Considering to Rush Again
 

Hey everyone!!! Even though I rushed during the spring and did not receive a bid, it has not stopped me to try again in the fall. My only concern is if rushing again is frowned upon. In addition, I would like to know if I made any mistake that might’ve caused me not to receive a bid and learn from them so it doesn’t happen again.

Even though I was not planning to rush in the spring because of Rugby commitments, a floor mate of mine who was rushing Pi Kappa Alpha (who got a bid) convinced me to give Greek Life a shot and rush. After attending the “Meet the Greeks” fair prior to the start of Open Rush, I decided learn more about Greek Life and attend rush events to four fraternities I felt I could fit in.

Open Rush was enjoyable because I met some extraordinary people and even made some new friends who share my same interests. To get a better feel of each chapter, I spoke to as many members as I can, introducing myself with a firm handshake, asking questions like “Why did you decide to pledge this chapter?”, “What are some of the charity and community service activities you guys do?”, chapter ideals, even praising the mottos after doing some research, and other stuff to get to know them. Some conversations lasted for 15 minutes to a point where they encouraged me to meet more members. They were supposed to last five minutes. I ended each conversation saying like “John, it was pleasure to meet you and I hope I’ll you again at Closed Rush.” A friend told me I was “socializing a storm” because I was talking with people well after Open Rush ended with all recruits returning home.

There was one problem and that same friend realized this before Closed Rush invitations were sent out. Since I did not attend many open parties because the Rugby house hosts their own events, fraternities may not be familiar with me since I know on average three members per chapter of the ones I rushed. He was right since I only got one Closed Rush invite to Delta Chi. He was even shocked that I did not get an invitation to the fraternity he got a bid in.

Closed Rush consisted an interview, free food, and extra time to meet the more chapter members. Sadly, I came down with the flu earlier that morning, but I made no excuses and attended the event. The interview was, I think, my downfall because my voice was hoarse. There was also a question that said “Who was the greatest influence in your life?” “Even though he’s a controversial figure,” I responded, “it would be Joe Paterno.” I spoke about his Success with Honor motto and how it molded into the individual I became today. Since I am terrible at lying, I figured it’ll be best to be myself. However, I knew my chances were done after that final question.

Even though I did not get a bid, I was actually a sign of relief since my workload was too heavy and the pledge process would have tumbled my GPA. Most of my friends were unhappy that I did not get a bid and one sent me a website link and told me to consider rushing again. After reading the website, I realized Greek Life is the right fit for me because of the brotherhood, leadership opportunities, social events, and legacy – different components under one roof. The legacy aspect is what inspired me to give it a second shot because alumni are the people who helped make the chapter stronger. Since one of my goals in college is to make a positive impact to the people surrounding me, I figured rushing fraternities that share my interests would be the right thing to do because of that. When I think about the legacy and honor that revolves around the fraternities, it inspires me to join one so I can build on that legacy that would inspire brothers past, present and future in a positive way.

Finally, is rushing fraternities again looked down upon? Are there any mistakes mentioned above that hurt my chances the first time so I can learn from them and not repeat them again? I know this is a long forum post, but I have a few final questions.

1. What are some aspects fraternities are looking for in new members that I have not mentioned above?
2. Are there any other questions I can ask during rush?
3. I want to get started early so I can build (and rebuild) my connections to show my interest and get to know fraternities members more before fall rush. How can I do that? Should I contact the Rush Chair or President?

tip: you only need to post your question(s) in one forum, and then wait for responses ;)

I have a question for you. Is Rugby an extracurricular or do you get a scholarship from it? If it is just a club, they might have been concerned that you don't care enough since you put the rugby events before the opportunity to meet the brothers in a more informal setting. Also, based on the questions you were asking, they may not have felt that they knew you well enough as a person, or that you cared about them as people.

I did not know about this until after I rushed, but a friend told me since the Rugby team hosts mixers with sororities and sometimes give fraternities a "run for their money" could be the reason why I did not get a bid. There are three guys on the Rugby team who are in fraternities and rushed their chapters. Rugby is a Club Sport at my school.

In addition, since I rushed at the last minute; I did not know what fraternity life is about. After learning more about the brotherhood concept after I rushed, I started to reconsider the idea of rushing again since I put my teammates first and treated them as brothers when I played football in high school. I don't like the concept of individualized success.

Make friends.

Since some of your teammates are fraternity members, you might want to speak to them about how they handled rush, the questions they asked, etc. Let them know what happened and ask for advice for going through rush in the fall. Two benefits: (1) They know you, the campus, and the fraternities on campus so they can give you better advice then we can. (2) This will also let them know that you are going through rush and they can give their chapters information on you as a person that the chapters didn't have in the last rush.

Honestly, in any interview setting, if you are going to say that a controversial person is the most influential person in your life, you have to have a follow up with how their fall or disgrace has effected you or what you have learned from it. Otherwise, you just look like a weirdo who can't accept that their hero has done wrong.

I'm not in a fraternity, and this is purely speculative, but you sound like you were coming across as trying too hard and sounded like a buffoon. Could have been nerves, but citing their motto and claiming a recently controversial figure as your hero screams "awkward." Greeks are looking for people who fit in and who they feel comfortable around. Your post reeks of awkward. Find out from Greek men on your campus if rerushing is advisable, and work on your relationships with those men and other fraternity men so they can pull for you in their chapters. Good luck.

Be yourself, but the version of yourself that can carry a normal conversation without causing controversy. If Hitler is your hero, pick an alternate hero like your dad, Gandhi, Steve Jobs, Nelson Mandela-- someone that won't cause people to pause. They are asking you that question, not because they want to know your actual hero, but because they want to gauge your morals and character. Do you really think the average person thinks Joe Paterno is a hero? Think of a hero the average person would admire.

Recruitment is an interview. Treat it like one.

And breathe.

Yeah, unless you are a legacy of a former national president or something (i.e. have been steeped in fraternity lore since you were a zygote) I can't imagine any fraternity rushee talking about how much he loved the motto and making a big hit. There are fraternities where the guys are more into their ritual, history etc than others, but that doesn't mean a rushee spouting it is a good idea. It makes you look stalkery.

Same with the Joe Paterno comment. Unless you have previous deep ties to Penn State, citing his motto makes you sound weird (and would have even before the scandal broke).

Agreed. You didn't give his name to an answer to the question "name someone who inspires you", but rather, “Who was the greatest influence in your life?”

I'm really curious as to how Joe Paterno had the greatest influence in your life above anyone else in the world. No parents, relatives, friends, teachers or coaches?

"I spoke about his Success with Honor motto and how it molded into the individual I became today."

How, exactly?? This alone might be a huge factor, and given that you claimed him as the greatest influence on your life, no amount of re-rushing is going to erase that. If, as you said, you "can't lie" and answered this question truthfully, I'd be pretty sure that your answer turned them off to you, quite possibly for good. I could be wrong, but after thinking about it more, I'm not sure how one recovers from something like that.

Ree-xi, I think he only said the Joe Paterno answer at one fraternity (the one he went to for closed rush), so all may not be lost. But it probably is there.

I think the correct answer to "Who was the greatest influence" is always "my mom/dad/parents."

It's totally fine to rush fraternities again. From your experience it seems like you were very busy during recruitment and had some trouble getting yourself out there and didn't have the opportunity to make a huge impression on the fraternities.

1. From my perspective as a club sport athlete:
My club sport was relatively well known on campus as a social group, lots of parties and typically the time commitment made it a problem for those who rushed. Even though some of the athletes were able to rush fraternities/sororities, some had to take a semester off of the sport for pledging or they had to choose between the sport and their Greek Life.

Since I was on the team at the same time as rushing, I experienced some disadvantages during my rush--some of the sororities may have thought I wouldn't be able to dedicate the time to pledging, and there also were some sororities that people from my team gravitated toward, so it reduced some of my options, just because people just assumed I'd rush the "xx club sport sorority" with my friends.

2. It seems some of your conversations were really meaningful (it's great to ask about philanthropy events and why they chose to join their particular fraternity), but I know that meeting more members and leaving a good impact on more people can be way more beneficial than having fewer, deeper conversations. Fraternities at my school pretty much expect guys to get to know the entire chapter, so since you're planning on re-rushing, I would definitely recommend meeting as many people as you can in the Greek community!

3. Even though you answered the 'greatest influence' question honestly, and I'm not encouraging lying during rush by any means, I think that is a source of conflict in a conversation. You can still be yourself while being polite and non-controversial... for example, you would never meet someone new and begin talking about political affiliations, religion, etc.; so in a rush situation keep that in mind. If you are asked a question that brings up an iffy subject (I was asked about religion during my rush), you can answer honestly and then try to steer the convo elsewhere.

4. You are clearly interested in fraternity life for many good reasons and you seem to have good intentions about impacting the Greek community. However, rush is not an interview, and treating it as one can come off as being a try-hard. You can certainly talk about leadership and brotherhood and stuff while rushing, but if you get "too" deep, it might overwhelm the brothers. Ultimately, they just want to give bids to guys who they think will fit in well and are likable and fun to be around :)

5. You mentioned your friends being disappointed when you didn't end up receiving a bid, so those would be the best contacts you have! Connect with them and see if they can introduce you to their brothers, take you to social events; that way when you re-rush, the guys will remember you and be excited to see you at recruitment.

I wish you all the best!

I disagree with those saying that rush is not an interview. It is an interview. But an interview is not an interrogation. It's a conversation. Many people regard interviewing as having to be stuffy and boorish. The best interviews are where you develop a rapport with your interviewer, and you're prepared with natural sounding and relevant answers to their questions, as well as good questions of your own. This is true whether you are interviewing for a spot in a program (e.g., college, a fraternity, a community organization), a roommate for a house, or a job. The idea is to see if you click. Act natural and avoid controversial topics. It's one big exercise in each party telling the other about themselves, the same as you would do in any situation where you meet someone new.

That's great you have some friends and teammates already in fraternities. As Sweetongreek said, those are your best contacts. While the one you spoke of might be a ship that's already sailed, it sounds like there are other options on your campus. Draw from what you learned, take the advice you've been given and start fresh in the fall. Hope it all works out for you!

When the question was asked, my first reaction was "oh no" because Paterno was now a controversial figure. Although I don't attend the university, I come from a community full of Penn State football fans and I learned many life lessons from the late coach. His quotes taught me the importance of confidence, studying hard to my full potential, and working together as a team. My parents, friends, and teachers all helped me influence my life in someway, but Paterno's influence connected all cylinders together. Although I feel betrayed after the scandal, I still credit him for bringing me where I am at today.

This may also seem strange...but the main motive of me rushing again is because of the death of my close friend back home during Spring Break and was unable to attend his funeral since I had to get back to school that day. Reflecting on his life and how he was a second brother to me and my football teammates made me miss the brotherhood developed during the rough times we faced. He also left a lasting legacy to the school because he treated everyone like a brother/sister. Because he taught me the importance of brotherhood, I want to do something to continue his legacy. The Rugby team doesn't have that brotherhood while many fraternities do on my campus.

This is a way better answer than Joe Paterno. (Although it's kind of depressing that you have to be told that.)

And leave out the part about skipping the funeral.

Why is that?

Hey -- not speaking for DeltaBetaBaby, and not judging you because I don't know the specific circumstances, but it struck me as strange that you didn't attend the funeral of someone you called a "close friend" and a "second brother." The reason you gave -- had to get back to school -- sounds weak since it is commonplace for people to rearrange plans and miss a day of school or work to attend a funeral, even for someone they wouldn't describe as a close friend. There may be a perfectly understandable and unavoidable reason for why you had to get back to school at that particular time, but without knowing why, it could make one wonder how much value you really put on the relationship with that person, or just how close you actually were. During recruitment, you can tell your story without mentioning missing the funeral. So -- don't risk being misunderstood. Just leave that part out.

I wanted to delay another day to attend the funeral, but he would've been pissed if I skipped school for any reason on his deathbed and fulfilled his wish. He even said that to classmates (who knew about his health situation) out on the West Coast. To make up for it, I spent the whole Spring Break comforting teammates who were with him on his deathbed. (My late friend stayed local and I was the only teammate who moved the farthest...275 miles). I won't mention this at all about missing the funeral but that was he said and I fulfilled his wish. The guy was brother/sister to all of us and a positive role model to the entire community. Whenever we had a problem, he was there for us. News of his death was like Magic Johnson announcing the world he had HIV.

I think they were suggesting you not mention that you had to miss your dear friends funeral because it might come off as confusing. You wrote a wonderful tribute to your friend, and then finished it off by saying that you had to get back to school, which appeared to be 180 degrees out from the things you had said about your friend. But realize that we are reading your responses, not listening to them. Written statements can easily get misconstrued.

I think if you are going to speak about your friend and the influence his life and death had on you, you might want to take the approach that you, he, and your other friends had a sort of unofficial brotherhood, how you were always there for each other and how you are hoping to find similar friendships in a fraternity. But you have to temper what you say because the topic can quickly become uncomfortable for those who did not know your friend. In fact, you might want to just share your feelings about your friends' death with people you are close to. You can let down your guard with close acquaintances and really level with them, something you cannot (or should not) do with people you have just met.

The possibility of being asked this question a second time are slim to none, so just practice a 30-second response and move on. The key in recruitment is to appear confident, approachable, and uncontroversial. Those are transferable skills once you start interviewing for jobs and working in a professional setting, so learn now!

The chances of this fraternity seeking you out a second time are probably also very small. You're that strange guy who idolizes Joe Paterno and hung around the party too long. People remember that stuff. Sure, go visit them during recruitment, but you only get one chance to make a first impression. I would argue you've made a negative one at this chapter, whereas you might have had a second shot if you simply hadn't talked to enough brothers or flew under the radar and said and did some memorable things. You put yourself on their radar, front and center. Move on and consider other fraternities on your campus. Good luck and I hope things work out next time. I think you may have some work to do on understanding social skills and basic social cues. I don't say any of this to be hurtful or unkind, but to give you something tangible to work on based on your comments here and to hopefully achieve a better outcome in the future.

Really? Sounds like you have an issue with conflating things to epic, sports proportions. Try to bring things down to a personal level. Not everything in life has to have a connection to someone famous or something important. It's okay to express your emotions and be just you and mundane. It seems more real. Using Joe Paterno instead of someone you know IRL seemed contrived as the person that had the most influence in your life just like this statement is so over the top. Was this guy even your friend or was he a popular guy on campus you want to claim? Or was it a huge blow to you that you can't express? Either way, it works much better if you drop the overblown sports metaphors and just say what you really mean.

Everyone started wearing condoms?

LOL. I was going to say they realized straight people really could get HIV.

Especially given that Magic Johnson announced he is HIV positive in 1991. If the OP is in college now, I'm guessing he has no memory of that announcement or what it was like when the announcement was made -- just what he's heard about it since then.

I do remember that announcement. While it was certainly a major news story and a shock to many people, I wouldn't put it anywhere near the same league as hearing of the death of a friend.

>>So this just happened over spring break, and two weeks later, away at college where this friend didn't even attend, there is a palpable difference in the level of brotherhood in your life?


>>I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean he was known by millions of people?

All of this aside, there is nothing stopping you from rushing another fraternity. Like others said, you might work on your communication skills. Good luck whatever happens.

Honestly, everything that you typed comes off as very awkward.

"Why did you decide to pledge this chapter?”, “What are some of the charity and community service activities you guys do?”, chapter ideals, even praising the mottos after doing some research, and other stuff to get to know them. "
Fraternity rush is not the same as sorority rush. You don't get some kind of prize for knowing about their motto or asking about their community service. The guys don't care about any of that. They just want to know if you're a cool, laidback guy and you'll fit in.
I think if they were asking you A LOT of interview-style questions such as "who is your greatest influence?" that shows they didn't feel comfortable around you, so they felt they had to revert back to textbook questions to fill up the time. Fraternity recruitment is about hanging out with the guys, and having a good time. It's like going to a party and making friends, not trying to impress with knowledge of their fraternity and interest in community service. You can rush again, but frankly I don't think you have a chance at this last fraternity you are referring to. Try to go to a couple new ones, and remember that you're trying to MAKE FRIENDS more than you're trying to impress as you would in an interview
Also, continuing with the party analogy, you never want to be the last one to leave a party. I'm sure you thought it was a good thing, and I'm sure the brothers SEEMED fine with it, but really that doesn't reflect positively on you.

At the risk of appearing crass, I don't think your excuse for not attending a friend's funeral makes any sense and you should avoid mentioning that during rush at all costs...

I agree with Ringojackson. The way that you approaced recruitment last time didn't work, so it's time to try something new. Focus on finding potential friends. Talk about sports, movies, music, TV shows, hobbies, or anything else of a similar nature. Focus on social converstion such as you might have at any college party, or one of your rugby parties.

Rush your friends' chapters and the chapters of your rugby teammates. Perhaps try some other new ones as well. Get around at any given party to meet as many members as you can. Do you know how to make people laugh? It's a valuable skill. If you can make people laugh they will remember you.

thanks for your response. rushing my teammate fraternity won't work anymore cuz their chapter got revoked. i'll keep that in mind though.

I am going to say this as a proud Penn State alumna (and I'm sure other GCers on here can attest to how much PSU pride I have)...I would not go around telling people that someone you look up to is Joe Paterno. I do love JoePa and I cried when he passed away. In fact, I was proud to meet his son when he met with my Alumni Chapter for our annual dinner. The truth is that to some people, it can be very controversial, as you noted. I love PSU and I bleed blue and white but, because I don't know everything that happened and I don't know if he shirked his duties (I truly hope not), I realize that some people could even be offended that you look up to him. Many people who don't know anything about him associate him with being an enabler. Even though I do not believe he would allow for those things to knowingly go on, I have still been sure to take his motto out of my email signature line and I do not go out and defend his actions on a regular basis. It can also be a very sore spot to victims of sexual abuse. Please tread lightly and think of someone else who can be a great inspiration to you.

Good luck with Rush!