Posting Badges from Ebay
 

Is posting badges to individual boards here a bad idea? Yesterday I posted on a couple groups' boards that a badge was up on ebay, so someone could hopefully go rescue it. I got a few thank yous, and one email that said I was publicizing badges being on ebay and that I was perpetuating the proliferation of badges to collectors through free advertising!

Do folks really think that?

I don't think that you are perpetuating the proliferation of badges to collectors through free advertising!

In all likelihood, none of us here on GC are independently wealthy and can afford to out-bid the die hard collectors on E Bay. However, by doing us this courtesy of letting us know about the badges on E Bay, we can then turn to our Nationals & notify them, , and in some cases, Nationals will address it, or try to bid for the badge themselves.

So, thanks shadokat!

Personally, I was very happy to see your post, shadokat. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, and I'm very grateful for the information! :)

You do good!:)

There are a few LXA who get our Badges off ebay to keep in our hands!

I know I have bougth 6!

Another one is vintagefraternitypins.com. Most of theirs are older but I bought 2 as gave me a break for buying both!

I know ASLANA is looking for a ASA Pin and I am still looking for her also!

I always check to se if a Brother is bidding and will not go up against them so not to raise the price!

Many people have gotten them from estate sales and have no clue what they mean to us, it is just money to them!

If you can get them!:)

I'm tired of seeing these same people win the auctions. I tried to get a very very old badge of ours the other day. I'm sure the people who were bidding on it had no idea that it belonged to a brother who graduated from Amherst in 1885. They only knew his last name. I know that because I have an old membership directory. All they see is another cool looking pin to add to their collection. We see it has a symbol of our fraternity and something that belonged to a dear brother of ours, and I want to bring it back to DU. But no, I don't have almost $400 to spend on it, makes me sick. Pins that old and that special are pretty rare, and this one is going into some bin with a bunch of other pins probably.

I think it's good that you post...I saw that same pin on Ebay that you posted to the KKG board, you posted just before I was going to.

It was in a recent issue of The Key (the Kappa magazine) that HQ has people whose job it is to surf the net and get our badges back at whatever it costs. Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to bid so high on a badge from an organization to which they did not belong unless they are mean and disrespectful and spiteful. When you post, it gives us a chance to get one of our badges back and preserve some Fraternity history.

Well, since Shadokat made this into a thread (and since she really didn't paraphrase my first email very accurately), I'll just paste my reply to her here. I'm the dissenting opinion she referred to.

***

Hi Shadokat,

Thanks for your reply.

I understand the intention of your posts very clearly. I think what you’re doing is very noble. But I also think your posts are a knee-jerk reaction that has long term repercussions. It’s pretty simple supply and demand. The more demand you stir up, the more dealers will hike the prices. Higher prices mean several things – harder for the “average member” or indeed the national HQ to buy one, more incentive for people to steal badges, more incentive for collectors to sell duplicates from their collections on ebay rather than returning them to the national HQ, etc.

I have watched and recorded closing prices and winning bidders on every GLO pin auctioned on ebay since it started in 1997. Both the number of badges on ebay and the average sell prices are increasing at the alarming rate of about 25% per year! You think that’s happening in a vacuum? No, it’s a rapid growth in demand spurred on partly by this “sky is falling” panic response that you often see on greekchat and elsewhere. Do a greekchat search on “ebay” – there are like 25 threads in just the last week! More than half of them are about badges on ebay.

So with that in mind, who exactly are you “making aware”? Everyone on the planet knows that their GLO badges are frequently on ebay. There have been 415 fraternity and sorority pins sold on ebay in the last 30 days alone! If I’m a DPhiE with money to spend and I want to buy a badge, don’t you think I’m already checking ebay? Isn’t that the first place I’d look? If I’m a representative from a national HQ and it’s my job to rescue badges from the open market, don’t you think I’m already checking ebay? These people are already bidding on these pins, and they have been bidding on them all along. Now they’re just paying more because they’re bidding against their own members, all the while putting more money in the dealers’ hands.

So, I’m not really irked or offended. I just think that while your intentions are commendable, your actions are shortsighted. And I think I have a broader perspective on it because not only am I an NIC fraternity member but I am also a long time collector of GLO badges.

Best Regards,
wptw

I am asking the general GC public what they think of this wptw, as you have already made your opinions known to me. I made it into a thread because if people thought that my posting ebay pins in their organization's forum was a "knee-jerk" reaction to try to save pins from collectors' hands, I wanted to know. As it appears thus far, most seem to appreciate it.

My guess is that your problem is that you are a pin collector, so maybe the prices you're willing to pay for pins is quite a bit less than a National Headquarters is willing to pay to save a badge, so you're a bit miffed. I could be wrong, but I don't really understand why someone out of the blue sends me an email as you did, and tells me that while noble, my actions are not very helpful.

First, let me respond to some statements.

KappaStargirl:
“Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to bid so high on a badge from an organization to which they did not belong unless they are mean and disrespectful and spiteful.”

Do you honestly believe that collectors spend hundreds of $$ of their hard-earned cash on an antique badge simply out of spite? That's absurd. Being mean and disrespectful and spiteful is free. So if you’re inclined to be that way (personally I’m not), why pay $1200?


CutiePie2000:
“In all likelihood, none of us here on GC are independently wealthy and can afford to out-bid the die hard collectors on E Bay.”

You think collectors are independently wealthy? From your lips to god’s ears, my dear! Would that it were true, but alas, ‘tis just another of many generalizations about collectors.


BrianMUDU:
“I'm sure the people who were bidding on it had no idea that it belonged to a brother who graduated from Amherst in 1885.:

Don’t be so sure. Who do you think are buying the antique directories off of ebay? The auction you referred to was indeed won by a collector. But you neglect to mention that the last 10 or so old DU badges on ebay in the last year went to a DU member (who happened to be the 2nd highest bidder in this auction). By my math, that tells me 91% of the time you’re bidding against your own brother, not a collector.

But this is my point exactly! DU already has someone fighting hard for their badges. Bravo for him, seriously. Most other groups do too. So what purpose does “HEADS UP DU’s – YOUR BADGE IS ON EBAY” serve? Just more acrimony and higher prices.

By the way, do you really believe after spending $355, this guy is going to throw that DU badge into “some bin with a bunch of other pins”?

Shadokat:
“My guess is that your problem is that you are a pin collector, so maybe the prices you're willing to pay for pins is quite a bit less than a National Headquarters is willing to pay to save a badge, so you're a bit miffed”

Are you crazy? As a collector, I LOVE high prices on ebay. If I need to sell off a duplicate, ebay is the best place. I rarely buy from ebay – there always have been and always will be less expensive places to find nice pins. That’s the whole point – you’re not taking these pins out of collectors hands! You’re making us pay more for them, sure. But we’ll keep paying the high prices just like you will, because we want them just as much as you want them. Think about it – as prices have gone up, would you say collectors win auctions (a) more often, (b) less often or (c) with about the same frequency? I say (c) and possibly even (a). In the end, nothing will change except the dealers will have more money. That’s all I’m saying.

“I could be wrong, but I don't really understand why someone out of the blue sends me an email as you did, and tells me that while noble, my actions are not very helpful.”

Clearly you don’t understand. The answer is: Because I’m not just a collector, that’s why. I’m also a GLO member. And as a GLO member, I don’t want to see dealers profiting excessively from the sale of my badge any more than any of you do.



No need to poll the audience. I already know mine is the dissenting opinion. I didn’t post here to win friends. And I don’t need to have people agree with me to know I’m right. I’m not here to troll or start trouble either. I have a different opinion than all of you, I think I have some solid arguments to back up my opinion, and I’m stating those arguments all the while treating all of you with respect (which is more than I can say for some of you who insist on stereotyping and insulting collectors).

wptw

shadokat-

Someone brought this up a little while ago - that posting it drove the price up. The consensus was to PM the moderator of that GLO's forum so they would be notified yet it would not be open for all to see. However, there are many forums on here with no moderator, so if you are bothered by it, then **AHEM** volunteer to moderate your GLO's forum.

As far as collectors go, they wouldn't have the chance to bid on these badges or other items if we stressed it more to our members to provide instructions for dispensation of these badges after death and did a better job explaining its significance. Let's face it, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

It's Alpha Pi, not Alpha Phi
 

Today, in my ebay email there was a pin advertised for Alpha Phi Fraternity. Naturally I checked it out. Turns out it is a pin for Alpha Pi, not Alpha Phi. The person selling it doesn't even know the greek alphabet. How frustrating! So FYI, if you are an Alpha Pi, there is an arrow pin on ebay right now.

I don't hate collectors, as wptw would like you all to believe. Maybe people do, but that's their choice to make. All I tried to do by posting in the organization's forum was to tell folks that a pin from their organization was up for auction. I would rather see pins on ebay go to members of an organization or their HQs than see them go to a pin collector. Of course, I realize that pin collectors (one of the being a sister of mine) also save the pins sometimes from people who melt down the valuable gold and keep the gems for their own use.

My motive in my posting is pretty clear...I'd rather see a member or HQ get the pin. It hasn't nothing to do with posting for popularity or anything else.

With that said, I think I'll go back under the rock I came from, because I'd rather not become the focus of some argument.

shadokat, feel free to post in the Alpha Phi forum at any time. We would all appreciate your kindness! :D

Ditto! :)

wptw,

I wouldn't expect you to understand because you are one of the kinds of people who I am frustrated with -- People who feel the need to buy something that shouldn't belong to them. I know that the second highest bidder was a DU. I usually wouldn't bid against a brother, but since this person had outbid me once before in another auction I didn't feel bad about trying to win the auction myself. I'm not just trying to "save" these badges. I also want them because I have great respect for them and would like to be the one in possession of it as well as the person who kept it in the Fraternity. So while it may seem harsh, I don't care to hear your opinion on things anymore. I would never bid on a badge from another fraternity. It isn't my fraternity, it doesn't belong to me.

Hey Brian, I respect your opinion. And actually I do understand. In general, I would also prefer that my badges stay within my GLO instead of going to a non-member. Honestly I would. But this just isn’t the way to go about it.

I’m not arguing the right and wrong of collecting badges (not this time anyway). So put that debate aside for the moment. I am merely pointing out one thing: (generally speaking, now) Adding more bidders does NOTHING to keep badges out of collectors hands. In fact, all evidence shows the contrary. In general, more bidders drive the price beyond the reach of most members and indeed beyond the reach of even the national HQ. But collectors keep paying the high prices. Heck, you’ve been complaining about this very thing all over GC for months: “I can’t afford to pay as much as the collectors pay”. Do the math yourselves – it’s not hard to collect the data (number of pins at auction, closing price, number of bids, collector vs. non-collector winning). So if these “mass alerts” don’t improve your chances of outbidding the collectors, why would you keep doing something that encourages dealers to put MORE pins on ebay at HIGHER prices? Do you just enjoy the sensation of shooting yourselves in the foot?

33girl’s comment is very wise. Private messages to designated people make sure the GLO is aware their badge is at auction, and give them the opportunity to rescue it without driving up the prices unnecessarily.

Lastly, it’s really irrelevant whether or not you want to hear my opinion. I’m a legitimate member of this forum just like you are, and like you I’m expressing my opinion in a respectful and constructive manner. So feel free to scroll past my posts, but I will certainly keep jumping onto this dead horse whenever it miraculously staggers to its feet.

[If only real life were as easy as scrolling past the opinions you disagree with. Clamping hands over ears in the face of a differing opinion only perpetuates the stereotype that all greeks are supposed to think and act exactly alike.]

As I told Shadokat, maybe you would all like it better to have things the way they were only a few years ago, when ebay was but a glint in a young man’s eye and just a few evil collectors like me were pleading with dealers to sell us the pins instead of throwing them in the melting pot. I’m sure your brother from Amherst would have appreciated having his badge made into one more big gaudy nugget ring on QVC.

wptw

Thanks lauradev and dzrose :) Brian, I'm sorry you lost your badge, but to another brother is ok :)

wptw told me he would give all of our badges back to our national HQs...as soon as he dies. How noble. :rolleyes:

wptw, I can understand what you are saying about collectors! I did collect certain plates and statues at one time till they got to expenseve to buy direct! I think what everyone is saying that we all have a very deep feeling for OUR Badges and what to keep with in our Organizations!

While I cannot see a collector melting them down for money, most of the jewels and gold are not worth the price of the Badge!
You say you are a GLO, if you do not mind me asking, which one? P E-M if you like! I will keep it between us!

Thanks Tom for the levelheaded post. Deep feeling for badges and the desire to keep them in the family is something I understand, appreciate and agree with. It's not the goal I disagree with, it's Shadokat's method.

I will PM you as requested.

Yes, most collectors have made provisions to donate their collections either to their own GLO HQ, to each of the respective organizations, or individually to other collectors who are members of that GLO. So yes, I have made arrangements for my pins. Especially for my DPhiE's, which thanks to Shadokat's snotty dig will now be personally melted down by my executor.

:p

(before someone gets their knickers in a twist, I was only kidding about melting the DPhiE badges)

It wasn't a dig. It was your words....as I stated earlier, I'm going to crawl back under the rock from where I came, as I am no longer interested in being the subject of wptw's argument.

Hooray! Finally a topic to replace racial issues as "discussion that goes around and around and keeps covering the same ground and never goes anywhere"!!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

shadokat,

Just for the record, that badge I was referring to did not go to another brother :( At least as far as I know. I looked at the winners feedback and he had pins and pledge pins from various fraternities.

Yeah, it really sucks that 'our' badges are on eBay, and there are 'pin collectors' out ther buying them. We need to realize though however, that many/most pin collectors are greek, and they are collecting them because of their meanings, values and just mainly because they like them.

We cannot freak out everytime a new badge is on eBay, because we will all get ulcers and go to the hospital, and eventually get a gray hair or two from it.

Question for you all: If there were a badge on ebay, stating "Alpha Lambda Phi badge - 1842" and there were no bids on it. And you think, "Alpha Lambda Phi, what the hell is that?" So, you go into the actual auction and realize, "Man-oh-man, its really an Alpha Delta Phi badge from 1842". Would you bid on it?

Shit yeah you would!

PS, not all the people who so called 'own' these pins know what they are, what they mean, know which organization they belong to...etc. I have seen many pins at Antique stores and garage sales, so they do not realize that they should be donated/sold back to the respective HQ. Educating members where their pin should go is great, but when they are dead, they really can't package it up and send it on its merry way.....and a lot of the time, their families don't know that either.

We need to get over it, because the more people are worried about it, the more the pins will sell for.

That is all.

Hell no I wouldn't.

The only badges I'm interested in purchasing are Delta Zeta badges, and I bid on them with the intent of either A) locating the owner to see if the badge was lost or stolen or B) returning it to National Headquarters.

Because I realize how strongly my National HQ feels about who should be allowed to wear/own a Delta Zeta badge, I have a deep respect for other Greek organizations who have similar feelings about their badges. For this reason, I would NEVER purchase another GLO's badge. I don't care how old it is, how many precious stones it contains, or whose initials are engraved on the back. :rolleyes:

To me, if a person is going to publicly call herself Greek and profess to love her organization and respect all other GLOs, then that person should never purchase the badge of another Greek org just for the purpose of collecting. If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence. :eek: Whether those regulations stand up in a court of law or not is completely beside the point. The sole issue here is respect. ;)

As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters? By doing so, they'll make an organization very happy and, in return, that person and his/her organization will gain some added respect because he/she has done the "sisterly" or "brotherly" thing. Talk about some great PR! :)

I find the whole idea of pin collectors quite irritating. Of course I understand that there is nothing I can do about it when a badge from my sorority is up for auction, but it's frustrating all the same when you see that the winning bidder is not a member of your GLO. I don't think I'll ever understand why a person would want a badge to whose organization they were never a member. I earned my badge by learning what it means, and it can never mean anything to someone who has never learned it. And I assure you that if I ever did purchase another GLO's badge, it would be for the purpose of returning it to that GLO.

What I think even a lot of members sometimes fail to understand is that that badge belongs to their national organization. I was told during my pledge period that when I die, my badge is to either be sent to nationals or buried with me. And when a member terminates her membership, she must return the badge to nationals. I KNOW that MANY, if not all, other national GLOs have the same policies, so there's no excuse for these pins to keep popping up on ebay. I don't care what excuses the collectors come up with, I will NEVER understand why they want them!

The only time I have heard of the badge having to be returned to the National Office, or is property of the National Office, is with a few select sororities. Although, its not like that is everyday conversation, so I am sure it is more standard than I think.

I do not believe the Badge of Beta Theta Pi is General Fraternity property, therefore our badge can be handed down, donated, buried, made into a necklace/ring...etc.

I still think people need to get over the whole pin thing on eBay. I think its great that people want to save pins and send them to HQ and all, but lets be realistic. There is just too much of it going on, and a lot less rich people willing to throw up literally tens of thousands of dollars to rescue them all.

No hard feelings, but this is like the Taliban taking on the US of A.....a battle that cannot be won.

Hey, I don't wear knickers...they wouldn't go with my lovely DPhiE badge! ;)

Dzrose93:
“If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence.”

Wrong. GLOs who actually take a position on this issue are in the minority.


Dzrose93:
“As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters?”

You know, that is such an easy offhand “cocktail party” thing to say. Sure, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too:

You want the badges saved from being melted down…
But you can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And your HQ can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And you won’t do the legwork to find the other 50% of “loose” badges that AREN’T on ebay…
So you expect collectors to do ALL of this for you with their own time and money? This sounds like Communism!

Let me see if I’ve got the message straight:
>>>Thank you, Mr. Collector, for spending piles of your own money and scores of Saturdays to rescue pins since before I was even born. But now there’s ebay, and we’re on top of it now. Besides which you weren’t really supposed to have those pins anyway you know, and even though you’ve spent a big chunk of your life preserving and studying GLO history, really you don’t understand what it means to be a respectful greek. So could you please just donate your entire collections that you’ve worked years to build back to the HQs, where they will likely collect dust in a storage room? Thanks. We can’t afford to reimburse you or anything, but just think what great PR it will be!<<<

Gack!

FYI, from time to time we actually do return pins to national HQs.


SSS1365:
“I earned my badge by learning what it means, and it can never mean anything to someone who has never learned it.”

You’re saying that all it takes to earn the Tri-Sig badge is learning what the symbols mean?
Funny - My GLO teaches me that earning the badge is a lifelong process, not something you do once. Maybe that’s the whole source of our difference of opinion about badges on ebay.


Cream:
“Hey, I don't wear knickers...they wouldn't go with my lovely DPhiE badge!”

But I think I’ve seen DPhiE knickers on ebay. Quite nice. Surely these would complement the badge, yes?

And trying to distract me by telling me you don’t wear knickers will not work!!

Umm…Crap, lost my train of thought. What the heck were we talking about?

Oh yeah…


ZZ-kai-:
“We need to get over it, because the more people are worried about it, the more the pins will sell for.”

Exactly.


wptw

Dzrose93:
“If she loves and respects Greek Life as much as she claims, then she wouldn't commit an act that goes against the wishes and written regulations of nearly every GLO in existence.”

wptw: Wrong. GLOs who actually take a position on this issue are in the minority.

Contact the National Headquarters of every national GLO and ask them if they like the fact that many of their badges are in the hands of non-members. Do you HONESTLY think that you're going to get a response back saying that they don't give a damn as to who is carrying around their badges? Please. If you really think those organizations don't care where their badges are, then you are seriously deluded. Maybe many of those organizations can't afford a badge rescue fund (although mine does), but that doesn't take away from the fact that they desire for their badges to remain in the hands of their members. I guess since the orgs can't outbid you each and every time on E-Bay, then that means that the GLOs don't deserve to have their badges back?

My problem with E-Bay badge collectors who are Greek lies in the fact that these people know better than anyone how important and symbolic badges are, yet they still bid against GLO members who are trying to save their badges.

If one of my sisters was trying to save a badge on E-Bay, and sent you an e-mail asking you to please not bid so that she could win the auction and return the badge to HQ, would you do the brotherly thing and bow to her wishes? If so, then I truly commend you, because there are many collectors who would do nothing more than send back a smartass comment in response to her request.

Dzrose93:
“As for the Greek pin collectors who say they're collecting badges in order to "save" them from being melted down... Why don't they go a step further and REALLY "save" them by returning them to their rightful owners - National Headquarters?”

wptw: You know, that is such an easy offhand “cocktail party” thing to say. Sure, everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too:

You want the badges saved from being melted down…

This has nothing to do with wanting my cake and eating it too. There's nothing I detest more than hypocrisy. There are badge collectors who hide behind the "It was going to be melted down unless I bought it" excuse. If that person is so concerned about the welfare of that badge, then why not contact the National HQ and let them know of the situation? My organization would offer to pay the cost of the badge or $50, whichever was less, in order to get that badge back in our possession. And, if it were to cost more than $50, there is a whole network of sisters who will do their best to raise the money to save it. Unfortunately, badge collectors prevent us from saving many of those badges because we just can't go as high as they do in the bidding. Do we resent them for that? You're darn right we do!

wptw: But you can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…
And your HQ can’t afford to buy them all out of the ebay dealers hands…

Wrong. We can't afford to buy them out of the COLLECTORS' hands who are bidding against us. If the collectors would keep their money out of the bidding, then we would stand a MUCH better chance of rescuing badges.

wptw: And you won’t do the legwork to find the other 50% of “loose” badges that AREN’T on ebay…

Won't do the legwork to find the badges not on E-Bay? That is such an untrue statement that it's almost laughable. We have sisters who visit antique and jewelry shops, attend estate sales, and check magazines and newspapers regularly to see if badges can be located. Then, if they can't afford to buy the badges themselves, they contact our Badge Rescue Fund members to see if someone is willing to pool their funds in order to get the badges back. So, please don't assume that we aren't actively looking for our badges just because you find them before we do occasionally.

wptw: So you expect collectors to do ALL of this for you with their own time and money? This sounds like Communism!

wptw: Let me see if I’ve got the message straight:
>>>Thank you, Mr. Collector, for spending piles of your own money and scores of Saturdays to rescue pins since before I was even born. But now there’s ebay, and we’re on top of it now. Besides which you weren’t really supposed to have those pins anyway you know, and even though you’ve spent a big chunk of your life preserving and studying GLO history, really you don’t understand what it means to be a respectful greek. So could you please just donate your entire collections that you’ve worked years to build back to the HQs, where they will likely collect dust in a storage room? Thanks. We can’t afford to reimburse you or anything, but just think what great PR it will be!<<<

I'm sorry - exactly where in my post did I say that I "expect" people to find and buy back badges since GLO members and/or their National Headquarters can't afford to do so 24/7? Where in my post did I ask people to donate their entire collections back to HQ? You obviously missed (or chose to overlook) my point which is: THE BADGES SHOULDN'T BE COLLECTED BY NON-MEMBERS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you are Greek and believe in the mottos that we live by and the creeds that our founders wrote, then why are you actively going against the wishes of your fellow Greeks by buying up items that they DO NOT want a non-member to possess? :confused:

Why, after people make you aware of the fact that it is written in a particular GLO's rules and regulations that badges are not to be owned or worn by non-members, do you CONTINUE to purchase these items? :confused:

The answer is that you just don't care about the wishes of other GLOs. You can preach until you're blue in the face about how much you've studied Greek history and you can tell us how you're preserving that history by buying these badges. But it doesn't change the simple fact that, by buying those badges for your own personal gratification, you are thumbing your nose at your Greek brothers and sisters.

By purchasing those badges you're basically saying, "Yeah, I know that your national policy specifically states that non-members shouldn't have your badges, but I'm different. I've read a couple of old pledge books and learned a few things about your founders. I know why you have the colors you do, and why your flower is what it is. Heck, I even have a few theories about what your sorority pin might represent. And, although I've never been inside your initiation ritual, that doesn't really matter because I'm entitled to your badge simply because I lucked up and found one for sale, had the cash available, and thought it would be nice to have it in my collection. Too bad that the little XYZ member who was bidding on E-Bay against me didn't have the funds to outbid me. Oh well, that's not my fault, is it?" :D

With all that said, to be quite honest, I don't give a rat's arse what you think about my comments. You can twist my words however you like. It doesn't change the fact that many badge collectors A) fully realize that there are GLO's with written policies stating that their badges are to be possessed by initiated members ONLY and B) they simply don't give a damn about the wishes of those GLOs.

My point is a perfectly legitimate one, and I think deep down you know it.

OK, well argued, dzrose.

So in response, I’ll not make any generalizations or assumptions and I’ll just shoot straight from the hip.

On the “it was going to be melted down unless I bought it” excuse…
On a macro level, I do honestly believe this. OK, if tomorrow I pass on a DZ badge, obviously a sister will be there to bid on it. Obviously it won’t get melted down. I think the point we try to make is, without us, very little of the ebay demand would have ever been there in the first place. Without collectors, most of you would still be unaware of the problem of loose badges. And I believe 100% that right now, today, badges stand a better chance of going “home” with collectors in the world.

It is quite clear that collectors are no longer AS necessary to the “badge saving” equation as we used to be. And you’re right - most people didn’t start collecting out of some grand desire to perform a public service to the greek world. But regardless of what our intentions were in collecting badges “way back when”, a lot of badges WERE saved because of us, which is why we also take it personally when we read some of the nasty things you ladies sometimes say in anger.

Question: Why can’t you go as high in the bidding as a collector? We’re just people with normal jobs in our 20s, 30s and 40s. We really don’t have unlimited income. This is important to us, so it’s what we choose to spend our money on. It’s a spending priority for us, so perhaps that’s why we APPEAR to have so much money.

The fact that some national GLO officers (past and present) are badge collectors would seem to contradict your claim that this practice is somehow disrespectful to greeks.

Having bought and sold quite a few badges on ebay, I can tell you that these “friendly” emails from sisters are hardly ever friendly. Not that that justifies a smartass response, of course. Just pointing out that this is not a one-sided issue.

My research into GLOs goes quite a bit beyond the material contained in pledge manuals and websites. If you’d like me to prove that you in the specific case of Delta Zeta, I will. Privately, of course.

You know, you ask some tough questions there. I’ll just answer for myself. Ultimately it comes down to how I choose to “celebrate” being greek. How I choose to strengthen my own bond. The joy I get from searching for these important bits of history outweighs the objections. I’ve made great friends, I’ve learned a lot about my own organization and others, and I’ve passed on some of that learning to others who became inspired to learn more about their org. Don’t know if other collectors would answer the same way. And maybe that answer doesn’t make me the nicest person in the world in your opinion. If that’s selfish, then so be it. It’s the truth.

wptw

wptw, knowing your back ground, let me somewhat rest the fears of some of the members of GC!
He and I had a nice chat and I can understand where he is coming from! I know I have bought LXA Badges off ebay and I do not like it that they are on there, and I want them in my hands or a Brothers Hands!

The ones I have bought will not go back to International but to my Brothers Who cannot afford them !!!!!!!

Not for their personal use but to be passed down say from the honor Assoc. and the High Alpha,)President( as each new one takes office or is inducted into the Brotherhood of LXA!

I unfortunatally bought Badges from a Brother who is putting on ebay! He is in money trouble, but I wish he would contact me first before he does go to ebay. it is a fact of life and while I do not like it, that is the way it is!

I have Brothers who have given them to thier sons who have lost them so do not have any. They have lost them and do not have any! I offer to sell them for the price I have in them so they too can have a Badge! Even though we may not wear them very often!

i have of a kind and will never give it up except on my death and that goes to my Chapter! it is in the Will! and one of my Brothers is doing the will and 2 of them are executors of it!

You feel strongly? No more so than I! I know what I did to get mine! I started the whole thing at my Chapter and am damn proud of the fact!

I want those knickers for Christmas! HAHA!!;)

First of all, you completely misunderstood what I meant. Yes, it IS a lifelong process, but if YOU believe that too then WHY are you one of the collectors? And could you maybe try to stop talking down to us when you respond to our posts?

I agree that freaking out about pins on ebay is pointless. There's no law against it, so the pins will always be there and there is nothing anyone can do about it. I was simply stating my opinion on the matter... but I do know that nothing can be done.

Okay please no one yell at me about this saying it's "stiring up something" but I just wanted to say that many of the badges on e-bay that could be rescued or whatever can't be found by searching simply for the name of the organization. The badge sellers on there are ignorant to start with, but the worst ones don't even know any of the Greek alphabet so they simply put headings such as "fraternity/sorority pin or badge?!?" so make sure (if you have the money for it and you are wanting to "rescue" them) that you type in "sorority" or "fraternity" in the search engine there and then narrow it down to the "jewelry" category or "collectables" category. Some of these are really really cheap too because the seller does not know ANYTHING about the badge.

One example of the sheer ignorance of a seller is he/she said "Sorority Pendant" and it was a Sigma Chi FRATERNITY pendant!! Grrr dumb people! You'd think if they are dumb enough to sell this stuff they should at least be knowledgeable about what it is they're selling.