Dirty Rushers :(
 

First of all I realized my username isn't PC, I apologize haha :p

But so basically this is the situation:

I'll be starting a big, competitive school and rushing this month (scary) and I have a few friends going through recruitment simultaneously. Recently one of them told me that a sorority girl be both know basically promised her a bid, talked about how she'd be her future little, and had her take pictures doing that group's handsign. (She showed me evidence of all of the above :() They weren't friends until the last few weeks and it all feels very icky.

I just don't know what to think of this. Is it unfair to weigh that into my opinion of the chapter? I know to keep an open mind, but who knows how prevalent it is or isn't, and why members would do it...Any thoughts? It's not really my business but then again it seems disrespectful to the org.

If the other PNM were my friend, I would tell her that she should go through recruitment and meet everyone before making up her mind. I would also tell her that one member can't guarantee a bid for anyone, no matter how much she likes the PNM. A bid is given by the whole chapter and it's the whole chapter's decision. Don't count on getting a bid just because one sister "promised" you one. She needs to keep an open mind and make the choices that will maximize her chances of getting a bid

I talked to her about it, she definitely understands. It's made her feel the same kind of speculation about the chapter, we can't decide if that's wrong or not :/

If she feels like it was bid promising and wants to take action, she can file a recruitment infraction with Panhellenic Council.

It certainly sounds like a multitude of rush infractions to me, but as much as she is entitled to file a complaint, she needs to weigh the possible consequences if it is discovered that the complaint came from her.

I agree. This sort of thing could have adverse results? I think it might be better to write it all down - times, places, dates, etc and then decide after recruitment. Whether or not she files a formal complaint, she can always give the info to Greek Life or to whatever house she pledges.

This is a total sidebar discussion, BUT, I do think it's what is wrong at competitive schools (not sure about others). The actives are clawing all over themselves to turn in their "friends" in other groups for rush infractions, but the PNM's who are the ones who have the potential to get burned by rush infractions are too scared to say anything. It just seems that the system isn't working to the benefit of the PNM who is stuck in the weird position. We all know countless stories (at least I do?) of PNM's who were promised bids, didn't say anything about it because they were too scared, and then were burned on or before Bid Day. Not sure how to fix the system though...

It's Panhellenic's job to council her on that. Since we don't know the campus, we don't exactly know whether or not it'll have an adverse affect. Also, if she wants to document and hold on to it, she better start time stamping things. I've seen too many instances when a chapter gets away with "she's just bitter she didn't get a bid."

This happens at most schools. If I remember correctly, my chapter filed a recruitment infraction on another for offering the Rho Gammas a snack when they came to pick up PNMs at the house. Or something equally as stupid/inconsequential. They should be there to protect the PNMs but unfortunately chapters use them as a weapon against each other.

As long as the PNM understands that one or two women from a group cannot guarantee them a bid, they should not be "burned" at any time during recruitment. My advice is to proceed as if nothing has happened. If she feels the need after recruitment to have a chat with the Greek Adviser, that would be an excellent idea.

Absolutely, but the reality is we're dealing with 18 year old minds who don't fully understand the backside of the process. You can tell them until they're blue in the face that they shouldn't listen to that, but if "ZOMG XYZ tip-top group" are all telling her they can't wait to see her tomorrow and she better SIP them...she's going to be inclined to believe it. And THEN if she does later turn them in, she's feeling like she labeled herself "big nanny tattletale" which she's been told since preschool she should never be that girl. And yes, this happened last year (for sure) and several times while I was in college.

It's a double-edged sword for sure and not black and white by any means.

Yeah? What if the pics of her making the XYZ hand sign are seen by other groups?

That has far more potential to screw the group than it does the PNM. If the dirty rusher is dumb enough to post them, her group will be punished and she'll most likely face suspension or termination (if not for actually doing it, for being egregiously stupid).

If the PNM is the one who posts the pictures, well, then she's just stupid too.

And to the OP...no, it is NOT unfair to add that into your opinion of the chapter, any more than if you saw one of their sisters shoplifting or doing something else you know is wrong. I'd put these girls at the bottom of my list every night, personally.

Wait. So you saw photos of this girl doing the group's hand sign? How do you know the sorority member was involved? Was she in the photos? Are you sure this isn't some sort of fantasy on her part? LOOK AT ME!!!! XYZ WANTS ME SOOOOO BAD!!!!!!!!! The point is, you weren't really there and didn't see it with your own eyes so you really don't know.

Our point was that if she speaks to Panhellenic prior to recruitment, there is the risk that the source of the complaint (her) might be leaked and negatively effect her recruitment. Even if noone mentions that it was Patty PNM who made the complaint, if XYZ sorority has to go in and talk to the Greek life advisor for talking to a PNM during "silence/no contact period" it might be easy for XYZ to put two and two together and figure out it was Patty.

My point is that it's Panhellenic's job to council her on whether or not she needs to or should file a recruitment infraction. If it leaks, there are steps she can take.

She also may want to discuss it with her recruitment counselor rather than just any member of Panhellenic - I was not allowed to discuss anything about PNMs with my chapter or any other. Any breach of that meant serious trouble and everyone knew it. If she doesn't file the infraction, though, the chapter doesn't need to have a discussion with the Greek Advisor. Someone on the campus would know whether it was likely that someone would figure it out. Not randos on the internet.

I don't see how any of this is your business.

I hate to say this, but stay in your lane on this one. This stuff is so touchy in sorority recruitment. Would you also say it is none of my business if I were an active member of another chapter on this campus?

Hazarding a guess, if the sorority member is a sophomore and just going through rush from the other side for the first time, she may not be fully aware that she screwed up. We know how tricky the rules are (I (underline, bold) would love for you to be my sister and I could be your big, etc) is not technically an infraction, as I understand it. We (underline bold) want you to be our sister and have already determined who your big would be... BIG ole infraction.

I probably wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but I wouldn't be counting any chickens either. I guess I'd err on the side of young girl makes a stupid mistake instead of vicious girl intentionally commits heinous rush infraction. Now if the member is anything beyond a first year rusher, all of the above is moot.

I have to say, as a chapter adviser and area officer who works with many chapters during recruitment...if a PNM has pictures on her facebook account showing her flashing the sign of a certain group or partying with members of another group...this will negatively affect this PNM on many campuses. I hope this PHM in question had the good sense to not post every single moment of her life on facebook.....

Do any NPCs have hand signs?

Many collegians have come up with them. The national or international groups I am more familiar with have strongly discouraged their use.

Short list...

Delta for DDD
KD with adding an extra finger from aformentioned delta
Zeta crown
XO with pointer fingers and thumb
AXO with same and making point of A at top

I'm sure there's more...check the bid day pics thread

I've heard that too, but nobody's ever explained why...

Ok didn't mean to put that frowny face in there and can't get it off. Dang technology...

I have my doubts about the OP's veracity. I've known some really clueless PNMs but nobody who's clueless enough to flash a handsign with a sorority's members. I mean, if she's that dumb, who would want her?

Already have a few here locally with the chapter I work with on a daily basis. I don't think these PNMs realize the negative impact this will have on their recruitment...probably are trying to be funny and cool...in their own minds.

I think NPC women and hand signs are silly. It just looks like they're trying too hard.

I also could envision a scenario in which a naive PNM might make up a story about how XYZ wants her so bad that they showed her the hand sign. I also can see a sophomore being uneducated enough about recruitment that she would cross the line.

Hey y'all thanks for all the responses and advice. A few things
-Just to clarify this wasn't me, friend didn't really know how strict things around sororities can be so she didn't hesitate.
-Not on Facebook, thankfully. But I've seen them.

I don't think anything official is going to be done because I'm not sure the member was being malicious, just inexperienced. I also thought that the hand thing was like official, so thanks for clearing that up! Personally, I guess this will just be in my mind when visiting them and compare to the vibe :confused:

If you weren't trying to be snarky (benefit of the doubt) I only feel it is in the capacity of making sure my friend knew this didn't guarentee anything and how I should let it affect my view on a possibly dishonest group

Since you weren't there you don't know exactly what the member's words were. So I wouldn't judge a group by a person who may have been misquoted....or by the actions of one misguided member.

I'm not. I can't imagine any way your intervening in this could possibly end well for you.

I'm not talking about intervening- I'm pretty clearly talking about if I should or should not guide my own opinion off this

Judging an entire chapter by the stupid actions of one person? I probably wouldn't.

This. ^^

Furthermore, if you are at a big, competitive school, dirty rushing is most likely very common. All of the chapters are probably doing it. (I may get yelled at for saying that...but that is the truth)

If the chapter takes the time to take a girl out, take pictures, and risk getting in trouble...it means they like the girl A LOT. Just be happy you (or your friend) has a leg up in a very big competition.

Reporting them is a horrible idea. The chapter will probably find out. Believe me.

Unless things are very different from where/when I went to school, dirty rushing is covered quite well in the spring prior to fall recruitment. I'm not buying "she didn't know better" as an excuse. "She didn't think she'd get caught" or "she didn't think there'd be consequences" are fair.

As for judging the entire group by the actions of one member...isn't that pretty much how sorority rush works? You only meet a handful of women, so this is information about the chapter, as much as anything else.

Really? You haven't even attended any recruitment events and you're going to pre-judge an entire chapter by the antics of your friend and her friend?

As Forrest Gump's mama said: "sometimes we all do things that, well, just don't make no sense." Kind of a one-size fits all for every possible scenario here, IMO.

One final comment: we tell you a bajillion times to keep an open mind. Try it. You might like it. Those PNMs who keep an open mind usually have incredibly awesome recruitment outcomes!

What this active sorority member has done is potentially very, very hurtful to the OP's friend. If friend doesn't get a bid from XYZ, she is going to be crushed far beyond how she'd feel if she hadn't been promised a bid.

I don't think it's fair to say this is the behavior of one woman and write it off. It's not like she saw one woman getting rowdy in a bar or one woman slacking off in class. She is aware of one woman playing a very mean game with her friend. I don't see how that could NOT influence her opinion of XYZ.

I ranted on this in another thread (I think I hijacked SAI), but I immediately see "gang sign" when people throw up their hand signs in bid day pics. I am most definitely not the only one.

I also noticed one group's that looked like the ASL sign for "vagina" to me.

So yeah, I think I know why groups don't want their girls doing this in all of their pictures.

I thought the idea of keeping an open mind was to give everyone a fair chance, not that cheating was okay.

There seems to be disagreement on whether it's so common that it's institutionalized, or that it's probably a rogue girl so it's unimportant. All I know is that if I loved this chapter and ended up there that I would still have a problem with it.

Well, then you are going to spend your life being disappointed over and over as you will never find an organization where everyone plays by the rules - no matter where it is (even a church) or how well vetted they are. We're human. We make mistakes.

:eek:
Well now I'm curious! It's probably a bad idea to post it here, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to know to which sign you're referring.

ETA: Google is my friend. I know the sign you're talking about now.

I took ASL when I went there. My prof ranted about it on the first day and made sure we made it round... Also when I joined KD, the older students made sure we didn't make "dirty deltas" so that it didn't mean something inappropriate in ASL. A lot of women in my chapter took ASL, I blame it being across the street from the house.


To be more on the sorority topic: Some groups signs make sense and you can tell what they are making. ADPi's diamond sign makes sense when you know it is for ADPi. Other NPC sororities have come up with hand signs that look really awkward or are almost unintelligible until it is explained to you. There are some where the symbol is too complicated or it just looks awkward.

IMO: Handsigns can be cute. There are some pinned by HQ that I think are adorable. However, a picture of a chapter looking polished and smiling looks much more polished and professional vs a chapter where everyone is doing the symbol and it just looks busy. I never liked the pictures of my chapter or even a pledge class all doing the symbol because it was just too much all at once. The pictures where we just smiled looked tons better.