Independent Chapter?
 

Ok - lets get some threads rolling - at least for Tom

What do you all think of Lambda Chi going to a college where they dont want Greeks or Lambda Chi- Franklin and Marshall come to mind- they have 8 fraternities but dont recognize any of them- should we go in?

Here is an article on that from Syracuse about ATO- some fraternities do this= should we?

Lenoxxx

FROM ONLINEHERMES.com

Independence comes with price, chapters weigh advantages
By Jason Grunberg

Every year salmon go against the current to spawn and proliferate.

The same is true for independent greek chapters nationwide. The chapters and their members must strive to recruit new members and keep their chapters alive in an inflexible system.

But salmon have a significant advantage over independent chapters – the fish swim the same route every year, but for the chapters, they are venturing through unfamiliar waters, said Wynn Smiley, Alpha Tau Omega's national chief executive officer.

“This is something completely new for us, and our typical policy is to get rid of a chapter once the host institution dissolves the local chapter,” he said.

Syracuse University’s Alpha Tau Omega is the only independent chapter of the fraternity's 240 nationwide. Their national policy is not atypical of other nationals nationwide, Smiley said.

National greek organizations rely on local institutions to support their chapters through greek advisors and the dean of students. Individual chapters do not have access to those support systems and are often times failed experiments, he added.

“You really want to work in conjunction with any host institution because we certainly rely on them quite a bit,” he said. “Independent chapters were something we always wanted to stay away from.”

Theta Tau, one of SU’s three independent chapters, is similar to many other Theta Tau chapters nationwide. The fraternity is often branded with independent status because their national regulations conflict with those of the Interfraternity Council.

Because Theta Tau is a national engineering fraternity, they only allow engineering majors to join the fraternity. This goes against IFC rules because the chapter discriminates against anyone who is not an engineering major, Theta Tau brother John Wise said.

Theta Tau's new member education period also conflicts with the IFC. According to IFC regulation, the education period can be a maximum of six weeks, but for Theta Tau, six weeks is the minimum.

Although Theta Tau is not a member of the IFC, the chapter will only worry about recruitment if SU’s engineering college is dissolved, Theta Tau brother John Carpenter said.

“Theta Tau members aren’t people who would have joined other fraternities in the first place,” said Carpenter, a sophomore mechanical engineering major. “They are people who before going to college never though about going greek.”

Although chapter numbers are typically used to determine a chapter’s success, Bill McClung, Theta Delta Chi national executive director, uses a different scale for independent chapters.

The success of an independent chapter is based on both their national’s willingness to recognize such chapters, and the status of their host institution, McClung said.

“The hardships faced by independent chapters differs from campus to campus, but the major differences can be seen between public and private institutions,” he said.

Theta Delta Chi opened its first independent chapter in the mid-1990’s in Greensboro, North Carolina. McClung thinks the chapter has a greater chance of survival because its host institution is public.

“Generally private colleges usually move to assume a great deal of control of that aspect of student life, so operating a greek organization becomes difficult,” he said. “The situation becomes indefinitely more complicated when an organization attempts to become independent of a university.”

In the 1950s, Williams College, McClung’s alma mater, took total control of its greek community and soon prohibited any student from joining greek letter organizations. Because Williams is a private institution, students could not contest the decision in any public arena, so the greek system died there.

But public institutions are unable to impose similar restrictions because they can be successfully challenged in court, McClung said.

Because independent chapters can have difficulty surviving, McClung hopes the Greensboro chapter will soon join the local Interfraternity Council. By joining the council, he believes most survival difficulties will be avoided, provided the chapter follows IFC and national regulations.

“We don’t have anything parallel to the Greensboro chapter because all of our chapters are recognized,” he said. “Regularizing the situation will make it easier on us as a national and on the chapter because any real antagonism or hostility will probably be solved when they are recognized.”

If the university does not recognize a fraternity, then neither will their HQ. Independent chapter are risk mangement nightmares because they are not recognized by national fraternities, thus these chapter do not follow the laws of the fraternity.

Perhaps I am way off topic or we are thinking of two different ideas of independent chapter.

Clarification
 

David-

Let me clarify. Independent chapters like the ones mentioned in this article are as folows

1- Chapters recognized by a national but not a college- Such as ATO at Syracuse. ATO nationals is supporting it but Not syracuse university. Another example is TKE at Univeristy of Tennessee. They work under the tenets of their national in regards to risk management , initiation etc.

2- Schools where the college wants no Greeks and acknowledges no Greeks but there is a Greek system- the only example I know of is- Franklin and Marshall College.

F&M is interesting because while the college doenst "recognize greeks" they have one on campus greek house for Chi Phi and several chapters that have 90+ members and large houses. For years it has been Lambda Chi's policy not to bend the rules to go there. Sigma Pi, Delta Sig, Skull and a host of others have supported their independent groups for years there.

What youare refering to I would call underground groups- no national or school bakcing but still maintaining a national name identitity. We have about 6 such chapters on the east coast. And there seems to be no soluiton in sight for that either!

Lets get the conversation rolling!

Jason Lenox
Phi Tau Zeta #274

Oh FYI
 

WIth F&M college we used to have a huge chapter there until 1980

The Alpha Theta Zeta chapter- with over 1300 alumni.

Jason Lenox
Phi Tau Zeta #274

I was told that a few years back, Texas A&M didn't want Greeks but sororities formed anyway off-campus and the school gave up and recognized them; they're now a strong system.

Also, the sororities at Stanford were said to have re-formed after an absence despite nat having university approval, which they now have.

With alot of the ones you see examples of- if the national supports it it seems as if the school caves in after a while.

The other question is for off campus housed greeks- how much are the colleges really doing for them?

Jason Lenox

Jason, thanks for the clarification.

Now that we have clarified what is being discussed- Lets get some opinions on what Lambda Chi Should or shouldnt do with this new "gray area"

Jason Lenox

Jason, as you and I know, there are gray ara chapters out there of other Fraternitys! But I do not beleive our Inrernational will work any where in that direction! If they are welcomed on campus with open arms then we wont! If enuff Nationals go ahead and do this, I think the schools will also go along and revcognize them! Many schools are aginst Greeks but we do a hell of a lot more for the schools than they realize!

Since we are looking to build a new house, and we see Brothers donating to the U. We suggest to them, put the money toward the house and Chapter where it will do us more good!

I paid my money to go to school and the only reason I go back is for the chapter!!!!!

If we do not grow, we wither and die! We have a big overhead at Interntional to pay for along with the Risk Insurance!

I for one say go for it if there is a group that is interested!

Besides, I am not to impressed with the new Digital site! I suggested that they put in the General site again as had more on it than the others and to adverise it in the C & C!

Da so far nothing!!!!!!!!:mad:

We must be thinking of a different Franklin. There's a Franklin in Franklin, IN. with a Lambda Chi Chapter. Actually, that's where Eric Richards (risk management at IHQ) went to school.

J and S would love to find this one out myself!

The International sight is back up and digital is working again but hell I am once again the only one posting on it! What do we do, we have one of the very best overall sites of any National Group in Greekdom!

The only problem is they will not hear us, I have written them via e-m but never get anything back!:mad:

I am not sure if I can get away and afford the cost of the regional meeting in Feb. but if this keeps up I damn well might! They may throw me out, but heck, I have been ask to leave other places!:D

Hell, get on the reg. site of GC and get Brothers on our thread. The TKE site is usually jumping!

I check it out as Erik Conard was the one instrumental in getting me towared LXA and working in the back ground to help!:)

The Franklins
 

Yes there is a Chapter at Franklin, and a dormant chapter at Franklin and Marshall College in PA


hope it clarifies

Jason Lenox

Actually Tom, I think my money has to go to the sigma chi website. www.sigmachi.org. Very professional, almost like a news site. I would like to see more content and less pretty at lambdachi.org. Just like a news site, tools, happenings, and maybe a daily chapter spotlight. IHQ is ALWAYS beating it into our heads about intrafraternalism and they think the answer is "GO to GA, Leadership Seminar, and Regional Leadership" And thats it. Dont THEY feel THEY have some culpability in all of this? Maybe the website would be a great place to start. Could really serve to connect the zetas. Of course, withthe exception of Marty Smith, most GHZ members were PLEDGES. People who havent been collegate in about 40 years, and have no concept of what it means to be collegate today. Maybe THATS why they cant get ZETAS to respect risk mgmt issues, or recruit like they should. Eventually they are gonna have to understand that maybe being hostile to the Zetas isnt the best long term solution. Case in point: IHQ refuses to give out its 800#. They want to save overhead. I can respect that. Maybe shouldnt it be about customer service? Heres an Idea: Lets get that Mailroom organized and get AM pins sent out in a timely manner. Hell how about not having to wait a YEAR for membership certificates? (not even going to mention how I had to DRIVE to INDY to get mine. <was actually passing though, but had waited 8 months> so I stopped by founders road to pick it up.) That'd be a start and the 800 # would be a kind gesture. Would show that the GF is about meeting the Zetas needs. Dont think it would put the GF into recievership. If it would, how about cutting half of that middle management it supports. My rant is done.


PS: I think the toll-fee number is 1-888-873-9617. I turned our former SAC rep upside down and shook it outta him. Write it down and USE IT. Hell, were paying the bill anyway.

Life, you are right about International being backed up!:rolleyes:

Heck, they do not a lot of the new Brothers on the roles and are charging for ones that have Graduated! We are talking several thosunds of $$$$$that tey want us to pay!

Will check out the SX site as get a chance!

You guys check out the U Rhode Island site! If they have not changed it, they do a heck of a jobe with the Coat of Arms! Contact Brother jacob Lee there and let him know you got from me! He is great Brother!!!!!!!! :D

Off Track?
 

OK so are we toally off subject into "nationals sucks" as opposed to my original thread about opening zetas where schools dont give them a thumbs up?

Or maybe that has something to do with the old dudes that arent hip to change?

Jason Lenox

Phi Tau Zeta #274

BS JAS, Erik C who is a TKE gave me a lead in Denver and will shoot INT e-m! Shot them an e-m about a school in the South who want all locals to go Nat. Never heard a word from Indy! Sucks!
If we do not recruit, we lose! Lets get back on schools that have been closed and go to schools that are ripe for Greeks!

Oh damn smoke alarm is going off, dinner must be ready! LOL:D

Later Bro, and thanks for being there!:)

I know it's been a while

anway, we're getting our House Back, much love to all Phi Sigma Sigma sisters for having such a caring group of ladies to take care of something that means so much to us.

anyway. At University of Rhode Island, we're not recognized by the school, but we are recognized by PanHill and IFC. So we don't get any money or support from the U. but we get it from IFC, Panhill, FMA and international LXA.

in mimicing New Yorks policy on shutting down clubs, the U. here is trying to ellimanate our system slowly. However, our IFC doesn't have a J-board (judicial) and just put together a consitution. So needless to say, our system has been lawless since the begining of time, no wonder the school hates us so much.
This up coming semester is going to be difficult, I actually have to put the J-board together!! another one of my brothers, Conrad, is in charge of philantropies, so together we are going to push hard to allow the greek system to show the good it can do for the U.
The one thing i see is a whole bunch of guys around campus getting together, rushing, becoming "frats" and then getting kicked off campus cause they're irresponcible!! Even National fraternities like FIJI, Sigma Chi, PIKE, Sigma Nu, SigEp, hell ZBT just came back from an incident that happened five years ago. Needless to say, it's all about following the Risk management stuff that LXA gives out.
keep up your own, take care of your own, make sure you're stable enough to set a good example to other "colonies". International by hearsay and letter has informed us that they want to start one up at Brown, and they want us to help them.
That's all well and good but what can we do if we're unstable and not taking care of our brothers, our dues, our rush. . so on and so on.
keep your head up, things are getting better all the time.

in ZAX
Jacob Lee (j7 on wriu fridays 9-mid, 90.3fm) hehe, had to plug:-D
HZ 1268

ps: i got my first little brother!!! and we're signing housing contracts this monday, 29 old north road is ours!!!!!!!!
CAUSE GOOD THING COME BACK

So let me get this straight- URI lambda chi is NOT recognized by campus and hasnt been for some time?

I think that is great if it is true. Some of these colleges are pikers and we should go IF we want to be at them!

So again I ask what do you think about a new colony opening without a college approval or offical greek system at a college like Franklin and Marshall?

Jason Lenox

to be honest, i think you'll be well recieved by people who don't know anything about the system.
since you're not suported by the college, and you're not recognized by national then in your rush you're going to have guys with a common goal, to survive.
they'll want national to suport them, so they'll work hard, they'll be quality men who will imporove not only you're colony, but will help imporve the college's veiw on the system.
the U. might then to suport, not nessesarily fund, but recognize you as an orginization. that can make life easier.
it's all politics, and that's the shitty part. Guys can't just get together for a common good anymore. we have to have a mission statement, busniess cards, and a clean police record (jk) what's up with that?
if you find quality guys that want to put forth the effort, your labor will be well worth it, you'll have a strong brotherhood, and everyone will see that, family, friends, international, chapters near by, and your school.
good luck:-)
do it up!!!!!

in ZAX
Jacob Lee
HZ 1268

Jacob, congratulations on getting house back, did not know you did not have the house in the web site adn werent recognized by the school! Jas do either of you know th policy from International? I got the idea that they were not for it! Hell if that is the case, the school not wanting Greeks 90 % would be gone off campus!

They need to get head out of butts! Helmbok said were going to try and do 4- new groups a year for long range growth !

Lets get the chapters that have been closed and new ones at the same time!

When I was colonized, there was a race between LXA and TKE for the number of chapters!

the two main ones at the front of this was Erik Conard, TKE, and Our own Beloved George S. Geroge was there for the colonization and chartering. Erik was very instrumental in getting me toward LXA and did work behind the scene with the School and International!

I guess George ust have liked me as got the LX designation for the zeta!:D

OKAY, Enuff on my part!;)

It is LXA's policy not to exist on a campus where the campus itself will not recognize the chapter/colony. Believe me, I know this all too well - UNC revoked recognition of LXA in 89, and, even though the chapter was making significant progress in getting back on their feet, the de-recognition was a death sentence.

There are fraternities that will exist at a school where the campus will not recognize them. Pi Kappa Alpha and Sigma Pi come to mind at local campuses where the university revoked their recognition. Believe me, we do NOT want chapters like these...they became true example of Animal House - and therefore that was the membership they recruited for.

I believe HQ wants only to be on campuses where chapters will be recognized, for the role of the fraternity is to be a "partner" with the university in shaping the individual members. Where one organization or the other will refuse to recognize, this equation is null and void. I think Tom Helmbock even had a reference to this in a Reflections article some time ago.

Pretty much Independent in Canada
 

Hi guys - not meaning to jump in here, but it was an interesting question, and do I have an example for you ...

These are the current LXA chapters in Canada ..

U of Toronto - Epsilon-Epsilon Zeta, 1927
U of Alberta - Epsilon-Rho Zeta, 1945
McGill University - Iota-Iota Zeta, 1953
U of Western Ontario - Delta-Eta Zeta, 1993
Wilfrid Laurier U, Laurier Colony, 2000

These would be for the most part, be considered "Independent" (ie. lacking in Administration control).

The only one that is "controlled" by university/faculty is WLU. U of Alberta does have a Greek Advisor who is a faculty member, but he just makes sure that there is peace in Fratland, and helps resolve any issues. UBC (LXA is closed there) is the same.

UWO is recognized as a student group, but receive no funding nor are controlled by the university. U of Calgary (LXA closed) is the same, but although no funding, get all the meeting rooms, office space, etc. in the SU that other campus groups get.

U of T & McGill Student Unions do not recognize indivdual Greek chapters, but do recgonize the Greek Councils, which are run by Greek student members (no faculty/university control). If there are issues between groups or someone has stepped out of line, the 2 groups deal with it.

Of the 26 campuses where is Greek life is present in Canada, only 3 have faculty Greek Advisors (meaning that they are all PhD in a field, and they are Greek). The common practice is that Greek groups are recognized as student groups, can get the same benefits as other campus groups, but no funding. An Office of Student Activities doesn't exist really as this is all run through Students Union, so campus groupsare a bit more autonomous than or American counterparts.

And here is something that will REALLY blow your mind .... every campus Student Union runs a bar/night club on campus which is a MAJOR (count 6 zeros) source of income for SU's ....(remember the drinking age here is 18 (19 in Ont & BC).

If you like more informaion, please PM me ....

Shala

~~~~~~~~~~~
Shala Berry, AOII
President, Canadian Interfraternal Assc.

Shala
 

Did you get the name I sent you and e-m? Let me know and will send againg if you did not!!!:)

yes - thanks!! :)

a respectful rebuttal
 

It is LXA's policy not to exist on a campus where the campus itself will not recognize the chapter/colony. Believe me, I know this all too well - UNC revoked recognition of LXA in 89, and, even though the chapter was making significant progress in getting back on their feet, the de-recognition was a death sentence.

There are fraternities that will exist at a school where the campus will not recognize them. Pi Kappa Alpha and Sigma Pi come to mind at local campuses where the university revoked their recognition. Believe me, we do NOT want chapters like these...they became true example of Animal House - and therefore that was the membership they recruited for.

I believe HQ wants only to be on campuses where chapters will be recognized, for the role of the fraternity is to be a "partner" with the university in shaping the individual members. Where one organization or the other will refuse to recognize, this equation is null and void. I think Tom Helmbock even had a reference to this in a Reflections article some time ago.

---To respond to LXAAlum-

I totally disagree with this idea from our national fraternity and agree with Sig Pi and PIKA-

Being non recognized by a campus if we want to be there should mean we cant or shouldnt. The more research I do I find that the examples of this are successful for the exceptions they make, as well as some failures as well. Id cite Delta Sigma Phi at F&M in pennsylvania as a success stories that isnt an animal house and an independent chapter.

Id also say that as far as being a partnership- I question what if anything many campuses do for our individual chapters

At my college in pa-

no (real ) help with recruiting
no help wth housing

many out of date rules that are enforced very unevenly etc.

and- our chapter followed non hazing and risk managment statutes because we were Lambda Chi's and not because the school did or didnt have these policies.

Im glad to see this forum has gotten back to where i intended it to be! Thanks LXA ALUM

Lenoxxx

Jason, while I am not sure how to put this forward I will try!

In Our talks, Pa. Schools are in another world! Some Schools do not recognize Greeks but tolerate them. Others give the Greeks money from a fund. Others have locals and want International now. Of course some want to do away with Greeks altogether.

Does that about sum it up?

I for one will never go back to my school if my House is not there! I will never give any money to my school as they want to be asses to the Greeks!:mad:

If not for Greeks where or what would any Homcoming be but high school bands trodding in horse sh#*!!!

While I love what I have after thse many years, I am also the hardest on the, E-M Helmbock, he knows me! ;)

Well maybe we are cookin now!!!!!!!:D

We just need to get more on this thread!!!!!:cool:

Jason,
I think one of the reasons (this is sheer speculation on my part, but seems reasonable enough) that LXA does not wish to be on a campus that will not recognize a chapter are possible legal ramifications that may, and I emphasize, may arise from risk-management or other issues.

While I think it is totally reasonable to have a chapter at a campus that either never has or has revoked recognition, I'm not sure if General Fraternity can afford the risk. In these days of legal sue-anyone-and-everyone mindset, that is probably one of the biggest reasons.

I do think that the General Fraternity is coming around on expansion. Not necessarily changing policy on expansion, but, they sure seem to be very aggressive recently in placing new colonies. I'm not sure if this is due to personnel, mindset, or financially based motivations, but, it sure is nice to see new colonies always showing in the Cross and Crescent, and, for the first time, the new colonies are outpacing the announcement of closed chapters.