Daughter is a legacy and was cut
 

Hello, everyone! My daughter is a First year, and went through Rush in the fall. She was shocked and hurt when she was cut by my house at my alma mater. I remember how hard it was to cut a legacy...we had to get special permission from our national office, and we had to have specific reasons to "release" her. She kept her head up, and continued to rush, but dropped out before Pref night when she couldn't picture herself in any of the houses she had left.
My daughter has been approached by some friends to participate in Spring rush.... evidently it's for houses that either didn't make quota or had girls drop out. These girls are at a house that she liked, but didn't love.

From what I've heard, her story isn't unique. SO many girls were broken-hearted after Fall rush. She's asked me for my opinion of what to do. Should she go through Spring rush and potentially pledge a house that she "kind-of liked" or wait til Fall and start over again with a clean slate?

University of North Carolina?
University of Northern Colorado?

Sorry! University of North Carolina. (I'm new at this!)

The question she needs to ask herself is if she would rather not be Greek at all than be in the chapters that are recruiting her. If the answer is yes, she should wait for next Formal, knowing that there's a really good chance she won't fare much better. Her other option is to give the chapter a shot. If she decides it's not for her, she can depledge and do Formal. There's the added stigma of having broken a pledge, but I don't know that it's MUCH worse than being a re-rush.

I thInk things have changed a lot since you were in school. There are a lot more legacies as each generation gets to school. We can't keep them all and decisions sometimes have to be made.

I don't get how someone can think they don't like a chapter that they have several friends in. You already like them and have something in common. It always sounds to me like someone is more worried about chapter reputation than being honest with themselves about where they really fit in.

If she rushes again it won't be a clean slate like you said. She's been through and got cut before so there's a good chance those houses will cut her again unless something really changes between now and then. I think she should go through again only if she's really honest with herself and believes she will be ok not being Greek at all and can also survive a bunch more rejection because that could definitely happen.

I'm so sorry this happened. As a fellow mom, this is one of the fears that I have for my daughter. One thing that I do know is that, especially at schools in the south with smaller quotas, there's a good chance that there are more legacies going through recruitment than quota and lots of double, triple legacies.

I agree with the advice given above. Please keep us posted!

Did her friends approach her about going through spring rush IN GENERAL, or about joining their group in particular?

Because if it's the former, it may not mean that they think she fits their chapter - more that they want her to check the other groups out and are trying to be Panhellenic.

On a side note - I looked on their website and it seems like ALL the sororities are coming to the kickoff event (even the ones who don't have room for more members). Isn't this the same thing that they did at UF that we all agreed on here was misleading and a waste of time to the PNMs and hurt the sororities who do need members even more?

http://www.uncpanhellenic.com/recrui...3-recruitment/

I think legacy status at some schools is of decreasing importance in membership selection. There are so many legacies at some chapters, that the "automatic" in just can't be in place anymore. I know this varies from campus to campus and chapter to chapter, but it does seem like in general it doesn't carry the weight that it used to.

As for spring recruitment versus formal, only your daughter can decide that. It seems that sophomores do get bids an UNC, but unless she has done things to make her a better candidate for membership than she was last fall, she will have an added strike against her that she didn't have before. If her grades and activities are better than they were as a freshman, and if she has developed relationships with sorority members this year, maybe that would overshadow her sophomore status. I would also suggest that she obtain solid recs for each sorority before doing formal again.

Wow! Thanks for all of the advice! I have a couple of questions...

Do girls in a sorority actually remember from year to year who they cut? I rationalized it that 25% or so will graduate and 25% or so will be new sisters, so only a portion of the girls might remember my daughter having been cut. Do they keep notes from year to year? (with legacies, I bet they actually do). So to re-rush my house will likely give the same results?

Also, from what I understand, ALL of the houses on campus have to be present at the Spring Rush kick-off. Even the ones that have no intention of taking any new pledges. I agree that it will be misleading and probably detrimental to the houses that may not be top tier, but really want to add girls. It's also (in my opinion) condescending to the girls planning to atte

YES, Mom... the chapters will know who was cut previously. The reason may not matter the second time around, but they almost certainly know that she is re-rushing. Keeping notes is not the issue. We cannot possibly guess if your chapter will cut her again or not.

If I was in your position, I would remind my daughter that she still had chapters to choose from prior to pref. Think of all the girls that had NO chapters to choose from? How much would they have loved to have those same choices? Being in a sorority is a gift of sisterhood. Hopefully she can decide to appreciate & accept that gift from those who offered it to her, rather than focusing on the chapter that she thought she had to have.

Please, please, please STOP this "top tier" thinking. It does nothing but hurt in many ways. Every group has things to offer, every sorority has a sisterhood that they treasure. That is what matters.

I LOVE this!! Sisterhood is a gift.

By having every group attend, UNC may be attempting to de-stigmatize spring recruitment, as well as letting PNMs know that there are more choices so that they can make informed decisions about spring recruitment versus fall formal. (We get a lot of new members posting that they accepted a COB bid without checking out any other groups and have buyer's remorse.)

Your daughter needs to prepare herself for the reality that it will never be easier as a sophomore - she needs to know her options may be even more limited than they were the previous year. Although UNC isn't as competitive as the SEC, she should plan to have recs for every chapter. She will need to evaluate before recruitment if she would be comfortable accepting a bid to a chapter that isn't "top tier." The tier mentality is difficult for a 19 year old to ignore, but it may preclude her from having a great greek experience. In that same vein, she would be wise to seriously consider the groups recruiting this spring. I think the legacy chapter ship has sailed - she needs to pretend they aren't on campus and look at the other chapters as if they are the only options.

Very true words... almost every organization has a chapter at a school where they are doing extrememly well, and a chapter at a differnet school where they might be struggling. "Tiers" mean nothing once you graduate, and you are an alumna SIGNIFICANTLY longer than you are a collegian.

I'll just add that I think it would be helpful to have given some clear and honest thought to why your daughter did not do well in formal. Was she from out of state? Did she not have recs? Was the general scoop on her that she ONLY wanted to be an XYZ? How was her GPA? Has she made friends with girls in the various houses who might be pulling for her next year?

As mentioned in earlier posts, if she has vastly improved whatever contributed to her results last time, this can make a difference. But only you and your daughter can truly know that.

I agree with 33girl. If she has friends in a specific group and they are asking her to look at their group, then that is a positive sign.

In the end, you have to ask her if her goal is to be Greek - to have a sisterhood, to make memories, to benefit from a lifetime of associations with her sisters. OR does she only want to be an XYZ because that might not be possible.

THIS.

Amen.

A full schedule of pref invites is a far cry from "did not do well". Your advice is better-geared, I think, towards someone who legitimately had no options. The OP's daughter clearly had options, she just chose not to pursue them.

I'll fill you in a little on my daughter, as it might help -
She only knew one current sister. Also, she's pretty quiet and tends to be shy in new situations - until she becomes comfortable, and then she is hilarious and fun.
It will work out for the best in the long run, I hope, and she'll find the house that she truly fits in.

Three houses for pref at UNC is a successful recruitment. Also, while the sophomore quota does seem to place more sophomores in each pledge class, your daughter will not be a "clean slate" pnm. All freshman at UNC come in with fabulous grade points. This is not true of sophomores. And the girls do remember who they cut year to year. If this were my daughter, I would strongly recommend that she become very active on campus and keep her grade point way up if she wanted to attempt a second formal recruitment.

Sometimes I think that it hurts mom more than the daughter. Even though I NEVER pressured my daughter to join my sorority, when she was cut by my sorority about midway through recruitment week I felt so betrayed and so hurt. Of course my daughter continued on to have a wonderful recruitment and found her "home" in another sorority!! I also completely acknowledge that most chapters simply can't offer bids to all legacies as there are just too many now. However, don't most sororities invite legacies back at least to the second party?

I was told by our outgoing VPM that we are generally encouraged to cut legacies as early as possible, if she is to be cut, because it gives the legacy the best opportunity to not get false hope and that she doesn't ignore all the other chapters on campus. We are a school, however, where our recruitment kickoff includes no-cut house tours. So each legacy always does come back for a second day.

I am sorry for your daughter's disappointment, as well as yours. It's painful and there is no getting around that. Most of the PNMs I do recommendations for go through recruitment at the super-competitive SEC schools. We see this happen a good bit and I think it's related to record numbers of PNMs going through recruitment these days -- I really think there was a Baby Boom in the '90's! A couple of years ago, word on the street was that there were enough legacies to one Ole Miss chapter to actually fill a pledge class at least two times over.

You mentioned that your daughter can present as quiet and shy. That can make for a rockier recruitment, which I have seen happen to more than a few really stellar girls trying to navigate through big, busy and loud recruitments. They do, however, often connect and shine better at COB events.

That said, I would encourage that your daughter take part in UNC's (great school, by the way!) spring recruitment. It may be just the atmosphere for her to get to know the participating chapters better. She may just find that a chapter she "liked" ends up being one she loves. That is not unusual at all! Best wishes to her!

Without divulging membership selection information, I would say with confidence that each chapter/sorority has its own policy re: releasing or carrying legacies.

An "automatic invite" to second round may depend on many things. For example, if the legacy does not have the minimum GPA, she may be automatically released after Open House. Hypothetically speaking, of course, because as we all know, politics kicks in and if Laura Legacy's relatives have contributed thousands to the Sorority or have other "connections", pressure may be brought to bear... you guys know where I'm going with this.

Bottom line: every sorority has its own policies. NO universals in recruitment. This has been talked about/debated in other threads ad infinitum.

There is no such thing as a "clean slate" for a rush-over, as Old Row and thetalady stated upthread. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

It will especially hurt her daughter's recruitment if she's using "top tier" when talking about chapters with her. It's bad enough that the PNMs all gossip about such silly/irrelevant things, but when parents do the same, the PNM will most likely put an even larger emphasis on them, when it really doesn't matter.

For what is worth. PNM's like your daughter tend to do extremely well in spring recruitment. Formal recruitment can be difficult for shy and quiet girls. Some Chapter at UNC will be thrilled to have your daughter as a member and I have a feeling she will find her home IF she can keep an open mind. At this point she has nothing to loose. She should go to the Greek event and see what her options are and have fun!

Good luck to your daughter.

Thanks for all of the invaluable advice! You've definitely given me some tools to help guide her, and have really opened my eyes about the importance of being open-minded. I'll post again after the Monday night kickoff!

Best wishes to you daughter!

You have a great atrtitude, UNCAlum! I was impressed that you came here without bitterness toward your own GLO. I really hope that your daughter will enjoy informal rush. Sounds like she will do better in a less hectic situation. And tell her that "running to the house" can be highly overrated!

Just to stress what the others have said, your daughter will not have a clean slate for Fall Recruitment. This does not mean she will not be successful, but it is important that you weigh that against Spring Recruitment before the decision is made. Without getting into any membership selection, chapters know exactly who has walked into their doors in the past and this is especially true of legacy candidates. Earlier posters are 100% correct that legacies are released as soon as possible so that they can put their best foot forward at other houses. For most houses this occurs after round 2.

If your daughter has grown as a person and has become significantly more outgoing since arriving at UNC, then maybe Fall recruitment would be a good option for her, but being known on campus can work equally against you too. She needs to take a hard long look at the relationships that she has formed and find out if she has made deep rooted connections with girls in the houses she was always interested in.

I have to agree that when you state she has friends in houses that she "likes" but doesn't "love" that reputation and tiers have to be in play here. I think it is natural, but I find that reputations at some of the major SEC and Southern Schools are just that...reputations. Some of the best sisterhoods around are found where people think they don't want to look. When a chapter faces any type of adversity because they are labeled from the 60s-70's-80's, they form strong bonds of solidarity that are far stronger and more loving than those found in houses, that from the outside seem like the beat all, end all of Sorority Row.

EVERY single GLO has something to offer. Some stress academics, some stress being social butterflies, the list goes on. What this will all boil down to is if your daughter wants to be Greek or not. If she does, she has nothing to lose by going through Spring Recruitment, trying each chapter on for size and then making a decision. Right now it is simply speculation that she does not "love" any of the recruiting chapters. If she leaves Spring Recruitment without a home then she can try Fall.

I have said this before and I will say it again here because it is fitting. Reputations are tricky things. A good one can hide a flawed sisterhood, and bad one can hide a good one.

I'm so glad you're daughter is going to do informal! Let me give you my perspective because I did informal 20 years ago.

I didn't do formal "Rush" because I believed the negative stereotypes about Greek life at the time. After I got to college, I made friends with girls in sororities and learned that they really weren't true...and that sorority life had a lot to offer. I signed up for informal Spring rush (most of the groups on campus participated) fulling thinking I would join a group that I had friends in. Ironically, I ended up falling in love with the one group where I didn't know ANYONE. In the informal setting, I really got to spend time with the girls and really knew where I felt "at home." I had finally found girls just like me with similar values and goals!

In some ways, I wish all girls could go through informal because it gives you a much better feel for the group--but I know it's not possible with the number of PNM's.


Thank you for keeping us posted!

Agreed. Many of my sisters who would consider themselves shy have said that informal recruitment can be a good time to show what will make you a wonderful sister (and, in your daughter's case, it looks like there are many ways she could add to the chapter) in a less overwhelming setting. And, like it has been said above, what does she have to lose? :)

Good luck to your daughter!

Does your daughter know that you've put up a lot of really specific information about her? Collegiate members do come here, and there is a good chance that there are people who are at UNC. I would really suggest you edit such easily-indentifiable information about her here, especially if she doesn't know that you're doing so.

Done. Thanks!

When does informal begin? I feel completely vested in the process with your daughter and want to root from the sidelines! :)

@#! I did it again. I was looking for the Like button to totally agree with gee_ess.

^Me too!

But it doesn't. The rushees get there, see that super popular ABC who they didn't get a bid from is there and get all OMG YAY THERE'S STILL A CHANCE FOR ME IN ABC THEY STILL NEED GIRLS WHOOT WHOOT.

Then (this can be when they talk to the girls at the event, or when the actual invites start going out) the rushees discover that ABC didn't need members at all, they are just at the event because they have to be, and they're so upset that it makes it even harder for them to give a fair look to the groups that ARE taking new members. It's like seeing fresh lobster on a menu and then finding out that there is only one fresh lobster served a day and it's already gone - anything else isn't going to taste as good because you psyched yourself up for lobster.

I totally agree with you. Back in the old days, when I was in school Panhel listed the chapters who were participating before doing sign ups. This gave the PNMs an accurate picture of who had openings and the chapters had a pool of women who were interested in those chapters to pull from for events. Our Panhel didn't tell PNMs how many spots each chapter had, but they required that the chapters have at least three to participate. If there were more than three chapters, and there usually were in the fall, they would set up open houses that worked like formal recruitment, only fewer houses to visit. Both groups went into it with a clearer picture. One fall in particular 7 chapters participated and over 100 girls signed up.

I totally agree. However, I have yet to work with an office of Greek Affairs that would come close to understanding this. (The same folks who write websites and brochures saying recs are the responsibility of the chapters.)