Is helicoptering making kids less able to socially adapt to new situations?
 

So I'm a cross-poster here and on College Confidential (hereafter referred to as CC) and have noticed some pretty common themes across both boards: kids have having a really difficult time adapting socially to college...and it doesn't seem like just freshmen either. I'm not just talking 1-2 people, I'm talking 11 posts on the first 2 pages of the 'college' threads. I see a lot of kids over on that board saying 'I don't talk to my roommate or have any friends or whatever, maybe I should join a fraternity/sorority' and then not understanding why they don't find success. I'm all for joining Greek life to expand your social horizons, but I'm not all for thinking it is a panacea

I don't really feel like this was a problem when I was a college student (2007-2011), but helicopter parents didn't seem to be as big of a problem then either. I'm wondering what you guys think about this and if you think helicopter parenting might be to blame. My dad never let me whine about not having friends, I was told to go do something about it...not something you see a lot with the helicopter generation.

I thought this could be an interesting discussion that's different from the helicopter parenting thread from awhile back...the impact on the poor kids!

Helicopter parents are most definitely enabling their children to become social cripples. That, coupled with all the electronic devices to which this generation is attached, are severely limiting the desire to interact with their peers through face-to-face conversatons. Just my opinion, but it seems the collegians today are much more self-centered than in our day, as well.

I think these concerns existed among students when I was in college in the late 90s; it is just that now the internet is providing a forum for people to broadcast their concerns. I did not have helicopter parents; rather, mine were more of the free range variety, and I still had some anxiety about different experiences during college. It takes people time to adjust to new situations, particularly when they are on their own for the very first time, navigating new experiences, friendships, opportunities and disappointments. Helicopter parents are annoying, but they've always existed in some form. Now they have the internet to allow them to hover more broadly.

ETA: every generation feels that the one below them is going to hell and complains about their lack of respect, their lack of work ethic, their different social norms, etc. This is nothing new.

I don't know if it is helicopter or just more simply that kids social lives are structured practically from birth. Once upon a time a group of neighborhood kids wanting to play a game of baseball would have to first go mow a field, then find random objects to serve as bases, and other random objects to serve as the score board, decide amongst themselves who would play what position, etc. This utilized all sorts of creativity, planning, and executive functioning, not to mention collaboration by the neighborhood kids.

Now, kids join playgroups, kids play organized sports where all of the above elements are done FOR them and not BY them, and summers have turned into endless structured activities as well. I don't think that is the exact definition of helicoptering that we have come to know. I think parents can sign their kids up for all these structured events but still not be hovering.

When kids grow up this way, it should be not surprise that they then turn to organized groups on campus for their socialization. They haven't really ever just been thrown into a social situation and had to figure it out.

Is it possible that there are the same number of kids having trouble adjusting to college and making friends, but forums are more available and popular for them to seek out help?

I think it is this. I was pretty miserable my whole first semester of college. I'd had the same really good friends for 10+ years. I'd been involved in lots of activities in high school. I got to college and knew 3 people on the whole campus. I was kind of lucky that one of them was one of my best friends from high school (male) and his roommate, who was my boyfriend at the time. They kind of showed me the ropes around campus. But, that first semester, I was still pretty miserable because I missed my female friends a lot. The ones who knew your whole life story and loved you anyway. I missed the privacy of having my own room to just "be" when I wanted to just "be". I was on a pretty big campus (25,000) and felt pretty isolated, like I didn't have a niche. That did all change when I joined my sorority.

I think Hypo has adjusted faster than I did but her dorm floor is pretty tight already. My dorm floor wasn't like that. The texts I got that first night though... they broke my heart! "I'm really overwhelmed and I don't know how to make friends." She got over it pretty quickly though :)

ETA: I just changed jobs last year, after 11 years in the same department with the same group of people, some of whom became really good friends. The first few months in my new job were tough too. I think it takes time for most people when you take them out of their comfort zone and put them in a new situation.

There have ALWAYS been kids whose parents were a zillion miles up their ass and didn't give them time to have a free moment. I think the technology anod other things are honestly more to blame. I mean...we didn't have cable TV in our dorm rooms, we HAD to go to the TV room to watch anything more than the campus cable access. Single rooms were VERY rare...basically you got stuck with your roommate and that was it. 2 large bathrooms for 60 girls on a floor. Now almost everything is "suite style." You never need to go into a large common area, and many parents/kids demand single rooms.

Kids have been watching The Real World for umpteen years and see those idiots playing to the camera and saying "I love you!" and acting like best friends 20 minutes into the first episode. They think that's what living with others is like.

I definitely think part of it is the more ubiquitous nature of online forums, don't get me wrong. I guess I feel like I never knew kids with 'executive functioning disorders' or who really vocalized when they didn't feel like they fit in. Maybe it was a product of my upbringing, but even when I was bullied a a college freshman, I just dealt with it and found a new group of friends. I totally understand the whole having trouble making friends at first, but to as a sophomore or junior have made 0 friends...? It just seems so off

I just feel like the structured nature of helicopter kids makes it so hard for them to learn how to function on their own. When they don't fit in or are struggling with classes, their parents want to come fix it. It completely baffles me!

I think kids are more open to going far away to school now than maybe they were a generation ago, and that can make for a more challenging time adapting. I went to school about 1 hour away, as did probably 50 kids from my school - to the same university. When 90% of your student population is from within 5 hours of the school and you are within that group, cultural norms are going to be a lot more similar (and thus easier) to what you've grown up with. Plop Midwestern smallish town kid into Bama or NYU or Pepperdine and there are going to be a lot of challenges beyond just education. And vice versa. The kid who grew up at 50th and 5th in New York is going to have a real culture shock and difficulty making friends at Iowa or Texas State or Coastal Carolina.

I'm all for kids expanding their horizons, but possibly they're not being counseled enough on how to adapt to a new environment.

I am part of a FB group of parents where my son attends college. The fwap, fwap, fwap is deafening. My son is very shy and he goes to school in a different part of the country. I told him before he left to make sure he was outgoing and inviting people to eat with him, etc. I just saw him this past weekend and he has adjusted beautifully. I don't monitor his every move or call him everyday. Contrast that with the other parents in this group who lament that their child has no friends, sits alone in their room on a Saturday night. They have talked about getting their kids together. Play dates all over again. It is time to cut the cord people. At some point Mommy/Daddy are not going to be able to take care of every nuance of your life. All 3 of my kids are in college, no one has any hometown friends at school with them. They have made friends and moved forward. Did I have a part in it? Absolutely Not!

This^^^
At my HS you either went to A&M, UT or Tech. I went to college with most of my best friends from high school so I really didn't need to make new friends (but I did:)). I will admit, I had a helicopter mom-I think I turned out ok:D.

You may never have known those kids, but as others have said, they've been around for a long time -- both kids who have a heard time making friends and kids with helicopter parents. (We didn't talk about helicopter parents, of course -- we said that their parents "hovered" or were over-protective or too involved.)

I knew quite a few of both when I was in college 30 years ago -- there's absolutely nothing new about it. What's new are things (like technology) that can have the effect of exacerbating the problems, that can make us more aware of these problems or make them seem more prevalant, or that can give people a "safe environment" to talk personally about these problems and thereby make it seem more acceptable to talk about it elsewhere.

I think this has to do with a lot of different things. Electronics is a big one. Most kids don't go out and play around the neighborhood any more they text each other or play video games as compared to what I experienced. Kick the Can, King of the Hill and Hide and Seek in the Summer. Sledding all day every day in the snow in the winter. My kids would sit and watch tv or play video games all day every day if I allowed them. These kids, in my opinion, don't know how to talk because they always text even if they are next to each other. Can you imagine a texting recruitment. ha ha!!

This!

We recently hired a few temps at my company, and I was basically heading the project with which they were involved. They ranged in ages from about 19-23. One day I was just chatting with them, and I asked them if they ever played some outside game (I can't remember which one), and they said they hadn't. I launched into this explanation and told them how I basically lived outside when I was a kid. My friends and I would go out in the snow at 8am, we'd come in around 2pm for some hot chocolate and a snack, then go right back outside for the rest of the day. I told them how we'd get to the bus stop early so we could play football.. And when we got home from school, we'd just drop our backpacks on the front lawn and be outside until dinner.

One of the temps turned to me and said, "Yea, but when we were younger, we actually had the internet and had other things to do inside." A couple others nodded in agreement.

:eek:

The lack of interaction with other kids (or people in general) is astounding. We've had young people come to work at our company, usually on a temporary basis, and their parents work at the company as well. Any time they have an issue or a question, they go running to mommy or daddy. I've heard parents (my boss included) turn to their kid and say, "I don't know.. You need to go ask your manager." They don't know how to communicate.

I recently met a teacher (a friend of a family friend) who was talking to me about different ways that teachers are using technology in the classroom. Another teacher at her school was using iPhones and Twitter (I believe) so that students could answer questions in class. She explained that the teacher would allow everyone to use their iPhones, and any students who didn't have one would be given one when they were in class. When the teacher asked a question, she would post it online, the students would type their responses/analysis into their phones, and she would display the discussion on an overhead projector.. Or something more technologically advanced. Her reasoning behind this is to give the students who don't usually respond because they're too shy/don't like speaking up, the ability to post their thoughts and opinions.

I argued that you're hindering the students' ability to grow in the ways that they communicate (especially because they spend so much time already outside of class staring at their phones), but this teacher defended it. What say you, GCers?

Personally, I think technology is the bigger problem here.

You know, this gets said a lot, but I don't know how much truth there is to it. It's got just a little hint of "I walked three miles to school in 12 feet of snow" to it. :D

Sure, my kids would watch tv or play vidoe games all day if we'd let them. So would I have when I was their age. (Well, tv at least. I'm pre-video games, so for me, it would have been watch tv or read.)

And sure, there are some kids who really do nothing but sit around all day and never get out. But "most"? Hardly, from what I see.

And sure, kids text more than we ever thought possible. But with most of the kids I know, that doesn't translate at all into an inability to carry on a conversation -- something they learned to do before texting was an option for them.

I'm not saying technology doesn't present challenges; it does. And with some kids it presents more challenges than others. But I do think sometimes that we adults really blow those challenges out of proportion. Kids still ride bikes, play sports, do scouts and other clubs . . . .

As for the not spending as much time just playing outdoors in general, I think there are much bigger culprits at work there than technology, but that's another discussion.

I really like this discussion. Three generations of collegiate greek women in my family recently discussed the changes over time (50 years) of living in college. (I actually found out my mom did some pretty funny things in college that I would have never dreamed of!). Anyway, we all agreed we had similar feelings of insecurities, excitement, roommate situations and dreams while we were away at school. What my mother and I did not have was the instant technology to text, Skype, or whatever, if a problem came up. We had to handle it on our own, and seek out friends, etc. My mother had a house phone that had a time limit of 3 minutes a week to talk in a very public parlor. I had a hard-line phone in my room, but was only allowed to call on Sundays, or if there was an emergency, due to the long distance cost. Now, college kids have access to a parent (or vise versa) at a fingertip.
There are good and bad to both ways of growing up, but what I think what my daughter has had to learn, that was” built in” for my mother and I was giving things time. Time to think about problems on your own; time to work things out with people; time to get over being upset; time for friendships to build…etc. This current fluidity of information and contact is amazing, but can be quite overwhelming as well.

There was no TV during the day when I was a kid that I would have wanted to watch. There were only about 8-10 stations too. I can remember in the morning watching Sally Star but I can not even remember TV on at night for kids until the Brady Bunch and Partridge Family and they were on Friday night I think. My mother literally said to me every day "go out and play and don't come home until lunch"- not kidding.

I think that this is a really good point. My neices and nephews are busy from morning until night, sometimes attending practice for stuff BEFORE school and after school, and having to do homework late at night or at breakfast.

I grew up in the 70s/80s, when there was still little distraction (I recall having a tv that only had 13 stations, and only listening to AM on the radio). If it wasn't raining or cold, we were outside sunup to sundown. If it was raining or cold, we read, played "school" and "library" and had contests like "whoever is the quietest wins a prize".

If we said we were bored, my mom would offer to "give us something to do", which was usually something cleaning related. So we learned quickly to make our own fun.

We didn't get trophies "just for participating" and nobody was even guaranteed to be on the team! Aside from a few material gifts, birthdays were more about celebrating the person. I remember getting to pick dinner for that night always meant my favorite food - my mom's homemade pizza.

When I was under 10/11 years old, "rewards" for good behavior or grades weren't things, and they didn't cost a lot of money, they were experiences:

- getting to sit in the front seat of the car for the week (otherwise the four of us took turns
- getting to get my dad a soda out of the fridge and sipping whatever didn't fit into the glass (soda was a rare treat, and I used to put a ton of ice cubes in the glass so I got more)
- getting to pick which (homemade) treat my mother would make (brownies? her special-recipe chocolate cake?, etc.)
- staying up an extra half hour to watch tv with mom and dad
- getting to watch all of "The Wizard of Oz", "The Sound of Music" and "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" while my mom made popcorn - these were usually shown around Easter.

Now, nothing is special. You don't wait a year to watch a beloved movie. You join everything without having a particular talent or skill. It seems to make things less special. Kids don't know what to do with free time. They can't just sit and hang out. And as a result, parents are becoming that way, too - they have to be involved 24/7, keeping pace with other parents. It's sad.

Has anyone seen the documentary "Race to Nowhere"? It gives you a sense of how over programmed and pressures put on kids. Many of which say they don't have time to socialize or even go be a kid. Are these pressures stunting their socialization at a young age and then when they get to college, realizing, that socialization is far more important than previously believed.

I personally was an average student, not very coordinated so only did 1 sport, not musically gifted or anything like that. I have to say that I flurished in college because more emphasis was put on being social to achieve both in the class room and outside in organizations.

My family also didn't believe in cable or nintendo (not that I cared about nintendo because again - zero hand eye coordination). I was always told to go out and play with the neighbors until it go dark.

This made me smile. That is exactly how I grew up. My favorite birthday dinner was spaghetti:). I have always done the special birthday dinner with my kids. AND Charlie Brown!!! My favorite especially around this time of year. I still get excited when I see the ad that it will be on. My kids don't get Charlie Brown at all. Shotgun! ha ha with the front seat and not wearing seat belts in the back. We NEVER had sodas but I drank A LOT of Hawaiian Punch. Bed Knobs and Broom Sticks was my absolute favorite but I also dug Herbie. The biggest treat for us as a kid Pizza! We NEVER went out to dinner EVER.

I have also noticed that these girls who go through recruitment are so sophisticated. My 18 year old self would have never gotten a bid today.

This is completely off topic, but...

My mom and I were talking the other day about how there doesn't seem to be any shows for the whole family to watch and enjoy anymore - shows with some good, wholesome comedy and life lessons here and there. I remember watching Family Matters, Full House, Boy Meets World, Step by Step, Hangin' with Mr. Cooper, The Fresh Price of Bel-Air, Home Improvement.. And I watched The Brady Bunch, The Partridge Family, Family Ties, Charles in Charge, Who's the Boss, Growing Pains, etc. in re-runs.

What happened to these?! And why don't they make more shows like them?

We had three stations, but by the time I got home there were cartoons (when I was younger) and shows like Gilligan's Island, The Beverly Hillbillies, Petticoat Junction, McHale's Navy, Hogan's Heroes, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, The Partridge Family, The Brady Bunch and (my two favorites) Batman and The Wild, Wild West on after school when I was older. I can remember watching all of those.


Exactly. Your mother sent you outside. (And I know you're not kidding, because my mother did the same thing.) Ditto the mothers who found chores to do when kids complained of being bored. It's not that tv [technology] kept us inside, it's that parents redirected us to something else. Computers, internet, video games, tv, etc. are just like anything else in life -- they are not intrinsically bad but children have to be taught how to use them responsibly. So, when children are playing video games instead of going outside, the video games aren't to blame. Blame responsible adults who aren't setting appropriate limits and aren't teaching better habits, or blame a culture that really doesn't support or value things like kids just going outside and playing for hours on end.

The reality is that in many if not most places these days, you won't find many parents who'd just say "go out and play and don't come back until lunch," and there are a variety of reasons, including some very valid ones, for that. We live in a different world today, and it seems to me that things like constantly playing video games are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.


Because all but two or three of those shows were either too vanilla or awful or both? :D

My daughter loves Full House. It makes my head hurt.

You're awful for saying such things!

:p

I just remember being so excited for Friday night tv with the family. What's on tv now that encourages families to spend a night together? Even if 'Full House' isn't your favorite, at least you know that it's something you would feel comfortable watching with your daughter.

I know. Ain't I a stinker? :D

Are you kidding? There's no way a show like that could work as a family tv night in our house. She watches it now and her brother comes in the room and asks why in the world she is watching "that awful show." I know it's not pc to say it, but I think that like most of those Friday night shows you listed, it's not a show that lots of guys are going to willingly watch.

No, I wouldn't have to worry about the language or suggestive situations. But that's just not enough.

Haha.. Well that's more what I'm getting at - the content of the show. I'm not saying you HAVE to watch 'Full House' .. Or maybe you do now because there aren't as many options for family shows as there used to be.

I don't know -- Disney channel is full of current equivalents of Full House. But as a family, we prefer things like The Amazing Race or Chopped, or DVDs of things like I Love Lucy or The Andy Griffith Show.

OP here--I completely agree with the structured thing! I was on the leading edge of that overly structured activity driven lifestyle...when I went to college, I was like woah, free time. I wasn't sure what to do with myself!

I just recently started my first 'big girl' job and came in with other kids roughly my age (year or two older or younger) and was shocked at both how they acted and how they dressed in a professional setting. We were set up in small groups with senior executives in our division for a lunch so we could ask questions, etc. One person introduced himself by saying "Hi, I"m XXX YYY and I've never worked in my life"...I had to pick my jaw off the table! I've actually had managers and my team lead tell me they actually respect me because I don't require direction every 30 seconds. Young adults are no longer self-sufficient, it seems like

Who remembers gathering as a family to watch "The Carol Burnett Show" on Saturday nights?!

Me, me, me, me!!!

What's wrong with shows like Modern Family, Glee, American Idol (and the likes)?

We did that "outside all day" thing until the Oakland County child killer started murdering kids. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland...y_Child_Killer for reference, if you aren't familiar. I was in 5th and 6th grade during the 13 month period that they found the four children. I lived in the next county but there were reports of a vehicle that looked like the vehicle they thought "he" drove (assuming male) in my neighborhood. From that point on, no kids were outside without being in sight of adults.

And, ultimately, I think that's what happened with kids playing outside. Fear of abduction. I know my kids only played outside when I could be outside watching them and that really cut in to their outdoor play time. By the time I got home from work, cooked dinner, cleaned up.. they didn't have much time to go outside before bed time. In the summer, at that time, we'd usually go swimming in our pool (I miss that pool!).

There are shows the whole family can watch together now. Back in my day, we watched whatever my dad wanted to watch. I remember The Waltons, All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Laugh In. My dad didn't like Carol Burnett so we didn't watch that. Some of y'all had a lot more channels than we did though! We only had 8 and that included the Canadian channel.

I also grew up with no cable, only 3 channels to watch but I loved watching TV. I started watching soaps with my mom and even resorted to taping them once I was in high school. I still watch them:).

I also find these days that people move around quite a bit (or so it seems). I grew up in a neighborhood where everyone knew everybody and all of the kids played together. Most of my neighbors had lived there for 20-30 years. It seemed no one moved. I felt safe and the parents felt comfortable with us being outside all day with no supervision.

I was very lucky that my mother was a stay at home mom until I was 12 and she was very involved in all of my schools activities. Most of my friend's mothers were also SAH moms, they all hung out together. Now it seems both parents are having to work and moving is quite common making it difficult for people to really get to know each other and their kids.

I also have noticed that the teenagers these days don't want to get their driver's license. I work with a couple of moms with 16-17 year olds who refuse to get their driver's permit. Heck, the day I turned 16 I was taking my driver's test and that very day got my car. I was never at home after that:). Anyone else noticed this? When I asked the moms about it-they thought it was strange too!

I also have a few friends whose kids do NOT want to get their driver's licenses. My kids were both anxious and excited to get theirs though. Then again, I have worked very hard to raise independent young adults. Wheels=freedom!

EEK AGDee-I read the wiki and that sounds absolutely terrifying! I wouldn't play outside either:(.

My dad use to make me watch Lawrence Welk-anyone else have to be tortured like this? I loved the Carol Burnett show!

Aww, that sounds so cool that you're keeping the tradition of Charlie Brown, even though they don't really get it.

And I agree with you as to how sophisticated young women are these days. My older nieces (14, 17, 17) are so glamorous (not necessarily being dolled up - I'm talking about even in sweatpants), confident, and not afraid to stand up for what they believe in.

One of my nieces was always really smart and clever, from the time she could talk. At 2 years old, she was able to sense when someone was laughing about something she did (not in a mean way, just thinking she was cute/silly/goofy). She had this other-worldly self-awareness and would say, "not funny" and walk away with her nose up. It was hysterical.

I think that it's because she was the "first" of the generation, she didn't grow up with "baby talk". Everyone spoke to her like an adult.

I disagree. The Disney Channel is full of shows with sassy teens/pre-teens who mouth off to parents and teachers, do whatever they want, and NEVER get in trouble.

At least in Full House, those girls did things wrong, but they got caught and grounded EVERY time. I have other reasons for disliking Full House - namely growing up with the maiden name Jessica Ripper (Jessie & the Rippers - haha - never heard that one!).

It really was terrifying, especially as an 11/12 year old.

As was mentioned above, it's a lot scarier to think about sending your child outside to play all day when you don't know your own neighbors. My mom was fine with me riding my bike up the street as everyone knew each other. It's not that way any more.

This being said, I still think there's a way to get kids together to play and then let THEM do the game thinking-up rather than everything being little league, soccer etc - something structured. I think they need to make all the unused Borders stores into playgrounds for kids in the front and wine/Clive Owen porn for moms in the back. :)

Depending on the age of the child, some parents may not be comfortable with some of the more adult content or language of these shows.

(And I just have to say, I think my wife and I are two of the only people in America who have tried a number of times to watch Modern Family and find just it boring and very un-funny.)

True. I was thinking more in terms of the lack of inappropriate content, but this is definitely one of the (many) downsides of Disney Channel shows.

Meanwhile, for a good look at why kids don't play (and free play) outdoors as much anymore, I highly recommend Last Child in the Woods: Saving Our Children From Nature-Deficit Disorder. (And since I think I remember a discussion about this book before on GC, I'll just go ahead and say: No the author isn't creating a new diagnosis called Nature Deficit Disorder. It's just a handy way of making a point.)