Need some help here
 

We have decided to break away from the school (Alpha Chapter, not Beta Chapter), and are no longer pursuing being affiliated. Rather, we are pushing to go through the town.

*We no longer need any help, this is just an update thread for those wanting some questions asked*

I'm guessing it is your school that is actually forcing you to join IFC, not IFC itself. (I'd wager that the other IFC fraternities could care less if you joined or not since you are appealing to a different sort of student.) Unfortunately, yes, the school can do this.

If you are operating as a purely social fraternity, co-ed or not, you should not allow your members to join other social fraternities.

It was not the school, it was an IFC member at a meeting. And this fraternity is for promoting Greek life and academics. If a member joins us and their GPA is not in the Nationals standards we still take them, if later on after we've helped them improved we have no problem with them wanting to join another group. This being said, we'd hope members would be loyal and not want to co-join. But, we don't want to stop them from joining a National either if they decided later on that they wanted to.

You need to figure out exactly what's going on. Based on your other posts (and on your FB page), you're in the process now of being approved by the school, or have just gotten approval. Is the IFC member speaking on behalf of the school? On behalf of IFC? Saying what he thinks ought to happen? Just confused?

Speaking of confusion:

I'm a little confused. This sounds like you see yourself as something other than a social GLO, but in your earlier posts, you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder (Post 2186484) I am one of the founders of Sigma Kappa Xi. We are a brand new local fraternity here at Hanover College . . . . Why did I and a few other people create a local? Well, long story short we did not find a sorority here that we fit into, so we created one for everyone in our situation! After talking with Greek life and chatting with several fellow students it was also determined that we should be the first ever co-ed here at Hanover! Needless to say we are very excited and are looking forward to becoming the newest Greek member at Hanover.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΣKΞFounder (Post 2186495) . . . I do assure you that I have been in close works with Greek life and with the student body here, and from the numbers we already have along with the support of Greek life, our winter rush is looking better than the four nationals sororities and five national fraternities here on campus :) Well we'll be close in rush numbers with Sigma Chi from the looks of it at the moment. But I have nothing against any of the chapters here, just did not feel like I belonged in any of them. And I discovered other people felt the same way, so we got together and hatched this idea to start a local.

It sounds to me like you are founding a social, co-ed fraternity that will compete with (in terms of rush) the IFC fraternities on your campus and seek to be viewed as comperable. Under those circumstances, it seems to me to be quite reasonable to think you should belong to the IFC.

Granted, IFCs are typically mostly made up of fraterniities that belong to the NIC, but that is not always the case. One of the national fraternities on your campus (and in its IFC) is not a member of the NIC or, so far as I know, of any other umbrella conference. My fraternity is not a member of the NIC but is part of the IFC on many campuses.

Nor is the co-ed aspect necessarily determinative. There are (NIC) fraternities that allow their chapters to be co-ed, and so far as I know, those chapters are usually if not always IFC members.

Just based on your posts, it sounds like maybe you need to be clear (in your own minds and with your Greek Life office) about exactly what kind of organization you'll be and how you'll fit in with the rest of the campus, and talk with your GL office about what that means IFC-wise.

We actually have a chapter that makes a point of always trying to elect a woman for IFC representative.

Well we at first were having no problems out of the school/other Greeks....but then we had a change in Greek life and things went down hill. So, we basically said we were no longer interested in being affiliated with the college and are instead pursuing recognition through the town. We are basically just waiting for our Inc. papers now so we can turn them in with our request.

Wait, what? You're seeking recognition from the town? Why? And why would a town recognize a fraternity? :confused:

OP, I'm trying to stand in your shoes here. I was part of the beginning of a colony of a major national NIC affiliated group (as evidenced in my signature below). I recall not having clue #1 as to how we were supposed to interact with IFC (even though we were members by default and design), let alone with the community as a whole.

No offense, but it appears you guys are really flying blind on this thing. It seems really unclear what you are offering. How is it different from say... Circle K or Rotary?

I just don't get what you're trying to be here.

The only place we are applying with the town is, is at Alpha chapter. Why? Because Greek life refused to let us have our constitution the way it is. They wanted to make us change what made us, us. And in doing so, be exactly like every other Greek member on campus. So, we said no. Instead, we will be a Fraternity that has members from the college campuses located near each other. Our other chapter, is fully recognized as a Greek member and was not forced to change the constitution. Our prospective Gamma colony also does not have to change the constitution. From this point on, we will only be opening chapters that do no have to alter the constitution in order to "be like everyone else". The only reason this chapter will be opening through the town is because we already have members and need a place to go so we can meet and continue to recruit. I do know how to interact with IFC and tried, but we DO NOT want to change what makes us, us, and refuse to. There is a lot more to the story, but this is the simplest version.

And, we are not a store and do not sell anything. We are a Multicultural Fraternity that is joining the NMGC in two years (when we have the Gamma up and running). We have our constitution, we have our rules, we have our rituals, we have our beliefs, we have our academic stance, and we have our ties with other Greeks like Phi Sigma Chi and others in NY that we openly talk with and they openly help us. Our situation at the Alpha chapter is just, a little special. IFC refused to listen to us and what we believed in, so we refused to conform. But, at our other chapter, no problem at all. Welcomed with open arms and helping hands. Just the way it goes sometimes.

Towns and cities recognize Greeks as long as they are helping the town/city :) I have one in my home town as a matter of fact that is full of wonderful people who give out scholarships every year to the high schools in the area. Sometimes, life throws you lemons and you make lemonade. This is just with Alpha chapter, no other chapter. Beta Chapter is recognized and accepted without changes to our constitution as will the Gamma Colony if it is opened up. It has been decided that from this point on, only new chapters that the core of our constitution is not changed will be able to open. Here, we already have members and people wanting to join. So since we are not affiliated with the college, we need a place to go for meetings and so we can recruit. It is the only way for the Alphas now. But, if one day the college decides to not force the changing of our core values, then yes, we would be glad to be affiliated at the college.

That's not quite accurate. You have to sell membership as something which is desirable. To be able to do that, you need a why. Here's a good TED talk on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOlfsR7SMQ

That aside, when dealing with municipalities, at least in my home state, YMMV. Some may recognize you as a civic organization. Others, such as the town we have our chapter home in, require Greek orgs to have chapter facilities which are held to the same safety code as multifamily housing. We must, for example, have fire suppression systems installed and at least two ways out of every bedroom and an ADA compliant suite. We also have to be within a certain geographic zone and must be recognized by the school.

Other towns are probably a lot more laissez-faire. If I was in your shoes, I'd get in touch with the town's code enforcement people, explain your situation (probably not a good idea to volunteer your address) and see what they say.

If it comes down to having to make a pitch to some sort of governing body, I'd sure want to be able to answer the "why" question as well as be able to sell yourselves.

Of course, every town has civic organizations, and every town has groups—civic organizations or otherwise—that the town allows to use town property as meeting space, as long as certain criteria are met. That's nothing new.

But I've never heard of a town "recognizing" a fraternity or sorority in the same way that a college or university "recognizes" student groups. That's the concept that's throwing me—"recognition," which suggests some level of approval and oversight, permission to function even, not just equal access to facilities.


But that's not recognition of a fraternity per se. That's a housing code. The town isn't approving the operation of the chapter, just the building its members live in.

And if the reason they're going to the town is meeting space, I'm guessing there's no house involved.

Yeah, I'm not clear as to whether he's looking to house anyone. I mean if he wants to go rent a suburban storefront and have that be a meeting place, I doubt he'd have any problems doing that.

If, on the other hand, he wants to house 20 people and have meeting space, that's a whole different ball of wax. I don't think he's being very clear as to what this alpha chapter even is... it's a student organization... but it's not. It's a fraternity, but they don't want to be recognized as one by the school.

And in my city, for Greek houses to fall under the Greek House exception in the city code, we have to live within certain boundaries and have to be recognized by the school.

Lol. I'm thinking this person thought you were talking about THIS Circle K: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_K

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Anyway, there seem to be a lot of elements missing from this story, so it comes off very confusing. I don't have any experience with a local council requesting changes to constitutions -- I've heard of "if you want to join, you need to do X, Y, and Z" but never "You're required to change this thing or you aren't real Greeks" -- so that seems very odd to me. Also, I don't get this "registering with the town" business.

OP -- Do you all have an advisor? As Kevin said, it seems like you all may be confused about 1) what exactly you want your organization to be viewed as and 2) how to go about getting yourselves there. Maybe someone with some Greek or university experience can help steer you in the right direction.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=knight_shadow;2242837]Lol. I'm thinking this person thought you were talking about THIS Circle K: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_K

Nah, this one: http://www.circlek.org/home.aspx

I'm confused as to what help you need. You haven't asked a question or expressed what this need is. We've gone around and around about a point that WE are confused about, but what exactly do YOU need help with?

The first post (from December) originally asked for help about how to deal with the Greek Life Office and IFC. Some quotes from the original are left in my first post in the thread. But you'll notice the first post was edited two days ago, and that edit was basically a "never mind, we're seeking recognition from the town instead," which started the questions on our end.

Yea, I am familiar with it, but with the store reference, I think he was confused.

I see we are still not back up to speed on QFPing. Thanks for catching me up.

She :) and no, we will be requesting use of one of their buildings for meetings, and no we will not house nor do we want to. It's part of our constitution that houses not be required and no one be forced to live in house, if a house is so desired. We want to be recognized by the school, but they want us to change what makes us, us. Yes, there are all the requirements for a Fraternity there, but, they do not like our core constitution. It is nothing bad at all, and as a matter of fact, we believe they have a problem with it because we proved them wrong on a key point in their system that we believe is faulty. If you would like to know what it is you may message me, because for the most part, our constitution is not public. We do show it to those who inquire about it though because our constitution is not secret, but we don't advertise it either.

Yes, we have an adviser, yes we have a Greek affiliated person helping us, and like I said ALPHA chapter is the only chapter doing this. Beta is fully recognized and affiliated. Gamma colony will be the same, if it is opened. If it is opened, it will be when I travel to NY for spring break. We have tried, and tried with the school and they refuse to listen to us and we have been told to our faces that we aren't a real fraternity by Greek leaders here and mainly just because we are not part of any Nationals and have no "history". I pointed out to them that when their org started, they had no history and were probably not associated with any Nationals as well. And they usually walk away at that point. It's just a game of locals versus nationals here. So, like I said, JUST Alpha chapter having issues. And yes, we have help with everything we are doing by other, older, individuals who do know what we have to do. Just waiting on our Inc. papers....still....and we will be joining the NMGC within a few years after we get a few more chapters/colonies open because we will have to have more insurance when we join them.

Yes I was, because I have worked at a circle k and it is a gas station here.....

Sorry about the confusion! This is a really old post and I've been trying to just answer the questions others have about the changes.

We get that it's just Alpha chapter. What we're not understanding is the idea that a fraternity or sorority would be "recognized" by a muinicipality, unless "recognized" in this context means something different from what it means when a school recognizes a GLO.

As far the counter that other chapters on campus were probably not associated with national orgs when founded—maybe, maybe not. Unless the chapters started as locals that were absorbed by national groups, they likely started as colonies of national orgs.

I meant when their org first started out, as in from the beginning, not the chapters. And what we mean by recognized is registered as a Non-profit with the town and recognized as such. (We are a non-profit GLO waiting for out Inc. papers, still.) And like I said we are also Multicultural and plan on joining NMGC when we expand more so we can afford the insurance we need. I've inquired about it and all chapters are ready to expand and grow. We are starting our own National chairs for our Fraternity this winter term. Positions and who won the election for those positions will be posted once it is determined.

So simply registered as a non-profit org, not as a fraternity. That makes more sense. Thanks.

We are still with our Beta and we are still Greek. Just because the Alpha's are having issues does not mean they should be cast out from the Fraternity. We do not believe that is right. We just received our papers today and we are officially Sigma Kappa Xi Multicultural Fraternity Inc. and we are all very proud and excited to be a non-prof Inc. fraternity.

So you've gotten your 501 C 7 Letter of Determination from the IRS?

Congrats on your incorporation! I am an incorporator of Gamma Xi Phi. :-)

You don't need to have a determination letter to be incorporated or refer to yourself as nonprofit. One should have plans to get one eventually, but they will get that done on the time frame which works for them.

ETA: For the record, I am not saying that it is proper or legal for them to pretend to have a tax-status that they do not have or to accept donations or apply for grants meant for 501 (c)(3) organizations. I am saying that the tax determination letter is not the most important thing for a young organization. Incorporation is good, getting a (c)(7) or (c)(10) tax designation is a nice goal, as is trademarking the symbols and securing insurance. When you're a small organization of limited means, you take one thing at a time.

One can identify as a nonprofit org on the local/state level without having a federal designation.

And finally, ΣKΞFounder, this is not the forum to discuss your organization's aspirations or issues. Please send me a private message if you want, but I strongly advise you to not answer any more questions or ask for advice in this forum. Everyone here is not a friend.

Oh, I agree. In fact, one must first file locally (and it's usually with the county, not the city) and get an EIN which one will need to file the 1024 (or 1023 if they want to be a C 3) with the IRS to get the letter of determination which they will need to file their 990 tax return. I've done quite a few. I was just trying to figure out exactly what he meant.

She meant that ΣKΞ has been incorporated (by the state, I would assume) as a not-for-profit corporation.

Congrats ΣKΞFounder, and good luck!

Well good luck to all of you and congrats on the early strides. Don't fret too much about your Alpha Chapter. Sigma Nu's Alpha chapter was shuttered by the Virginia Military Institute when they banned fraternities in 1885 and we've done pretty well since then. Our Alpha chapter doesn't really function as a chapter though. It's more of an honorary organization which inducts the top Seniors in the Fraternity every year. Obtaining membership is kind of a big deal.

That's neat.

We do have our papers :3 and we are looking into insurance. It is so expensive though! We are taking things one step at a time because we are small now, but that does not mean we are not mighty! We are hoping to have insurance in two to three years.

That is a very neat idea. I have not really thought about maybe having an Alpha "chapter" as an honors chapter. If the community standing does not work, I might see about starting something similar as long as Sigma Nu does not take offense of us potentially starting something similar.

I noticed! Locals get a bad rep but I am perfectly happy with being who we are! I try not to post anything much on here anymore. But I will get on and browse/answer to a post if it needs to be addressed.

Pretty much all of us have stolen ideas from one another or from the Masons, etc. over the years. Not a big deal, IMHO.