Alumni/Alumnae who don't know their place
 

I graduated two years ago, and I still live in the town where my alma mater is located. I have been attending chapter business meetings on a regular basis (at least 3x a month) and the executive board has asked me to serve as an advisor this year pending a vote by the chapter at the next business meeting. I couldn't be more excited to continue serving this organization that has given me so much throughout my collegiate career.

That being said, this week was the first regular meeting of the semester and it presented a very uncomfortable situation. The outgoing president (we'll call her Jane) from last year is now an alumna, and she attended the meeting as well. The new president was doing a great job, came to pause a few times as she looked through the operations manual for some tricky voting situations, etc.

Every time the new president faltered, Jane piped in, whispering to her what she should be doing. Ok, I get that it can be hard to watch a meeting that isn't going well. When several members asked for status due to jobs though, it got really inappropriate.

President has never run a vote before, and Jane piped in, cutting off both the President and the Parliamentarian, running the vote herself. When it came time for discussion, Jane even spoke in favor/on behalf of several of the members asking for status. Per our bylaws, alumnae have no say in voting matters.

Jane went on to suspend parliamentary procedure for voting matters a few times, overruling our bylaws for the "convenience" of the chapter as some of the members asking for status were officers. I understand the need for having an e-board at the beginning of the semester, but it would be just as easy for the president to appoint an interim officer (allowed by our bylaws) until the elections in 2 weeks, instead of suspending procedure and hosting election the same evening.

I was uncomfortable the entire meeting. Since I'm not officially and advisor, I didn't feel that it was my place to say anything to Jane at the meeting. I know that it needs to be addressed, but the entire situation is complicated by the fact that Jane is my big.

Advice please on how to address this with her? Should I wait until I'm officially an advisor? Should I have a heart to heart with her before then, sister-to-sister?

Being an officer is one of the best learning/personal development experiences one can have. Mistakes are supposed to be a part of the process. Sometimes we forget that and think we are helping when in fact we are hindering.

I say go ahead and talk with her. Otherwise it becomes a huge elephant in the room, and the new president won't be able to work through her learning process quite as well.

who is the advisor? Does the chapter already have some sort of overall advisor?
Also, as painful as it might be, the e-board or president may need to stand up to her. She probably thinks she is helping...

That was my biggest fear. I also served on e-board, and I can't tell you how many mistakes that I made. The comfort that I had was knowing that even when I screwed up that my chapter elected ME to serve in the position because they had faith that I was the best person for the job. I feel like the hand-holding is only going to create a sense of do-they-really-trust-me?

They do. They have 8 advisors (on the books). In the last year only 2 of them have shown up to meetings, hence why the e-board asked me to serve. I'd say on average advisors show up at about 50% of the meetings.

There were none present last night.

Was there an officer transition training? It sounds like Jane was teaching the new president during the meeting, instead of advising her beforehand. Jane's an alumna now, and she shouldn't be this actively involved during the meeting. The current chapter members will probably resent this and see it as interference, instead of helpfulness, if she continues. I would talk with her. She needs to be a mentor, not doing the job herself. Does your organization have training materials for advisors?

To the first- yes, newly elected officers attend a weekend retreat with the current e-board right after elections, and then there are normally 2 meetings at the end of the previous school year where they co-lead. The first meeting the outgoing e-board runs it with the new e-board shadowing, and the 2nd is reversed.

To the second point- I would be highly surprised if Jane was asked to advise as well this year. It's an unspoken rule that you wait at least a year, if not two after graduation before you advise. The reason being is that it gives you time to distance yourself emotionally from the chapter, you won't have as many close friends who are active when you return, and you can be an objective advisor. But yes, there are advisor training materials, and all advisors attend a workshop at the state level after being sworn in.

do alumnae regularly go to chapter meetings without being an advisor? Maybe it can be explained to her that collegate chapter members and approved advisors go to the chapter meetings. Alumnae chapter meetings are for those that have graduated. If she is not an advisor, then she shouldn't be there.

Alumnae are readily welcomed and encouraged to come to meetings. I'd say any given week there are 3 or 4 alumnae present. But it's always been clear that they are there for the fellowship, and not to run the meetings.

In that case, I would definitely talk with her. The distancing rationale/2 year wait is probably designed to prevent just such a situation.

Sometimes alumnae can't fully cope with the idea that they are not a collegian anymore. I saw something similar with an organization that I was in during my college years and eventually the chapter asked for her to stop coming to the meetings. Those of who were no longer in town saw everything that the college group was dealing with via email and she really had overstepped the boundaries.

OP - is it normal to have advisor who are recent grads? In most cases I know where someone does not fit the "2 year out of school" rule they're not an advisor for their own chapter.

Is Jane the President's advisor, or was she just an alumna attending a meeting? If you feel uncomfortable talking to Jane, is there a advisory board chairman who you'd feel could be there with you when you talk to Jane?

It has become more and more normal for recent grads to serve as advisors in recent years for the chapters in our area. Currently the youngest advisor at my chapter is 4 years out, and she's been serving for 2 years already.

I was asked to serve as an advisor fresh out for another chapter in my area, but declined as I felt I was still too fresh and collegiate-minded to be objective, even though it wasn't my collegiate chapter.

Jane was there only as an alumna. I can't say for sure that they're NOT going to ask her to serve as advisor as well, but I don't see it happening. She was offered an advisory position at another chapter (the same one I declined two years ago) and she said no. She told me it was because she doesn't "know them" and she'd rather spend time with "her sisters".

The OP said Jane was the "outgoing President" -- I took this to mean she was the predecessor to the current CP and couldn't resist stepping in to "fix things". Is this the same Jane you're talking about?

LOL - sockpuppet fail?

I saw it this way too. Not necessarily Jane = CP advisor, but it could have been the case.

Couldn't find my log-in information earlier :D Finally found my old password.

i had such a good response and i lost it!

in short: im lane-swerving, but transitioning to alumnae life is hard (regardless of council). the 2 year distance is necessary but its likely that the alumna, if she still lives in the area (or goes to graduate school at the same school) will want to participate - parties, events, rush/recruitment/intake.

You dont want to drive Jane away - its so common for hurt feelings to turn into bitter resentment towards the chapter and organization, so that she is no longer willing to be involved as an alum.

Create a transition plan for both "Jane" and the new President. Be clear in ways Jane can participate and give advice on and where she cannot. Tell her to hold her comments to the end or get them out at the beginning. See to it that the transition plan gets Jane out of the chapter's hair (business-wise, anyway) by the end of the year (or semester, if youre ambitious).

I'm giving an ideal suggestion, not saying it will work. but im echoing a lot of what has already been said.

Alumnae have no business being at a chapter meeting, unless they are making an approved announcement or serving as an advisor. Grow up and join an alumnae association. Your chapter should amend its bylaws immediately and end this nonsense. I'm guessing these alumnae who come to chapter meetings also show up to socials?

Is this an NPC chapter? If so, can a chapter really just "elect" you to be an adviser? I know in DG, you have to volunteer to be an adviser and a regional coordinator will contact you and then pass your information on to the Alumnae Team Coordination at the chapter you would work with.

I kinda agree with others that have said that alumnae should not be attending regular chapter meetings unless there is ritual or some other reason for their visit...unless you are an appointed adviser and your expertise or guidance is needed.

Not talking NPC- I'm a member of two organizations, and trying to keep it vague as I know several collegians from my chapter surf this site.

You want a 21-22 year old to grow up in a 3 month summer after commencement? It's natural to expect that a recent alum will want to still be around. If you pledged as a first-semester freshman and XYZ has been a huge part of your last 4 years, it's really ridiculous to expect that person to just put all that on the shelf, just like that.

I don't get the double speak of "grow up, go alum" and "we as NPC should do a stronger job at getting our members to be active post-collegiate."

Not true for many sororities. Is it true for your own organization, or were you stating your opinion?

Got it. Carry on then. Good luck resolving this situation. :o

I totally agree with ADPiUCF, if we are talking NPC. I have seen time and again brand new alumnae who do not understand their new role as alumnae. Those same women, who would have been highly insulted if new alumnae had interfered with their chapter meetings, are not able to distance themselves from the chapter and jump right in where they should not interfere. ZTA prefers that advisors be at least 4 years removed from their collegiate experience.

We older alums. try to channel the new alums. enthusiasm toward other things that will assist the chapter, while letting the collegiates run their own show.

I'm still stuck on why alumni want to attend the chapter meetings. I am all for them wanting to continue to be involved with the sorority, but it shouldn't be at the meetings where business is being discussed that does not effect them and they should not have input in. If they are attending for "fellowship", may I suggest that they start their own alumni group - if they have not joined one already and hang out with each other and offer their support to the chapter during philanthropy, homecoming, recruitment and other activities.

This is a little bit of a lane swerve, but here are a few observations:

1) Is there some sort of adviser hierarchy? Is there someone who sort of oversees all of the other alumnae advisers? I'd go to her first with this issue.

2) After 1) and assuming they dealt with it, you ought to wait until it's official and you're an adviser. You want to be able to come from a position of legitimacy and not appear to simply be meddling in affairs which the recent alumna might think are none of your business.

3) Make sure you're the most appropriate person to deal with this. If not, bring it to the attention of whoever is the most appropriate.

4) Finally, I'm not sure how your meetings are run, but it might be appropriate (again, if you're the appropriate person to be advising these folks) to instruct your parliamentarian and President to enforce strict parliamentary procedure (if applicable) in that you don't get to speak unless you are recognized by the chair and that it is a privilege, not a right for an alumna to be recognized at a chapter meeting.

I sent a text to Jane earlier just mentioning a few of my concerns casually and she sent me back a rather long response because she realized after meeting that she had acted out of line. She apologized to the president, and told me that if she starts doing it again to just kick her under the table :p:D

I think you hit the nail on the head re: parliamentary procedure. That will eliminate 80% of the issues with actives and alum

Good! :)

[QUOTE=tld221;2173254]You want a 21-22 year old to grow up in a 3 month summer after commencement? QUOTE]

Yes. That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Otherwise, you're the creepy old guy at the fraternity house leering at the freshmen girls during parties. By your logic, it's totally cool for a high school graduate to keep coming around to his high school clubs after he graduates. Once you graduate, you are not a member of the chapter anymore, you are not paying dues there anymore, and you have no reason to be attending (much less speaking) at a collegiate chapter meeting.

I don't understand how 21-22 makes you creepy. maybe in your example above, but if youre a recent alum, you probably have friends who are still in the chapter. are you supposed to just stop coming around?

i get the business side - alumni shouldnt be at official business or (maybe?) rituals. heck, even rush events are iffy (that's a numbers thing - your chapter of 15 girls could use one more body, but a chapter of 50, nah). but the occasional picnic or similar get together shouldn't be something this girl couldnt attend without being the "creepy old girl."

She's probably not there to be besties with the Fall 2012 pledge class, but she may hang out with her Fall 08/09 bigs/littles.

In your particular GLO, maybe. Once I graduated, I was/am still a member of my chapter for life, and part of my alumnae dues go to my chapter. I cannot vote at a chapter meeting, but I may participate fully as long as I follow parliamentary procedure (which is what "Jane" now realizes she should have done).

While alumni participation in certain events may be "creepy" or unacceptable in your GLO or GLO experience, it is quite the norm and even expected in other GLOs. You've been on these boards awhile--surely you've picked up on the fact that there are variations in greek life.

Yeah ADPiUCF -it's not always like what you describe. My collegiate chapter doesn't have an open door policy-but I did attend several meetings as a casual observer. Mostly because something like a lavaliering was going to occur after meeting or sometimes just to visit with my still active littles for fun (now that they are all finished it has to be a very special occasion for me to show up though).

You do have to ask first, but it's not usually a big deal for my chapter and we all stay in line and just sit and enjoy the meeting. If we have something vital to say we ask the president for permission to speak, but otherwise it's just a fun time and that's that.

As far as chapter association- it's like pulling teeth getting women to stay involved even though they love our organization. We're slowly changing that, but it's been a long two years!

Haha... didn't even look at the usernames! Why would you have two accounts?!

Bolded for emphasis- our normal business agenda usually has a segment for Alum comments. Many of us work or volunteer for organizations who often have opportunities for philanthropy, or we might have a handout from professional conferences that we think would benefit the members (leadership development training, etc)

Locked myself out of this account, and didn't want to wait until I got home to do a password recovery (can't access the email from work). Finally remembered the password halfway through the afternoon, and wanted replies emailed to my primary email

AKA I had a blonde moment ;)

^^^This!

I just looked at your old posts then google and OMG. Why would you use this name again?

Get Jane a good (or at least tiring) job and a consistent booty call. I guarantee she will stop coming to chapter meetings.

I don't think it "creepy" to show up at events after you're an alumnae (I guess if pre-graduation deactivation is rife at your school you would be deluded enough to think this, but whatever) but as someone who has sat through oodles of sorority and fraternity meetings, I assure you, I would never WANT to sit through another one that wasn't mandatory, unless I was asked or for something special like BabyPink mentioned. (Or unless these meetings have wine.)