Alabama maximizing options question
 

My daughter went through rush at Alabama and loved every minute. She pledged what I guess is considered an old row sorority. One that is very strong in the south and we thought was strong at Alabama. She has met some nice girls and is liking it but there are some really out of control girls and she doesn't enjoy going to parties or anywhere these girls are. They are obnoxious and embarrassing. I feel so bad because she feels like she made a mistake in her choice. I'm a little upset that the sorority allowed these young ladies in to begin with. I know it's college but I think the girls should be held to a higher standard. When they have girls obnoxiously drunk, cursing, rude to others,sleeping around....it's unacceptable. I wasn't in a sorority but was under the impression that the sororities were very picky about the kinds of girls they let in.

I'm wondering if possibly these girls made it in because of the maximizing your options? From what I understand if a girl listed all her pref parties on her last day they were guaranteed a bid. Were sororities forced to take girls that were on the bottom of their list? Personally I don't even know why they had these girls at pref. I've heard that some of the sororities lost their top choice to other sororities and had to do snap bids. I'm not sure I understand what a snap bid is but it doesn't sound good.

Are the sororities required to take a certain number of girls? It seems like the majority of the girls are great but theres a couple dozen girls that dont seem to fit in or want to fit in. Its almost as if they had to take these girls just to fill some qouta. These girls are giving the rest of the sorority a bad reputation. I wish rush was later so that the girls could get to know the sororities better and the sororities could get to know the girls. Do the sororities ever kick girls out for bad behavior at parties and on campus?

You know, sometimes you just don't want to know the answers. Even if we knew the answers to some of your questions, we couldn't tell you, and even if we could, you probably wouldn't like the answer.

Just sit back and let your daughter experience all the ups and downs she's facing. Considering the size of the groups at Bama, it's very likely that your daughter will find the group of sisters she identifies with most, and the sisters she's complaining about now won't be such an issue.

I'm going to say this knowing that I often get slammed for being direct. Sorority life is the same as anything else in this world. You'll find a cross section of all types in every group. You could go to the "best" church in your town and find partiers, those who sleep around, do drugs, etc. Being in a sorority does not insulate one from like. If you or she expected that, I am sorry that you are disappointed. How various groups deal with errant behaviour is not a topic we discuss here. It's just as unseemly to do so as it is to discuss the behaviour itself. If your daughter has a problem with something she has seen or experienced, she needs to talk it over with the appropriate person or board in HER group.

The girls who are cursing, sleeping around, partying, etc, were probably not "last resort" option for the sororities; It is very likely that they were right there on the first bid list.
There are many girls who are sweet, do well academically and socially, and put on a good appearance, but go wild in college, especially freshman year. The pressure of being so "perfect" all the time and finally being away from home does that to a lot of people, especially girls, both in and out of greek life. There are also girls who are wild, but keep it under wraps depending on their social situation, meaning it wasn't evident during rush. In the next few months and years, most of these girls will calm down. They'll realize that they don't want to flunk their classes, don't want to always be dealing with drama, and don't want to be thought of as a "frat potato." If your daughter isn't into this scene, I promise that in huge houses like those at Alabama, there are plenty girls who aren't into that behavior at all.
I would encourage her to only act the way SHE sees best, and to avoid putting herself in situations and around people that make her uncomfortable, but don't discount these girls. Rather, give them time. She'll figure out eventually which girls are just nice girls letting loose, and which ones may actually be getting themselves into trouble in the long run. Some of the girls that may go crazy at a social event could be just fine to hang out with and talk to away from party life, and may come to be really loyal friends that need to mature. Until then, she should spend her time with those who behave similarly to her, but still be friendly to others.

As for if sororities kick girls out, most, if not all, sororities have a standards board. There are ways of reporting girls for bad behavior, and an elected judicial board will usually have a hearing to decide what consequences should be given, if any. If a girl is continuously behaving badly (and I mean serious things), they could very well get kicked out, but usually a warning run-in with standards is enough to let a girl know when she needs to tone it down.

These girls are mostly 17, 18 and 19. They'll grow up and figure out how to act. You're lucky it seems your daughter already has.

Titchou, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I think all sororities have members who fit this description and also members who are prudish over reactors too. With a whole lot of others in between. You need to learn to get along with a lot of different kinds of people and the houses are so big at Bama you will have a lot of members to chose from to get close to.

To say that some members were last choices isn't right because when it comes to preference parties all of those PNM's left are the ones that the house knows they could potentially bid.

I don't think it's very mature to come to the internet and post some second hand gossip either. This isn't that other website.

Go Team Titchou! SydneyK! GeorgiaGreek! Old_Row!

PS. Maybe the only reason your daughter got in was because of maximizing options. Maybe they had to take her. You will never know.

I would expect a post like this from your daughter, not a mother. Have you been there every single day and seen these girls that are out of control with your own eyes? Besides, with chapters as large as those at Alabama, there is probably one girl for every stereotype there is out there in every sorority and the same goes for non-Greeks as well. If your daughter is sharing these concerns with you, coming on a message board and talking about it is bad form IMO. Let her enjoy her pledge period, bond with new members/sisters that she does have things in common with and go from there. If certain women in the chapter cause enough problems, I'm sure the sorority will handle it. Besides, even if you did just come here to vent, how do you expect to receive any answers when it comes to where certain individuals were on a bid list? We are not members that made those decisions and it's not something that is discussed anyways.

Your daughter is a big girl now. Time to tell her to handle life's little dilemmas on her own. This is not a critical life changer that she can't handle on her own. Listen to her & let her figure out what to do on her own.

Just a question. Did she pledge this sorority because it was "old row," or because she evaluated the women in it? The old row thing at Alabama is hard to shake. A lot of girls are drawn to them just because they are called old row, and they disregard some really great organizations because of it.

And Titchou....you are right on. There is a cross section of behavior in just about all the groups.

I don't know, this post (from the mother AND the daughter's perspective) sounds really really judgy.

Some young women can juggle being social, drinking a lot, and even (gasp!) being sexually active (and at this point, does the OP's daughter even know who's making out with randos and who's making out with her longtime boyfriend?) and being a rockstar in the classroom. Their suitability for being in a sorority doesn't hinge on that. Maybe the OP's daughter is super sheltered and has really antiquated ideas about how a young woman in a sorority should behave.

If things with certain young women become a problem, TRUST that Standards will be on it. All your daughter should be focusing on is making friends and getting that stick out of her ass. It may turn out that the girls who turned her off the most in the beginning become her best friends.

Keeping an open mind doesn't end when Recruitment does.

I wasn't under the impression that the mom actually knew if the sorority was "old row" or not, but I don't feel that this should suggest that "old row" sororities have more of this behavior than any other sororities.

I know of many girls who have been dropped by sororities considered "old row" -- and other sororities as well -- for this kind of behavior prior to rush. Sororities can be really "judgy" about that on the front side. So how is a PNM supposed to "evaluate" the behavior of other members during recruitment?

It really is a weird active/PNM double standard I guess.

BamaJama -- I do agree with others on this thread -- that in any group that size, one can find a sub-group with similar interests. Every sorority will have a range of personalities, behaviors, and interests. Don't worry about the falling-down-drunk chicks and frat taters -- as someone else mentioned -- if it is an ongoing problem, the Standards Committee will speak with them.

Alabama is kind of known for leaning to the wild side -- so your daughter will be exposed to plenty of bad party behavior in her time there.

I like this sentence a whole lot.

Hartofsec, I don't believe I suggested anything of the sort, and I even said that there is a cross section of behavior in most all the organizations. If my question was interpreted beyond this, I apologize. The OP got the term "Old Row" from somewhere. My guess is that is what her daughter told her. I suppose my point is one shouldn't assume just because you pledge old row, this sort of behavior is out of the question. Especially at Alabama.

No problem -- I agree with you. :)

I just don't think that party behavior by chapter actives -- or among potential pledge sisters -- is possible for a PNM to evaluate during rush.

A BIG part of college, like it or not is heavy duty drinking, probable drug use (hopefully mild and limited), and sexual exploration. She's seeing it more in the house than on her dorm floor because she's spending more time with her sorority sisters. But I can assure you that there is no corner of Bama, or any other school (besides maybe Liberty and Bob Jones) that aren't dealing with all of this.

This is the time for her to learn how to deal with people who are different from her, and who make bad decisions, and where it is none of her business. If she gets harassed or bullied about participating in dangerous or unladylike behavior, then she needs to do something about it. Otherwise, she should focus on finding her right fit within the sorority. This isn't a chapter of 50 girls. It's not even a pledge class of 50. She can find girls who don't want to drink or whatever else she's finding offensive. But suggest she keep it to herself or she will risk alienating herself from girls who are less judgy.

The OP’s impression is actually not unreasonable – it is understandable, even according to the advice given on this message board:

PNMs are told to hide evidence that they drink and party -- to clean up their fb and other social media, and not discuss booze, boys, etc.

Girls participating in deferred recruitment are advised to be cautious regarding their campus behavior. It seems that the sororities themselves are not very “open minded” about heavy drinking, drug use, and sleeping around among PNMs on the front side of recruitment. Sororities absolutely are “judgy” about not-so-classy behavior among PNMs.

In-state girls are more likely to have a known reputation (for better or for worse), since girls from their high schools are likely to be scattered among the chapters. Typically less is known in the reputation department about OOS girls.

Here is some of the advice stickied on this forum:

And this advice is given all while girls are told to be “themselves” during recruitment. :rolleyes:

So unless someone can explain why there is little open-mindedness regarding this behavior before bid day, but plenty of open-mindedness from that point forward, then Bamajama’s confusion is understandable.

I think she just inadvertently pointed out the double standard that we all know exists.

I don't know about anyone else, but peer pressure as you might experience it in HS is pretty absent in college. From my experience, the usual response, if you're not judgemental about it and just straightforward, to "I don't drink/smoke pot/sleep around" is "cool, more for me." So I wouldn't worry that your daughter is going to turn into Lindsay Lohan II.

As far as girls being rude, they are new and feeling their oats, especially if they pledged what is seen as one of the more prestigious groups. They will get knocked off their self-imposed pedestals in a hurry once a guy they like rejects them in favor of some hot emo-girl GDI. :)

Seriously, this is so common in the first months of college life it's not even worth a thread. It just shows that glowing recs and a glowing high school record don't tell everything.

lol, so you are saying that girls who pledge "one of the more prestigious groups" are more likely to be rude and behave badly?

And you base this statement on ... what?

lol. Just lol.

No, I'm saying they're more likely to be a little prouder of themselves in the beginning stages. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't be "tiers" and terms like "old row". The OP who you are so vociferously defending is the one who mentioned the girls being rude, I didn't pull it out of my ass. Go back and reread the post.

And I base what I said on...pretty much what everyone else would base it on...seeing it happen at their OWN school. "We all know that people are the same wherever you go."

I think you are stereotyping and making faulty assumptions about girls in chapters you know nothing about, on a campus where you have no experience.

If a poster here did the same regarding chapters that are less well-established, it would be tantamount to throwing a grenade in a henhouse.

Just sayin'. :rolleyes:

Good God woman, lay off the bath salts.

I am saying I've witnessed this happen to girls in chapters at MY SCHOOL, as probably everyone else has. It's a universal experience, like dreaming you haven't studied for finals. Girls who get [insert very desired thing here] are snobby and bitchy for a bit. Then they calm down.

It was meant to be a joke and alleviate a mother's worry. If you really need that spelled out to you, you might want to go to a Labor Day sale and inquire as to which department the "senses of humor" and "reading comprehension" are in.

/swerve

Taking orders for the upcoming book: 33girl Tells All About Life. Subtitle: Read This, You'll Save Yourself a LOT of Trouble.

I know I'm gonna make tons of $$$$$.

Or, I could sell microfiber wipes for computer screens that are covered in (insert liquid here) spit as we read your pithy, astute, funny as hell posts.

/end swerve *and I don't give a flying f if I put the slash marks in the wrong places.*

stealing this.

as long as you don't call it a back slash when it's a forward slash. I heard this one on GMA again this morning. Makes me CRAZY. Only forward slashes are ever used in anything to do with the interwebs. Better yet, just go ahead and call them slashes. Everyone will understand.

/climbs off high horse with a FORWARD slash.

Really? Wasn't my experience on the campus in question.



Oh I see. My apologies for being so dumb. I didn't realize you were attempting to "alleviate a mother's worry."

I guess the joke was somehow lost when you did attempt to 'spell it out.' :rolleyes:

Your omniscience on matters relating to what new members think -- in chapters you were not a member of -- at schools you did not attend -- is just remarkable. :)

Okay folks, calm down or I'll have to close it. No attacks.

It's weird that almost all of the threads (maybe all of them) that HartofSec replies in get closed. :confused:

To the OP: I was surprised at the variety of women in each chapter on my campus. There were the hard core party girls and the "stay a virgin until I get married" girls on the straight and narrow. I was somewhere in between, but did not (and still do not) drink & party. I definitely had sisters that embarrassed me and probably embarrassed the name "Delta Gamma" -- but it is part of college (and there were also girls on my campus who gave the other chapters questionable reputations as well), like many have said. As long as they were staying legal and safe and it did not go against our bylaws (drinking at certain functions, hazing, drinking in letters, etc.), then there isn't much I could do.

I did find girls in my chapter that were more like me...and now that all of my pledge sisters are 30 years old, we've mostly calmed down, gotten married, and started little families. AND we enjoy our sisterhood more than ever.

One other thing I thing the OP is experiencing. She has just emerged from recruitment (er, her daughter did) and after hearing all summer about how competitive it is, how difficult cuts are, how selective the old row groups are, etc. she and the daughter are surprised to find that 'wild" girls actually get bids in those houses.

And don't flame me for using the term 'wild, girls. I don't mean that in a judgemental way. :)

Maybe it is because HartSec doesn't back down from calling out forum bullying. Sad that so many of the apparent long time posters here (at least going by the number of posts they have had time make) seem to epitomize the sorority mean girl stereotype. I think HartSec has made some astute observations.

Oh my