GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Entertainment (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=205)
-   -   Olympic Opening Ceremony (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=128527)

Mevara 07-28-2012 12:07 AM

Olympic Opening Ceremony
 
What did everyone think? Which one was better Beijing or London?

ASTalumna06 07-28-2012 01:59 AM

I think the story was hard to follow. Usually I'd be thinking, "Matt and Meredith need to shut up," but I was actually happy they were walking me through it step by step. And Matt saying. "I don't know if that's cute.. Or creepy," about that giant baby thing was hysterical. I was thinking the exact same thing. It was kind of weird.

And it wasn't as visually stunning as Beijing. There were a lot of talented dancers, but that's about it.

And what was up with the whole texting part of it?

And the workers taking apart the grass at the beginning just looked strange and unorganized.

Definitely not my favorite.

BlueOwl 07-28-2012 02:05 AM

Watching on the west coast so it is still dragging on (it is 11:05 pm PST)....UH, boring in my opinion. Creative, yes. But just not as visually thrilling to watch as Beijing. Was so looking forward to the show, but must say it has been a let-down. Going to bed.
Go USA!

Mevara 07-28-2012 02:11 AM

My sister-in-law, who is German, thought it was awesome. I on the other hand was very disappointed. I believe if it needed that much explanation it wasn't done very well.

I wonder if most of the ceremony was lost in translation.

AGDee 07-28-2012 02:58 AM

I thought the electronic things on the seats creating images was really cool. I loved Sir Paul's part. What a great way to bring everyone together.. with a song that was known around the world. Many reminders that a lot of great music comes from the UK. The fireworks at the end were astonishing.

ellebud 07-28-2012 03:08 AM

Frankly, mediocre at best. The National health service more importent than Britian's contribution to World World 2? Seriously?

Always AlphaGam 07-28-2012 04:29 AM

I think, for a country so steeped in tradition, they did a fine job staying true to their colors. I think it was great that they did something that celebrated their people instead of trying to put on a flashy show for the world.

It's their 3rd time hosting the Games in the Modern Era. Beijing needed to prove something. The British certainly did not.

It'll be interesting to see how it will be done in 2016. Methinks Rio won't be so...calm.

It was really neat to see Her Majesty with James Bond. That was cool.

Senusret I 07-28-2012 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always AlphaGam (Post 2162458)
I think, for a country so steeped in tradition, they did a fine job staying true to their colors. I think it was great that they did something that celebrated their people instead of trying to put on a flashy show for the world.

It's their 3rd time hosting the Games in the Modern Era. Beijing needed to prove something. The British certainly did not.

It'll be interesting to see how it will be done in 2016. Methinks Rio won't be so...calm.

It was really neat to see Her Majesty with James Bond. That was cool.


I agree with all of this.

I actually loved the opening ceremony, particularly the love story/decades dance.

I also liked the tearing away of the earth and the rising of the smokestacks.

The whole thing was just so BRITISH... I can't describe it any better. And I guess I'm a bit of an anglophile.

KDCat 07-28-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 2162462)
I agree with all of this.

I actually loved the opening ceremony, particularly the love story/decades dance.

I also liked the tearing away of the earth and the rising of the smokestacks.

The whole thing was just so BRITISH... I can't describe it any better. And I guess I'm a bit of an anglophile.

I loved it. I think it's the best opening ceremony that I've ever seen. I'm a huge Anglophile and the "just so BRITISH" was absolutely fabulous.

What I loved: the opening hymn: "Oh, Jerusalem" is a very traditional hymn in Britain. Every kid in Britain knows it, the way we know "America the Beautiful" or something similar.

I loved the kids' choruses showing all four countries in the UK.

I loved the industrial forging of the Olympic ring and the rings rising to the center of the stadium.

I loved that it included a ton of Brit Lit, including Shakespeare and J.K. Rowling and Peter Pan.

I loved that it included so much British pop music.

I loved that all of the flags were planted on a hill together. I also loved that the hill symbolized Glastonbury Tor, which is where King Arthur is supposed to buried and is the mythological heart of Britain.

I loved that the cauldron was made of petals, one petal for each team at the Olympics.

I loved the Queen for having a sense of humor and agreeing to the Bond sequence.

I loved the flame coming up the Thames on a boat.

I loved the rings and fireworks on London Bridge.

I loved the construction workers lining the tunnel as the flame came in. The ceremony did a very, very good job representing every aspect of British society from the Queen to the workes who built the stadium.

It wasn't the extravaganza that Beijing was, but it was perfect.

barbino 07-28-2012 11:19 AM

Great posts, Senruset I and KD Cat. Your two posts together sums up the London opening ceremony well. I liked it but found it hard to follow & overly long and boring in parts. I loved the part with James Bond & the Queen. Her corgis were so cute, and it was neat to see her in the palace.

The part with Beckham cruising through London in a speed boat was neat and I thought that having J.K. Rowling read a story was classic. I agree with Senruset I; it was so very British.

But the best part for me is always the Parade of Nations. I really enjoyed seeing all the athletes in their country's special Olympic outfit. :)

amIblue? 07-28-2012 11:37 AM

I really enjoyed it, but I am also an Angliophile. I liked Beijing, too. I don't think I can choose one over the other. They were just different.

KKGCaroline 07-28-2012 03:08 PM

DH & I stayed up (It finished 1am local time) to watch it.... We (especially I) loved it.

We loved how "Cool Britannia" it was, we loved the music, the dancing and the little bit of history, like Always AlphaGam mentioned, the British really didn't need to prove anything, Danny Boyle just went out, picked the best of British, and had a really good time with it!

British Best Friends were lucky enough to get tickets to the ceremony, and they said the atmosphere live was phenomenal. We are all travelling down to London next week to watch Mens Water Polo...

Since we moved here nearly 2 years ago, we both feel a little more British than American, so we are supporting both!

Go Team Britmerican!!!

Sciencewoman 07-28-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbino (Post 2162486)
Great posts, Senruset I and KD Cat. Your two posts together sums up the London opening ceremony well. I liked it but found it hard to follow & overly long and boring in parts. I loved the part with James Bond & the Queen. Her corgis were so cute, and it was neat to see her in the palace.

But the best part for me is always the Parade of Nations. I really enjoyed seeing all the athletes in their country's special Olympic outfit. :)

Agreed. I also liked the Mr. Bean on the piano/Chariots of Fire part. That was funny.

The whole boy-meets-girl texting thing would be the part I'd delete.

I missed the Beijing opening because we were on a cruise and is wasn't on the satellite TV. I was pretty bummed about that.

ASTalumna06 07-28-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara (Post 2162453)
I believe if it needed that much explanation it wasn't done very well.

I wonder if most of the ceremony was lost in translation.

This was my real issue with it. I felt like a lot of it had to be explained. And at some points, it seemed like Matt and Meredith had no clue what was going on..

"And here come some people in some very interesting outfits.."

I felt like the whole concept was good - the execution wasn't the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always AlphaGam (Post 2162458)
I think, for a country so steeped in tradition, they did a fine job staying true to their colors. I think it was great that they did something that celebrated their people instead of trying to put on a flashy show for the world.

It's their 3rd time hosting the Games in the Modern Era. Beijing needed to prove something. The British certainly did not.

They stayed true to their colors, yes. However, that's what the opening ceremony is supposed to be - a show for the world. Obviously you want to show off history and traditions, but it should be a spectacle enjoyed by all.

And I'm not so sure that because this was their third time hosting the games that they had nothing to prove. Besides, the last time they hosted was in 1948. How many people watching last night were even alive in 1948?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 2162485)
I was glad the Brit sense of humour was so prevalent in the ceremony. I actually expected way more performances, and was kind of disappointed there wasn't more name performers - they played a ton of music, but I would've been happier to see some live performances.

This!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman (Post 2162516)
The whole boy-meets-girl texting thing would be the part I'd delete.

Definitely.

ASTalumna06 07-28-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp (Post 2162525)
Right. And you have to figure, if it was confusing to college-educated Americans, with our strong historical and linguistic ties to the UK, what were less educated people and those in Africa, China, and South America thinking? They could have done a better job of telling a story that was comprehensible to everyone.

I fast-forwarded through the dancing hospitalized children (what?) and the love story/decades dance party (I was expecting them to have the actual Eurythmics there, not just play a song I have on my iPod!). And whose idea was it to have the top-hatted industrialists doing those weird arm dances? We burst out laughing at my house.

I was unimpressed by most of the themes and the narrative. However, I thought the tech aspects were spectacular. Sets, pyro, forging the rings, building the cauldron out of 200 individual petals, all that was amazing. The original turf set was a beautiful representation of the English countryside with its meadows, hedgerows, etc.

The best opening ceremony moment, that I believe will never be topped, was Barcelona lighting the cauldron with the flaming arrow. That was AWESOME.

Yes to all of this!

The hospitalized children part was strange, and the texting thing was completely random and not necessary, in my opinion. I was also laughing/wondering "what were they thinking" at times.

DeltaBetaBaby 07-28-2012 06:38 PM

I thought it was kinda boring, but I loved the dig at the US on healthcare!

PeppyGPhiB 07-29-2012 07:05 PM

I think people forget what most opening ceremonies are like. Beijing was the exception. Most OCs have been like this one - a history of the host country. Beijing was spectacular, but it also bothered me since there were plenty of stories about what hard-asses the country's leadership were regarding everything. being. perfect. I recall that during the dress rehearsal, someone didn't like the way some of the costumes looked, so they had all-new costumes made within something like 14 hours. You just knew that many of the people involved probably weren't having much fun, and those re-made costumes were basically made under slave labor circumstances. It was huge and stunningly beautiful, but too perfect for me because you got the sense that any errors - whether it was a prop that fell apart or an out-of-place drummer - would have been viewed very harshly by the government. I worried about anyone that made any missteps, and that tarnished it for me.

On the other hand, I loved Vancouver's ceremonies and this one because you could see that the participants were having fun, including the people who planned them. Vancouver's CC, with the Mounties who did the can-can and giant inflatables, was hilarious, and totally Canadian. I can't wait to see what this Closing Ceremony is like!

ASTalumna06 07-29-2012 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 2162695)
I think people forget what most opening ceremonies are like. Beijing was the exception. Most OCs have been like this one - a history of the host country.

I had no problem with the history aspect of it. I agree, that's exactly what it should be about. However, the way it was put together was strange, many things needed too much of an explanation, and things like the texting portion of it has nothing to do with the country's history.

PeppyGPhiB 07-30-2012 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2162699)
I had no problem with the history aspect of it. I agree, that's exactly what it should be about. However, the way it was put together was strange, many things needed too much of an explanation, and things like the texting portion of it has nothing to do with the country's history.

I agree the texting thing was weird. I liked the rural-industrial storyline, though, especially with everything transforming right before our eyes.

I remember thinking the Salt Lake City OC was reeeeeally hokey. Covered wagons and prairie dresses. "Waltzing Matilda." The 1980 men's hockey team that beat the USSR. The U.S. flag from the top of the World Trade Center being carried into the arena. Now, I don't find all of that hokey, but imagine what people in other countries were thinking. Now imagine what the U.S. reaction would have been if we heard that the BBC cut out the flag memorial bit from its broadcast - that is what NBC did at this OC in London.

Tulip86 07-30-2012 07:27 AM

I just love all the countries in their stylish uniforms. Loved the US,Italy, Netherlands (only they can pull off orange and cobalt in one outfit) Belgium was great as well. Spain looked like Fast Food employees.

MysticCat 07-30-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDCat (Post 2162482)
I loved it. I think it's the best opening ceremony that I've ever seen. I'm a huge Anglophile and the "just so BRITISH" was absolutely fabulous.

What I loved: the opening hymn: "Oh, Jerusalem" is a very traditional hymn in Britain. Every kid in Britain knows it, the way we know "America the Beautiful" or something similar.

I loved the kids' choruses showing all four countries in the UK.

I loved the industrial forging of the Olympic ring and the rings rising to the center of the stadium.

I loved that it included a ton of Brit Lit, including Shakespeare and J.K. Rowling and Peter Pan.

I loved that it included so much British pop music.

I loved that all of the flags were planted on a hill together. I also loved that the hill symbolized Glastonbury Tor, which is where King Arthur is supposed to buried and is the mythological heart of Britain.

I loved that the cauldron was made of petals, one petal for each team at the Olympics.

I loved the Queen for having a sense of humor and agreeing to the Bond sequence.

I loved the flame coming up the Thames on a boat.

I loved the rings and fireworks on London Bridge.

I loved the construction workers lining the tunnel as the flame came in. The ceremony did a very, very good job representing every aspect of British society from the Queen to the workes who built the stadium.

It wasn't the extravaganza that Beijing was, but it was perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I (Post 2162462)
I agree with all of this.

I actually loved the opening ceremony, particularly the love story/decades dance.

I also liked the tearing away of the earth and the rising of the smokestacks.

The whole thing was just so BRITISH... I can't describe it any better. And I guess I'm a bit of an anglophile.

Pretty much what y'all said.

The Queen and James Bond alone put the ceremony at the top of the awesome scale for me.

All other opening cermonies have had lots of explanation. I wonder if Americans thought we wouldn't need as much explanation of things British.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ellebud (Post 2162457)
Frankly, mediocre at best. The National health service more importent than Britian's contribution to World World 2? Seriously?

I can see downplaying World War II when you're playing host to all nations, including Germany, Italy and Japan.


I'll be honest -- the only thing I remember about the Beijing ceremony is drums.

ASTalumna06 07-30-2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 2162744)
I remember thinking the Salt Lake City OC was reeeeeally hokey. Covered wagons and prairie dresses. "Waltzing Matilda." The 1980 men's hockey team that beat the USSR. The U.S. flag from the top of the World Trade Center being carried into the arena. Now, I don't find all of that hokey, but imagine what people in other countries were thinking. Now imagine what the U.S. reaction would have been if we heard that the BBC cut out the flag memorial bit from its broadcast - that is what NBC did at this OC in London.

We're not discussing Salt Lake's opening ceremonies. I'm not even sure I remember them.

And I didn't even know any of it was cut out until now. But I'm not sure what this has to do with liking the ceremony anyway.

Again, I agree that they should show their history.. I just didn't care for the way they did it. Too many things needed to be interpreted, and giant babies and texting teenagers aren't what I think of when I think of London.

agzg 07-30-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2162699)
I had no problem with the history aspect of it. I agree, that's exactly what it should be about. However, the way it was put together was strange, many things needed too much of an explanation, and things like the texting portion of it has nothing to do with the country's history.

I disagree on the texting. The riots last summer were organized almost completely over BBM. The UK, especially London, is extremely "digital," if that makes sense. I thought it was a fun nod to how things are now.

AXOmom 07-30-2012 11:28 AM

Like MysticCat I have to say that I don't remember much of the opening ceremonies for most Olympics and about the only thing I remember from Beijing is the drums. Must be something about drums. I remembered the arrow lighting the torch in Barcelona only after someone on here mentioned it - that was a cool moment.

As for this one - pretty much what's been said. I liked some parts (LOVED Rowan Atkinson, always like Kenneth Brannagh reading Shakespeare and liked the music, particlarly the kids' choirs), but a lot of it - didn't really get. It wasn't quite as confusing as the French opening many, many years back, but I expected weird semi-existentionalist stuff from the French - I guess I expected the English to be a little more... hmm...straightforward about the whole thing. It seemed to me like there were too many ideas and somebody needed to edit it a bit, but I apparently won't remember it in two months anyway, so whatever.


I was reminded of two things while watching:

1) I consider myself pretty good at geography, but despite having seen many, many Olympic parade of nations there are still at least 15 countries I've never heard of that march through.

2) During the opening ceremonies is the one time every four years (because I don't watch the winter Olympics as much) that it sucks to live in a country that starts with a U.

ForeverRoses 07-30-2012 11:36 AM

I think Olympic Opening Ceremonies are supposed to be hokey. It's the rule. ;) I thought this one was fun- and definitely British.

I am old enough to remember when ABC had the Olympics, and in my mind, Jim McKay will forever be the best person at commenting on the Opening and Closing Ceremonies. And FWIW, my favorite opening ceremony was Calgary in 1988. Yup. I'm old.

Always AlphaGam 07-30-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses (Post 2162788)
And FWIW, my favorite opening ceremony was Calgary in 1988. Yup. I'm old.

Well, Barcelona 1992 was one of my favorites, so I'm right up there with you! ;)

ASTalumna06 07-30-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXOmom (Post 2162786)
1) I consider myself pretty good at geography, but despite having seen many, many Olympic parade of nations there are still at least 15 countries I've never heard of that march through.

This! I was talking to my mom last night, and she asked me if I had heard of all the countries named. There were definitely some where I thought, "That's a country? Where the hell is it?"

MysticCat 07-30-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses (Post 2162788)
I am old enough to remember when ABC had the Olympics, and in my mind, Jim McKay will forever be the best person at commenting on the Opening and Closing Ceremonies.

Yes!

My two favorite torch lightings: Barcelona (1992 summer) and Lillehammer (1994 winter).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86 (Post 2162756)
I just love all the countries in their stylish uniforms. Loved the US,Italy, Netherlands (only they can pull off orange and cobalt in one outfit) Belgium was great as well. Spain looked like Fast Food employees.

And the UK uniforms looked like something out of a really bad sci-fi movie. What were they thinking?


ETA: I know I keep editing and adding stuff . . . sorry . . . but I just read that NBC omitted an entire performance from the Opening Ceremonies. Just before the Parade of Nations there was a tribute to terrorism victims, particularly those of 7/7. NBC didn't air any of it, but it can be seen here.

ForeverRoses 07-30-2012 02:34 PM

Speaking of the uniforms, the Czech Republic outfits made me laugh. not sure how comfy the Wellies were after standing around for 6 hours though...

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/201...ION0727-5.html

PeppyGPhiB 07-30-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2162802)
ETA: I know I keep editing and adding stuff . . . sorry . . . but I just read that NBC omitted an entire performance from the Opening Ceremonies. Just before the Parade of Nations there was a tribute to terrorism victims, particularly those of 7/7. NBC didn't air any of it, but it can be seen here.

NBC's response to the controversy surrounding their edit was equally as insulting. "Our broadcast is tailored for an American audience." That's why I noted up thread that if we had heard the BBC did that to our 9/11 memorial in the OC for the Salt Lake games, we would have been outraged...and yet NBC thought it was OK to edit in a lame Michael Phelps-Ryan Seacrest interview.

I was also shocked at some of the commentary - from Bob Costas especially - during the OC. He said some really disrespectful things about certain countries during the parade of nations.

NBC has gotten nothing but bad PR over Twitter since Friday. This is going to be a long two weeks for them. It seems they put their whole Olympics strategy together YEARS ago and haven't made any changes to account for social media and all things digital. I really wish ABC or CBS will outbid them at the next opportunity. I'm tried of NBC and their insulting coverage.

ASTalumna06 07-30-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 2162811)
NBC's response to the controversy surrounding their edit was equally as insulting. "Our broadcast is tailored for an American audience." That's why I noted up thread that if we had heard the BBC did that to our 9/11 memorial in the OC for the Salt Lake games, we would have been outraged...and yet NBC thought it was OK to edit in a lame Michael Phelps-Ryan Seacrest interview.rtunity.

I'm not so sure I'd be mad if the BBC decided not to air a 9/11 tribute.. But I AM upset that NBC decided not to show the American people the entire ceremony. You would think that the US would truly appreciate such a tribute, maybe more so than some other countries.

PeppyGPhiB 07-30-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2162812)
I'm not so sure I'd be mad if the BBC decided not to air a 9/11 tribute.. But I AM upset that NBC decided not to show the American people the entire ceremony. You would think that the US would truly appreciate such a tribute, maybe more so than some other countries.

You think the USA wouldn't have gone ape$#!% crazy if the BBC had cut out the USA 9/11 flag being carried into the Salt Lake City games as a memorial tribute to the victims of terrorism? I'm not talking about a random tribute on TV, I'm talking about a part of the Opening Ceremonies that was purposely cut out for the national TV audience because the broadcaster decided that their country didn't need/want to see it.

ASTalumna06 07-30-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 2162815)
You think the USA wouldn't have gone ape$#!% crazy if the BBC had cut out the USA 9/11 flag being carried into the Salt Lake City games as a memorial tribute to the victims of terrorism? I'm not talking about a random tribute on TV, I'm talking about a part of the Opening Ceremonies that was purposely cut out for the national TV audience because the broadcaster decided that their country didn't need/want to see it.

I guess the country as a whole could be upset, but I wouldn't be (which is what I indicated in my other post). What do I care if the media in another country decided not to show the entire ceremony?

But again, that could just be me.

MysticCat 07-30-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 2162811)
That's why I noted up thread that if we had heard the BBC did that to our 9/11 memorial in the OC for the Salt Lake games, we would have been outraged...and yet NBC thought it was OK to edit in a lame Michael Phelps-Ryan Seacrest interview.

Somehow I missed that part of your post. Sorry. But I think you're exactly right.

And I agree that the commentary on NBC left much to be desired.

SWTXBelle 07-30-2012 04:40 PM

Every four years I mourn the loss of ABC's coverage of the Olympics.

YES I AM OLD. I HAVE MADE MY PEACE WITH IT.

Tulip86 07-30-2012 04:51 PM

I always watch the BBC feed, just so much better. Prefer watching the actual games on BBC as well, I like the commentary.

AGDee 07-30-2012 05:18 PM

Here in Detroit, we used to get Canadian coverage when it was on CBC and it was MUCH better coverage of everything. They showed us much more than just the US stuff. Lots more equestrian coverage, curling in the winter games, etc. But, a different Canadian network has the contract now and I'm really missing their coverage :(

pshsx1 07-30-2012 06:22 PM

I watched the OC online, so I saw the whole thing, with the tribute (which I thought was very somber and touching).

The OC just felt soooo looong. The transition from rural to industrial just seemed to drag on and on for me. It just seemed like a million people doing a million things as the stadium slowly transitioned periods.

Also, to me, the performances didn't flow into one another. I felt like I was watching a series on TV, but I missed every other episode. I was very unimpressed by the NHS portion and the lack of a tribute to the Royal Navy. I mean, that was a huge reason that the "sun never set on the British Empire."

Also, Her Majesty's face during the parade of nations screamed "I wish I still owned these countries" and "please let me go to bed."

AOIIalum 07-30-2012 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2162831)
Every four years I mourn the loss of ABC's coverage of the Olympics.

YES I AM OLD. I HAVE MADE MY PEACE WITH IT.

Thank you Belle. This perfectly sums up my feelings!

Cheerio 07-30-2012 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulip86 (Post 2162836)
I always watch the BBC feed, just so much better. Prefer watching the actual games on BBC as well, I like the commentary.

^^^^^
BIG ditto. :D


The BBC feed during special 9/11 memorial ceremonies in Great Britain, and 1997's Diana funeral, were also much better than U.S. network feeds. No chitter-chatter; concentration on subject at hand; music heard and enjoyed; etc.

BTW those multiple Mary Poppins' during Olympic Opening Ceremonies reminded me of GC'c Mary Poppins! :)

NBC's Costas is a constant MUTE push at our house.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:05 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.