Cardinal Rule Broken by Our Greek Advisor ;-(
 

Hi everyone,

Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread and my original post. Thank you for helping me sort all this out and for your honesty, as usual. I apologize if I offended anyone. Not my intention. Peace out.

Here's a 10-year old thread on the subject.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/ar...p/t-17203.html

No one then could point to a specific rule forbidding this. 10 years is a long time though and rules could have been amended. If you can quietly and discretely get ahold of the rules and determine whether or not anything wrong happened here that's fine. I imagine your research will likely lead to the conclusion that it's not specifically proscribed, but it looks icky (for lack of a better word). If that's all you've got, your campus could probably do without some sort of a scandal. If your research reveals that there is a problem, I certainly would bring the issue to your adviser so that she might first have the opportunity to address it in a constructive manner.

If you decide to make this a confrontational affair, you may very well alienate the administration and consider the rest of your term wasted in terms of any ability you're going to have to accomplish any sort of agenda.

I could only tell you how to deal with this within an NIC group and specifically my NIC group only. In Sigma Nu, our Law states at Art. 4, Section 2.2 "NO DUAL MEMBERSHIP. No Chapter shall elect or initiate into the FRATERNITY any member or former member of a General College Fraternity, except as provided by this Article." (The Article doesn't have anything further which is of any help).

If it came to my attention that we had this issue and we were dealing with an alumnus who had graduated more than 2 years ago, I'd have to first go to the High Council (or national governing board) and file a complaint there. Assuming the High Council approved the filing of the complaint, I'd have to then give the Defendant notice (there are procedures for that) and a trial would be commenced wherein the active chapter would be the jury. The only question before the body would be whether the Defendant is a member of more than one general college fraternity, once a verdict is given, this can be appealed to the High Council and then to our Grand Chapter (our national convention). I left a lot of details out, but you get the idea. In Sigma Nu, such grey areas are decided by collegiate chapters and then are subject to appeal. It's a potentially nasty and confrontational process. I've been through it a couple of times. Not pleasant in the least.

Know your facts before proceeding. If there's any grey area, I'd leave it alone.

It is a big deal to those of us who are well beyond college years, too. She might be a great administrator, but I personally do question her. On what grounds? I don't know. But I don't feel as tough she made the correct decision and it would indeed have been a deal-breaker if I was on the panel.

It's not JUST that she did it... it's that she felt so entitled to do it that she was comfortable enough to state it in an interview.

You may be in the minority. You may even be "alone." But I don't like it one bit.

At the same time, there are probably a lot of confidentiality/employment ethics at play here, so I definitely wouldn't tell anyone if I were you, because it would end up reflecting more poorly on you than her.

The rules of one NPHC sorority clearly state:

Any female student currently enrolled at a college or university where there is an active chapter on campus or in the city is eligible to apply for membership, provided that ... <snip> the student is not a member of any society holding membership in the National Pan-Hellenic Council, Inc. or the Panhellenic Conference, Inc.

That said, I think it's best to leave this one alone.

Everyone said what I was thinking...I don't like it at all, but I'm not sure you can/should do anything to try to change it.

Sounds like she was upfront with the NPHC (if what she's telling you is true?) when she joined.

Not saying what she did was right. But maybe the NPC/NPHC rules were unclear 10 (or so?) years ago when she joined the NPHC org.

Delta is among the GLOs that explicitly states applicants cannot be initiated members of another NPC and NPHC sorority. Racial and ethnic minority (which is the predominant demographic of NPHC GLOs) PNMs are still relatively rare at most schools. Therefore, it is very rare for such an NPC member to become an NPHC aspirant. In turn, it is extremely rare for an NPCer to successfully become an NPHCer. There are the extremely rare instances where a couple of people will slip through the cracks over the years.

Personally, based on the bit of the OP that I read so forgive me if I missed some key points, I would handle the situation by placing an anonymous call to the NPHC sorority's headquarters. It does not matter whether people at your school like her and are fascinated with her knowledge and experience. It does not matter whether the people at your school are oblivious to what is going on. The fact of the matter is some of our GLOs do not mince words when it comes to this stuff.

This might not be a bad idea. I might consider running it by your school's general counsel (or better, a private attorney licensed to practice in your state) first to make sure you're not violating any confidentiality agreements you may have signed in the course of the interview process or might be breaking any laws by making such a disclosure.

The rules have been clear for much longer than 10 years. They were definitely clear when I was an aspirant and that was almost 20 years ago. This person knows what she got away with. She would probably not bring this up in front of certain people. Those people probably include other NPHCers, many of her sorors, and members of her alumnae chapter.

Co-sign. Good way to handle it without being in the middle of the fracas...

Gotcha...was attempting to give benefit of the doubt...wanted to see glass 1/2 full...all that other metaphor BS. :D

I tend to think that for this reason, things will blow up in her face without somebody actively dropping a dime on her. Word will get out eventually to these people.

I would not run it by anyone first. There is no confidentiality agreement in this person boasting about both NPC and NPHC membership. The info could have come from anywhere as far as the GLO NHQ's concerned.

If the story given to the OP is to be believed, and the NPHC sorority knew about her NPC membership and approved her anyway, then nothing can be done and technically no rules were broken.

I don't know how many (if any) of the NPCs have written rules about joining an NPHC after being initiated into an NPC. She may stand to lose her NPC membership, but it doesn't sound like she cares.

Either way, IF THERE ARE NO RULES AGAINST IT, how is this much different than being in an NPHC and APhiO or an NPC and SAI?

I would think seriously about making an anonymous phone call before you do it.

She is much loved by your community. If you get fingered as the person who made the call, there is going to be a lot of backlash towards you. It's going to cause a lot of drama. If she is not a member of your GLO, either NPC or NPHC, she hasn't broken any agreements to any group that you have a responsibility for. Is it really worth it to protect someone else's GLO?

I would expect that since you have questioned her on this issue, you will be the one fingered as having made the call to her organizations.

I was a whistle blower in college. The backlash, hard feelings, and hangover from that have made me very cautious about ever doing it again. It would have to be something that effects me and mine very directly or something extremely damaging (ie. Enron or Sandusky) before I would be a whistle blower again.

This wouldn't be worth it to me, if it wasn't my GLO. There's a lot of stuff that people do that is wrong. Choose very carefully which issues are worth making a stand on.

I wish that NPC groups didn't do such a poor job of keeping members engaged after college.

Slow down there. Remember, the OP's duty is not to the NPHC organization or the NPC organization unless it's hers or unless there's some greenbook something which requires mandatory reporting. Her first duty is to the university's students. A disclosure like this could definitely do more harm than good to the university's students by placing the Greek system in chaos.

If OP goes and does something about this is will blow up in OP's face. Best to let this come out on it's own as it will inevitably happen when the time is right.

I could easily see her getting busted, say, at a staff function of some sort when some clueless person on the interview panel introduces her to an NPHC-er: "Myrna is a member of both XYZ and ABC! Isn't that just lovely?" WOMP WOMP.

There are two ways to look at this (and I definitely agree with you).

There's the thought that NPC orgs suck as alumnae engagement. Having now supervised/mentored a member of an NPC organization, I do find it startling how few opportunities there are for her to use her sorority as a method of professional and personal advancement outside of college.

On the other hand, the women's fraternal movement/NPC specifically has always had organizations that (prior to desegregation and such - white) women were able to join, such as Junior League, OES, and whatever else is out there of a civic, service, and social nature.

Meanwhile, African American families have only far more recently (past century) had similar outlets available to them, and that outlet itself has been the NPHC sororities and fraternities.

So what do I mean by that in 2012? I mean that NPC women "graduate" to other organizations, if they feel so inclined, while NPHC women "graduate" to alumnae chapters of their own organizations.

There is also a very real cachet which comes with being in an NPHC sorority, in the form of community respect and such.

That said, NPC organizations probably need to to compare their alumnae experience to that of the Junior League and whatever else it is that women are joining in the mainstream in order to keep women engaged.

(I have said, similarly, that Alpha Phi Omega needs to look at the Kiwanis, Jaycees, and other civic/service organizations to measure itself against.)

Sorry for rambling... I just wanted to say I agree with you and provide some observations.

Call her NPHC headquarters immediately. I would also ask them to impress upon your college that this is 5000 kinds of wrong and she should be removed from her position.

People - this is TEN YEARS AGO. That's NOT that long, and certainly long enough that the rules about not having dual membership were in place (not to mention long enough to look up all these things on the internet). We are not talking about a sweet little old lady who forgot that she joined KKG in 1954. We are talking about a 32 year old woman who apparently is very good at preying on chapters with low enough self esteem to accept this shiz.

Can you imagine if this got out what it would do to the rush process - for ALL conferences - at this school? People would be demanding to change groups left and right, because this woman is setting such a horrid example.

NPC organizations are moving that way, but all of the generations of members already lost to JL et cetera are unlikely to come back. We'll have to rely on efforts to capture the current, future, and recent generations.

LOL. There is a reason why the OP brought this to GC rather than talking to the people in the Greek system at the school. I doubt the people in the Greek system will tell the OP to call the GLO NHQ. Then the OP will have no choice but to get over it all.

I'm hopeful for that day and feel similarly about Alpha Phi Omega.

I'd leave it alone.

I think it will cause a whole lot more damage to the school and its Greek life if it's allowed to blow up in public like it eventually will.

This woman obtained this position in part by using the fact that she knowingly broke the rules as a selling point.

Anonymous calls to both organizations may quietly resolve this without a complete public meltdown that will harm the overall system at the school.

Will people assume it was you? Of course. But she has mentioned it to enough people where there will always be doubt.

I can't blame you for advocating for what is very possibly our own organization. That said, I'm just providing information and recommendations just the same as you are.

If you don't even think the people in the Greek system at OP's school would advocate for her turning this into the national organizations, then whose best interests are you advocating for here? OP is the president of her student body, not the dual membership police.

OP has a lot more to lose than one would expect. As a person who has had to bear the truth when no one wanted to hear it, I can tell you they always shoot the messenger.

As I said, if this gets around (and apparently this woman has diarrhea of the mouth to the point that it will) it will damage the chapters as people will be thinking it's OK to quit one, join another, the same way as you get a new apartment in the fall. That is exactly the sort of thing a student body president should be concerned about as it can do great harm to the Greek system.

I also really wonder how many people who are saying to let it go would be saying the same thing if she had joined 2 different NPCs. :rolleyes:

That is not what I am doing and I do not assume that this has to do with my sorority.

Yes, we are all providing recommendations. I am responding to your response to me. I recommend calling the NPHC GLO NHQ. The OP will figure out what to do.

The way things were described, this will get around on its own and someone will probably turn it in. If this woman was as open about her dual affiliation during the interview process as was described, she'll be open about it later.

You're suggesting that if this dual membership issue is made public as if that will lead to some sort of chaos on its own. I doubt that the individual groups on this campus would actually accept such a situation.

As to whether this would be the same if it was between two different NPCs, I think we'd have a brightline rule that it's a no-no. Going back to that '02 thread, no one, including you, seemed to have a clue as to any specific prohibition. While one NPHC group might have that specific prohibition, it's entirely possible that neither the NPC nor the affected NPHC have such a thing, but might instead have some sort of rule like the one I posted from Sigma Nu which could really be argued both ways.

Wait, wait, wait. I saw, in this thread, Dr. Phil speaking to the policy of DST, and someone else posted a policy for an NPHC group that may or may not have been DST. I didn't see how we got from there to "all NPHC groups have a rule against accepting NPC members." Is that indeed the case?

I don't think we ever got there. NPHC is not a governing body as I understand it and therefore would not be able to promulgate or enforce such rules even if it wanted to.

Ditto.

Thank you all for your responses.

It wouldn't be hard for the OP to verify whether or not the greek advisor is indeed an initiated member of her own organization - AFAIK most NPC groups can verify that through the member-only sections of their inter/national websites. That might lay to rest some of her own fears about this being a member of her group.

As far as figuring out which NPC, well, I'll assume that it's a limited pool. Particularly limited in the sense that this woman is not solely dedicated to Greek Life - I'd imagine there are very few chapters on campus (this is not a U of I or IU situation - they have a dedicated Greek Life staff). Even smaller campuses (for example, my campus had 5 women's groups, and between 4 and 6 men's groups, for NPC and IFC, then two community-based chapters for NPHC women's groups) often have a dedicated Greek Advisor, PLUS a director of student life (which is what it seems this position is).

To be quite honest, I'd sit on the information as long as possible then make a call after I graduated. Sounds douchey, but everyone will know it was you, OP.

It's interesting to me that she doesn't "claim" her NPC sorority yet did not terminate her membership.

I'd leave it at that then. If she says the NPHC group took her knowing what it was doing and that the proper inquiries were made, then either she lied in the interview, which I think is unlikely since she disclosed the dual membership thing in the first place, or she's telling the truth and there's nothing to worry about here except for the NPC and whether she violated something with them. That, however, is also an issue that just doesn't really need to get dredged up. You're best off leaving things alone.

Are you high?

My response in that thread has nothing to do with what you're saying.

And if you don't understand what I was saying re 2 NPCs...that's part of the problem.

I'm not sure if this women knows that she broke the rules. Did she say outright that she knew that it was against the rules of an organization? Did she know, act, or omit that the practice is "frowned upon"? If the answer is yes to either of these questions, than there are other issues here. If it's no, and she truly has no idea what she has done rocks the boat in being a member in both organizations (presumably), then that tells you she has little to no understanding of membership in Greek Organizations, which I think would be important for someone in her position.

In any event, I agree with everyone else who has said, if she isn't afraid to share this information, she will continue to share it and get caught by someone else/look like a moron. Or she will get introduced at some conference or meeting and shiz will blow up. Let this one take care of itself. Keep your head down, your mouth shut and watch it unfold until its an appropriate time to speak. If anyone asks why you didn't speak up earlier, you say that you did during the interview process and you were ignored.

There is a huge difference between an NPHC GROUP taking her and an NPHC CHAPTER taking her. Of course she's going to say that headquarters said there was nothing wrong with it - whether they really did or not. That may have been what the chapter told her. At any rate, any woman who is employed as a Greek advisor should know enough to at least keep her mouth shut, if she realized after the fact that what she did was wrong.

Am I high? No. If other people are having trouble understanding what you write and you're not being explicit enough, that's on you. This would be a different issue if it's between two NPCs because all NPC groups have mutual agreements that dual membership shall not exist. There is no such agreement with NPHC groups and the issue is not nearly as clear. While it has been established that 1/9 groups definitely has such a prohibition, that's 1/9.

The question here is not whether a wrong has been done, but whether a rule has been broken. That's a threshold issue.

Get past that before you throw another silly tantrum.