Other gender Advisors/Honorary?
 

For those fraternities/sororities which only allow undergraduate members to be of one gender (which is most of those discussed here on greekchat), does your organization allow either Advisors or Honorary membership of the other gender. More particularly, is there any situation in which someone of age 50 (for example) of the other gender would be able to either go through the initiation ceremony or attend it.

Note, my reason for asking is trying to get context for the efforts of some Alpha Phi Omega (which did not allow women full membership until 1976) chapters to grant Honorary membership to women staff members in the 1960s and one chapter being allowed to have a female advisor in 1969.

For Delta Chi: advisory positions are open to non-members, regardless of gender. The only position a non-member cannot hold is "BB" which is the primary chapter advisor. (He typically attends all or most chapter meetings and submits reports to HQ every semester) The majority of the Alumni Board of Trustees (which the "BB" is part of) must be made of Delta Chi Alumni, but I can think of a few chapters that have women, and non-Delta Chi men on their ABTs.

Delta Chi does not have honorary membership. For you 50 year-old woman example the answer is no. Alumnus Initiation, as the name suggests, is only for men and Initiation is a private ceremony. Not directly related to your questions but our Associate Member Ceremony is open, and female and non-Delta Chi advisors can and do attend.

CAVEAT: I don't know what the policy was in the 1960s-70s-80s-90s. Not sure how current information is applicable to what appears to be historical research on your part.

Kappa Alpha Theta: will permit non-Theta advisors, including those of the male gender, in CERTAIN advisory board positions (e.g. no positions that deal with discipline, or are related in any way to ritual, obviously). That narrows the field as to what positions can be filled by non-Thetas.

I would not be averse to having a male advisor or a non-Theta advisor, if it was a good match for the chapter and the potential advisor. That's the key, IMO - there has to be a good match.

We do not have "honorary membership"; nonmembers are not permitted to attend Initiation. There is no age restriction in the language at this time regarding membership; the definition is clear with respect to who is eligible for membership, and there is nothing about age that I can find anywhere. If I am incorrect, one of my Theta sisters will chime in and I will edit this post!

I believe that having "honorary" members or allowing anyone of another gender to participate in initiation in any way would jeopardize the single sex status of any NPHC, NPC or NIC organization. However, for other organizations, this might not be the case.

And Beta Theta Pi also allows female advisers and even gives awards for them. I would not be opposed to a male adviser in some capacity for my GLO though I'm not aware of any currently.

Sigma Alpha Iota has a title IX exemption as do the NPHC, NPC, and NIC organizations. However, we allow men who have achieved recognition for their contribution to the arts to be initiated as honorary members. They go through a very different, truncated ceremony--but they still learn our secrets. At the collegiate level, though, we are single-sexed. Men are never allowed to pledge and go through the collegiate initiation ceremony. Our having men as honoraries has never jeopardized our status as a Title IX exempt organization.

Sigma Alpha Iota prefers chapters to have advisors that are initiated members. While I was a collegiate, our entire advisory board were initiated members, but I know there are chapters with non-member advisors. Every chapter has to have at least one faculty advisor and the NEB recognizes that there may not be an initiated sister to serve in this role. But, of the 4 advisors required for each advisory board, the NEB would like each board to have at least one initiated member (to assist with ritual, membership, etc).

SAI's exemption for men is at the professional and alumnae level, not undergraduate. To my knowledge, no NPC groups have such a level. Also, I'm not aware of any NPC groups petitioning for such an exemption for men - though if they did institute different levels of membership which correspond to SAI's, I 'm sure they would look at that. However, with NPC's UA's that no men can participate in NPC recruitment (new UA this past year) and no women can participate in NIC recruitment, I doubt that they are looking at such a change.

No.

AOII does allow men as advisers in certain positions, but they would not be privy to discussions of ritual or allowed to attend ritual meetings. I actually served on the AAC at Theta Beta at Towson with an SAE who served as our Faculty Adviser and PR adviser. It worked out very well for the chapter. He was a very respected faculty member and was very enthusiastic about working with our chapter. BTW, PR was his field.

One of our chapters had a male advisor for many years. I think he was a Beta Theta Pi alumnus.

We can recognize males for contributions to the sorority (as a sweetheart, or as an advisor) and have ways of doing so, but they cannot receive honorary membership. And no, no boys at initiation (regardless of age of boy).

As for your original question...it was the 60s.

Do academic advisors count?

I know that the West Georgia Chi Omegas have had the same male academic advisor for years.

The AGD chapter had a male academic advisor for a very short time but unfortunately he died (can't remember how).

Alpha Phi Alpha has two kinds of advisors:

Alpha Advisors must be Alphas (and I believe must be members of the "sponsoring" alumni chapter in the area)

Campus Advisors may be Alphas but don't have to be; this position is concomitant with whatever position the campus requires. Campus Advisors have been women. In the past few years, we had a write-up in the Sphinx about a well-liked Campus Advisor who was a white woman.

Alpha Sigma Tau may have non-member/male advisors, including the chapter advisor. One of the more well-known male advisors among ASTs is David Stollman (of CAMPUSSPEAK, and member of Sigma Phi Epsilon), who is the advisor for our chapter at NYU.

As far as I know, this isn't a common occurrence, but it is possible.

They may not, however, participate in any kind of ritual.

Because of this thread, I am now putting "Become an advisor to an NPC org" on my vision board/bucket list.

Interesting. The only AST chapter I am familiar with had a male chapter adviser. He was a alumnus of Sigma Pi.

Women can be on our advisory boards and house corporations but they cannot be members. They cannot be initiated.

:D

Putting you on the "potential volunteer recruitment list".

Alpha Xi Delta allows non-members and males to be advisors in positions that do not involve ritual and/or membership selection. Non-members are not allowed at initiation. Non-members are also allowed to be members of house corporation boards.

Lol...

I have never heard of non-member advisors in Gamma Phi, so I think you will have to check us off your list of potentials.... :(

Not wise if you want to preserve your single sex status, in my opinion.

What's not wise? Having members of the opposite sex serve as advisors? Or having them initiated/receive honorary membership? Or both?

There was just an article in the most recent Chi Omega magazine (The Eleusis) about a member who is an advisor to Beta Theta Pi at Case Western Reserve University. She works at the school, and wanted to be involved with the Greek community even though Chi O does not have a chapter.

One of our members advises a Beta Theta Pi chapter and received a regional award recently for those efforts. Wish we had a chapter here in town. Would love to do that.

An advising a chapter of the opposite gender would not impact a group's single sex status but being an initiated member would. Both NPC and NIC have agreements that restrict that in order to maintain their status.

Please elaborate, I'm not connecting the dots.

As long as none are initiated and serve in a purely advisory capacity, there's no problem. Sometimes it's great to bring in outsiders so you can get some perspective you otherwise wouldn't have. At one time, I employed a young lady from a sorority at my chapter's school as a receptionist. I was able to use information from her to squelch a number of issues before they became issues.

Having someone in an advisory capacity wouldn't be any different. They are going to be privy to things your insiders are not. If I have my druthers, my house corporation BOD will have at least one NPC member on it because I will be the first to admit that they have Greek housing down to an absolute science compared to us.

As a former International Director of Housing for an NPC group, I have to agree with you here! I've talked with several folks at various NIC groups about how we do housing.

We had a man who served on our house corp board and he was first, like all of our Grandpa, and second the savior of the physical structure. The poor guy was about 400 years old and 4 feet tall (married to the cutest little lady, a sister, who looked about like his twin) and got called over to the house at all hours of the day or night to fix this or that thing that went wrong. If there had been ANY way to AI this man, we would have. He was a true double blue and gold Alpha Xi in all aspects except gender.

In the past few years, I've assembled, elected and written bylaws for a BOD with no house--just waiting and ready to act when things are right. Adding an NPC person with housing experience, probably someone who is also on a local NPC house corp is a priority of mine.

When talking with white hairs from another chapter about how we need to set things up, the advice has been to figure out what the sororities are doing and then copy them.

We have a pretty horrible system which requires each chapter to essentially reinvent the wheel. After having been established for over a decade on our campus, spending days in drafting contracts, organizational documents, bylaws and leases, I just had a sorority outbid us on a house we had overbid on to begin with just betting that they can fill the beds. I have every expectation that they will. They apparently have access to some major outside capital contributions from their HQ. We're on our own.

Organizationally, I think there are going to be fewer and fewer NIC groups in the future. Our NPC counterparts have really shown us how and where we need to evolve.

So back to the OP... you're foolish if you exclude what someone can offer simply because of their gender. We may be single-gender organizations, but that doesn't mean that the best ideas are always going to come from within.

Kevin: You can PM me any time. More than glad to share!

For Phi Mu Alpha, only men can be initiated as honorary members. Only brothers can be advisors. So, as a general rule, honorary initiations and advisor positions are limited to men.

I say "as a general rule" because, as I have mentioned on GC before, there was a period from the mid- to late-70s until the mid-80s when, while our Title XI status was being sorted out, a relatively small number of chapters (22) were given permission to initiate women. That option ended in 1985, but the 236 women validly initiated while the option was in place are considered true Sinfonians. I know of at least one who serves as advisor to a chapter.

I don't think the OP has any intention of doing so...the OP is quite open-minded, he simply wanted some context for things that happened in his (and my) formerly all-male, now coed, fraternity, back in the day. It is other posters in the thread that are being Debbie Downers about the concept.

What is foolish is people believing that what their GLO eats makes other GLOs defecate. GLOs do what works for them. If they only allow members to be advisors, they are advanced and equipped enough to get advice and access resources without every advice-giver and resource-provider being an actual advisor.

Delta chapters have primary advisors (Sorors) and, at the colleges/universities that require it, have faculty advisors (any faculty member who is not an asshole--if there are eligible faculty Sorors who are not assholes, that is even better). The faculty advisors for the Delta chapters (at the schools that require faculty advisors) are helpful for doing basic things like reserving rooms and setting their calendars. There are also faculty advisors who do absolutely nothing but have their name on the website or sign their name when rarely needed--that works for some chapters because these chapters prefer only using their off-campus primary/Soror Advisor.

The rest of the chapters that only have off-campus Soror primary advisors (no faculty advisor) do absolutely fine getting what needs to be done using the plethora of resources. These chapters (mine included) often do not want nonDeltas telling us what to do and how to do it, just point us in the right direction if we need/want your help with something. Afterall, that is what Student Activities and Greek Life offices are for at some campuses.**

**There are campuses where the Director of Greek Life is listed as the campus/staff advisor for every GLO--in addition to their off-campus advisor (member of the GLO). That is a necessary formality for these chapters to be recognized at the school but serves no purpose at some schools beyond quality control. This grates the nerves of some GLO chapters and their GLO member off-campus advisor.

In addition:

Everyone who is helpful to a chapter doesn't need to have the title Advisor or have a formal relationship with the organization.

I don't know if this was an ADPi chapter that I heard about or another sorority, but I remember someone telling me about a chapter that had advisors that weren't members of that sorority. I guess it was because the chapter was at a school that didn't have an alumnae association so getting advisors was incredibly difficult. I believe that the main chapter advisor was of the sorority, but the other ones weren't.

For me I personally don't see a problem with having advisors that aren't of the same sorority. Obviously I don't believe they should be allowed to any ritual events. I would do it. If another sorority approached me and asked me to be like their recruitment advisor because they couldn't get one, I would do it. Recruitment is recruitment. The sororities have to follow the same rules. I would understand not being allowed to do some things.

I am also one of those people, while I love ADPi, I understand that we need to support each other. As one of my recruitment shirts said "no matter what the letter, we're all greek together".

How on earth can people get advice and resources without the advice-giver and resource-provider being a formal advisor or having a formal relationship with the organization? :eek: :p Say it ain't so!

/sarcasm

Beta Kappa also had a male advisor. He was Kappa Alpha, and I think our Financial advisor.

I'm not sure about that. I can think of at least 2 NIC orgs that are coed at least at a local level.

From the NIC web site:

Statement of Position Regarding Single-Gender Membership

Fraternities and sororities have the right under the United States Constitution and civil rights laws to exist as single-gender organizations and to maintain that status, especially under the First and Fourteenth Amendments. Further, Title IX of the Educational Amendment of 1972 provides that sexual discrimination shall not apply to membership practices of a social fraternity or social sorority that is exempt from taxation under section 501 of the IRS Code of 1954, the active membership of which consists primarily of students in attendance at an institution of higher education.



Beyond this, the North-American Interfraternity Conference affirms that men's and women's fraternities offer excellent opportunities for men and women to share a fraternal experience, and it supports the National Panhellenic Conference in its Resolution on Single-Sex Fraternities. The NIC believes single-gender organizations develop the character of an individual by
• Providing students with campus communities that provide an intimate, family-like structure;
• Providing a focus on scholarship, personal development, trust, mutual assistance and friendships;
• Offering full membership to men and women in their respective single-gender organizations;
• Opening membership with no discriminatory clauses related to race, creed or national origin;
• Allowing the chapter and candidate an opportunity for mutual agreement on membership; and
• Allowing the members of these private organizations to identify their friends without restraint.

The Conference believes strongly in single-gender membership and the acceptance of entirely male or female members, and it asserts the rights of every member fraternity to confine membership to men and to exist

I read that more as affirming the right for member organizations to be single gender, not as saying that they can't be coed.

The complete last paragraph - didn't all copy to begin with:

The Conference believes strongly in single-gender membership and the acceptance of entirely male or female members, and it asserts the rights of every member fraternity to confine membership to men and to exist as single-gender organizations.