President Obama vs. Governor Jan Brewer
 

http://col.stb.s-msn.com/i/D6/3E5712...779B55BB15.jpg

ROUND 1...FIGHT!!

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...ange-over-book

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Their debates regarding immigration and her book aside, where was the Secret Service? Since when has someone been able to argue with, and put their finger in the face of, the President (in public)?


"See what happens when we let women and Blacks in leadership positions? :rolleyes: I will never vote for a woman or Blacks again...whereas when white politicians do dumb stuff, I never say 'I will never vote for a white man again.'"

~ Some Idiots

It seems to me that this immigration thing is never going to get solved.

I'm surprised that people aren't more up-in-arms about the new procedural change at UICIS that allows people to process their spouse's paperwork before sending them back home to their home country, not knowing whether they'll be able to return and when. If nothing else, I was hoping it would shed some light on the fact that marrying an American is NOT the automatic greencard the movies make it out to be (most of those plots involve expiring visas, which is a whole 'nother ball of wax). There are thousands of people out there with US Citizen spouses and children who live in fear that they will be deported and never see their families again because there is no law allowing them to get legal papers without them returning to their home country for a minimum of six months, usually longer, not knowing if they'll ever get to come back. If someone told you that you had to willingly leave your spouse and children and it's a throw of the dice whether you get to come back, are you leaving?

/Woah, Soapbox

That tripped me out. She only did that because it was Obama. If that would have been any other president, she wouldn't have reacted in that way.

Can anyone think of instances where fellow politicans have screamed "you lie" during a President's speech or pointed a finger in a President's face (in public/in front of media outlets)?

That may have happened back in the day when the office of the President of the United States held a different weight.

Hayle naw!

Glad the President has more cooth than I b/c I would have gone into straight "smack a bish" mode had she did that to me. He might not have yoked her ass up, but if I were her, I'd steer clear of the Mrs. for a good while if she knows like I know.

And whoever was on Secret Service duty needs to get FIRED for allowing that BS to happen.

;) No, you would not. You understand that you stand to lose more than you gain. The same goes for President Obama and Michelle Obama.

I agree with you about the Secret Service.

Gov. Brewer lacks class.

I live in Arizona. I know whereof I speak. Frankly, she looked like a loser in that exchange. Shaking a finger at anyone... come on, people. Really?

If you want honey, do not kick the bee hive. Right?

(hetero)sexism/

Governor Brewer is just mad that she was not part of President Obama's "Let's Stay Together" solo.

/(hetero)sexism

WHOA - seriously? She really did this to the President of the US? How rude & obnoxious. There is no excuse for her behavior.:eek:

I don't think the Secret Service can realistically be put at fault here. Clearly, the sitting governor of a state being visited is going to be in the president's protected security circle.

I do think, however, the level of disprespect shown President Obama is unprecedented. From congressmen yelling "you lie" during a previous State of the Union, to this incident, to others, this goes well beyond the role of "the loyal opposition."

Can you imagine all the "Obama as Othello" stories we'd have seen if the President had handled this less professionally?

Big, Black, cornrow-wearing, sunflower seed eating President Obama (known hereafter as O-Dog) towered over and threatened a little blond woman who was only speaking her mind, her right as a citizen today ... blah, blah, blah :rolleyes:

nah, the president kept his head and handled it the only way he could.

Yeah, having photos makes it seem like a more intense and lengthy discussion than it may have been. I just think that by the time the discussion got heated enough where a finger is waved and the President has to walk off mid-sentence, was there anyone moderating this ordeal?

For instance, angry politicans do stupid things and it is not unheard of for people (Secret Service or anyone else) to monitor and moderate certain transactions.

I watched "Undercover Brother" (which has a different connotation depending on the topic) last night. They are so silly. It brought up some things that went on with Gen. Colin Powell and are going on with President Obama.


Exactly. It is enough that President Obama plays basketball, sings Al Green, and people think the White House smells like fried chicken, no lye relaxer, and hair grease.

Ch2tf would not have done anything, either. She's just talking smack. :)

I second this sentiment. SMH. What a bad hostess.

I haven't seen any videos of this incident. Do we really know what is being said, outside of the speculation from news agencies?

The quoted section says they were smiling and talking. How do we know she wasn't in the middle of the story and that the camera caught her at a bad moment?

/random thought

I can't agree with you more.

I think the smiling and talking happened before the "misunderstanding."

All of the hassle/wait times is because of the amount of fraud that goes on even with the current steps and procedures in place that couples have to do. If we gave insta-citizenship the second the marriage license was issued it would be quite the mess.

My thoughts exactly. We really don't know what the exchange was at all and as far as anyone knows HE could have said something to her to set her off ( Obama is suing her you know). Either way, I'm not surprised that the media is trying to portray this as Brewer being a crazy bitch chasing Obama out on the tarmac to cuss him out. LOL

I don't know about this. It probably is just more apparent because of the increase in media coverage.

Obama isn't suing Jan Brewer.

Not being able to obtain citizenship without leaving your family for more than 6 months seriously is not even in the same ballpark as insta-citizenship. Just because something requires time and procedure, doesn't mean it should require what it currently requires. There is a middle ground.

Even the articles state that Gov. Brewer claims that the President either set her off at that moment or in the past. Does it really matter whether the President said something Gov. Brewer disliked which made Gov. Brewer point a literal finger at the President? I think not.

***
I hate how the cameras move away from them once they end the handshake and start talking. LOL.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...nt-Obama-video

Media coverage of everything in the world has increased but the media has always existed. Some level of media coverage of the President of the United States has always existed. My question was whether anyone has heard of (i.e., articles, historical footage, videos) people being able to jump crazy on the President of the United States (at least in the past 40 years). Let me know if you find anything.

I don't think so. Many folks from both sides of the aisle who have been in Washington long enough to see changes have commented on the deterioration of civility, and that's what this is part of.

As for Dr. Phil's question, my memory is that at the time of the "you lie" incident, historians commented that it was pretty much unprecedented.

Thanks, MysticCat.

So, the videos of the Brewer-Obama greeting all end the close-up right at the introductory handshake. Brewer says she was being expressive with her hand gestures. I understand expressive facial expressions and hand gestures that can look crazy or disrespectful if there is a camera shot. However, a finger point seems to be more than a hand gesture. A finger point is more than an expression of excitement.

Saying something like "WE can make this immigration bill happen...I look forward to working with you" can be more stern when you add a pointed finger. Saying "I'm sorry you disliked my book but I respect the Office of the President and I hope you read my entire book" is more stern with a pointed finger.

It seems as though a pointed finger in the face only makes sense if you are saying "the diner up the road has the best bacon burgers and Old Bay fries...drive that way and then turn that way...diner on the left side."

Other than that, put your damn hand down.

Bottom line: People don't shake fingers or point fingers in other peoples' faces. You just don't do that. It is absolutely a disrespectful, demeaning, belittling, hostile gesture. There's nothing friendly about it, and I can't even imagine a "joke" in which you'd shake a finger in someone's face.

There's no misinterpreting that photo. Her body posture, facial expression, etc. don't connote a polite exchange. Once more I am disgusted to have her representing the State of Arizona.

"He set her off" - what? Then don't show up to greet him; send the lieutenant governor. Seriously. The flu is rampant in Arizona. You could just be sick and save yourself the aggravation of interacting with someone you obviously don't respect. Shame on you, Jan Brewer. Shame on you. I thought you could do better. Obviously not.

Yes DrPhil, YES. Put your damn hand down, Jan.

Maybe Brewer was pointing at the plane and saying "that's hot."

Obama's DOJ is/was suing the state of AZ and IIRC Brewer was listed named in the lawsuit, so yeah Obama was/is suing Brewer (in proxy at least). I'll admit I'm not up to date on whats going on with that but taking into account Brewer had her own lawsuit against the Obama administration that was thrown out last year I'm not surprised that there is bad blood between the two.

Like a K-3 visa maybe?

Does it matter? I don't know, but what I do know is that we really don't know what went down on the tarmac here... Brewer might just be a "hand talker" lol. I'm sure there was some heated words exchanged, but only Obama and Brewer knows exactly what went down. I'm not privy to listening in on Obama's phone calls and meetings but given the nature of politics I'm sure heated exchanges happen all of the time, just not caught on tape.

No, it doesn't.

And if Brewer is a hand talker, she has hopefully learned her lesson.

At this point, it still requires the undocumented spouse/parent to leave the country without a guarantee that they'll ever be allowed back in (and if they are, it's a minimum of six months later). That's unacceptable.

lol

Is it me or does it look like Obama leaned in for a hug at 44 seconds in? Maybe they ended up hugging it out.

Government officials differ in opinion everyday including ending up on different sides of lawsuits. Arizona sued the Federal government over the border issue and the Obama administration sued Arizona. Obama did NOT sue Jan Brewer, and to pretend like it is the same as a personal suit is ridiculous. She isn't personally responsible for the outcome and won't be personally liable for any damages. She isn't being sued for anything. As a governor, her name gets used as the official face of our state. If she can't handle that, and it leads to her wagging her finger in the face of visiting dignitaries, then she needs to get a grip. It's not the reason behind all of this anway.

The key word here is undocumented. When you try to bypass immigration laws when entering the country it only ends up convoluting the whole process of trying to stay in the country for the immigrant. Changes to the process are on the horizon though, so we shall see....



ETA-

President Obama speaks about the encounter-

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...of-proportion/

The President is supposed to find a smooth way to rectify and silence the situation. Gates-Cromley-Beer, anyone? Obama-Trump, anyone? The President did not publicly respond to the "you lie" incident because it spoke for itself and the President's silence was golden in that instance.

They can "change the story" now to silence the incident but...okaayyyyyyy...I still see a pointed finger.

Well, it's just been confirmed beyond a doubt as to who has class in this mess. Brewer's been running her mouth about how President Obama "disrespected" her by walking away from her.

Really? He was supposed to let her scold him? She just has the worst manners ever. Not only in this situation, but in the majority of situations where she's called upon to act in a manner consistent with the office she holds.

I want there to be a rogue cameraperson who will defy orders and release the full footage of the exchange. All the public has is the handshake footage and photos of the pointed finger.

Where is a rogue cameraperson when you need one?

I know...I know...going rogue is counter to what I have been saying about respecting the President and having proper security.

I just read the governor's wiki entry. She sounds classy. :rolleyes:

The vitriol directed at the President really seems unprecedented. During the Bush years, we were all just content to call Bush a dumbass. Now, it's in style to be seen being physically aggressive towards a sitting POTUS?

Forgive my (youthful) ignorance, but how recent of a phenomenon is the political pundit? I'm sure they have existed in one form or another for many years, but it seems that they've come out in full force recently (both sides of the aisle). I think our dependence on the internet has helped them spread like wildfires and I don't like it.

Oh, and the race thing too.

This is sort of like saying Phil Knight is suing Reebok for patent infringement. It's correct in the sense that Obama is head of the Executive branch, but it seems fairly reductionist.

After all, in another stilted sense, you and I are suing Jan Brewer.