PNM's over age 25....(questions and some musings)
 

I was thinking about something over the last day or so.

I have noticed several other PNM's on GC who are going through recruitment who are age 25+ and have communicated with some of them over the past few months.

I haven't read a successful recruitment story for any of us yet...and while I've heard third-hand of women receiving bids elsewhere in years gone by, it's pretty much unheard of now. Still, it seems that women try and try again. I know that I did.

So, I'm wondering: why? (This is a question for those who are Greek)

I basically wanted to make friends for life with women who are also in the volunteering,dating, partying, drinking, toga party, studying kind of mode and I haven't found other women my age who are in "that place" in life. I was fortunate enough to bump into another person who is in that same place in life (although she could honestly do without the volunteer work) and we're living the College Girl lifestyle in our own particular fashion. Complete with watching Football games and screaming our voices hoarse and dressing up in our school colors and attire, watching SATC, Big Bang Theory and Two Broke Girls and doing each others nails.

We giggle when the Freshmen hit on us, and flirt right back. Hookups? No. Trying out dating for the first time? Yes.

I feel sort of caught in between what women my age are "supposed" to be doing, and how I feel and where I am in my life now: which is not the business world....yet.

Perhaps this is representative of our generation....I'm a solid member of Gen-Y and 18-29 has been all about finding ourselves until "real life" hits us and we're on our own and working until we retire.

Any other PNM's 25+ feel like this? Even more so, once recruitment ended and we were either released or did not receive a bid?

Someone (DubaiSis, I think) suggested to me that perhaps separating College Life from Social Life is the best way for me to go?

What do the other 25+ ladies think about such advice in reference to themselves? Is it something that you are considering? Are you planning to go through Informal or Formal Recruitment again? Why?

I don't mean to start an argument with this thread....but there was a lot that I've thought about....and I'm curious as to what others also think about this?

and to be brutally honest: being released from NPC Recruitment and from MGC recruitment still hurts a lot, constantly....no matter how brave a face I try to put on. I'm a very tough cookie....but no matter how much I try to smile and 'move on', I'm feeling the pain every day and have for weeks (in the case of formal recruitment) I just do a decent job of hiding it.

I know that others may feel the same way.

First, I'm really sorry things didn't work out with the sororities on your campus, and I encourage you to keep looking for campus activities with organizations that you will enjoy and who will appreciate all the wonderful contributions you will make.

Second, to answer your question. I will be blunt. Women I know who have been either seniors or mid-20s who received bids were very rare. Nearly all of the women I knew who were at the older side of the spectrum and had a successful recruitment came into recruitment with strong relationships with the sororities. Perhaps she was a senior who had VERY close Greek friends all along. Perhaps she was the head of the Homecoming Committee or a Miss (Insert Campus Name) here. Maybe she looked really young and conveyed similar interests to the chapter members and no one was aware she wasn't 18 or 19 years old. Older students are not the norm among PNMs at most campuses, even though there are plenty of nontraditional aged students in school. For example, I was an adviser to a chapter of my sorority when I was 23 or 24, and the girls thought of me as "old." So to be rushing in your mid 20's, especially if you're at a campus where younger members are the norm, the members may identify with you more as someone in a mentor capacity rather than as a peer. This is just my opinion.

Ok. All that being said, I don't know you personally, and I don't know why you weren't successful in recruitment or the culture on your campus. But I'm still going to offer a suggestion and probably not one that you want to hear. If I were to offer you any advice, I would suggest that you mourn the loss because it hurts like hell and to pursue some other type of activity on campus (which you are doing) that will bring you fulfillment. I know this is harsh consolation from someone who was in a social sorority to tell you to give up on it, but I've had plenty of rejection in my own life, and sometimes it is best to move forward than to keep beating a dead horse, for lack of a better phrase. You seem to have too many gifts to offer your university to let this sour you, and I genuinely wish for you to find the right niche on your campus or a community activity.

Thanks for your input. I'm

I also want to hear from other PNM's. Certainly seems to be a "meme" as one GCer mentioned....which is why I started this thread. lol.

I think adpiucf hit the nail on the head. The young ones think everyone over the age of 25 is ancient.

I'm sorry this didn't work out for you.

Check out my recruitment story....it DOES have a happy ending. And the closure I was looking for.

And for the most part, everyone over the age of 25 thinks that 18-22 year olds are way too young.

There's a HUGE gap even between your early 20s and late 20s. Although you may not see it now, if you were in a chapter, you'd probably notice it more.

I think it's just one of those things that is weird, so nobody wants to do it and be the weird chapter. A WRC takes a 25-year-old, and suddenly tongues are wagging that they are so desperate for members, they took a 25-year-old.

Even if there is nothing wrong with taking an older member, and she'd be a great sister, it's the same as taking an openly lesbian member or a married member. On some campuses, it's just fodder for the gossip mill and chapters want to avoid that.

Whoever the poster who asked me if I was thinking of "creating" my own sorority in some other thread.....I wasn't then and choosing the Greek letter equivalent of my University's Initials to hold close to my heart does NOT equal creating a sorority.....but I guess that going Greek was something that just wouldn't let go, as I figured out. I'll get over it in time...I'm sure....

Then again, I look at it as like this: Everyone who attends my school is forever known as part of the Wolf Pack Nation...we have lovely traditions and rituals....which I will remember forever. (I still have the half burnt candle from the Welcome Ceremony the week before classes began....and my T-Shirt from "Running of the Wolves" when all incoming students ran across the Football field before kickoff at the first home game.) and more still to come (I still look forward to going with my personal plan to dress up the Mackay Statue like Santa Claus in Wolf Pack Colors right before the semester end....oops...that was supposed to be secret!) We all constitute our own Fraternity....and realizing that really lit up my mood.

I am beyond proud and crazy about my school....and look forward to the next two years.

I'll say it: The ladies in the Sororities on campus are wonderful: intelligent, quick witted, and just fabulous to be around. I'm sorry that it didn't work out between us.

My own real fear:

I mean, who in any of these outside orgs are going to want to talk with me about being in college and having fun, and staying up until all hours of the night studying and eating pizza at 3am and trying to get a guy to ask you out? They aren't there now. I'm wondering (and afraid) of having nothing connecting us except for my love of community service. Sure, I'm bright and vivacious and sweet....but I'm just not THERE yet.

Pardon the venting.

I was 23 when I joined AXiD.... but I was a colony member on a campus that (at the time) only 17% of the student body was female, there was only 1 other sorority on campus, and it was a largely commuter campus.

I was 26 when I graduated. I loved my sisters, and they loved me. But I was glad to be moving on. I know that my experience was unique and I KNOW that I wouldn't have had the opportunity anywhere else. I'm grateful that I had the opportunity, but the chances of my chapter recruiting a 23 year old college freshman right now is slim to none.

There was another woman... a 35 year old.... yes, 35 year old single mother who colonized with us. She never initiated. Why? I think alot of it had to do with the fact that every time we (the colony) tried to plan something she always had this excuse of "I can't come to that, I have my daughter to take care of." and.... I think she finally realized that it was time to be a mother instead of trying to be something she wasn't. No, you're not a single mom, but the chapters may have reservations about how much effort your could and would put into it. They KNOW that someone in their late 20s is eventually going to have other commitments (work, relationships, family, etc) that will become excuses to not make the sorority a priority anymore. I hated when members had excuses for why they couldn't fulfill their obligations to the chapter. I can't blame a chapter for not wanting to take someone on that may be a perceived risk, whether that fear is warranted or not.

That's why you continue to explore organizations on campus until you find one that fits you. All the things you are talking about--the staying up late and having fun and studying-- those are things to do with college friends, and friendships don't form overnight. Ask any sorority woman and she'll tell you her fellow sisters were not (and are still not) instant BFFs, so don't look at this setback as an omen that you're not going to have that traditional college experience. You will, but you have to put yourself out there and eventually the friendships will fall into place. Community service orgs aside, what else interests you? Is there a student government organization? How about a campus activities board? There's bound to be a Homecoming Committee that needs assistance. Keep going to meetings for various activities on campus. You'll continue to meet people, contribute to campus life, and have fun.

True!True!True!

Maybe I haven't run into the places where the fun late twenties singles spend their time yet. I've only been in town for a little over a month....there's lots of months left to meet people. I'm not going to meet them at the College area bars though....as my new buddy "Miss Food Court" likes to say: "They're either under 25 or over 50 and trying to hit on the under 25's!".

We've hit a total of one bar that isn't a "college bar", and which I prefer to the "college bars" for many reasons, and my best friend (who is a guy and moved into town for a job right before I moved here....and without whom I'd have already cut bait weeks ago and run back to my hometown screaming my head off!) and I have hit another bistro and bar on the other side of town that we both like.

Time to broaden my horizons a little.:p Maybe some Salsa dancing on Friday?

It really depends on the school. We had a sister who pledged when she was 23 or 24. She had entered the military right after high school and had to wait until her hitch was over to attend college. No one thought anything of it or considered it "weird." Then again, there were also active members in most of the chapters (fraternity and sorority) who were 22 or over. People often needed the extra years to complete school due to financial reasons.

Also, none of these older members ever pulled the "I'm older so I know more" or "I have family obligations" garbage. If you did that, no matter your age, your butt was out of there. I have the feeling the woman in amanda6035's example's main problem was not her age or her daughter, but her inability to prioritize. She probably had the same problem at age 18 and would have been saying "I can't come to the event because I have to see my boyfriend that night."

If you're at a school where very few undergrads are over 21-22 in general, it's going to be very hard to rush a sorority.

Personally, I find the concept of what happens at many "traditional" schools - that is, dozens of people dropping out before their senior year and Greek activity as an upperclassman looked on as odd - far more something for schools/chapters to be ashamed of and far "weirder" than taking a 27 year old, but different strokes for different folks. :rolleyes:

I am so sorry things didn't work out for you and I know how horrible you must feel because any kind of rejection isn't easy. I'm not sure if coming back to Greekchat is necessarily the best thing to help you move on.

I go to a very traditional campus with a well known and strong Greek life. Even if I didn't, I know a lot of sorority members at a wide range of schools and I have to say it would be really awkward to have someone your age as a sister no matter where I went to school. You said in your early post that you are in your late 20s and you are already a junior. That would make you 30ish by your final year and you would only have two years to bond. Even though you are still in college, you're living in an entirely different place. You know what you said about the college bars? Well that's sort of what it would be like for you at mixers and other social events, just as awkward for you as it would to have you around. You seem old to someone my age. I don't mean that in a mean sense or that there's anything wrong with your age, it's just perspective. I wouldn't want to hang out socially with my own younger real sisters either.

Honestly even though philanthropy and all the other things that are talked about here are an important aspect of who we are, it's not really the biggest part of it. We're social and most importantly we're looking for others who will fit in with our individual chapter personality. I think everyone has been right in suggesting other outlets for social and philanthropy both on and off campus. You probably need to get involved with something else to take you mind off all of this.

By the time I was in my late 20s I had graduated, took a couple years off sorority life, joined the alumnae chapter, held officer positions, became an advisor, got burned out on it all and decided to take more years off.

When I was an advisor in my mid 20s I felt soooooo old at events. I was there to chaperone, advise, and guide. Not party. If anything went down, I was the adult. The girls saw me as old-ish at least. To the freshman and sophomores I must have seemed ancient. To the seniors, I was the sympathetic ear that understood their own burn out. When 21-23 year olds are "over it" you can't quite comprehend why someone over 23 would want in on those experiences.

My chapter did pledge a woman who was a lot older but nobody realized it until after bid day. She came off as young and apparently age must not have been on the rush application. (Our advisors at the time never ever would have knowingly let that happen.) Everyone loved her and she was initiated but she did not return to the chapter after the end of the year. She worked, had a long commute, and a fiancee. She realized her priorities were elsewhere. We all understood completely.

I see things a little more like 33girl stated. (Maybe it is because we are from the same neck of the woods!) My college didn't have a wide age range, but it was not unheard of to have older pledges--especially among the fraternity men.

When I first became a volunteer for ASA, I worked with a chapter that had a woman in her mid-forties. She was serving as chapter president when I met her. She was absolutely loved by her chapter, but there was no doubt that she was in more of an advisor role than anything else. I'm sure she did not have the "typical" sorority experience--whatever that means. She was able to come into a sorority, experience the rituals and traditions and friendships, but she didn't seem to want or expect all of the stuff that usually comes with collegiate membership. She had children, a husband, a job, and a home nearby, but she devoted her free time to ASA like other people might be devoted to the YMCA or their church or the PTA. She made it work, and I was so impressed by the way the younger sisters accepted her. It was a period of real growth for the chapter!

So like 33 basically said, something like that was fine at that school but would be DEATH to a sorority somewhere else.

I think it depends on the "typical age" of Greek life at your school.
I went to a big midwest school with huge greek life. It was considered "weird" even for people who were in their fifth year (due to majors or something) to be involved in the GLO. at our school, it was definitely 22 and out.
I think that you were just trying to make an experience happen that, unfortuately due to life situations, you had already missed.
Greek Life at your school was clearly not one of the situations (like some posters described above) where older students could join.
I do hope that you have adjusted to college and realize that eating pizza, dating and going out are not limited to GLOs. And, unfortunately, you are in the minority at most schools- being 28, single, ready to party and get involved. I think you may just need to make your own niche instead of trying to fit into someone else's.

Hey tigerivy,
I don't know how it ended up that way, but I've made several friends (mid to late twenties who are all single and live in the dorms) via the person I met in the food line, and they introduced me to the GLO interest group on campus that we're all busily involved with. On top of the other activities that keep me busy and involved here.

We do lots of the things that I had wanted to do with others, and I don't feel so "out of the loop" as I did in retrospect trying to stuff myself into among the Traditionally aged students and we all have past experiences that are relatively similar, which is comforting.

What a difference a couple of weeks makes. :)
About three quarters of our group consists of upperclassmen, and it's probably very unlikely with the situation that exists on campus (no GLO expansion for the foreseeable future) and for other reasons, that we'll end up as a colony for any GLO while our core group is still in Undergrad. I hope that will change for our Freshmen and Sophomores and those who become members in the years to come.

It is possible for the older PNM to get a bid, provided she is
Rich "Do you know where I can rent a garage space? I don't want to leave my Bentley out in the rain." or
Gorgeous " I know everone thinks being a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model is easy, but......" or
Famous " Winning a gold medal at the London games was the high point of my life." or even
Married " I am sure my husband would let us use his private jet for the new member retreat."

The jist is this:
Several groups on campus (I believe that there is more than three of them, and less than several) are interest groups for specific GLOs. As in, they would like to see XYZ GLO expand to our campus but Greek Life said "not right now". Greek Life and the Student Government (ASUN) told those who were interested in expansion for these various groups to form interest groups, and create their own community, and when the campus was interested in expansion, GL would make this known and whichever NPC, NPHC, IPC or other GLO's otherwise not under an umbrella org who were interested in expansion to our campus could present themselves and the interest groups would/could be chosen to become colonies. Or not. Either way, the groups exist, they aren't considered to be a part of Greek Life, but they probably will be in the future when the campus opens for expansion and are selected to colonize.

This is how at least two of the IPC GLOs on campus came to campus within the past several years, and some of the MCG GLOs as well. NPC, I don't know.....that was before my time.

The interest group that I was invited to join is an interest group for a specific GLO that has existed on our campus in the past. The group has been in existence and active for a few years now.

I don't know if this is the norm, but that's how it's done here. I know that the new service org that I joined is interested in re colonizing Alpha Phi Omega and APO National told them to form an interest group under a name of our choosing (We're Green and Blue Service Organization at the University of Nevada), become active, and then take things from there after that with APO with our school's authorization.

I hope that this makes sense.

Are you in an APO interest group AND an NPC interest group? Or is there no second group? Or is the second group non-NPC?

Because that's not how NPC expansion works, on any campus. I'd hate for you to think you were on the path to NPC membership.

APO interest group + Non NPC interest group.
Two separate groups.

Let me translate. GL and SG have told you and the others to do this in the hopes that you'll put all your energy into this and leave them alone, thinking you have an "in" if any new groups come. When actually, what they're doing is the equivalent of the Omegas putting you in the corner with Jugdish and Sirajul.

The fact is - and it's been talked about in several stories on here - there have been quite a few instances of 1) NPCs coming to colonize a campus, taking a second look at the interest group, saying "no thank you" and recruiting a different bunch of girls 2) NPCs coming to a school thinking they are doing a "ground up" colonization, being presented with an interest group they never knew about (because Panhellenic never told them) and telling all the women they have to rush as individuals....when the women were under the impression they would be accepted as a group.

I'm not sure what the "non NPC" group is, but I'm going to say if it's been around for years without coming to fruition, that's not really a good sign.

That was fast. It's been what, a few days, and you're already "Philanthropy Chair".

Hmmm. That's not something that I considered even being a possibility. That's really a shame. Why wouldn't GL be up front from the beginning? However, I can see why at the same time.

Since I accepted the Philanthropy Chair, and I believe in the group under its own merits and doings as a campus org, I'd love to remain and continue participating.

I don't want to start a fight: but do you guys think that I should bring up these points to the membership at an upcoming meeting.....or let things go on?

This is a fantastic group of ladies and they are doing a fabulous job as an org just being itself....and that may attract even a larger membership. However, a situation where people say "WTH? I thought that we'd become XYZ...this sucks!" and jump ship for Circle K or another campus org, leaving no org in its place would be a mess, I think.

Then again....our campus has over 200 organizations anyway....so, lack of choice isn't an issue. :)

First meeting of the year was last week, immediate elections. I spoke about my background and the volunteer events that I chaired and organized before moving to Reno before the membership....and it was like that.:o

Regarding these colonizations (or hopeful colonizations) happening from an interest group for a specific organization, I know it's not unheard of. At the University of California Merced--relatively new university--which was trying to get its Greek life up and running quickly, there were quite a few interest groups for specific NPC sororities. They had names reflecting characteristics of that group (ex: a group with angels in the name and wine as one of their colors). This was a couple of years ago, so I'm not entirely sure what the situation is, though regarding that specific group, I know that Merced doesn't currently have a chapter of Pi Beta Phi.

Does anyone know more about UC Merced Greek Life and could comment more on this interest group based colonization?

I don't know if that's the case here....our school has been around since the late 19th century and three of the five NPC GLOs were chartered several decades ago, with Delta Gamma and Sigma Kappa being the two most recent to come to campus, in 2002 and 2006.

Otherwise, I'm clueless.

See my PM on moving forward with Alpha Phi Omega.

33girl's post is squarely on point. Perhaps it's best not to focus on the remote, unknown possibility of a local interest group either affiliating with or being accepted as a "colony" by any national/international GLO. Rather, the membership of the local group might be best served by continuing to develop and do whatever it is that they have been doing that has permitted them to exist to this point in time.

A caution: don't get spread too thin or have expectations that will result in burnout and disappointment.

(The more you know)

I am not sure how to phrase this, but “generally speaking”, UC Merced is now operating like most other campuses in that they no longer have to create most aspects of student life.

As sigmagirl10 noted, UC Merced is the newest campus in the University of California system. UC Merced opened their doors in 2005 and every student organization had to be created “from the ground up”.

The first GLO (Delta Delta Delta) was charted from an interest group in 2009. 2009 also saw four other GLOs (Sigma Chi, Delta Gamma, Kappa Kappa Gamma and Sigma Alpha Epsilon) charter from interest groups. So at the time, the “interest group” to an NPC/NIC organization was used to “jump start” the Greek Community.

Since 2009, no NPC sorority has chartered at UCM. Lambda Theta Nu colonized in 2012 and I not familiar with their chartering process so I do not know if they started as an interest group or not.

Two IFC fraternities (Kappa Sigma and Omega Delta Phi) charted in 2011 (may have come from interest groups) and there is currently an interest group for Gamma Zeta Alpha.

I would like to note that that forming an interest group is one of the ways some fraternities might colonize. Being that UCM is still a relatively new college, I suspect that fraternities may continue to form via interest groups for the time being.

For what it is worth, there are some groups at UC Merced calling themselves a fraternity or sorority. However they are not viewed as interest groups by the University nor are they recognized by the University.

I went to a very small liberal arts college on the East Coast for undergrad. It had a large commuter population. We actively recruited everyone from transfers to seniors, and some of those seniors were 22+. I'm not saying that we had 35 year old Moms in our group, but it wasn't all freshman, either. It was a really interesting mix of all kinds of girls, all ages.

But then again, the school was very small and not very competitive.

I was in Greek honor societies in college and grad school as well. They are very special, with their own ceremonies and rituals, too. There is definitely a place for you. Best of luck!!!