What are your thoughts on lectures outside of class?
 

Hey everyone! I know this is completely random and does not pertain to Greek life at all, but I wanted to think what other GC members think about a certain style of teaching and its fairness. The style utilizes in-class activities and discussion, which is enjoyable, but because of this, leaves no time for lecture. Therefore, the teacher requires that before every class the students watch an hour long lecture on their own time on what we would learn in class that day. Basically it is a recording of the teachers voice over a few power point slides. These lectures are also what our quizzes and tests are on. As a 3 credit course with a lab, it would be taking up 6+ hours (two hours in lecture, one in lab, one hour for homework for lecture, one hour homework for lab, two hours watching lectures)

Now, my question to any other GCers out there is, do you think this is fair? I'm not going to say which side I am on because it doesn't really matter, but I've heard a few arguments for both sides (Half my class is strongly against this, other half thinks its a great way to learn) and wanted to get an impartial viewpoint. I'm also thinking about maybe writing a paper on the situation for another class (communications) as I think it's a pretty interesting situation since many teachers at my school are now teaching this way!

OT: If this is in the wrong area, please let me know! I just want to get as much feedback as possible :)

In full disclosure I'm a college professor, so interpret within context I suppose.

I think this is more than fair. Students should expect to put in *at least* three hours outside of class for every hour spent in class. So for that 6 hours some students are whining about, they should still be tossing at least another three hours on top of that. And that's not including the lab hours...

The fact that the students can't speed up the lecture (i.e., that it HAS to be an hour every day) tells me this professor loves the sound of his own voice a little bit too much.

This would not be allowed on my campus. A three credit hour class meets for three hours, and it is expected there should be three hours of preparation for each hour class meets.

If the professor wanted you to read the material as preparation - that would be ok, because you could take breaks and go at your own pace.

Sure it's fair. College students are adults. No one is forcing you to take the class. You can drop it, complain about it in evaluations, change your major, whatever. If you think a class is too much work, don't take it? If it is a required course for your major, you chose that major.

Is it annoying? Sure.

LOL at the 3 hours of prep for every hour of class time. As if.

Yeah, with my 18 credit hours this semester that would equal 72 hours of class time/prep time per week. I don't mind studying, but that is a little extreme. Not everyone has time for that.

With a voice over powerpoint, you can usually stop and start it at your leisure. Having all online courses in my grad program, I really prefer these. When taking notes on the powerpoint, you can pause it, reverse it if you didn't catch it all, etc. It is so much easier than trying to take notes in a class.

cr2817- You didn't mention a textbook. If tests are based on lecture, it sounds like there is no textbook? Listen to a one hour lecture or read a few chapters in a textbook? I'd take the lecture any day.

fair?

As a college student, part of your leaning experience is managing your time and tailoring your preparation to ensure your best performance. What that means for you is likely different than what it means for anybody else, but that's the deal. It's on you to get the education, because they're not giving the tuition money back.

fair? yeah.

Why would it not be allowed if the expectation is three hours of preparation for each hour class meets? The OP's description is basically two hours of preperation for each hour the class meets (1 hour watching the "lecture," and 1 hour doing homework).

My opinion: Watching the lecture is nothing more than homework. Of course it's "fair," if "fair" matters. Fair =/= realistic or reasonable.

The more important question is whether it's effective. As a general rule, I always found that class time spent examining what we were supposed to have already studied prior to class was much more effective than class time spent introducing something followed by homework on that topic. Of course, this can vary with the subject area.

That said, I think having to watch a power point every day might violate the terms of the Geneva Convention. #hatespowerpointwithapassion

Sorry to not answer everyone's question, today is super busy for me :p however, we do have a textbook for the class in which we have required reading. We also can skip ahead in the lectures (or not watch th all together) but our grades may suffer. Ill be back in a little to answer all the other questions better!!

My colleague assigns reading and an online quiz about the reading material that must be completed before the relevant lecture. If the quiz is not completed before the lecture, the quiz "locks out" and the student is given a "0" for that day. Because of this system, students come to class prepared for the lecture/discussion. Initially, the students express resentment, anger and frustration but quickly learn that they can engage in meaningful conversation and relevant application of the material in a classroom environment.

In the United States, we take for granted the gift of learning and education.

I think you have raised an interesting point. I'm on the on-line education committee and the curriculum committee for my university, and we are having discussions about the definition of a credit hour, appropriate use of on-line teaching methods, outside-of-class work load, etc. The advent of on-line instruction has created new teaching methods, such as the one you describe. Frankly, the waters are pretty muddy right now as brick-and-mortar institutions figure all of this out. I've noticed that many students seem to fall on one side of the fence or the other...they either love on-line instruction or they hate it. There's not much middle ground. One thing that has come across loud and clear is that students don't like enrolling in a face-to-face class only to find out there's a large on-line component.

Do you have a chance to discuss the powerpoints in class? Do the in-class activities link to the student assessments? That is the aspect that would concern me, since it sounds like your grade is based on what you're doing on your own, not on the in-class activities. I'm not sure how I feel about that, pedagogically.

Ah, flipping the classroom. This is one of the newest trends in education. The theory is that if you preview and are exposed to the material before coming to class, you can use class time for flexible grouping, differentiation, discussion, practice, extension, etc.

I think it's no different from being expected to read the chapter in advance. I'd have to dig up the articles, but there is a lot of literature suggesting that pre-reading and then doing in-class activities is more effective than just lecture.

It's certainly part of the model that law schools have used for a long, long time.

We just had a discussion about "flipped classrooms" in this semester's TA training session. I think its effectiveness depends on the subject matter--since I teach music, some aspects of what I teach could be really effectively addressed through a flipped classroom structure, but other concepts would fail miserably when taught this way. I'm also a visual learner, so I'd rather read a chapter than listen to a lecture. For certain subjects and for auditory learners, though, it can be a great idea.

Seems reasonable. Perhaps your instructor is doing this because they have a low degree of confidence that you will actually read the material, so they're hand-holding you through it? I hope this is a 100/200 level course.

I do agree with what the majority of people seem to be saying. We do seem to learn more in this context, as we have much more time to go over the material. However, the activities we do in class do not really relate to the lecture. (we also only started class a few weeks ago so maybe as the semester goes on, they will become more involved) I don't want to disclose what the class is due to the fact that it's a pretty unique and small class and makes me very easy to identify, but it is a major required class only taught by one teacher.

Hope this answers everyones questions :)

I run my classroom in a similar fashion. It certainly weeds out the people who try and the people who are not motivated. It also allows more motivated/advanced students to work at an advanced pace or level. Simply put, it places the responsibility on the student, not so much to learn the material on their own but to ask questions. For some students, this means I act as their personal tutor in class for 5-20 minutes, sometimes longer, at a time. But if the material is never viewed/read beforehand and questions for clarification never asked, well then the chances of success are small.

ETA: although I try to keep the lectures at 10-15 minutes per video, per night so it is maybe about 30-45minutes per week rather than an hour at a shot. I could see that being annoying.

Yes, I also don't see how this is much different than requiring you to read the chapter ahead of time. It means that the professor has more in time in class to delve more deeply into the material and really teach, try different group activities...basically, do things the students want.

Because some people take an hour to read a chapter, and some people take 15 minutes. With the situation described in the OP, you are stuck for an hour whether you could have processed the information more quickly or not.

Not to mention powerpoints kind of really truly heinously suck and I don't know anyone who likes them.

Preach.

I agree, in theory, that powerpoints suck, but if I do a lecture without powerpoints, my students complain that they have to take notes.

They complain about taking notes? Um really? They need to suck it up.

THIS. The students in my class complain about my PPTs, but then on the weeks I don't have them, they complain they can't keep up with taking notes.

Powerpoints are a necessary evil in a big lecture hall. Sometimes the only way to use a picture to show the whole class is either Powerpoint or handouts or both. A professor who took the time to put together the notes on Powerpoint or handouts ahead of time probably spends at least 2 or 3 hours putting together each lecture.

I also teach one section in a classroom so poorly arranged that there is no way the students at the back can see things I handwrite on the board.

Poor babies.

Yet somehow many of us managed to learn in big lecture halls before there was power point.

Helpful -- maybe; sometimes. Necessary -- no.

Using power point just to show a picture isn't really using power point, though -- it's not really a power point presentation. :D

I'll admit that power point can be used effectively if it's used to complement a lecture. I've seen it done.

But few people I've run across know how to use it effectively. if it's just done to put the notes or outline up there, it's a waste of time and effort.

I typically do something like ask the class "what are some reasons that companies manufacture overseas?" and as they give responses, we discuss them, I ask for examples, etc. THEN I show a slide that has the six reasons I'm looking for (usually there are one or two the class hasn't come up with, and I discuss those while the slide is on the screen). So then, they can refer back to the list, but they still have to pay attention/participate in the lecture to be able to answer the questions that might appear on the homework or exams.