Listing Legacy Chapters
 

I've had another question come up and don't really know the answer.

Upon registering for recruitment, are PNMs required to list any chapters they are legacies to? My first thought was, "why wouldn't you want to list them?", but some PNMs are concerned that legacy status may actually be detrimental to their recruitment...that they will be released by all or most chapters except those they are legacies to.

It's a legit concern. Three PNMs I've done recs for were released (early) by all houses except those where they were legacies. The current PNM I speak of is open to the legacy chapter, but doesn't want to be left with it as the only possibility, especially considering that so many legacies don't get bids these days.

I know a lot of registration forms request legacy info, but don't know if divulging it is optional.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

There's no such requirement to divulge legacy status to any sorority, even to the legacy sorority. There's no way to make this a requirement, and there's no way to verify if someone opts out purposefully or by accident.

If the applicable sorority member sends in a Legacy Form (or whatever each group calls it) the line on the form is superfluous. Many computerized recruitment systems (ICS) won't give out legacy status to chapters unless it pertains to them anyway.

But a lot of Panhellenics do include that legacy info. on the party lists for all to see, which can work against a PNM just as greekdee said. A better solution is for the alumna writing the recommendation for a legacy PNM to make sure legacy status is included with the information she passes along to the chapter, as AOII Angel suggested. That way only the legacy chapter knows.

I always include that on my recs whether she is a legacy to my group or another. In fact our form has a place for that. So if I know it,and I always ask if I don't already know, it's going on the rec.

Sneaky. ;)

One of the topics at Ice Water a million years ago when I was a Rushee was, "Tell me about the Greeks in your family?"

No, I just ask up front. Like, what all sororities are represented in your family, sweetie? Followed by batting my eyes....

So if a PNM lists her legacy chapters, she could be released by other chapters. But then she also could be released by her legacy chapter. Does this happen often or just at competitive/SEC schools--where legacies remain bidless?

I'm on the fence about this. I would only NOT list it if the PNM has a sitting sister in a Chapter at the same university the PNM is going through. We did that with my niece when she went through recruitment. The legacy chapter knew she was a sister (obvi) but we did not put that information on any other documentation.

I think that with so many legacies getting dropped, that it's best to leave it off. Also, I wouldnt include it for a rec girl that I know.

This is why I think it is more considerate of the legacy chapter to release the PNM at the earliest possible time. Waiting too long in the process seems to work against the PNM. This has happened to a couple of PNMs I know. These girls were carried through the last party before prefs. and were not invited back for prefs. I won't name the schools, but will say this happened at schools where recs. are a must!

Me personally, I'd leave it off. It's nobody's business and you can advise the applicable chapters through alternate methods. While going through rush conversation, the girl can say she knows Greek women and that's part of why she's interested in joining a sorority. But I wouldn't tell anyone her Mom, the light of her life, is an XYZ if XYZ is on that campus.

And the rule is ridic. How about the legacies you have that you aren't aware of? Some sororities are really restrictive on what they consider a legacy, but some are pretty loose about it. Was your grandmother in a sorority? How are you supposed to know? She's been dead for 30 years and your mom never mentioned it. Maybe she didn't even know. I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about leaving that nugget off the form.

The rec documents I use don't even ask for legacy connections unless they are to our own sorority, which I think is fine and appropriate. I don't know why a recruitment registration form would ask about them period unless it's to make the info known to sororities. I could be wrong, so please enlighten me if I am! Maybe they're just keeping record of how many legacies go through recruitment. Personally, I think making a chapter aware of a legacy is info that should be provided by alumnae.. and it's something the PNMs can share themselves during recruitment.

In answer to ADPiEE's question, this does appear to be common in the situation AXOrushadvisor gave - where a PMN is rushing at the same school where she has a sister, and that sister is a current undergrad in a sorority. In that case, I think it's the rule and not the exception. I know that every PNM from my area (that I'm aware of) who has gone into recruitment with those dynamics was released early by everyone but "her sister's sorority" as most people around me say. They all got bids and pledged, though. I know two who have dropped because their sister's sorority really wasn't the best fit for them -- but they weren't given any other choice. This has happened at SEC schools as well as less competitive ones.

BUT -- I know plenty of PNMs who are legacies via their mothers, grandmothers or sisters at different schools and they didn't suffer drastic cuts from other chapters. In all honesty, though, I don't know if they revealed the connections when they registered, for fear of this very scenario happening. I am asking because the question has come up with me. Realizing that trends in recruitment can change, I just like to stay up on things because I don't want to advise someone incorrectly.

And agree 100 percent with FSUZeta -- some PNMs I know have also been dropped by their legacy chapter right before pref. I hate it when that happens. I may even know which schools you're talking about.

(In all honesty, there may be times when a PNM doesn't want their legacy connection known for other reasons! Though fraternity recruitment is different because the men aren't restricted by quota and RFM, I know someone whose sons don't want their legacy status known because the chapter at their school has such a bad rep -- always on probation, in trouble with local and school authorities and exisiting under the threat of being kicked off campus. They're afraid their options would be limited by being legacies. I really don't know, though, if fraternities care that someone is a legacy to another chapter and if it weighs on their decision to extend invites...maybe some fraternity members can offer some insight on that. )

Would the other chapters know though? Like if everyone was dropping Suzie because she was an XYZ, but XYZ dropped her first round, would the other chapters know? I don't remember my chapter knowing what PNMs went to another group unless the PNM told me.

No, they wouldn't know who dropped whom.

I've seen things go a few different ways with legacies. I have known some legacies who didn't even inform their legacy sorority of their status because they wanted to get in "on their own." I've seen legacies dropped by every other sorority because their legacy status is well-known. I've seen legacies dropped from their legacy chapter just before prefs. And then I've seen sororities brag about poaching multi-generational legacies away from their legacy sororities. Legacies can also feel enormous pressure to join their legacy sorority, so I can understand why other sororities would cut them.

Without a doubt, the legacies with an active upperclassman sorority member at the same school are at a significant disadvantage. I can think of quite a few girls from UCF who really had no choice during their recruitments. It's a little hard when your sister is the recruitment chair AND your mom is one of the alumnae volunteers serving refreshments, for example...

I don't think this is unusual at all at least at some of the more competitive schools or houses.

My brother didn't want his legacy status known, because he wanted to know that he was invited to join the fraternity on his own merit. In fact, he looked at more than one chapter, and it just happened that the one that was the best fit for him was also his legacy group.

Both my daughters were Mega-legacies. We only listed me with Daughter #1. With Daughter # 2 we only listed daughter #1 as she joined ADPi. All Rec letters to ADPi had all the relatives listed. I specifically asked all their non ADPi Rec writers to leave that information off. Personally, I would leave it off altogether.

I always put it on if I know it. And I also always ask for it. The reason is - and the rationale I give the chapters I have worked with - is that it is an indication that the women knows about Greek life, has parents/aunts/etc who are supportive of it and therefore may be more in tune with our requirements for attendance, behaviour, etc. I see Greek influence as a plus and never assume that the legacy will go where her grandmother, mother, aunt, sister, etc, etc went or will use that as a reason to avoid it. I think it's a plus and I try to impart that idea to my chapters.

Well, to be Debbie Downer, she could end up getting released everywhere INCLUDING the legacy chapter, and be left with a handful of nothing.

We don't know that those PNMs were released because the sororities said "well she's a legacy to XYZ, she'll get a bid there, let's cut her" or because they said "she doesn't fit here" - legacy status notwithstanding.

...so i'm guessing the best bet is to leave it off the recruitment forms but send in a legacy form to the legacy chapter along with recs to all groups.

Probably.

This is what I wish we had done with my D last fall.

Generally speaking, if you are a legacy to a chapter, but through a different chapter, it shouldn’t matter that much. Should give you a second look. However, if the legacy is to a current chapter member, then other fraternity chapters most likely will not actively rush him. Yet, if the man makes it know that he does not intend to rush his legacy chapter, it might be easier for him to get a bid from a non legacy chapter. But that would really depend more on the campus and the two chapters in question.

I know this is something many fraternity chapters like to know as well - and not limited to just the male side of the family either. For example, if Mom or sister is Greek as well, as Titchou notes, the rushee may be more in tune with Greek Life. Or if they are a legacy to a fraternity that is not represented on campus, that may viewed as a plus for the same “in tune” reasons.

Back to sorority legacies, if the PNM is a legacy to ABC, but ABC is not represented on campus, would y’all recommend she be listed as an ABC legacy?

A friend of mine joined DPhiE, and didn't find out until after she pledged, or possibly even after initiation, that her grandmother was also a DPhiE.