Competitive? Or a Different Term?
 

Another Greek posed a question to me yesterday and I wasn't sure how to answer her! She said that her daughter will be rushing at a medium-sized school in the South that people wouldn't call "competitive" at first. She said, though, that the truth about the school is that most girls want one of 3 sororities out of the total number and they drop out of recruitment if they're cut from all 3.

So no, you wouldn't call them competitive if you saw total or you knew that it's not hard to get into a sorority on this campus. However, it's well known in the area that it's really hard to get into one of those 3 desired groups there.

What do you think, GC? Is this campus competitive or not? Can anyone think of a term for it?

This one has a bunch of other chapters. I've really never heard of a campus like this. See, at most competitive campuses I know of, there are some chapters that are often considered "more desirable" than others but in this day and age, you don't get mass dropouts from hugehuge numbers because so many girls consider themselves lucky to get a bid anywhere. At this school, no. If they don't get one of those 3 groups, bye.

I brought this up in another thread, in that I don't think there are ANY schools (save IU) where it is actually difficult to get A bid. Even the big southern schools place most of the women who enter rush, and many, many schools have at least one group doing COB after formal recruitment. That's not to say that the weaker groups take anyone, but women who don't shine during recruitment but meet the qualifications for membership (I mean kinda the plain jane type or shy or whatever, but grades and such are still good) generally get bids to a sorority.

A campus like the one carnation describes could be called "strongly-tiered" or something. I don't know what campus, but if those three groups are offering a significantly different sorority experience from the others (for example, three have houses and the others have dorm floors or something), it's hard to pretend that the quota/total system can make everyone happy.

Selective?

I feel like at many campuses there are "more desirable" chapters, but the other chapters aren't that different. After being cut from those chapters, PNMs realize that there is no (or little) difference. What sets these three chapters apart from the rest? Do the rest really struggle with numbers?

Yes, they do struggle but I can't figure out why. After second party cuts, big numbers drop out if they don't get one of "the 3".

I'd think that the sisterhood experience itself would be the same but my informant says that the bigger 3 are perceived to be the coolest, guys want to date one of them, they win most of the campus titles, etc. The other groups have high dropout rates.

Even before you posted this passage, I was going to make a point along the lines of the way the tier structure descends. Based on only my GC-related understanding of SEC Greek systems, it seems like a lot of the most competitive SEC schools have many chapters that are considered very strong, with only one or two chapters considered weak (if that).

This is pure speculation here, but I'm betting that if there's more parity RRS-wise, then the cuts to PNMs become a little more random. And when you see a friend get released by a chapter she loves, but that you don't really like, you're better able to appreciate that chapter as desirable and worthy of a second chance.

When I was an undergrad, there was a perceived "top 6" and "bottom 5" with almost no middle ground. I don't know if there was actually a big natural break in recruitment strength at that spot (although, I suspect there was), but the perceptions create a feedback loop that affects retention for the chapters.

As for the notion of what's "competitive", my own definition is when a PNM who has put in a considerable amount of time and energy into prepping for recruitment, and who has very good paper stats, is likely to face severe cuts anyway.

For example, I wouldn't consider UCLA a competitive campus because there are so many women who sign up for recruitment at the last minute (around 1/3 of total PNMs). A chunk of women just aren't particularly socially adept, either. If you're presentable and can carry a conversation, you're probably going to do pretty well.

I think I know what you are talking about, and I guess the way to say it is as above - highly tiered. Where one tier is considered SO much more desirable that the other chapters aren't worth consideration. I have heard it before and I guess it strikes me like "if I don't get in to Harvard - I'm not going to college?"

If they really wanted to find a sisterhood - shouldn't they be able to find a home with other girls with similar ideals and interests? where they have more in common? In a big greek system - they should be able to find a connection somewhere?

The example here I guess is the chapter that has a extraordinarily large percentage of legacies in every pledge class. Wouldn't it be weird to be the 1 girl who isn't a legacy? To not have your mom or sister come to initiation? Why would you want to squeeze into something that you can't quite fit?

How many groups are there total?

If there are 6 or 7, I would call the campus "a living illustration of the demise of the middle class." It reminds me of something I read in a Rolling Stone article ages ago: you're either a superstar or a slave. If Greek life doesn't provide anything other than slightly increased social interaction (i.e. your living options are not appreciably nicer, Greek life in general is not viewed positively by the administration or the school, it doesn't really get you anywhere in other extracurriculars, you can have a successful social life without being Greek) and the majority of the women rushing are working-class, it may be as simple as they don't see the point of spending the money.

If there are 13 or so sororities, though, I would not put too fine a point on it and would just call it "Stupid Bitch Heaven."

I would contend that there is a management/marketing/PR problem at this school that IS solvable. True, it would take someone more savvy than me, but I think for a system to achieve near parity and the growth some campuses have seen in the last several years, you have to have a Greek Life director who is nagging the chapters about mixing up their social schedules, getting everyone involved in each other's philanthropies and nixing the cat-fights. And include in that helping the chapters with member retention. Without that, as 33girl said, you're left with SBH.

Maybe balanced tiered, moderately balanced tiered and heavily tiered? If only 1 chapter out of more than 10 is the least desired and most girls would take 9 or more of the others, that is extremely well balanced. With 3 (again 10+) we could call it moderately tiered, and then we have the "these girls need to get over themselves" campuses. But I still say if it's YOU getting cut, it's competitive.

I would say that puts most Big 10 schools at Moderately Tiered. I can't tell with the SEC schools because they seem to have really strong parity, but that may be a paper thing that doesn't translate to real life.

But it still doesn't answer how you tell a girl she's going to a heavily tiered school, that every chapter has great things to offer and to get over herself about being too good for any but the top 3 chapters.

What DubaiSis said. Apparently, women are joining for date or trophy potential. Seems the system needs a solid injection of "what it means to be Greek" -- which is a significant culture change.

Honestly, EVERY campus is competitive in its own way. As another poster pointed out, the vast majority of women who participate in recruitment, no matter where they go, will receive a bid if they maximize their options. What makes it "competitive" is how hard it is to get the bid from the group that everyone wants. If you actually have a campus where no one gives two rats asses which group they end up in the end, then your campus isn't competitive. I don't think that campus exists. The SEC isn't so much more "competitive" than other schools than tiered as other people have pointed out. The recruitment is so tough because it's a gauntlet, with women thrown to the side by groups they've been raised to believe are the only groups worthy to belong. It's all a mental game. The only place I'd call truly competitive is Indiana with their ridiculous bed rush.

I may have figured this out yesterday while my husband was watching "Legally Blonde." :rolleyes:

At my chapter, we used to have an unfortunate group of PNMs that would walk in expecting the chapter to hand them a "life on a platter". It got to be really hard to talk about what they would bring to the chapter?

I think that there are still some girls coming through that are expecting to be Elle Woods right off the bat the first day. They don't necessarily see the work that it takes to run a chapter - any chapter. In a smooth, well-oiled (moneyed) "top" chapter, those things all look easier. In a chapter that is struggling, someone (or hopefully someones :) ) has to put a lot of work in, but can still have a lot of fun, and that chapter can do a lot that a loose group of friends cannot.

On a big campus with 16-18 big chapters, there are still niches. People from certain hometowns or high schools group here or there. Legacies stick with their legacy chapters. People in certain majors group here or there, but like KSUViolet said with that much variety - you should be able to find one where you can make a home. Plus, you should be able to leave it better than you found it.

On a smaller campus with only 6 or 7 chapters, I think the differences between the haves and have nots (or made its and working on its) are more obvious. The girls that want to walk in and be Elle - don't get the expected fairytale ending to recruitment, so they walk.

But really now - if that's all it took for them to quit, would they have made a superstar sister or a leader for the chapter? :confused:

In addition to what you've mentioned, most women still have options throughout recruitment when there are more chapters. At Illinois, there are about five chapters that are roughly on par at the bottom of the recruitment strength game, so even the PNM's who don't shine as much are likely to have 2 or 3 pref parties to attend. Psychologically, going to three prefs and choosing which one to rank first is VERY different from attending one pref and feeling like this is all you have left.

That's why the situation Carnation is describing is so amazing to me. You would think that there would be some selling points beyond the top three chapters, and women who still had three or more options would be able to see that.

This, YES, YES, YES! Especially as SO MANY legacies come through competitive schools, enough to fill two or even more New Member classes. As a woman raised to pledge a certain GLO, I can say I know that it was a disservice to me to expect me only to pledge that particular GLO. My daughters are being raised to look for THEIR home, not mine. I hope they will be Thetas one day, but mainly I just want them to be happy.

This, this, this!

Back in the day, we had to bust our butts during rush for every single pledge we brought to the house on bid day.

And I loved it. I got to do all kinds of things I wouldn't have gotten to do in a bigger "top" chapter.

And not only did we have a killer sisterhood, it prepped me for the real world far better than being part of a "machine" house would have.

So rather than competitive, I'd call this situation Unrealistic Entitlement, though Stupid Bitch Heaven has a nice ring to it, too.

Oh yeah, this too (ROFLACB)!

Bless their hearts! Well, if that's what it takes to keep the bitch factor/ drama queen quotient down!

Granted it was a long time ago, but at Illinois there was definite status attached to being Greek. I don't think as many PNMs had the feeling that pledging a lower-tiered house was a worse option than being a GDI. The first question asked when you met someone new on campus was always, "what house are you in?" and if you said "I'm not Greek" the response was, "why not?" The social structure was:
1. The 3 queens
2. A mid-tier sorority
3. A lower-tier sorority
4. GDI

I think the problems occur at schools where being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent.

Did anyone else see this and start singing "we 3 queens of Orient are..."?

My biggest choice was between the group I joined and another where life would have been comparatively easy as far as bringing in pledges. However, as soon as I went there during rush, I could tell I wouldn't be happy there. They were all SO gung ho on their sorority, to the point of suffocation. When pledging started, and one of their pledges told me all she was going through (not hazing, but just a real pressure to make the sorority the center of your life and jettison everything else), it just confirmed for me I had made the right decision.

Those girls joining the "top 3" at carnation's school may not terminate from the group because it's giving them what they want socially, but I would bet there are members who are chafing under the requirements.

This is a question to anyone who knows - at the kind of schools where Greeks don't exist and the college randomly assigns people to be in this or that house, isn't there still (even if it changes from year to year) some sort of tier structure or pecking order? I mean, that's just the nature of life.

Ha, I think that was only among Greeks. My dorm floor was mostly athletes, and they couldn't tell a Sigma from a Lambda.

But yes, there was, overall, a sort of Greek vs. GDI mentality. I think one reason is that, contrary to 33girl's example upthread, living in the chapter houses at Illinois + paying social dues was pretty comparable to other living options. So, there was rarely a financial reason not to go Greek, and those of us who did couldn't understand why others wouldn't do it.

I wonder what the fraternity scene is like on the campus in the OP. Carnation, care to elaborate on that?

I can't think of a place where that is the case and fits Carnation's criteria in the OP. IMHO the number of schools where "being in a "lower-tiered" sorority is worse than being independent," in the South would be scarcer than hen's teeth. If I am wrong please do enlighten me.

Do you mean a campus like Notre Dame where your social life is heavily determined by what dorm you live in?

ND and its dorm system is also what came to mind right away.

And yes, the pecking order is alive and well until people don't care about it any more and drop out of the competition. Heck, GCB, as discussed on another thread, is all about it only 20 years +/- later.