Always a PNM, never a sister.
 

Hi everyone!

Since coming to college, I've wanted to join a sorority. I rushed my freshman and sophomore years, but did not receive any bids. There are six sororities on my campus and I am a legacy for one of them. (My sister went to a different school though)

Both times I wondered why I did not receive a bid. Was my hair too frizzy? Was my laugh a little too obnoxious? Did I seem too innocent or shy? How important is my weight? I was very confused to say the least.

Earlier this year, however, I received my answer. My freshman year I lived in a dorm with a young woman who was in a sorority, and before recruitment that year, she wrote a letter to someone higher up in the Greek system saying that I do not uphold the morals and values of sisterhood. She wrote this letter after only knowing me for a few (3) months, but her complaint has negatively affected my chances for receiving a bid. I get along great with all of her sisters and many of them spoke highly of me to their President and about offering me a bid. However, their President spoke to my former roommate and the young woman stood firm. This was very disappointing, especially because I don't have a problem with her. (Side note: Every sorority has good qualities and I am not closed off to any of them, nor do I feel any bias because of my legacy. I want to be a part of a sorority for the sisterhood. I couldn't care less about top/bottom house rankings.)

My question to the Greek community is this:

Should I go through recruitment again? In your opinion, would it be a waste of time or could things be different this time around? I'm asking because all (or most) of you have been a part of the selection process, you know what is and what isn't important. I respect the confidentiality of the selection process and in no way am I asking for insider secrets. I just want to know your thoughts about my chances based on the things you've encountered. I know it won't be 100% accurate because you don't know me, but should I pay the fee and devote another weekend to going Greek? Or should I save myself from another round of rejection and look for other ways to get involved on campus?

I go through recruitment again, here is a list of my pros and cons

Pros
- 3.77 GPA, Honors Program
- Letters of Rec from my legacy sister and Panhellenic President at my school
- I can pay my dues. I'm not a 1%er, but I'm pretty well off (Well, family is)
- I know more people in the Greek System
- I've been told I'm a very funny and likable person, and I would like very much to be involved in the Greek system

Cons
-The letter from my former roommate
-I'm going into my third year
-My weight (I'm lighter than last year, but it could still be a concern)

Other than this one chapter, what about you has changed that would give the others a reason to pledge you? Is this a campus that makes a habit of pledging juniors? Whether or not your weight will be a concern is beyond what any of us can say.

But the biggest thing is I think you need to sit down with yourself and really think about how you are perceived by others, not by just this one girl who was so mean. You have the credentials that would make you eligible; do the sorority women LIKE you or merely tolerate you? These are tough questions to ask yourself and tougher to get honest answers about. If you want to give it one last shot, go for it. And then it's time to let it go and find other activities to fill up the blank spaces in your life. Good luck with whatever you choose to do next.

I call troll or someone is feeding you a complete line of hooey. Or you're not telling the entire truth. There is so much wrong here.

There is no one 'higher up in the Greek system' who can receive a letter and ban you from getting a bid to all sororities.

First the letter was from someone on your hall. Then it's from a former roommate.

The Panhellenic president at your school can't write a letter of rec for someone at her school. Even if she could, it could only be for one sorority.

Both of you brought up very good points, so thank you!

I think I have a great personality. People always tell me that I should be a comedian and that I'm really smart/they want to study with me, etc. I go to parties and I can let loose (not too loose, I pride myself on keeping things classy). I'm always myself. That's the best and most frequent compliment I receive. A lot of my friends tell me that they wish they were as comfortable with themselves as I am with myself. I could go on and list a bunch of traits that I think make me a desirable candidate, but I think I'm a little bias! I acknowledge I have flaws though. Everyone does.

DubaiSis: To answer your questions..

Things that have changed: I've met more members who do seem to like hanging out with me. We have fun and make plans regularly. My GPA went from a 3.2 to a 3.7, I did not have any letters of rec before, my campus had pledged seniors (so i guess there's some hope!) And these past couple of years being in college I've changed as a person. I started working on myself (excercising, for example) I set goals and I achieve them (4.0 semester GPA), and I've been improving myself so I can be the me I want to be. I don't "need" the Greek system, but I like everything that it stands for and I think that I can contribute just as many positive things to the Greek Community as it can contribute to me. I want to get involved in philanthropic causes, earn leadership positions, and empower women to take control of their lives/love themselves. We all have that one friend who can't function with out the love of a guy. Well I can, and I want female friends who can do the same. Sisters before misters, always. (No pun intended!) My sister made some amazing friends in her sorority and I'm hoping to do the same.

KSUViolet06:
I found out that she wrote the letter through mutual friends because she was talking about. It was later confirmed by my friend in her sorority who was present during a conversation my former roommate had with her sorority's president. She did not want to withdraw her complaint. I think I answered your other questions above :) And thank you for that last bit, I didn't really think of that but you make a very go

What happened during your first two tries? Were you dropped from every house on day one? Or did you go all the way through pref at the maximum number of chapters and then end up without a bid? Or something in between?

I'm trying to make sense out of your story, because I don't understand how this letter would have affected your chance at more than one chapter.

I can absolutely see how the letter affected the sophomore recruitment. As they say, everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who knows the President. If one person told one other person, be assured that at least one person in every sorority knew about that letter within a day or two.

GreekorGeek,

Sorry, I don't think i was very clear. I can assure you I'm not a troll.

My former roommate lived in my dorm. We didn't live in traditional dorms. We lived in fully furnished on campus apartments. We just call them dorms. So she was my roommate, or "suite" mate as some people call it. We lived in a 3 bedroom, 2 bath apartment on campus.

The Panhellenic President at my school offered to write me a letter of rec for recruitment, I don't know the specific rules so perhaps it is for one sorority. I'm just going from what I was told. When she asked me if I would be interested in rushing again, she offered. When she found out about the same thing I did with my former roommate (she did digging because she heard I received a bid from the sorority but turned it down) she could not officially confirm or deny if we knew the same thing, but it's very likely that the XYZ member was telling the truth about writing the letter. I do not know who XYZ wrote the letter to, but was told that it was above her head when my friend who is the pres tried to get me a bid and said it was "politics" and that I didn't do anything wrong, it was just someone being stubborn and holding a grudge.

I don't think I'm banned from all the sororities, but it is like a scarlet letter on my application.

Member from XYZ wrote a letter to someone in the Greek system two years ago. Other girls in XYZ told the XYZ president I should join. XYZ President talked to my former roommate/suitemate. Roomie told XYZ Pres that she will not withdraw her letter and that if I am offered a bid, she will drop. XYZ Sorority sister of XYZ roomie was present during this conversation.

Sorry for any confusion, hope this cleared things up. I have nothing to hide or lie about, I was just royally screwed over. Or at least that's how it feels :/

KSUViolet: No, I don't believe so.

DeltaBetaBaby: My first year I was called back to two houses on day two, and my second year I was called back to three. I never made it past day two (house tours). I have been called back to 4 of the 6 sororities. First year, XYZ, YY. Second year, XYZ, ABC, DEF. Hope that makes sense? Never went to pref.

and

and herein would lie our confusion and doubt.

Exactly. One would have to completely buy into the concept that:

A. An active in a sorority would have to write a letter to her chapter to no rec a PNM.

B. Said letter is shared with all sororities and has such a horrible impact that it would shake the entire Panhellenic system at her school to its core, making her the recruitment pariah. The effect of that letter is felt over multiple recruitments.

C. Multiple sorority members, including the Panhellenic president, are willing to share membership selection information with the pariah.

D. Panhellenic president can write a recommendation to her (or all) chapters. Even though she's an active member.

It just doesn't add up. Either sorority members are making up excuses because the pariah won't leave them alone or the pariah has done something so heinous that everyone at a small school knows about it and the pariah is leaving out key facts or living in denial.

:confused: I can't wrap my head around the OP's situation. Or, as I often say, I can't connect the dots. It's too convoluted.

I'm with Greek_or_Geek.

This.

She hasn't given us enough information to connect the dots. I don't think anyone could figure this out without more to go on.

SoccerSweetie22, just be honest here. What was in that letter?

I completely agree. Nothing adds up. There were always girls that we wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole that we would be happy to see infect our competitor (yeah, panhellism only goes so far.) so I just doubt that this one letter would stop EVERY group from giving her a chance. Something else is going on.

ETA: from the description of your results the first two years, what ever the reason, this isn't going to happen for you. I'm sorry, I really am, but you haven't even made it to the pref round. As a junior, your odds are not improving...and you are known. Continue your involvement in other campus orgs, make friends and enjoy life. A sorority is not the only way to have a meaningful college experience.

Okay, but there is a big difference between "Suzie PNM did this horrible thing" and "Patty Active from XYZ hates Suzie PNM". If the OP actually did something horrible and it got around, she is not giving us all of the facts. If she didn't, then I have a really hard time believing every chapter would drop her over a personal conflict.

Also, the very chapter that hated her so much is the one that invited her back twice?

Wasn't that her legacy chapter? Might just be courtesy.

If you have a reputation for certain behaviors, and that reputation is wide-spread, a bid is probably not in your future.

Not saying this is the case, but sometimes the reason can be as simple, harsh and judgmental, as appearance. Especially if its a small clique-y campus? And perhaps I am totally reading between the lines the wrong way, but the OP seemed to think it necessary for whatever reason to make comments about her own appearance.

C'est la vie.

This. Frankly, if you upset a sister to the point that she wrote a letter to the chapter, then A) you probably did something nasty, catty, were a sloppy/lazy roommate, or some variant thereof; or B) the girl who wrote the letter is a terrible person, in which case you probably don't want to be in that chapter. If you can tell us what happened between you and that sister, we may be able to give you a better idea as to whether you might be able to resolve this or if you've shot yourself in the foot. Have you considered talking to the girl who wrote the letter yourself? Sometimes extending the olive branch can go a long way.

I'm still not fully convinced this is a real story, but on the outside chance that it is:

Is there a chance that whatever the roommate thought about you was also known well beyond that roommate? In other words, if it was in regards to poor choices/behavior on your part, and those poor choices and behavior happened in a public venue, then there was really no need for a letter. Plenty of people would have seen it for themselves and they would have been able to share with their own chapters.

I doubt it. In my experience, even the plainest PNM can usually find a place if she has good grades, good extracurriculars, and a decent personality. Not all sorority women are beauty queens.

The "not upholding the values and morals of sisterhood" sounds more serious.

A college student using the term 1%er?

Come on y'all. This screams troll/field trip like whoa.

The only thing I can think of that makes the OP's story about the "letter" conceivable:

If a member of sorority A wrote a letter to her friends who are members of sororities B and C revealing something completely, insanely awful about a PNM, that might result in a cut for sororities B and C as well as A. It would have to be a story that was not only awful, but so believable that it absolutely had to be true, at least from the points of view of the chapters involved.

The more I read all of this, the more confused I get. And the more I wonder how the OP knows so much about this letter.

Who did the letter go to? Obviously the Panhellenic President is her new bff, so it couldn't have been her :rolleyes: And I highly doubt that if it went to the Greek Life Advisor that he/she would have ruined the OP's chances at receiving a bid.

This is all a little unbelievable, in my opinion.

I am not saying all sorority women are beauty queens, or that this applies to the OP. But nowadays at some schools were PNMs are so similar in grades, extracurriculars and personality (i.e. driven to excel, outgoing, social media savvy, etc) that it isn't much of a stretch of the imagination that the deciding factor could well be appearance.

Maybe its just my experience in a region where appearance/personal grooming is very much ingrained in the lifestyle habits of the general population.

I have no reason to troll or lie. It honestly just feels like you guys are trying to "catch" me trolling so you can tell me how pathetic and/or stupid I am. I'm not trolling, okay? And I've decided that I won't be going through recruitment again, but I want to clear a few things up because although I have a lot of respect for the Greek System (I really wanted to be a part of it!) this actually happened to me, and in some ways, the system may be flawed. This is what I have went through for two years. It doesn't sound right because it isn't. But that doesn't mean that I came on here to mess with you guys. Check my profile out. I made my profile for this specific question because I wanted an honest answer, and I believe that many of you gave me one. So thank you.

I'm going to stop being so anonymous so that hopefully this makes more sense.

DISCLAIMER: I do not have a problem with any of these sororities. I have the utmost respect for these organizations and in no way am I trying to insult any of them. I'm simply clarifying!


First Year: Lived with a roommate. She is in Delta Zeta. I went through recruitment. On day 2, I was called back to DZ and Sigma Kappa. I did not list my legacy, I did not make it to preference.

Second Year: Day 2 I was called back to Delta Zeta, Zeta Tau Alpha, and Alpha Delta Pi (My legacy) I listed my legacy. Again, did not make it to preference.

Let a year go by. Just a few months ago I became friends with the Panhellenic President at my school. She asked me what I thought about going through recruitment again. She said she heard from a Rho Chi that I was offered a bid from Delta Zeta and turned it down my second year. I was shocked because I was not offered a bid and I would have loved to have been a DZ. This news also shocked her so she did some digging. So did I. I wanted to know what had happened. Did I really get a bid? That is when I found out about the letter that my former roommate wrote to somebody in the Greek System. i do not know to who, i never saw the letter, but it was written and submitted. This was confirmed. This information is technically confidential. I was only able to receive confirmation because I had heard about it from someone else elsewhere.

The PanPres talked to the Pres of DZ. The DZPres talked to my former roommate asking if she felt any differently and if they could extend me a bid (other DZ sisters were also telling the DZPres I should join) My former roommate said no, her feelings about me remained the same. I was told this by a DZ sister and mutual friend of mine who observed the conversation and it was later confirmed by members of the panhellenic council. Both Presidents looked into overriding it, but were apparently told it was "above their heads" and it was just "politics" and they are very very sorry.

I had no knowledge that this letter was written, but it was apparently written before my first recruitment. I had known this woman for less than three months at the time she wrote the letter. I was told (and it was later confirmed) that she believed I did not uphold the values and morals of sisterhood and threatened to drop if I were offered a bid. This is especially painful because we hardly knew each other well enough for her to make those judgements, and she was so nice to me the entire year. Never in a million years did I think she would do that. Especially because she was always telling me and everyone we met how "awesome" I was. I feel very betrayed, but there is nothing I can do except to move on. I did NOT read the letter, I have never seen it. I only know what I have been told by mutual friends and Greek "employees" at my school (not sure what to call it. Council members perhaps) who have CONFIRMED what I'm saying. These are not rumors, they are facts.

I really wanted to pledge Delta Zeta. I loved the other chapters, but I fit in more with Delta Zeta. Please don't think I'm dissing the other chapters or blaming them for not getting a bid. It's true what they say, "you just know." I only really felt that with DZ. They were all great and it was an amazing weekend, but i just felt more connected to that chapter. And it's become clear to me that I will not receive a bid from Delta Zeta, and yes that's disappointing, but I will still remain friends with the members outside of the Greek system. At first I wanted to go through recruitment and I wanted to get in so badly that I was willing to join any one that would take me. But that's not fair to myself, nor the sisters of the sorority.

I appreciate all of the things you guys have told me, so thank you.

This seems crazy because it is. But that doesn't mean that I'm making it up. This is what I have gone through. THESE THINGS HAPPEN! It happened to me. There isn't more to the story. This is it. And it sucks, but that's how it played out. The only thing that I ask is that you stop trying to play detective and find "holes" in my story. If this made sense and if it wasn't confusing, I would not be on a Greek site asking for opinions. I have no reason to lie or hold back information. You can choose to believe what you want.

But I believe that everything happens for a reason. I don't understand right now, but hopefully I will in the future. In the meantime, I'll get involved in other things on campus. Life is full of disappointments and I'm going to move on and handle rejection maturely. It isn't the end of the world.

Again, thank you for your replies! Many of you had very honest and helpful feedback and I appreciate it! :)

...

I probably have no right to give you advice as I am in a sorority and don't know the pain of being rejected twice but you have made the right decision not to try again. I really think you should move on and leave sorority life behind, no matter how hard this may be. Make non-greek friends and get involved in non-greek activities and remember that if your college is like most others the majority of students are not greek and have a great college experience. Just put the past behind you and move on with your life.

I believe your story. I'm sorry that the whole thing happened, and it sounds like you had a really hateful roommate. Some people use membership privilege as a weapon, and it sounds like that is what your roommate did. If it were me, I would want to know what the roommie found so appalling in my behavior, so I probably would ask her directly just to get it cleared up in my mind. But, I agree. You should not go through recruitment again.

Now that (IMO)mostly all of the dots are presented, my thought is this: for an active to (a) write a negative letter against a PNM's membership and (b) stand firm two years later, something unconscionably egregious must have transpired in the active's relationship with the OP.

None of us will discuss membership selection here. That said, I believe that this is a membership selection matter, and that ends it for me.

OP: it does appear clearly that your sorority ship has sailed. I wish you all the best in the future.

I've never heard of ONE letter from ONE woman in ONE sorority scuttling a person's sorority chances for the whole campus, unless it has a police report or videotape attached to it.

I mean, if we met a girl coming through rush and heard through the grapevine "Debby DZ is going to drop out of DZ if this girl gets a bid" our response would be "Who effing cares?" For that matter, depending on how well liked or not Debby was, some groups would pledge the rushee just to get Debby's goat.

There are five other sororities, including a legacy which you apparently tossed to the side. You unwisely set your sights on one and refused to keep an open mind. THIS is why you didn't receive a bid. THIS is why you aren't Greek. I'm sorry your roommate was such a bitch, but there's also the possibility that this was the only way to make you see that even though YOU thought DZ was right for you, it really WASN'T.

This is what I don't understand. If she went to all this effort to find out what happened, who wrote the letter, who all read it, getting it "verified," why did she never go ask/talk with/confront the writer? I'd have called the woman up and said "we need to talk." And I would find out what action of mine failed to live up to the standards of Greek Life. And since she didn't do that, it makes me think she knew what it was and it was valid.

I doubt that the letter is why she's not in a group. It may be a convenient way to cover something else that the Panhel President found out and did not want to discuss with her. What group would give private MS information (ie. the letter) to the Panhel Pres just because she was snooping around for information to why they did not give a PNM a bid. I agree with 33girl that the letter would still not effect her chances with the other groups. That's not how it works. OP, they should have never told you any of this because it is more hateful than not knowing at all. when people make up lies to try to spare others feelings, it often makes things worse. The answer should have been, "I'm sorry things didn't work out for you, but I cannot discuss the specifics." honestly, she can't because even as Panhell President, she doesn't know the specifics of why you were released from any group other than HERS. #1- I can guarantee that except for DZ it isn't true. #2- unfortunately- relationship dynamics play a part in membership selection at some chapters. When you room with an upper classman and things don't go so well (even if you think they do) it can spell disaster for your recruitment. #3- move on. Enjoy the rest of your college experience.

To the OP: Were you aware of any issues with the suitemate before you were told about the letter?

By whom? Who told you that there was a letter written that went to some unidentified Overlord of all things Greek?

Again, who confirmed what?

The Panhellenic President has no say in membership decisions (unless of course, she is also a DZ, which I'm not clear on from your earlier post). It is indeed possible that one person can prevent you from getting a bid to her chapter. What is so confusing to the rest of us is why that would have affected your chances at other chapters.

If you don't know who they are, neither do we. Panhellenic officers? Someone in the Greek Life office?

My guess is that whatever was in that letter was really bad. OP hasn't said what's in the letter, and I can't help but think she hasn't shared that information because it's true and she's terribly embarrassed by it. Once the contents of the letter were shared between other sororities, they agreed that the OP isn't up to snuff. I agree with whoever here said that the letter was probably accompanied by video, or police record, or something that supports the claims made against the OP.

I'm oblivious to the inner workings of Student Life, so this may be a stupid question. But let's say the person who received the letter was the Dean of Students, and the offense the OP committed was something that violated the school's code of conduct. Could the Dean prohibit her from being eligible to participate in recruitment? (Which doesn't seem to be the case at all, since she did participate in recruitment, but it's one of the only ways I can imagine a "higher up" official having input into membership selection across several chapters.)

^^^^Yes, but to believe and act on the word of ONE collegiate sorority member? Unless the member in question is the most trusted human on earth since Walter Cronkite, or unless her family bankrolls the entire University, I just can't see it happening.

If it was a Code of Conduct violation, she would have been released from rush by Panhellenic or more likely the Student Affairs director directly, and they would have HAD to notify her why she was being released (due process) She certainly wouldn't have been permitted to go through a second time if it was something that egregious.

Sorry, I have heard (and know) two women who went out of their way to make sure someone didn't get a bid. They were quite proud of their accomplishment(s).

No, the venom was not to one girl. Nor were the two women friends (they didn't know each other). Nor was it for the same house and/or the same year. When there is a chance for ugly behavior it will happen.

So, what did they do? Did they do this all on their own or enlist members of their sororities? Did they create fake documentation? Was this at a small or large Greek system? Were all the chapters constantly up in each others' business? How big were the chapters? Was the Greek life office involved? Was anyone reprimanded by the school?

Sorry but "oh yeah this is true because I heard it happen" falls flat if you don't have the particulars to back it up.