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ScottieBoy 03-10-2012 04:29 AM
Hi everyone I'm Scott and I need some help with my situation
 
yolo

trisigma212 03-10-2012 09:43 AM
I'm pretty sure you can't look at fraternities in either the IFC or NPHC. Once you are initiated, you are a member for life.

Kevin 03-10-2012 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trisigma212 (Post 2131302)
I'm pretty sure you can't look at fraternities in either the IFC or NPHC. Once you are initiated, you are a member for life.
I'm pretty sure you're right.

trisigma212 03-10-2012 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2131306)
I'm pretty sure you're right.
hey I didn't want to step on any toes. I'm not in either conference.

I do believe there is a possibility if his nationals allows him to resign his membership. But that means that whatever group he wants to join allows that sort of thing, which some don't.

However, it's extremely unlikely that would happen on the same campus.

MysticCat 03-10-2012 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trisigma212 (Post 2131307)
I do believe there is a possibility if his nationals allows him to resign his membership. But that means that whatever group he wants to join allows that sort of thing, which some don't.
In NIC-world (IFC is a local campus group; the NIC is the national conference) and from the NIC's perspective, once you have been initiated into a member fraternity, you can only be initiated into a different fraternity if the first fraternity HQ informs the second fraternity HQ in writing that you are no longer a member of first fraternity. I say from the NIC's perspective because, as members of different fraternities have said here from time to time, even if NIC rules would allow initiation into the second fraternity, many NIC fraternities (which includes the fraternities you listed and all but one of the NPHC fraternities) have their own rules or policies prohibiting it. And even if a national fraternity didn't have rules or policies prohibiting it, chapters still may not be willing to consider it.

The guy in your Greek office should know better.

33girl 03-10-2012 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131286)
I tried being rush chair however, they wouldn't allow it and even if I did, it would hard to compete with the bigger fraternities.
Who is "they"? Why wouldn't "they" allow it? Unless your grades are completely abysmal, I have a hard time believing that your national HQ wouldn't be excited about a guy who wants to be rush chair that badly.

Hole in story, does not compute.

jazing 03-10-2012 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trisigma212 (Post 2131302)
I'm pretty sure you can't look at fraternities in either the IFC or NPHC. Once you are initiated, you are a member for life.
I believe that is just a campus wide thing. You can go to another campus and do it, its just frowned upon and makes you question your own commitments.

I know of a few examples that have done it at different campuses, and one that did it in the same campus.

AZTheta 03-10-2012 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazing (Post 2131336)
I believe that is just a campus wide thing. You can go to another campus and do it, its just frowned upon and makes you question your own commitments.

I know of a few examples that have done it at different campuses, and one that did it in the same campus.
MysticCat posted the correct information. OP, I would recommend following that advice.

ASTalumna06 03-10-2012 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazing (Post 2131336)
I believe that is just a campus wide thing. You can go to another campus and do it, its just frowned upon and makes you question your own commitments.

I know of a few examples that have done it at different campuses, and one that did it in the same campus.
You actually know a handful of people who have been initiated into one NIC fraternity, dropped, then joined another? I find that hard to believe. And if you do, I'm willing to bet they didn't go through the proper channels to get this done.

And no, it's not a "campus thing"... These are national policies set forth by each individual NIC organization.

Again, MysticCat knows what's up.

PiKA2001 03-10-2012 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 2131340)
You actually know a handful of people who have been initiated into one NIC fraternity, dropped, then joined another? I find that hard to believe. And if you do, I'm willing to bet they didn't go through the proper channels to get this done.

And no, it's not a "campus thing"... These are national policies set forth by each individual NIC organization.

Again, MysticCat knows what's up.
I know someone who did. I don't believe it's common but I wouldn't say it never happens. It involved a transfer student and his prior affiliation was never disclosed to his second fraternity. I can also see situations where the local chapter could sort of "look the other way" or "DADT" if they really wanted the guy for whatever reason. Not all chapters walk the straight and narrow.
BUT
I really can't see these other groups taking this guy as a member knowing that he has already been initiated by a fraternity on the same campus. And last but not least, I've never heard of any NIC Fraternity allowing former or current members of other NIC Fraternities to be initiated into their org (other than in instances of a merger).

ASTalumna06 03-10-2012 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiKA2001 (Post 2131352)
I know someone who did. I don't believe it's common but I wouldn't say it never happens. It involved a transfer student and his prior affiliation was never disclosed to his second fraternity. I can also see situations where the local chapter could sort of "look the other way" or "DADT" if they really wanted the guy for whatever reason. Not all chapters walk the straight and narrow.
I never said it can't happen.. Just that it's a little unbelievable that someone would know 5 people who have done it.

And that was my point - that if it IS true, I guarantee that not all of them went about it by the book.

I just wouldn't suggest this guy put all of his hopes on "maybe this other fraternity's chapter members won't care and I can join anyway." .. Because even if that was the case, all it would take is for one of the members from his original fraternity contacting the national organization of the new one for everything to go to hell.

Gusteau 03-10-2012 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2131314)
In NIC-world (IFC is a local campus group; the NIC is the national conference) and from the NIC's perspective, once you have been initiated into a member fraternity, you can only be initiated into a different fraternity if the first fraternity HQ informs the second fraternity HQ in writing that you are no longer a member of first fraternity. I say from the NIC's perspective because, as members of different fraternities have said here from time to time, even if NIC rules would allow initiation into the second fraternity, many NIC fraternities (which includes the fraternities you listed and all but one of the NPHC fraternities) have their own rules or policies prohibiting it. And even if a national fraternity didn't have rules or policies prohibiting it, chapters still may not be willing to consider it.

The guy in your Greek office should know better.
Right. Many groups will not release you to membership in another group, and some groups will not accept the release from another group.

If you are a Delta Chi we will not release you from membership to another group, nor will we accept a member who has been released from another group.

knight_shadow 03-10-2012 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusteau (Post 2131411)
Right. Many groups will not release you to membership in another group, and some groups will not accept the release from another group.

If you are a Delta Chi we will not release you from membership to another group, nor will we accept a member who has been released from another group.
Huh? Are you saying that a HQ will not honor someone's request to disaffiliate (regardless of that person's motivations)?

jazing 03-10-2012 10:44 PM
I think the harder part is finding a group that would actually allow such a thing.

AEPi's open laws state: "Initiation into this fraternity confers membership for life"

You should think about that when making the decision.

Gusteau 03-10-2012 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2131425)
Huh? Are you saying that a HQ will not honor someone's request to disaffiliate (regardless of that person's motivations)?
Not quite. Delta Chi will allow someone to resign their membership, but we will not provide a letter stating they may join another group. I know we're not alone in this.

knight_shadow 03-10-2012 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusteau (Post 2131429)
Not quite. Delta Chi will allow someone to resign their membership, but we will not provide a letter stating they may join another group. I know we're not alone in this.
From what I understood, the letter didn't have to say "knight_shadow is no longer XYZ and is free to join ABD" -- it just had to say "knight_shadow is no longer XYZ"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131431)
Well I have talked to one of the Sigma Pi members and he said it was fine however, I haven't reached the president to talk about it yet. My previous fraternity president has said it was fine if I disaffilated and could join another fraternity. I also talked to a Theta Chi member and he said I would need to talk to the president. So at this point, I guess I will call each fraternity president and see if they would allow it or not. I will also visit by the IFC office again sometime soon. And @33girl, thats how unorganized my previous fraternity was, we didn't have any elections for which positions people wanted. It was pretty much whoever rose there hand first got the job. However, at the time I was taking a lot of units and didn't have much time to put my complete effort into that position so I opted on doing it later.

I've also talked to multicultural fraternities and they were welcome to let me join and even gave me a bid this semester. However, I didn't take it because I didn't want to rush blindly like before and make a mistake. I want to explore my options then decide. If it helps, I suppose I can name my previous fraternity.
I doubt that those bids would still hold after you turned them down to join another organization (unless they're hurting for members).

knight_shadow 03-10-2012 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131434)
These are the NPHC Chapters
Sigma Pi
Sigma Alpha Epsilon

Pi Kappa Phi
Those are not NPHC organizations.

ETA: The CSULB Greek website is all kinds of fucked up. It lists Alpha and Iota as NPHC sororities, Zeta Phi Beta as a non-NPHC sorority, and Sigma Lambda Beta as a "cultural sorority" #QualityControl

I hope the OP knows how to do research without relying on that mess of a site.

http://www.csulb.edu/greek/chapters/

AlwaysSAI 03-10-2012 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131434)
These are the NPHC Chapters
Sigma Pi
Sigma Alpha Epsilon

Pi Kappa Phi
Total lane swerve, but I'm wondering why the above fraternities are listed as NPHC. Aren't they NIC, nationally?

jazing 03-10-2012 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2131436)
Those are not NPHC organizations.

ETA: The CSULB Greek website is all kinds of fucked up. It lists Alpha and Iota as NPHC sororities, Zeta Phi Beta as a non-NPHC sorority, and Sigma Lambda Beta as a "cultural sorority" #QualityControl

I hope the OP knows how to do research without relying on that mess of a site.

http://www.csulb.edu/greek/chapters/
It also doesn't list all the fraternities. I did a quick search, we're there as well

https://www.facebook.com/aepilb

Gusteau 03-10-2012 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2131435)
From what I understood, the letter didn't have to say "knight_shadow is no longer XYZ and is free to join ABD" -- it just had to say "knight_shadow is no longer XYZ"
Ok, I see where you're coming from. For us at least, we will not provide a letter at all.

knight_shadow 03-10-2012 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusteau (Post 2131445)
Ok, I see where you're coming from. For us at least, we will not provide a letter at all.
So if I were to ask to disaffiliate, what proof would exist? Does HQ just remove me from the rolls and keep moving? Or do I get something in the mail saying "Hey k_s, your membership ended as of 1/2/12 and you lose all rights as a brother as of that date."?

(This is me being curious. If this is not something that you can/want to share, that's completely fine)

Gusteau 03-10-2012 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2131447)
So if I were to ask to disaffiliate, what proof would exist? Does HQ just remove me from the rolls and keep moving? Or do I get something in the mail saying "Hey k_s, your membership ended as of 1/2/12 and you lose all rights as a brother as of that date."?

(This is me being curious. If this is not something that you can/want to share, that's completely fine)
You know, I'm not sure about that one. My inclination is to say you would receive written communication, but I really don't know. If you did receive written notice, I guess you could send that to the new group.

As often happens this much ado about a situation that is not very common.

knight_shadow 03-11-2012 01:47 AM
I thought you were drowning in bids? It sounds like you're just trying to join whoever will take you. That's kind of lame.

Ask the people on your campus. Even if the fraternity HQ permits it, there's no telling what the chapter will do.

WCsweet<3 03-11-2012 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131456)
Anyone know about Kappa Sigma? I heard they weren't in NIC anymore...so would that be an option?
Kappa Sigma Fraternity is no longer in NIC*. However, that may not change their ideas on lifelong membership. I suggest you research at many of the fraternities you are interested in. Many (potentially most, I didn't look them all up) mention lifelong membership in their mottos, values etc. It's kind of a big deal. I would suggest really sitting down and decide why you want to join another fraternity. Is it really because your fraternity wasn't big enough? Because they didn't allow you to take a leadership role (which you said you may not have been able to give all your attention?)? What do you think you will get out of being in a larger fraternity that would be different than the one you were in?

*On the NIC wikipedia page, they source GC for this information.

princessamy 03-11-2012 11:23 AM
Just because they say that they would take you doesn't mean that they would. No matter how desperate they are for numbers I doubt they would take someone who not only pledged but initiated into another organization and now wants to quit cus things aren't "working" for him. The truth is the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

33girl 03-11-2012 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131456)
Anyone know about Kappa Sigma? I heard they weren't in NIC anymore...so would that be an option?
Not being in NIC has zero to do with your question. They are still a social fraternity. Not only that, they are often on the IFC at individual schools. They just aren't a national dues paying member.

Gusteau 03-11-2012 12:11 PM
Now that you've disclosed your school, I have a very hard time believing your Greek advisor would tell you this is ok. I know her, and she definitely would not have advised you as such, knowing all that you've disclosed in this thread.

ASTalumna06 03-11-2012 02:57 PM
I'm going to revert back to your original "problem"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131286)
At the time when I pledging, they only had about 20 guys and now that I was initiated about a year ago, we still have only 20 guys because either people would drop or we would never get any pledges. For example, they only got 2 pledges this semester. It is really frustrating because everyone in the fraternity is lazy and never wants to do anything. I tried being rush chair however, they wouldn't allow it and even if I did, it would hard to compete with the bigger fraternities.
I find it interesting that you use the term "they" ... "THEY only had about 20 guys," and "THEY only got 2 pledges this semester," and "THEY wouldn't allow [me to be rush chair]"... There's no responsibility on your part.

You were only a member for a year, and you bailed because "they" wouldn't give you the position of rush chair. You DO realize you can recruit new members without having that position, right?

You could have tried to turn the chapter around. If you had put even half the effort in to your old chapter as you're putting into finding a new fraternity who will take you, you might have been perfectly content in your old chapter by now.

If you rush at these other fraternities, what do you plan to tell them regarding why you left the other?

LaneSig 03-11-2012 09:15 PM
FYI- Sigma Chi does not allow members who have previously been initiated into other fraternities.

MysticCat 03-12-2012 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2131425)
Huh? Are you saying that a HQ will not honor someone's request to disaffiliate (regardless of that person's motivations)?
Well, fwiw it's worth, we (not NIC) specifically have in our governing documents that a member cannot resign membership. The only way for membership to be terminated is expulsion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieBoy (Post 2131431)
Well I have talked to one of the Sigma Pi members and he said it was fine however, I haven't reached the president to talk about it yet. My previous fraternity president has said it was fine if I disaffilated and could join another fraternity. I also talked to a Theta Chi member and he said I would need to talk to the president. So at this point, I guess I will call each fraternity president and see if they would allow it or not. I will also visit by the IFC office again sometime soon.
Just know that just because these folks are telling you that everything would be fine (1) that doesn't mean they are abiding by the rules they're supposed to abide by, (2) that doesn't mean you'd get a bid, and (3) just because they'd allow it or give you a bid doesn't mean it would be honorable.

Quote:
If it helps, I suppose I can name my previous fraternity.
Please do.


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