School with Lowest Percentage accepted?
 

Does anyone know what the college/university is where the smallest percentage of the women who go through rush are accepted?

Maybe a school with a bed rush, like Indiana.

That's exactly what I was going to guess since placement rate is about 50% depending on how you figure it and if you figure in the women who attend open houses but don't have the grades to return in January.

As much as it pains me to admit it, I'd think it's IU. We have a god awful placement rate between bed numbers and drop outs

Just to make sure I understand, Bed Rush is basically "Alpha Sigma Alpha expects to have 15 open beds in the house in August and Delta Gamma expects to have 30 open beds in the house in August. Therefore the number of pledges that Delta Gamma can take is higher than the number that Alpha Sigma Alpha can take and those pledge numbers are (more or less) calculated from the number of open beds."

Here's a quote from the 1978 Arkansas Razorback (yearbook):

"Bid Day meant more disappointments than usual as 623 women competed for only 264 spots."

Arkansas had bed rush back in the day. I will never, ever see what the reasoning is behind it. If recruitment numbers are high, why should everyone need to live in the house?

How will IU's Bed Rush change with ASA and TPA as non-housed sororities (since there is no Campus Total)?

KSUViolet--no, but I remember what it was like on campus. I posted my rush story, including how my roommate and one of the other cheerleaders each went to 2 prefs and didn't get a bid.

Somewhere out there are hundreds of women who should have been Greek at Arkansas who weren't and harbor huge resentment against sororities.

Why does Indiana want to be the special, perfect snowflake, and rainbow campus? I certainly understand campus traditions, but times change. Compared to other large Greek campuses, their growth is miniscule in comparison. If you try to keep large numbers out of the system with the record freshman numbers, what will happen to the whole system if freshman class numbers start to drop off in a few years?
Do they want to end up like UT Austin and possibly have fewer numbers going through recruitment because potential members don't want the stress and drama of formal recruitment....

Ladybug12, I think that's why they are doing some non-housed expansion. It's a big risk on the part of the sororities who choose to do it because for all the talk about not needing a chapter house and this provides more girls the opportunities and benefits of membership, etc. etc., there has to be actual girls who will sign on the dotted line.

I think back in the day sorority = house so the thought of being in a sorority and not living in just didn't equate. Now of course that is not true, both for schools without chapter houses and for chapter memberships that far exceed the house capacity. But change comes slow. And the chapter houses at IU are huge. I can completely see them thinking their chapter sizes as currently housed are perfectly big enough. So you can expand by adding more housed chapters, with land being a huge road block, or adding non-housed chapters which goes against 100 years of sorority tradition. I think the non-housed option can succeed with some very painful growing pains in the process. And it's not going to be quick. But I guess time will tell!

Bed rush won't change at all for the 19 housed chapters. ASA and TPA can set their own quota based on how large they would like to be. At Indiana size does not equal strength. Tri Delta has a smaller, yet beautiful, chapter house with virtually no live outs. Even though they are the smallest chapter on campus, they are very much sought after by PNMs. I am sure HoosierGirl88 can confirm that size does not matter in this case. :D

This is definitely the problem. The Indiana chapters and their alumnae base does not want to change. I do think chapter size plays a huge role in that reluctance to change. I do believe there is a fear that chapters will get to 200+ members. Chapters range from 110-165 in the fall, then after January recruitment their numbers increase anywhere from 30-90 depending on the size of the pledge class. I have heard that the last few chapter meetings of the year are awfully crowded. Also, the chapters like the elitism. They believe that since half the women who start recruitment don't receive a bid, it makes them feel like they accomplished something. I know that may sound harsh, but I hear it almost every time I am on campus.

I hope that the unhoused chapter idea does work. I hate to see so many great young women who can't participate in Greek life because there just aren't enough spots. If IU isn't going to move away from bed rush, the unhoused chapters are a viable alternative.

And just think what those houses could look like with more members to pay fees!

I can not believe that our nationals can't put an end to it. Think of how many more members we'd all have if IU used a quota system like everyone else does.

My husband's beautiful cousin is a freshman at IU this year. I don't think she's rushing and I'm relieved.

You could get a Pi Phi in the family at Indiana...just sayin'. :D

Any of the 20 chapters involved could make a difference, but it would take a monumental effort to promote any sort of change there.

Indiana was actually a school my daughter was interested in. I flat out said NO. Also UT even though all my husband's family is there AND she attended summer camp in TX. I don't need the heart ache or drama and there are plenty of other schools that she is interested in with nice Greek Systems where there is a better chance she will receive a bid.

From the chapter end: I think most chapters would love to see the bid rate be higher, but at the same time, IU really equates sorority life with living in the house. In addition, we love knowing almost every girl in the house and being very close with our PC's. I know with my house, our nationals are pushing us to get bigger and bigger and bigger, and it's very frustrating. We obviously are willing to expand, but at the same time, it eventually becomes logistically and physically impossible to get much bigger. When you're limited by the boundaries of the chapter house for things like chapter, you can only fit x number of girls into your dining room/chapter room. How then do you choose which girls get to go to chapter? It feels like herding cats! I think some of the smaller chapters also are more elitist. Delta Delta Delta, for example, is one of (if not THE) smallest chapter, but they're also in most girls' top 5 when they initially form opinions. We're willing to give some, but we don't want to be SEC big.

My own opinion: Something has got to give eventually. The way we do things now is dysfunctional and leads to so many girls hating the greek system. At the same time, adding non-housed chapters isn't the best option either since girls are going "hmmm, 19 houses versus 2 unhoused? I want the real sorority experience...I'm only going to look at the traditional 19." I think a compromise by removing the senior live-in requirement would be a good start...although girls will hate it since housing is so limited. But by senior year, most girls want out of the chapter house.

Where do non-Greeks generally live?

To go along with the question above - When you say housing is limited do you mean dorms or do you mean there aren't many rental houses/apartment complexes available around the school or both?

Wait, so all the greek girls at IU live in house? For all four years?

The pledges live in the house during the pledge period?

Indiana has quite a lot of dorm space. The university has been in the process of renovating the dorms, creating different types of living experiences. There are lot of apartments and rental houses in Bloomington. There is definitely not a shortage of housing. Off campus housing is available at all price points.

For the most part, yes. Just a few chapters have live out policies, last I heard 7 chapters such policies. If the seniors who wanted to live out were allowed to, each chapter could take at least 30 more women.

No, IU has deferred recruitment in January. New members do not move in until the following fall.

^^^In that case what does IUHoosiergirl88 mean when she says girls would hate that because housing is so limited?

I understand girls wanting to live in. My daughter definately felt it helped her bond with her chpapter even for the two quarters she lived in and she feels like its definately beneficial for a pledge class to live together for a year, maybe even two, but I think if they'd had to do it for four - the town's domestic violence rate would have spiked significantly....along with the homicide rate.

I'll let her clarify, but I do know there is a lot of campus housing available. The last alumni magazine I received in the mail had a big feature story on the dorm renovations and how more students are staying in campus housing past freshman year. Also, a new dorm was built behind the Kelley School of Business for just b-school students. There are a ton of rental props around the stadium, downtown and around the mall areas. If you can't find housing in Bloomington you're just not looking! However, the premium areas can be really high priced. There are several apartment complexes now that are high end and cost much more than Greek housing.

^^^That sounds more like what I would expect in a college town. I kind of thought when it sounded like housing was limited "What are the real estate developers in Indiana thinking because in down market - there's a gold mine." At least that's been the case at U of O where they can't put up apartment complexes and dorms fast enough. Yeah, it's going to be a little more expensive, but weighing that out with the alternative - lots of heartbroken, angry girls- that telling girls they can only live in one or two years and going to a quota system would seem like a simple and obvious solution, but to each their own I guess.

LOL. We live in for a year and as long as you are on exec. I loved it but I think that's plenty.

Just clarifying...you said NO to IU and UT because you didn't feel like they'd be a good academic fit for your daughter, or did you seriously tell her she couldn't go to SCHOOL somewhere because of the chance she may not get a SORORITY bid?

Back to clarify what I meant! There's not a 'shortage' of off-campus housing per say, but if you're looking to room with more than 1 other person, you sign leases for houses in September/October for the next school year, nicer apartments are gone by December. There's a lot of competition, and a lot of the apartments are, for lack of a better phrase, hell holes. (Case in point: my BF's apartment has mice in the walls and cabinets right now and they won't do a thing about it. They poop on his dishes! We're buying mousetraps this week) The on-campus apartments outside of Union Street aren't places people really want to live unless it's a last resort, as they're expensive and have rather unflattering nicknames to describe the people living inside of them. Girls don't and won't go back to the dorms because there is a stigma that people who live in the dorms more than one year are socially inept, basically. Plus they're expensive and a pricey meal plan is basically required.

So in the end, girls are like well...I can move to a tiny apartment, compete for a house, or stay in my mansion where someone cooks and cleans for me. Other than seniors...it seems like a pretty obvious choice!

I don't want to come across like I'm arguing with you at all - I promise I'm not. I get that every campus culture is different and if this is how girls see it at IU - well, it is what it is. It's just that how different schools in different parts of the country do things interests me, and I can't quite wrap my head around this one.

I get not wanting to live in a hell hole, not wanting to live in the dorms more than one year (that seems to be a stigma at a lot of schools), and not wanting to pay a fortune for an apartment and the advantages to living in.

The bolded is what I don't get. If Indiana changed the system and told girls upfront that they would only be living in the house 1, 2, or 3 years (whatever they decided), so the girls knew at least a year in advance they were going to have to find other housing - what would keep them from signing leases in September/October for the next school year and getting the good apartments well before December? I
guess I'm not following the timeline here.

Also - the nicknames given to people living in some of the apartments would bother them? What sorority or fraternity hasn't been given an unflattering nickname by someone? A college junior or senior would care about that? That just kind of baffles me.

Of course, sorority women would have to tell me on this one - I don't know - all I have to go on is my daughter's feelings on the subject - but it seems to me that in terms of bonding and sisterhood, there would be a point of "diminishing returns" in that after four years of living, working and socializing with mostly the same say 100 girls you would go from sisterhood to "Get within 50 feet of me and I'm going to freakin' strangle you," pretty quick. Come to think of it - that's how I felt about my biological sister a good part of the time and there was just one of her.

Cooking and cleaning aside - personally I'd want some privacy and independence by junior year....at the latest. I guess I just can't picture that many girls doing that well together over that length of time but if IU's making it work - hats off to them.

In Champaign, you have to sign in Septemberish to get the best places for the following year, and we manage. Also, women with great apartments or houses will often "pass them down" to women in their chapters, i.e. recommend them to the landlord and make sure they get first shot at them.

You are right more than you can even know. I lived in 3 years, and the last year I had a single, probably for the health and welfare of the rest of the house. I don't regret having lived in that year, and it may serve to nudge you out of the nest, as it were, but it definitely gets to be a strain.

Trust me, by my senior year, I was going insane. I wanted to live out just so I could cook my own meals. My house went from a 4 year to a 3 year live in policy (or until you're a senior, depending on if you rushed as a freshman or sophomore) and girls whined at first, but they're used to it now. As long as you give them advance notice...like saying that starting with the 2013-2014 school year, seniors will have to live out, I think it's fine.

In terms of the first, I guess an unflattering nickname was a poor choice of words. IU has a large Asian population, and when they move out of the dorms, they move to the on campus apartments...IU students in general thus avoid the on campus apartments like the plague. They're also extremely outdated.

Without knowing much about the specific culture of your school - I would agree with your first paragaph in that people as whole typically whine about changes to longstanding traditions and then adjust pretty well after the change go into effect.

As to the bolded - hmmm...I've lived in Pacific Rim states (Oregon/Washington) for 30 years now. A large percentage of our population is Asian or Asian-American and our universities reflect that. I can't say I haven't heard that sentiment but why would someone want to avoid apartments like a plague because a lot of Asian kids live there?

As an IU outsider who now lives and breathes IU recruitment info ( okay, that might be a bit dramatic) yes, IU is brutal. On both sides. Most groups already have a rough idea of what quota will be for them in January. I have also heard rumors of some of the groups with senior live out policies getting rid of them now that there are additional sororities. Which is nice for budgeting...
I will also say that a few years ago NPC visited campus to try and get the campus to move away from bed rush. From the papers I have seen, the presentation wasn't very well received. Then again the approach left much to be desired. (at least that is my impression after reading all the meeting minutes and the notes from the presentation)

Poor souls must not enjoy Asian food. :p

You refused to allow your daughter to consider schools only based on their Greek systems?

Isn't part of the allure based on how "exclusive" the club is? Do you think there would be as much desire to join if there were spaces for all (provided there was adequate housing otherwise available?)

Yes, to an extent. Each chapter could still add 5 women to their bid lists and place 100 more women overall. Just adding 5 spots would increase the percentage placed by 5%. It would place more women and still have the chapter size the chapters seem to want. The bed quota just makes it odd because the chapters range in size so drastically. Just making a campus total would make the situation better, in my opinion. Even with a uniform total, there would still be stronger and weaker chapters, and I think that it is/was IU thrives on unfortunately. (The previous statement is personal opinion and based on past experience and college women I talk to when on campus in the fall.) I don't think the chapters at IU want to be at 300, which they would be if the placement rate was average. I don't think I would have liked a chapter that large, but who knows? If that's all I knew, I guess it wouldn't make a difference.