12-year-old tased by police officer
 

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/711741/thu...ASED-large.jpg

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1729527.html

I really don't see anything wrong with this.

The girl was 15, not 12.

Also, traffic citations? With her record, she really needs to take care of her tickets.

Charlene Elizabeth Bratton plead guilty to drug trafficking in 2008 and again in 2009. She plead guilty to possession of marijuana in 2009. This lady is a felon and if she's saying that her daughter was just standing there innocently and was tazed, I'm not buying it.

Dejamon Baker is 12 years old. Dejamon Baker was tasered by the police officer.

Whatever. Looking at the mother's record, I'm not buying the mother's story, nor the daughters. If you interfere with a police officer and only get the tazer and no criminal charges, that's a good day.

No, not whatever. Dejamon Baker is 12 years old.

I can understand a CHILD crying and being frantic if a parent is being (what the child may perceive as) randomly arrested at the mall. The 12-year-old CHILD was the only person tasered.

Controlling for her mother's traffic warrants, perhaps you would view tasering a 12 year old child differently if she looked like this 12 year old girl:

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/im...ss_FiT_OyEZ8ML

Nope and what a classless move to even suggest as much.

I don't care how old the child was. If she was not obeying lawful orders and the officer followed appropriate procedures for escalation of force, that's all I care about. Ultimately, what the officer did prevented all involved from escalating the violence any further and much to my surprise, only the mother went to jail that day. It sounds like the officer used a lot of discretion in not charging the other individuals who were interfering.

From the story, apparently another adult was also engaged in the resistance. This felon-mother wasn't going away quietly.

You should have stuck with "no" and left out the "classless" edit. You would not be the first person whose opinions are shaped by appearance.



If I did not think the words "class," "classy," and "classless," were really stupid when not dealing with social class and socioeconomic status, I would say that it is "classless" for you to believe that a child of any age should be tased.

My first edit was a lot more crass. What you implied there was a jackass thing to imply.

I'm sure the officer would have loved to hear you lecture him about class and white privilege and such while he was effecting an arrest on a felon with her 12-year old and other adults interfering in the arrest.

If you don't pay your tickets, you go to the pokey. You resist a police officer, you get hurt. Actions have consequences and stupidity knows no race or class.

Very poor job of reporting by Huff Post, not by you, Dr. Phil. The warrants were for drug TRAFFICKING, not traffic tickets.

Looks to me like this child might have seen her mother arrested on a couple of other occasions...

Are you getting that from the comments? I checked the Missouri courts page and there aren't any currently filed cases pending for drug charges. In fact, the last thing she was convicted of was marijuana possession in '09 and before that, trafficking in the 2nd degree.

Of course I'm not sure at what point those charges would show up online. 'Round here, we can access everything from the probable cause affidavit to the original charges online before the arrest warrant even comes down. Mizzou might be different.

At any rate, I sort of doubt it was for trafficking considering she was apparently able to afford to post bail as she would have been unavailable for that interview otherwise.

And I stand behind that post 100%.

As evidenced by....


You completely missed what I was saying in that post. Completely. That is okay because you have confirmed why I stand behind my other post 100%.

Every reputable news source that I found states "traffic tickets." There are some ignorant forums that state "drug trafficking." If you can find news sources that confirm that it is drug trafficking, please post the links.

That does not mean that a 12 year old child should be tasered but I do like to have the correct facts.

From what I have found, she at least one prior conviction for trafficking which is still open. She has other cases which are closed--about 5 or 6 criminal charges. She ain't good people.

I kind of doubt a county sheriff would have hunted this lady down in a Victoria Secret without there being some other reason to arrest her on just a traffic ticket though.

That said, I can find no evidence of trafficking charges and I would think that at this stage, there'd be something online.

Try this: https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/ca...earchType=name

and enter her name Charlene E Bratton and note the criminal drug cases for several years.

Does that mean that she was being arrested for a drug trafficking warrant last week?

:) I should create a thread about Charlene E. Bratton because this thread is about a 12 year old child being tasered.

None of those cases are very current.

No, it's about taking Charlene E Bratton, convicted felon at her word when she tells us her tale of woe about an arrest. It's much more likely that the 12-year old and the accompanying adults were refusing to obey lawful orders and acting in a threatening manner than the officer tazing a little girl for "just standing there." You've picked the wrong side of this fight and probably because of the skin color of the alleged victim.

No, this thread is about a 12 year old being tasered. That is why it is titled "12 year old tase(re)d by police officer."

But let's not pretend that no thread ever gets derailed. Although, I'm not really sure I'd consider this a derailment. I think the train is just headed in a different direction.

:confused: Whatever... I was just trying to answer the question that you asked about the mother.

Read the information in the article from the officer's report. That's probably what happened. A 12-year old girl can be as much of a danger to an officer as anyone else. Especially when other adults are involved.

And since some of you do not think this is a derailment or a mere clarifying the details, I again state that this thread is about a 12 year old child being tasered.

Kevin does not care about age. I do. I would like to read what other GCers think instead of reading about Charlene E. Bratton's charges and whether she is being completely honest about the details of what happened at Victoria Secrets. What is fact is that a 12 year old child was tasered by a police officer. No debate there.

Actually, no, you stated that the article(s) was inaccurate. I appreciate your attempt to clarify however (1) the article(s) may very well be accurate; and (2) it only highlighted the mother's history with the criminal justice system as Kevin was doing.

Are there instances where GCers besides Kevin believe children should be tasered?

I work with 11-15 year old "children" every day. They can be extremely violent, think that they are grown, do not listen to instructions in the heat of the moment and are full sized humans. I can completely see an officer using a taser to subdue an unruly 12 year old. Based on my experiences in physically subduing persons this age, the taser will likely result in less physical damage to both participants.

To give one example: I am still dealing with a back injury that happened in November resulting from a 12 year old who was determined to get through me to finish bloodying another one who gave back her sweater smelling "musty." I can imagine that the rage of the 12 year who feels she is protecting her mother is far greater than one who is unhappy about her sweater.

Thank you for your opinion, tcsparky. I know all about unruly and violent children ranging in age from 4 to 17. I went to school with kids like that in the 1980s-1990s and see kids like that today. I also have experience with youth offenders and experience with law enforcement and tasers.

The issue is whether a child's unruly and violent behaviors warrant certain types of responses. When it comes to tasering ADULTS (including those with mental and physical conditions) people can definitely understand it but there remains ongoing debate, extensive research, and challenging of law enforcement procedures. There is research and community involvement regarding tasering adults (and children) with autism and other conditions based on the premise that someone's strength and behavior alone are not the ultimate determinant.

Why is it then unquestioned (by some people) to taser CHILDREN even if the children are being unruly or violent? I can understand there are instances where an officer tasers a child as a last resort but even then, where are the boundaries? Does age not matter as Kevin believes? I also wonder whether the police officer in this instance warned this 12 year old that she will be tasered if she (and the third person) doesn't chill out.

She is a 12 year old, technically still a child. However, she is certainly old enough to know right from wrong. By the age of 12, not 3, not 6, not even 8, but a 12 year old should know better. Trust me, cops do not like having to restrain or taze a child! It is the officers responsibility to do his job to the best of his ability, and sadly this time that meant arresting a mother in front of her child. That is traumatic. That is heartbreaking. I do not doubt that the officer tazed her as a last resort.

I hate how race has been made an issue. Does the race of the officer matter?

Yes, it is widely held the age at which children learn right from wrong. It is before the age of 12. I will keep this in mind the next time people talk about kids just being kids and kids and their silly behaviors. LOL.

Also, please remind me what this child was doing wrong beyond perhaps thinking that she was protecting her parent? Adults sometimes react that way when they feel a loved one is being unfairly targeted. Certainly a child would.

I do not know the race of the officer. Was that mentioned in the articles? I missed it.

HP says (the officer says) the girl and an "unidentified female" charged at him. A 30 second google search says that tasers are not super accurate. If the officer's report is true, then he may have not been aiming for the child, he was just acting in self defense. Or he's a racist pig and he enjoys torturing children in his spare time. Since none of us were there, we have no way of knowing what went down between the sensationalist, i-love-getting-upset-at-things extremes of ZOMG HE TASERED A CHILD and the police-talk report. Like what constitutes "physically interfering"? What happened between the officer trying to arrest the woman and taser time? I have no idea and both sides are going to manipulate the truth in their favor, intentionally or unintentionally.

I'd like to think that, but my experience is that it may have been a last resort or it may have been an over-reaction on the part of the police officer. It happens.

In my opinion, a taser should only be used on a 12-year-old as a true last resort and after a clear warning. Whether that happened here I can't tell from any of the news articles I've seen.

Fucking with a cop is far from being a "silly" behavior where kids are being kids.
Do you have any suggestions what the officer should have done, DrPhil?

He tasered a 12 year old child. There is nothing sensationalist or I-love-getting-upset-at-things about that FACT. There is perhaps something extreme about tasering a child and that is what this thread discussion is about.

I work in a psychiatric facility and have been physically assaulted by children ages 4-17 and up to 6 feet tall (I'm 5'3"). I still am against using a taser on a child for multiple reasons ETA: unless that child is armed with a weapon and has clear intent to do severe harm to his/herself or another person.

The questions I have after seeing the news reports:

1. Was this a one-man arrest? I was under the impression that you would have back up or at least a partner present when trying to arrest a woman in a potentially crowded store so there should be another officer's perspective on what happened unless that's not protocol for SLPD (which is possible).

2. The girl had 2 taser marks--one on her chest and one on her stomach. What exactly was she doing that she needed to be tased twice?

3. Dejamon (not her mother) said she was tased at the store and at the police station; however, someone else should have seen that if it happened. Why hasn't a PD rep released a statement saying "X amount of personnel were present at the station and can attest that did not happen?"

That depends on what "fucking with a cop" means.

Yes. What law enforcement officers did before tasers existed and what law enforcement officers do when they opt not to use tasers.

Even if it is a "derailment," this is nothing new for Greekchat. As we usually say to new users who complain that people aren't answering their questions.. People can respond to whatever they'd like, however they'd like.

Just saying.

But there's clearly a reason why they have them - because whatever they were doing before tasers probably wasn't enough.

That would mean using a baton on an extremity. Many Leos still opt for that. Is that better than a taser? And I'd say that interfering with a cop while he's arresting your mom qualifies as "fucking with a cop." Yes, it's sad and it may have been instinctual for her to protect her mom, but the situation could have gotten much worse had he not done it.

I'm surprised a witness didn't video the whole thing. I'm sure the store has security footage, but I doubt that gets shown publicly.

There is a reason we have a lot of things. That does not mean those things are always the best choice.

No. But you already knew that a baton was not the only option before tasers existed.

I do not believe that a child should be tasered, unless as christiangirl mentioned, that child was armed. As DrPhil mentioned, situations such as this preceded the existence of tasers, so there are alternate ways of handling them.

A child is going to be very distressed witnessing a parent being arrested. Should she have stood back and not interfered? Absolutely, but the fact remains that she is a child whose brain is not fully developed yet who was tasered by an adult (whose brain should be pretty much done, I would hope.)

That being said, all of the articles that I found via google were told from the perspective of the victim. I would like to hear the police department's story and, even more so, from any witnesses on the scene.

The SLPD is unlikely to release any statement describing what happened or making any judgments about it until after an investigation is done.

That doesn't really follow. Sometimes what they were doing before wasn't enough, but sometimes it was. And sometimes it was too much -- tasers provide a less dangerous alternative to using a gun or baton to subdue someone.

The question is whether it is ever appropriate to use a taser on a 12-year-old, and if it is, when is it. I tend to agree with cg that it's only appropriate if necessary to prevent the child from harming him- or herself or others, and then only when less drastic means won't work and when there has been a clear warning.

Aha! My 30 second googling is of use!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21430136/Taser-accuracy

(this is of course explaining how she could have two marks from one tasering in the store, and not touching the possibility that she was tasered at the police station)

I agree with these posts.

I think some of the articles present an unofficial account of what the officer claims happened. The official PD statement, if it is ever released, will be released after the investigation.

For those who believe a child of any age should be tasered, I again ask whether there are any boundaries when dealing with police policies, procedures, and discretion? If there are boundaries, what are the boundaries? If there are none, what are the potential issues with that?

amIblue, the NBC affiliate in St Louis has commentary from someone who claims to be a witness on their webpage. She says the mom and daughter were in a group of people known to be shoplifters in the mall.

She may be 12, but can a guy determine her age just by looking at her? I'm not saying a cop, I'm saying a guy. Most guys are terrible at knowing age just by sight. When I was 12, I certainly didn't look it, and usually that was intentional.