Negative Greek Image on ER
 

Did anyone watch ER tonight? Yet another negative portrayal of greeks!! The show depicted drunken sorority girls and hazing of pledges by frats. When will it stop?!!!
It shows a pledge dying because of alcohol related hazing.
kara

[This message has been edited by LyonAZD (edited April 26, 2001).]

I thought how Dr. Benton made the pledge's big brother clean him up after he died (he had marker on him) was an interesting idea... I think it made an impact on the big. Kinda a clean up your own mess mentality I guess. I do think it was a bad image of greeks tho...of course it was greekweek when all the bad stuff was going on!

You know, it seems like no matter how many times people in general try to stop other people from thinking a certain thing, especially in a "bash on the greeks" point of view, you have to face it, people will always have negative feelings towards greeks. Along with abortion, along with becoming pregnant before you are married, along with waiting to have sex AFTER you are married, along with different religions, everyone tries to make us see as one. It will never stop. No matter how hard you try, all you will do is have them think about it more.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that we should stop trying to tell others the positive points of being a greek, but we need to face the fact that if they are going to think like that, then let them. We should not try to aruge with them. Those who believe we are better than what others say, they are the ones who chose to become greeks.

Greek Week was an athletic event on my campus -- not a drunken free-for-all like ER writers made it out to be! Somebody tell me how many sororities out there have a contest that involves running around chasing pigs in the mud while drunk? Please!!! How ridiculous!

Personally, I think that if enough people complained, the entertainment industry would think twice before constantly stereotyping Greeks in film and t.v. Not to say that it would cut it out completely, but it may deter it somewhat. Anyone know NBC's e-mail address or physical address?

I'm writing a letter, and I suggest anyone who didn't like ER last night do the same. There's strength in numbers!! BUT, if you write, don't just say that you hated the Greek portrayal. List positive things that your group does and show them a different side of GLO's. And tell them how many people you know who were outraged by the episode, and how turned off they are by ER now. It made me not want to watch the show next week - and I've been an avid watcher since it's first episode!

Was it a negative representation of Greeks? YEs it was. But think about how certain chapters have been conducting themselves! If WE as the Greek community were not participating i nthese types of activities, then they would have no basis for this. But as long as chapters continue this type of stupidity (and, regardless of whether it does not happen at YOUR chapter, it still does happen and all too often) this representation will continue.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dzrose93:
[B]Greek Week was an athletic event on my campus -- not a drunken free-for-all like ER writers made it out to be! Somebody tell me how many sororities out there have a contest that involves running around chasing pigs in the mud while drunk?

During Greek Week, my sisters and I along with the rest of the Greeks on campus were too busy canning, working at soup kitchens, tutoring elementary school kids and participating in dance marathon to think about chasing pigs in the mud while drunk. Color us BORING! Oh well... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif


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~@~Tracy~@~
Proud to be Delta-Z :-)

NBC's address is:

30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112

Phone number is 212-664-4444.

I think the E-mail is (first name).(last name)@nbc.com. So, you would have to know whom to write to.

Unfortunatly, Leslie Anne and lovelyivy are mostly correct, aren't they?

DeltAlum

The show Friends also on Thurs. night before ER also negitavely portraied greeks, but not as much as ER. Rachael Green met up with a sorority sister and they both reminised about a Sigma Chi Lualu and getting drunk. What was wrong with NBC that night?

[This message has been edited by Lisa Fishman (edited April 28, 2001).]

Isn't it the network that carries Inside Edition? Well???????

Leslie Anne,

I think what makes everyone so upset is that if any other group was treated so negatively in the media, everyone and their brother would be accusing the networks of discrimination and slander. But with Greeks, since they're misperceived as a group of rich white males, it's OK to bash them all you want. Yes, I've seen Greeks act like drunken idiots, but I've also seen athletes, musicians, seamstresses, you name it do the same. No one is disputing that the incidents do happen, it is the magnitude that they are given.

It's become a kind of shorthand for negative things and that's stupid and lazy on the part of writers of the shows. Kind of like during World War II, when all you had to do in a screenplay to label someone "Bad guy" was give him a German accent. Obviously there were hundreds of thousands of Germans out there who weren't bad guys in the least.

It also gives people a very false sense of security - oh, as long as I don't/my child doesn't go Greek, they'll never drink too much, etc. etc. Irresponsible drinking is a SOCIETAL problem, and until this country wises up and tries to solve it with some laws that make sense, it will continue whether Greeks exist or not.




[This message has been edited by 33girl (edited April 28, 2001).]

Gracie,

Actually, Inside Edition is a syndicated program and not carried by any "network" per se. In one city it will be on the NBC station, in another on the Fox affilliate, etc.

DeltAlum

33girl, I couldn't have said it better myself!!! Labeling any group is dangerous, if races were labeled in negative ways, the espisode would have never made it past network approval. if we as a group take a stand, the negative portrayal will stop. i have already sent an email to ER and even if nothing happens, at least i tried to prevent this negative image from continuing. I don't want my future son or daughter to be plagued by the same negative ideas that are so prominent in todays world.

kara

Leslie Anne,

I AM being realistic. Remember the Seinfeld episode that was pulled off the air because the Puerto Ricans complained that it belittled their people? Or the Law and Order episode about the wildings in the park where women were stripped of their clothing by a group of men during the annual Puerto Rican Day celebrations? That episode had to be scrapped after 1 viewing because the Puerto Rican community in New York took offense to the fact that the producers of the show were portraying members of their country in a bad light -- even though the show was based on an actual occurence!

There are many more examples that I can list, but these are just 2 recent ones that come to mind -- mainly because of all the bad press they received, and the fact that the producers were forced to do something about it, namely - take them off the air! And, I guarantee you, they'll be more careful about the subject matter they choose in their upcoming shows.

So, why shouldn't Greeks take a stand to a negative portrayal of OUR people? There is no reason for us to stand by and watch our names get dragged through the mud. It would be apathetic to do so.

Yes, we drink. Yes, some of us do stupid things at times. But, that is only a very small part of our GLO's compared to all the many good deeds that we do. I think to sit there and say "well, stuff like that really happens so just get over it when you see it on TV" is a VERY apathetic approach to take.

(And, as for cow tipping, I can say with 100% certainty that the GLO's on my campus never participated in such a juvenile activity. Even after drinking, we had a little more class than that. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif )

Hope you can understand where I'm coming from. If we don't let our voices be heard, then these types of episodes will continue to be shown on TV and parents and potential rushees will see them and question the benefits of going Greek. Let that happen a little more often, and you'll see the end of the Greek system as we know it. And then where will we be?

I, also, want to give merit to Leslie
Anne's view.... do I like the fact that her argument has weight? No, but it does.

Yes, all of our organizations do good things and yes, our organizations do serve a purpose. It is also true that as a Greek population, "we" have given the media excessive amounts of ammunition to use against us.

I, like many of you, got upset when I watched ER on Thursday. Am I upset at the writers and producers of ER or NBC? I don't think I can be... they are doing their job. Producing a show with a storyline that appeals to their viewers, sells advertising, and thus, makes money.

I don't think that any of us like to be picked on. However, I don't think that we can completely call "foul" for ER's story. I think we've all read enough posts on Greek Chat raising up praises to hazing and cheering on wet t-shirt contests to know that we, as a Greek community aren't completely innocent.

I do wish that the networks would find someone else to pick on but why should they. We have given them some excellent script material through our behavior.

Everyone, keep this discussion in mind the next time you see or hear about either your group or another group on your campus planning an event. Would you want that event portrayed on TV as a story line to represent all of your brothers and sisters around the world? If not, find one that you would.

Well....chew on this. You choose what religion to practice. There have been some stories in past years about priests doing things that are not so nice. Do you think the Vatican would just blow it off if every time a priest was on a TV show or movie, he was presented as a homosexual child molester??

Believe me, if I could prevent every hazing and irresponsible drinking incident in the world, I would. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of power over time and space. I do what I can on my own, and hope that I directly affect the people in my orbit. Yes we Greeks have done some stupid things, but we have done a lot of good things too. My argument is with the TOTALLY ONE SIDED coverage of Greeks these days.

Everyone criticizes "Animal House" and "Revenge of the Nerds" but if you look past the alcohol (which wasn't such a sin back in those olden days) I think they both have a good message. Both showed groups of guys who wanted to have a brotherhood that was against the stereotype of snobby jock fraternities. If you look at the Tri-Lambs and Bluto, Otter and co., they are basically good (if somewhat rowdy) guys at heart. On shows like Family Ties and Facts of Life, Greeks were shown as occasionally snobby at worst. Nothing so bad it would frighten small children.

Nowadays, it's a TOTALLY different story. The last semi-positive Greek portrayal I saw was on 90210, 6 years ago. The portrayal of Greeks nowadays is full on EVIL...snobby, superficial semi-humans who only think about drinking and abusing others. Everyone sporting Greek letters is portrayed this way, except for the "strong independent" who decides to do the "right thing" (no mention of how this paragon of virtue fell in with the satanic Greeks to begin with).

If nothing else, DeltAlum, as a media professional, please back up my argument of just plain BAD CRAFTSMANSHIP. Honestly, most of the Greek-themed shows I've seen have worse writing than my fifth-grade bowdlerizing of Dickens' "Christmas Carol."

Sorry folks,

I've got to weigh in on Leslie Anne's side here. The rest of this is all begging the question.

I read a statistic somewhere that Greeks in college, as a group, drink alcohol at some really unbelievably higher rate than the average student. I wish I could remember the number. Even I was stunned.

Besides, how can you compare a group of people who choose to join a diverse set of organizations to an ethnic group that is targeted because of color of skin or national origin? It's simply not the same.

And, finally, as Leslie points out, the writers aren't making this stuff up. It's happening. We hear about it all the time. Maybe (that's a very big word) the bad publicity will force us as a group to take a more introspective look at ourselves and clean up our act. Maybe then we'll stop killing ourselves and each other.

DeltAlum

Part of being involved in Greek life is drinking A LOT! That won't ever change, and until it does, Greeks will continue to be sterotyped. If we as Greeks know that the "typical sterotype" isn't true, then why get upset. Just look the other way, and don't let it bother you.

yes, there are some negative events that happen with greeks. but they happen with every organization. i cannot speak for other campuses, but at my school, the greeks are much more responsible in their behavior. We know that if we are caught doing something not only are we in trouble with the school, we have jeopardized our entire org. In fact of the alcohol cases turned into our social council, not even a quarter of them are greek related.
i agree totally with dzrose. because we, as a community, don't take a stand the negative image will only continue. Ethnic groups are not allowed to be portrayed that way. even athletic groups are not portrayed that way. (for the most part). why should we sit and take it? because it is true in a few cases? no. Every group has its problems but their negative aspects don't overshadow the positive as much as with greek orgs.

To tell you the truth, I drank more as a non-Greek (while I was underage!) than I do now that I am Greek. I get upset at statements like "part of Greek life is drinking a lot". I don't think it's right to say that it won't ever change, because to my knowledge, steps are already being taken to help combat excess drinking.

It's bad enough that many non-Greeks believe in that stereotype...so I don't think we should. Believing that alcohol is a part of Greek life only supports negative publicity...and that is NOT the way I want to be represented! I take offense to anyone who believes that a big chunk of Greek life is to drink a lot, and I don't believe being passive will help us at all.


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"Stress is toxic. It's a poison that makes me wanna throw up."--Me, on the aftermath of the UHPA Professors' strike

Visit Alpha Gamma Delta-Delta Sigma chapter and help some sisters out!

I think it is ignorant on the part of ANYONE to believe that what is seen on telvision is representative of reality. Since when is the media's word or presntation gospel? It is irresponsible to say that greeks bring it upon themselves by their actions. I guarantee you that percentage wise, there are a LOT more greeks who participate in community service, achieve high academic standards and are great people all the way around, than people who are out to get drunk all the time. Maybe the percentage of greeks who drink is because some ignorant people watch shows that show Greeks in an alcoholic light and feel they want to be apart of the 'party'. They're drinkers before they come in, and are not made drinkers by the system.

It is indeed lazy of these writers to fall back on fraternity antics and stereotypes time and time again. You know what I'd love to see? A show where the ER is DESPERATE for blood or bone marrow, and no one is a match, and a Fraternity comes in to donate in the hour of need and someone in the chapter is a match and the person's life is saved. Or, a home is destroyed by fire in one episode, half the family is tragically killed in the fire, a woman is left to find a home for her surviving family, and a Sorority comes to the hospital with clothing and financial donations, and helps to find them a place to live. Because this is also representative of what it is to be in a fraternity. Things things also do happen. What 33 girl is saying and what you're failing to listen to is the fact that media portryal IS one sided. That they never do show the good things Fraternities and Sororities do (please note UNFSigmaChi's 'frats get the shaft' thread). Frats and Sorors get a bad rap because it's easy writing. Because it's controvercial and gets viewers. Not because we're all beer guzzling sex crazed idiots. Do not do me or anyone else who is an upstanding member of the greek community (and I dare say the majority of the greek community) the diservice of saying that we deserve the way the media portays us. You give the media WAY too much power and credibility.

Leslie

[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited May 01, 2001).]

Gphi,

I take mild exception to being called ignorant (even indirectly). I know that I'm not nearly as bright as my children and their generation -- no parent is -- but I've managed pretty well in my profession, in life and in parenthood. And even my children seem to think I get smarter as they get older. So I'll try to understand my place and not use rude descriptive words if you'll do the same.

Entertainment TV is NOT reality, but you're wrong if you don't think it's a refleaction of reality. Those stories aren't Star Wars. The backgrounds come straight out of the headlines. I'm not arguing whether coverage or stories are "slanted," (remember, I said above I didn't see this epidode) I'm saying that if there wasn't any fire, there wouldn't be smoke. If we clean up our act, the negativity will go away. But we're starting way behind the power curve here. It's going to take some time.

As for your other points vis a vis coming to the aid of families, etc. -- you're right. Please read posts on other threads in which I suggest strongly that all chapters be sure to maintain contacts with media organizations and tell them when Greeks do something good. (Which we all know is often) I will just point out again that media organizations are in constant touch with the "authorities," but don't have the staff to check with every other group in society. If something good is done, someone needs to tell them.

Now, as for UNFSigmaChi's post, read the rest of the thread. I think someone said this case sounds like shoddy Journalism and offered to post the name and address of the General Manager of the TV station if I (oops, guess I gave away who the somebody is) can get the call letters. By the way, I say it "sounds" like shoddy Journalism because I didn't see the coverage, but have only heard UNF's side of the story. If he is right, the TV station deserves to get blistered.

So, I guess now, I'll keep the rest of my ignorant comments to myself. But, please, the next time you hear of a chapter closing for hazing or another alcohol or drug related death -- think about what has been said here and remember that those writers and producers read the same stories you and I do. And that's where they get many of their storylines.

DeltAlum



[This message has been edited by DeltAlum (edited May 01, 2001).]

Just to clarify, I did not say 'deltalum you are ignorant'. i said it is ignorant for anyone to take literal and as representative, what is seen on television. Perfectly intellegent people can be ignorant to things every now and again. No one is enlightened on everything. That doesn't make them ignorant people.

That being said, I didn't direct that particular comment at you, so much as at anyone who takes media portrayals of anything as necessarily based on fact. I am sorry if you misinterpreted my meaning.

Does anyone watch the tv show Three Sisters? I happened to tune in for a few minutes and, low and behold, another negative portrayal of Greeks! What the hell is wrong with NBC these days?!?!

Sorry 33,

The vast majority of people are "born" into their religion and never leave it. A few do choose, but generally move into a religious group with mostly the same values as their old one. I'm not at all interested in debating the good or bad of any specific religion.

Second, I did not see that episode of ER and can't comment on the writing, production values etc. They may have been awful. I just don't know. I will say that ER is generally exceptionally well done.

Third, my point is that (and I think Leslie Anne's -- although I don't pretend speak for her) the reason for this type of unfortunate programming is reality. If there weren't hazing and alcohol and drug abuse, there would be no story.

Please understand that I don't like seeing this stuff on TV, but I think it's important to realize the root of the problem, not the result.

DeltAlum

This is a general response to all of you. You all remind me of the Dean in Animal House that decided to CAncel Fun, I am sure he was consistant with the laws of his day as well as well meaning.

Some of you need to realize that you have so completely become your parents that I question your ages.

Before you jump all over me . . . think about it, I could close my eyes and hear a parental figure talking, and parents are more about control than safety.

We had a Geek retreat this year and one of the presenters was an acting Greek Advisor to one of the largest Greek Systems in the country.

Naturally we had to touch on Risk management, although to do him credit he did not talk the issue to death.

But during it he brought up the fact that their panhell just voted everyone but 2 not to have events with fraternities in their houses that are not dry. He alluded that these girls that voted no were somehow betraying their fellow female Greeks because they might violate the ruling and mix with non-dry fraternities anyway.

Whereas I just replied that they were expressing their democratic freedom in expressing their reasoned beliefs. But he clearly showed the bias of the administration.

Then he proceded to state that people felt badly against Greeks because Greeks could get away with anything they wanted and have these big parties etc.

At this point I had to rise wondering if the air was the same on his planet.

1. Greeks are held to a higher standard for alcohol and conduct than any other random collection of people in a college.

2. Greeks, unlike your normal beer swilling, opposite sex macking, post adolescent humans , in hormone overload ALSO do community service and perform necessary tasks for the community.

3. The difference between the generalized GDI and Greek: they both go out and party till dawn BUT the Greek gets up at 9pm to help others while the GDI gets to sleep in, eat corn flakes, and watch Gilligan's Island.

To give the advisor a lot of credit, he stood back and said he stood corrected, but I doubt if his administrative point of view changed.

If I personally could live the life of animal house, or even the life the media portrays Greek Fraternities as having: Permanent indentured servitude, constant sex by multiple partners, a drunken haze, and then destined to be a CEO in a top 500 company or on top of the world politically . . . well that would make a hell of a Rush idea.

But alas I am so contantly being nipped at by the moral majority, many of them Greeks that have become self-abusers, that I am lucky to have an occasional cocktail or ask the opposite sex out in the manner of which I believe Occidental college had become famous in its political correctness with permission slips signed by the female permitting certain degrees of sexual advancements.

Sheez before its all over we will all be prematurely old, neuter, fun less, and more concerned with preventing people from developing free and personal expression or to creating a gray juiceless society than having any semblance of fullfillment!

The bottom line is this:

1.Greeks are taken from the general population.
2. We have more social events available than normal.
3. We have more members of the opposite sex available than normal.
4. Most social events Greek or non-Greek have alcohol.

The most important thing to realize is that we are easy to pick on because we are identifiable AS a certain population. . . We are GREEK. Its a lazy man's attack.

Do I drink because I am Greek . . . NO !(I drink to stop the voices in my head, but that is another post) Do I have more occasion to drink because I am Greek . . . NO because I am one of the most social people I know which is why many of you are outposting me 10 to one.

Although there are other Fraternities that party more than mine in a more fun way which might inspre me to party and drink more.

Stop believing the bad press about yourselves and start thinking rationally about what other people are saying. Are some of these things like drinking and hazing problems? Maybe, but maybe not defined the way the moral majority defines it. . .

Brrr. I have to go I'm missing a party now, feel free to attack me I promise to dissect you later.



[This message has been edited by James (edited May 02, 2001).]

Ego, thy name is James.

It might be that some of us sound old enough to be your parents because some of us are.

Perhaps that might give us a bit more insight into some areas of life and reality that you haven't yet have had time to gain.

Disect away. But be respectful of the opinions of others as well as your own.

DeltAlum

As a general rule I do try and be respectful of other people's opinions, I am just not always sure where they get them.

In the realm of human interactions, most things seem to be governed by hearsay, feelings . . . and opinions. Usually without challenge or verification.

Machinerary is so much smoother. Which valve turns off the impending explosion? Feeling that the yellow one does it, or having heard that the green one does, or thinking that the gray one is, doesn't necessarily help .
. . you still have to close one and wait to see if things go boom.

That is where learning and expertise come in.

Its not that my ego is big, it's monstrous (after all size does matter http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif), its that my intellegence and understanding are small.

I often need things explained to me like a 6 year old for clarity http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif.

So when people tell me that Greeks drink more than anyone else . . . I always feel puzzled.

And then I find myself asking simple questions.

1. Isn't it true Greeks are human?
2. Isn't it true we recruit from the general population?
3. Isn't it true that the general college population that we recruit from tend to have
a certain percentage of drinkers?
4. Isn't it true that Greek organizations are for the most part Social organizations?
5. Isn't it true that the more people you group together the more opportunity for social events you have?
6. Isn't it true that when we are compared to groups in the media those groups aren't equally social in nature? ( we seem to be compared to that seemingly ever growing population that drinks not at all)

7. Is it not true that Greeks are just easy to single out because their letters make them less faceless than the rest of the college community?

8. Is it not true that our society is famous for finding scapegoats?

9. Is it not true on another post here about rebellious pledges we suggested making an example of ONE of them?

10. Is it not true that administrations across the country can make it look like they are successfully waging a war against drinking by making an example of a highly visible segement of the population?

11. Is it not true that Greeks usually act as the whipping boys for the actions of all our peers . . . because we wear letters and our names are on lists?

12. Because finally, isn't it true that Greeks are held to a higher standard by the administration of schools than that of their partying peers on campus?

I have been to larger parties by independants, than I ever have for a Greek organization.

Fine, we need to accept the consequences of our actions whether the consequences are fair or unfair, but we don't have to abuse ourselves and start identifying with the people that are stereotyping and categorizing us.

On a personal level its like being in a negative relationship and beginning to believe the bad things people say about you and then start repeating those things to yourself.


I don't mind being victimized or abused by other peopl'e generalizations, but I see no reason to HELP them do it! Life is you against your adversary . . . and if you are not on your own side . . .

The same thing goes for us as greeks, are we truly on our own side, or are we abusing ourselves in reponse to the pressure from the outside so that we come to merit abuse?

The media doesn't have to censor us anymore . . . we have become so
hypersensitive to issues that we are harder on ourselves than others would be. I don't think this is maturity, I think its fear.

The gauntlet (challenge) that I am throwing down in front of all of you is
to think outside the box. And not always believe the press releases.

You cannot legislate morality or life decisions, all you can do is try and
shape them and give the benefits of experience . . .

Telling people not to drink is moronic . . . setting up a designated driver system is a victory because you have just shaped a behavior.

Dry houses mean people going OFF campus to drink . . . and die driving or
have more trouble getting home . . . however it does transfer liability from the institution.

If you are going to have bid day/initiation day drink beer or wine . . . its so much harder to drink yourself to death with those two . . .

Want a tamer formal? Don't allow shots . . . or restrict hard alcohol completely.

As far as the age concept. In this case I am referring to age as a state of mind . . . and one of the reflections of an aging state of mind, is to try and create more controls and allow less random variables, and also to be more focused on what can go wrong than what can go right. Caution to a fault if you will.

Would you try and stop an oncoming flood (human desire) head on? Or would it be more practical to try and shape a river's course.

But in our cases the people on the sidelines (non-greeks) are screaming at us to get out there and just stop it or make it go away . . .

That is certainly not going to happen with more rules. Legend has it that during the time of Ghengis Khan a naked virgin with a bag of gold could ride from one side of his empire to another without fear of molestation. Such was the fear of the consequences. After he died they went back to armed caravans.




[This message has been edited by James (edited May 03, 2001).]

James - GREAT POST!!! all very true!