later. Their nationals really helped them out. I'm almost positive that they had sisters from nearby chapters (USF, UF) come and help with recruitment. They worked very hard to get girls. There were DeeGee signs everywhere on campus, other sororities helped, and they called girls who were not in a sorority asking them to come out to their parties (I know this because my roommate received a call). They have since greatly improved their numbers and were close to making quota the past two years during recruitment.

Well said, Tracy!

Is what you're saying is that as your group closes old chapters, it is opening new ones? I would say the two probably aren't related. A lot of Nationals will close chapters, not due to low numbers, but due to hazing, risk management issues, and the like. Most nationals will go in and work with chapters who need recruitment and membership help before they close the chapter. After all, all chapters are an integral part of the revenue chain of the sorority.

I suspect that whether a chapter is closed or Nationals "sends in the big guns," to save it depends on the reason it is struggling and how likely it is to be saved. It's not smart to throw a lot of money at a chapter with repeated standards violations, etc.

Delt tends to colonize or recolonize about three or four chapters a year. Our traveling Chapter Consultants are key in this process, and that seems to be the number they can handle without depleting the attention they can give to the rest of their duties.

Preference can be given to former chapters where the Fraternity has a relationship with the university administration, although there are other factors which can easily overcome that situation, including a strong interest group and strong area alumni support.

By the way, there's nothing particularly "hush hush" about our chapter closings. At Karnea (the every two year international conference) a couple years ago, in the opening ceremony, the Consultants were asked to remove the banners of all of the chapters closed since the last Karnea. There were eleven of them. That was sobering -- no pun intended. All of those were for alcohol or hazing violations. For the rest of the conference, those gaping spaces between banners were a stark reminder of how much we had lost. We've been a little luckier since then, hopefully because demonstrations like that one send a wake up call to the other chapters.

One final observation which is not at all scientific. It appears to me that most of our colonization (where we haven't had a chapter in place in the past) is being done at smaller colleges with higher academic and social standards as opposed to the larger schools. I wonder if that isn't a wave of the future.

I hadn't thought of that, DeltAlum, but it seems true! Didn't y'all just colonize at Belmont Abbey? (I think I heard that from a Delt friend of mine who went up there for the colonization.) I'd definitely say that college fits those criteria... Interesting point.

Brown Eyed Girl,

First, I love that song. It reminds me so much of my years in college because a lot of the verses match stuff around the campus. And there was this Brown Eyed Girl named Sandi...

But that's another story.

Yes, we have colonized at Belmont Abbey. We recently chartered a colony at Chapman University in California. We're also colonizing or recolonizing at Virginia Tech, Penn and KSU among others at the moment. I think we also have older colonizations going at Whittier and Cal Irvine, but I'm not sure about that. I'm also pretty sure we're going to try to recolonize UCLA and/or USC.

Which would seem to back up my comment about recolonizing bigger schools and new colonies at smaller colleges.

It's almost always easier to colonize on a smaller campus. I think of the efforts of strong nationals to come in on large Southern campuses as say, the 15th sorority...so many have failed, even if there were clearly enough women who wanted to fill a new chapter.

It's the name recognition thing, I think. We've been discussing how LSU needs more sororities but I don't blame the sororities not on campus for saying, "Not me, buddy!" At large Southern universities, so many PNMs say that they will pledge (Name 4 sororities) or nothing. Why shell out thousands , probably in vain, trying to change that mindset? Heaven knows, Panhellenic can't even do it.

My take on this topic...
 

All our organizations need to keep growing, and not stay stagnant. Ever forward, as Tri-Sigma says. But you also have to know your limitations. (as Clint Eastwood says) What good does it do to crow about the fact that you opened three new chapters, if you had to close 4 old ones (and upset alums) because all your resources were going to help the new groups? If you try to do too much, you'll be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

This next statement excludes groups who have lots of chapters at schools where the admin just has a bug up their butt about the "classist, elitist" Greeks. If a GLO is closing large amounts of chapters on a REGULAR basis I think it's a sign that something is wrong in that GLO on a larger level. Somehow, the ideals on which the GLO was founded are not filtering down to the collegiate level. Whether it's careless membership selection (which often leads to RM issues), communication difficulties or colonizing pell-mell at schools that can't support GLO's, it has be laid on the table and fixed before things get worse. And expanding while you are going through that kind of thing can be disaster. It's like having a baby to try and save a troubled marriage. The marriage gets worse, if anything, because not only do you have the problems you started with, but you have this little human who demands all your attention. And that makes it very hard to get to the root of the things that were wrong with the marriage to begin with.

If a chapter is in trouble, don't give up...pull out all the stops (especially regarding alumnae and inter-chapter involvement) before breaking a lot of hearts and closing it. These aren't just names on a roster, these are your brothers or sisters. Aren't they?

gawd. if only some members of international and national headquarters actually read what we're typing here. and by that i mean ALL chapters not just a couple. i sometimes wonder if the people in charge forget why we/they are actually here.

marissa

About Nationals "pulling out all the stops".....I think it's wonderful what KillarneyRose pointed out about the 3 sororities that really help out their struggling chapters. When my chapter was struggling to stay open b/c of numbers (we're still on shakey ground, mind you), we begged and pleaded for a National officer. We were told "Sorry, you are not upholding your end of the bargain. Having a National officer in is a GIFT."

This is bullshit imho! They go to the successful chapters...what do the visiting officers do, pat them on the head and tell them how great they are??!! It makes no sense for the thriving chapters to get national officers in every semester, but a chapter who needs help can't get it?!

*taking a deep breath* Ok, I'm finished now.*:)

As usual, I find my self admiring 33Girl's idealism (I always think she should have been with us in the 60's), but in just a slight disagreement.

To my way of thinking there IS an overall problem with Nationals who are losing chapters -- and for many of the reasons 33 identifies. However, I think that a larger reason for that national malaise (geez, I wonder if that spelling is even close -- let's say sickness) is that our stately old organizations have allowed the problems to grow and fester without taking the tough action of closing some of the storied old chapters that have become dead wood. I know it was true of Delt for years.

Now that we're taking a more proactive approach to cleaning up chapters, our number of charters is down somewhat, but our number of undergraduate members is up! Less chapters but more members is not necessarily a bad thing.

I think that by being more selective and colonizing smaller schools with higher academic standards, we're finding men of higher quality, intelligence and moral values. And that, I think, will serve us well over the long haul.

As for the alumni of the closed chapters, some will be bitterly dissapointed, but most will understand that, like a cancer, those groups who can't seem to bring themselves to obey the law and fraternity rules are a huge problem to the overall health of the fraternity and must be excized -- cut away. I can tell you for certain that the loudest voices for NOT recolonizing some of our biggest and oldest chapters are the alumni who have been burned and spurned by their chapters closing/failing over and over again.

It could be argued that the selection of new members in those recolonizations brought in the wrong people. I think it's more likely, though, that the "bad apples" came six or eight pledge classes after recolonization -- after the recolonizers and their higher ideals have moved on.

I would be interested in knowing whether any of the large fraternities -- say Delta Tau Delta's size and up (we have about 120 chapters and colonies at this point) are growing number of chapter-wise.

I hate to admit it, but I'm beginning to think that my older and wiser alumni brothers who have advocated this movement into smaller schools may be right.

Finally, while losing your chapter can be traumatic to the undergraduate brothers, for the most part they aren't expelled from the Fraternity, but may be put on immediate alumni status. And, of course, sometimes that core group of good Delts becomes the nucleous of recolonizations.

These decisions are very hard -- but have to be made for the greater good of the order.

When I was in school in the early/mid 90's there were 2 sororities on campus that were struggling. Their reputation around campus was pretty bad, their numbers very low. One of the chapters had another chapter come in to help out during rush-this did not work. Then they attempted to re-colonize a year after they had their present members go alum-this did not work. Unfortunately, what they needed to do was close down for 4-5 years or permanantely. Maybe it depends on the school you go to but once you have a bad rep/very low numbers (I am talking a chapter of 30-40 members when house total is at 140) at A&M all the alum support in the world will not help (though it may be different now). It was better to close and re-colonize later or just close permanately. The other chapter I mentioned also closed as they could not increase numbers either in spite of much effort.

Yes, I was going to say that too but didn't want to make my novel longer and didn't know quite how to say it. You hit it on the head. Just because you have been at Good Ole Boy U since Washington crossed the Delaware or had homecoming queen for 60 years running, doesn't mean your chapter couldn't use a kick in the ass. And it's the smaller, less prestigious chapters that often pay the price.

And NEVER pass up the opportunity to use the word "malaise." (That was a Jimmy Carter-ism, wasn't it?)

I know that Phi Sigma Sigma will do ANYTHING within their power to not close a chapter, we were told that by out national personell. Which is great, so if a chapter needed help, C.O. is there to help a.s.a.p.! Which is one of the wonderful reasons that I would LOVE to become a national officer... their jobs are awesome!

We also have been opening chapters at schools that previously had them, we just opened Pi at Syracuse again! Their chapter is awesome!

Well... Greek Love-
Alison

can't seem to get quote + message on one, so at any rate, to
comment on Beta message.

Beta Theta Pi is a classy outfit, not a big one, but a good one. I
find most fraternities, at least the biggies, have indeed shucked
a lot of chapters, especially in the NE where they march to their
own drummers and where we shoulda never gone to begin with. With 40 years on TKE expansion/extension, I find that at
least 75% of new charters issued are reactivations, i.e. orphan
alumni want their old chapters returned. Besides, fewer new schools opening, and many of them are not suited for Greeks.
Even Harvard has come around saying they have tried everything and the Greeks seem to be the best system.
Perphaps the Ivies and the four-eyed cretins at Berkeley and U of Chicago will come around. A reactivated chapter is a labor of
love, and Beta, power to you! Erik P Conard, TKE

It is getting late and I have reread this post 6 times and want to really be sharp when I post my true feelings on this post!

We all have a lot to learn from this thread and could all learn many things! 2 I hope it grows to something fruitful for us all!

You grow or you wither and die!:(

E C let me know what you think!:D

runnin' in circles aren't we?
 

First, though, while I thought it was only TKE chapters who consistently said "Nationals." What is "Nationals" Why the plural...it used to be common to say "National" no 's'. But then
we marched into Canada and this was a slap in the face to our
Canadian brothers. What is wrong with "Central Office," or simply "Headquarters," or finally, "International?"
Second, it is not a sin to be a small chapter but it is a sin to remain one. You can love 80 brothers as well as 20 and you
can pay your bills, too. And buy toys, and have a comfortable
house or quarters.
Listen up to what the alums may be saying...
Sororities have pretty much always liked to have rules, standards committees, etc. Of late chapters have gone over the
120 mark some places. Some at Colorado U have over 50% of
their girls on inactive status and still have over a hundred. When
the organization pulls a charter of 60 girls, then something is wrong. And, yes, some would rather die than join ____, but go
a couple of hundred miles away and you find that ____ is a top
group.
Third, small campuses do not NECESSARILY make the greatest places to charter. Look at Tarkio, Milton, Alliance, Parsons, etc....all had NIC fraternities....schools closed.
Finally, don't get too excited about Belmont Abbey, Delts. You have merely replaced a TKE chapter which used to be there.
If you have free enterprise, open rush, ban quotas, then you will
thrive. The more rules, the more dead chapters. Orphaned alumni are no good to any of us
Finally, if you are so hell-bent saying you have brotherhood, that
you are so damned selective...GREAT...'cause soon you will be
the largest on campus as everyone will want to join you....
Happy new year. Erik Conard, Denver, CO TKE '60

Erik,

Delt does use the term Central Office, but many chapters still use the term Nationals (although the Fraternity officially discourages it). I don't know where or how long ago it started or why the "s" on the end. It just is.

As for Belmont Abbey, I hope our new colony thrives there, but I don't think any organization "replaces" any other one in this context. What we have is an interest group and apparantely enough local alumni support to launch a new colony.

My only point is that we seem to be having good luck at smaller schools.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum
Your Mile High Neighbor
Aurora

We had always been one of the smaller chapters on campus where total is 85 and we had 45 to 50 members. About four years ago, my chapter's numbers became dangerously low. I had been an alumna for a while at this point so I didn't know about this problem until it had been resolved. There were about a dozen active sisters, and they wound up with almost fifty pledges! I'm not exactly sure how they did it, but they have been thriving ever since. :D

I have waited and reread this thread many times!!!

I cry each time any chapter of any Greek Organization is closed!



I almost lost mine and am fighting like hell to keep it alive! Alums can have a lot to do with the lively hood of the chapter!
As DeltaAlum keeps reminidng us some get taken off campus becaus of stupidity on the part of a few but We all suffer.

While LXA has one of the best systems of National Paid Advisors, some are good and some are not, I have friends who volanteer with their respective Organizations who are no less dedicated to the cause of the Fraternity/Sorority.

We had a National HDQ. Officer who wanted to get rid of small school chapters, he is gone!
Our National Magazine lists all chapters that have been closed!
GOD does it piss me off when they are closed! Several of the Brothers on GC Site feel the same way I do and will not mention names, but we are always talking to National in one form or another!

People We are our respective Orgs and have a say!

Lenoxxx, life, corbin dallas and a few of us LXA are of the sme mind!

This goes for zntke,econard,kabilly,KaRC, SX Card, ex,and all of the ones that I cannot remeber.

Weel, as I have seen on site, I just put my 2 pence in! ( EURO)!

Have a safe New Year and you can call me New Years Day as Will be working at my shop till @ 1:00-2:00 .

I still think convention in KC for GCers!!!!!!!!!!:D

OH Phone # is:
913-334-4567

Gawd would that be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D :D

Hate to say it ,but luv youse all!

I have often heard PKA's boast that their organization has the largest average chapter size. I think this is a very interesting statement. Wouldn't it depend on at which schools they had chapters? For example, if you were only at Big 10 schools, of course all your chapters would be big.

Thanks for the kind words. My fiances Grandfather was a TKE at your Alpha Chapter in Illinois. We visited them over the holidays, and I got a kick out of seeing his paddle from 1952. They went on to tell us how he had to wear his girlfriends (now wife of 40 some years) underwear during their "Hell Week"....he still calls it that. Anyway, what a trip down memory lane for them to be able to talk greek with their grandchildren. By the way, Grandma is a AGD at the same school. IL Weslyan I think?

The beta has good taste....
 

Glad you got to go to fiance's grandpa's chapter. The Alpha chapter of TKE was in early days attempting to revive the chapter
of the Illinois Epsilon chapter of Phi Delta Theta. Three times declined, they struck out on their own. I have been fortunate to
have met two of the five TKE founders. Fraternity history is dear
to all of us, and if you don't know yours, do....you will be richer for
it. The fraternity movement is still the greatest youth movement
ever. The unpolished pearl...the uncut diamond...we welcome.
So, with that, happy new years...and strive to be among the best
on your campus! You will carry that the rest of your life...
Erik P Conard, Kansas State Teachers College, Emporia '60

Yeah, I agree, just like any other statistic you have to look behind it. The 50's & 60's oldies station here used to have the slogan "we play more songs per hour than any other station." Well of COURSE you do - none of the songs are longer than 2.5 minutes long! :D (as opposed to some of the 7-minute classic rock tunes)

Moxie,

Although I see the need for more on the spot support from a national organization standpoint, there are some situations where nothing more will help. I am not familiar with your chapter and/or its issues but this is how I look at it:

No matter if national officers come down or you receive minute to minute support, it is the caliber of the chapter members that decides the direction of the chapter, not the national organization.

Membership is one of the most important issues a chapter faces, that's why recruitment is so stressful but rewarding! If you have a chapter not willing to work, then no national organization's support will help in any way. The national organization cannot be there from morning til night to make sure each member performs her duties and executes every possible responsibility of chapter life to the best of her ability.

I have had a blessed KD life and have benifited from working with many national officers, but those women have only given me the desire to be better, not constant know how...they make me want to be a better member the will to work at it, daily, comes from within.

It sounds to me that this is not the first problem you have had, maybe a chapter business meeting/motivational speaker could be a big help. Give the chapter members time to voice thier feelings regarding what is working and what needs help? I am sure your CPP can help somehow! If you can ask PH, I am sure other chapters have had the same issues and will be able to speak from their own experiences. What about chapters in your state?

Your organization gives you the plan for success, it's what you do with those plans that count!

AOT

YEAH! go alpha gam. i always love hearing 'bout women who are alpha gams from quite awhile back.

marissa

Erik,
That is really a good point what you said about "Nationals"- I have no idea why we call it that or why we add an "s" to it. I tried saying it without the "s" and it sounds too strange!

I worked for Tri Delta this past year and while there they closed 3 chapters in 5 months and are planning on closing at least 2 more this year.

But for what reasons? If they're closing chapters for hazing and risk management, that's really sometimes necessary. Have they opened new chapters at all?

How can you be a tri sigma and work for tri delta?

First off Cream...every time I see your screen name the Prince song of the same name pops into my head, hee hee :D

Being in one org and working for another org's HQ is quite common actually...we've had a Pi Phi and an AXO work at ours.

4 eyed cretin eh?
 

Just wanted to respond to your comment on UChicago. First of all, we're very much different from the ivies and berkeley. And the image you have of a four eyed cretin, isn't correct. Kids here love learning but they are not cretins...in fact it's widely believed on campus that the admissions committee has an agenda to bring in the "cool" smart kids now. I think it's true...there are definitely more social people in each new class. However there is also a problem with the fraternities here. How is it possible to have large chapters when the school has such a small population? Also the deans and administrators are all VERY anti greek. Supposedly when we recolonized our campus, we were supposed to appeal to a wider amount of students -however it is almost impossible. There is no IFC here. The low student population limits the chapter sizes. The administrators keep a tight watch on the greeks hoping to make sure they never throw a party or buy a house. And a lot of the athletes have their own clicks that are essentially like fraternities and sororities. Furthermore, students have other options besides the greek system. We are in a large city if you've noticed. My chapter did well in the beginning but then the national office ignored us...we're hurting really badly right now and unless someone comes in to help we will be sure to get shut down.

-Rudey

Re: 4 eyed cretin eh?
 

First, I owe you-all an apology. It was an uncalled
for smart-ass remark...that of the four-eyed cretin. I am truly sorry and it was in bad taste.
Way back in the 30s the U of Chicago had a pretty strong greek
stystem. Then Dr. Robert Maynard Hutchins came in, initiated the Great Books curriculum, fired Amos Alonzo Stagg, did away
with football, changed the environment considerably. The TKE
chapter there was very scholarly, lots of Phi Betes, and folded the tent in the 30s along with many others.
The student attracted to Chicago was not what you would call the extroverted, rah-rah type. I have hopes that someday a meeting of the minds will occur and a return to the Greek system will transpire, offering a meaningful experience to all.
Unfortunately the image of the U of Chicago student is not one of the hail-fellow-well met, but does not deserve the moniker I
placed in my thoughtless e-mail. Pass the crow...please...
I wish you well, honest, I do. Erik P Conard--Denver

To Rudey...
 

You're not a Pike, are you? I thought our chapter was pretty good at UC. Let me know: I may be able to help.