Since We Have A Few Educators in GC
 

***Of course, everyone is free to respond***

I thought it would be interesting to get your take on the case being argued before the Supreme Court about students grading papers then announcing the grades aloud for the teacher to record? I remember doing the same thing as far back as elementary school. We passed our papers to the person in front or behind us and graded the papers while the teacher called out the correct answer. Sometimes we would call out the grades, too.

Re: Since We Have A Few Educators in GC
 

My personal belief is that people SUE too much and over some of the most inane things. I want to sue all the parents who send their kids to school dressed better than their reading ability.

Anywho, I remember the same thing. Since I have been teaching, I have not had my students exchange papers and grade them because I know how scandalous they can be. :p However, for three years I have had 2 former students be my student helpers who would grade any objective tests and quizzes for me but with this freaking court case, our principal ruled out teacher helpers which BITES!!

Did the Middle Child come up with this topic? Good one, I got to vent :D

What I've found is that we spend a lot of time keeping information confidential that the kids tell everyone anyway. I used to call kids up to my desk to give them their average, and the ones who failed would scream out the grade in a confused voice, thus telling everyone that their average was a 52 or whatever. Last year my school had a total of 2 kids fail a particular portion of the state test. If I were them, I'd be so embarresed (It's had to blame it on the test being hard when everyone else in the entire school passed) I wouldn't tell anyone but my parents, but both of them told all of their friends before the day even let out. One of them came back to see me (I am now a counselor), crying because her friends got mad at her and teased her for failing. I was like "Well, why did you tell them????" :eek:

This is a really good topic!! I think that schools have a responsibility along with the parents to help shape the minds of our youth. With the many problems that they outside of school, sometimes it is the school, the teachers and their peers that give many kids good lessons in self-esteem, sharing and pride. Being that kids are so vulnerable, I think it would be a hinderance to read off students grades. I think that also kids can be cruel and reading grades out loud may be detrimental to the average and below average student. School should be an enriching experience not a lesson in competitiveness. It should also be a place where learning the material and understanding it is just as important as achieving high marks. Almost anybody can read, study and regurgitate information to get a good grade, but in the long run it means nothing, and teaches you nothing.

Well Sorors, as a middle school teacher-- I try to keep their grades in confidence
But they do scream out bad grades to their friends and laugh (ie the young man that currently has a 18 average in my class thinks that it is funny)


When we were in school there was the shame factor-- We were ashamed to have bad grades-- these kids don't care-- I would have never shown anyone or talked about making a 30 on test......

Like C. Powell said "America's greatest lost--is it's loss of shame"

Maybe if they cared a little more about grades then their parents wouldn't be suing over such silly things--- or coming to my classroom ready to fight because their child has 5 zeros...

:rolleyes:

I totally agree.
I give my students grade reports and they share them.
Last year I had a boy with a 2% F in my class and used to brag and sing, "HOW LOW CAN U GO!?!?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Some kids seek attention any way they can get it, even the bad kind.

Please tell me I read that wrong....
 

This child had a 2% grade average?????

NOW ISN'T THAT THE TRUTH?

Well, the Supreme Court dismissed the case saying that the issue was trivial. The mother who sued is going to be on the View tomorrow.

In elementary school we used to grade each other's papers (and help out our friends sometimes ;) ), but we never really called the grades out. I can see how some children will be embarassed and get picked on. But, I honestly don't think that it should be an issue. Kids will always find something to tease you about, that's why they're kids.

As far as this particular case, the child had a learning disability and was severely teased and bullied about his grades. In this case, I feel that the teacher should be compassionate and not do this with his class. I don't know what happened between the mother and the teacher. But, this should have gone to the prinicipal or the school board at the very farthest.

This type of thing should just be handled from class to class and not made into a legal issue.

Re: Please tell me I read that wrong....
 

Yup and this his stinky (literally) momma wanted to have a meeting to tell us how gifted her son was. . .the same son she sent to school on Halloween dressed like a woman
:eek: :rolleyes:

YES 2% like that nasty milk

I've seen some of those 2% grades. When the last week of school gets here, the mom and son will come to you to find out if there is any way the child can pass.:eek:
I do think that as educators, we must display compassion, however we are not the sole owners of this responsibility. Parents forget about their kids feelings far more that teachers do. I had a parent come to my school to have lunch with her daughter, and she was telling me that her daughter was still totally unable to read and that this was hard for her since her brother began reading a 4 (mind you, I am a high school counselor). The students friends were sitting at the lunch table the entire time. The student just looked at me like she was about to cry. Could I, as the child's counselor sue the parent? No. I did talk to her in my office about the fact that the child may not want everyone in B lunch to know that she can't read, but I handled it individually, and did not make it a legal issue (this same parent would probably sue any educator for saying the same things that she said).

Re: Re: Please tell me I read that wrong....
 

Dayum.
You need to write a book about this.
Your stories have me LMP&GAO.
:D :D :D :D

Nope..
 

I never let my students grade eachother's work. They are way too slick. :rolleyes: Even if that wasn't true I wouldn't do it. I have had so many problems with parents (of failing students) looking for any little excuse to question the grading system, grading methods, etc. that I grade everything myself. If they want to tell each other their grades, fine by me.

When I was growing up, my teachers let us trade papers and grade them. We loved that. I don't know if many people cheated for their friends. I remember we had to sign our names at the top so that if there was any discrepancy, the teacher would know who to go to. I don't know if my teachers ever went back and checked, but just the thought that they might kept me honest. :D

My students have no shame. I have a student who earned a 6% the first marking period. He was pretty proud about it and bragged non-stop. :confused: I'm one of those people who worried about my permanent record since I was in elementary school. :o I couldn't even imagine having a record of my earning a 6% on a test, nevermind having 6% on my report card. Even worse, in high school? :eek:

On the flip side, some of my "good" students pretend to do poorly to gain acceptance. They always hide their papers and pretend to get a failing grade. I don't have many students that do this, but it happens enough. The majority of the students that do exceedingly well are more than happy to tell their peers their grades.

I see it everyday. :(

Wellllllllll............

I just hope that the parent that is willing to sue is the same parent who comes to parent teacher conferences and helps their child with their homework. Otherwise, I don't want to hear it.

I'm a teacher in training so I haven't learned that patience yet. ::rolleyes: :

Re: Nope..
 

Me, too! I would get upset if I got a "B".

I've seen that happen as well. There was one student I remember in particular that all the teachers knew was quite gifted, but he downplayed his intelligence for the sake of not appearing "smart". I knew him since kindergarten and he was always in a gifted and talented class.

Even in high school, teachers wanted him to take AP classes, but he wouldn't. He was without a doubt the smartest African-American male, if not black student, in our senior class. I remember overhearing a conversation between two of his teachers once. They were so disappointed in him. One time, I got so angry with him for not living up to his potential and came out and asked him "why?". I never got a straight answer.

I would never give my students one another's paper to grade. I would only pass their papers out face down and I would never announce a grade aloud. I feel that if they want their grades broadcasted, let them do it. I have seen on TV shows, etc. where teachers call out the student's name and then announce their grade (Saved by the Bell was notorious for that!:) ). Sometimes, my students don't discuss their grades. I have heard students lie to their peers (when they thought I wasn't listening) and say they had a better grade than they really earned.

The problem is that too much emphasis is placed on grades these days. Of course, grades are important, but I've seen students come to tears over getting an 89 instead of a 90. I know that one point can make a difference between an 'A' or a 'B,' but is it really that serious? Grades are not a measure of knowledge anymore these days. It's more of a competition and it all ties to self-esteem. Students feel that if they are "smart" and the "dumbest girl/boy in class" gets a better grade, then they are a COMPLETE failure. No, it may just mean that the "dumb kid" is better at memorization! I have weaker students in my class who have once or twice scored higher than some of my stronger kids. I have also overhead the stronger ones question the weak students about whether or not they cheated, etc. :rolleyes:

We have to let our students know that grades are important, but they should not be the entire basis on which they value their self-worth.

We have to let our students know that grades are important, but they should not be the entire basis on which they value their self-worth. [/B][/QUOTE]



SHOW YOU RIGHT!!!!! Alot of my former classmates who had the real good grades shocked me...... when we got out of school because they demonstrated that they self-worth was low by means of the tasteless activities that they got themselves into. BUT let me also say that their were those who made good grades and did go on to doing very well for themselves. So all I'm saying is more emphasis need to be placed on morals.

Re: Nope..
 

I remember doing the same thing too. :D

I have a friend who is a high school teacher. There was this one female student who missed class all the time, to the point that she was not going to graduate from high school unless she attended summer school. Her mother came up to the school explaining that her daughter was pregnant and should be allowed to graduate on time. My friend simply said, "If she doesn't go to summer school, she's not graduating!!" It wasn't my friend's fault that girl decided to lay down and get pregnant.:mad:

Another friend had this one little boy who never came to school with the required materials (pen, paper, etc.). She had to always remind him to come to school prepared. During Open School Night, my friend addressed this issue to the boy's mother. That woman had the nerve to say to my friend, "Well, you're the teacher. You're supposed to have pen and paper" WTF??? If that were the case, places like Staples would not exist!! What a moron!

Re: Re: Nope..
 

Please believe that I would have told that woman that if she didn't provide her child with supplies that I would gladly start deducting points. I would have no problem helping out if a parent would notify the school or me (the teacher0 personally and let me know that she had financial problems. But to just ASSume that we should be responsible for providing school supplies is outlandish!

As for the pregnant girl, too bad, so sad. She can do summer school or just be prepared for a second chance at senior year. I have a friend that went to school until the day that she went into labor, so she has no excuse.

Re: Re: Re: Nope..
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
[B]

Please believe that I would have told that woman that if she didn't provide her child with supplies that I would gladly start deducting points. I would have no problem helping out if a parent would notify the school or me (the teacher0 personally and let me know that she had financial problems. But to just ASSume that we should be responsible for providing school supplies is outlandish!
Honey child, at our school we MUST supply the pencil and paper...:mad: To me our children are losing the sense of RESPONSIBILITY!!!!! Last year 90% of my students were either failing or had a D average and they thought a D was GOOD! When I contacted parents throughout the year whose kid(s) was failing NONE of them returned a phone call! I saw a total of MAYBE 15 parents the whole school year and they were the SAME parents! I teach in an urban school setting, the hygiene,the number of pregnancies and STD's, and the lack of respect is p-i-t-i-f-u-l. Don't get me wrong I have students who just shine...that's what keeps me going...but I have too many whose PAREnts just don't care. People don't realize but teachers play momma,daddy, counselor and everything else..and some of these parents trip me out with all these lawsuits and telling their kids what they can say and do to teachers....:mad: :(

Re: Re: Re: Nope..
 

OOOHHHH- Just imagine what that child has to go through. His/Her mother will not even buy the child school supplies. It is not the childs fault. How old is the child- Is the child old enough to get a job? If not I would give the child school supplies. Why should he/she get a bad grade because they have an irresponsible parent. Most of us probably did not have to deal with this but don't take it out on the child- they have no control over their parents actions! I would refer this situation to the social worker or school counselor- Maybe something else is going on............... Some people are too proud to say anything.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope..
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by miss priss
[B]
Parents are a childs first teachers! If these parents do not care about their children than who else will! Maybe they do care but have so many issues to deal with that they are overwhelmed. Poverty brings a host of issues. Having taught in an urban environment- I under stand where you are coming from but I had to remember why I was there- The smart good kids are going to do well and succeed. Most have good parents but what about the difficult kids. I felt much better as an teacher when I could get through to a troubled off track kid than a straight arrow. I found that once I sat down and got to know who I was teaching and where the kids were coming from I was able to better understand my kids. Of course this is difficult when you are suppose to be teaching but I think it is important for educators to get to know their students. Especially the troubled ones. You may be the only person who listens to that child all day.

IF NOT ME THEN WHO......
IF NOT NOW THEN WHEN................

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nope..
 

I teach at a school that provides supplies for the students. And yes, when they come to class unprepared, they lose points. These may not necessarily grade/participation points, but simply points that I, PERSONALLY, keep to mark down if a student comes to class prepared, is helpful, behavior in line, etc. They could come out of that student's bonus points pool (the ones that can provide the swing between a 'B' or an 'A', etc.) I do this to teach the students responsibility.

I don't have a problem with a teacher providing paper and pencil or whatever for a child sometimes, but to do it everyday is crazy (unless you have to)! We have to make parents responsible for something! Parents get off too easy sometimes. I'm not saying that we can spot a child that's struggling financially, but if you can walk into my class with tennis shoes that cost more than my outfit, shoes, and handbag put together, and you have no paper and pen, then YES, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! I would talk to the counselor if I sense a major problem. That can make a huge difference.

well said ms diva! Half these kids come in bling bling and sugar sharp! And can't spell what they have on....But sell some snacks you will make a killing($)!
Usually, if I see them buying snacks they pay for the pencils and paper and I don't sell it cheap!
It is crazy! We had a "Valentine Ball",keep in mind I teach middle school, these so and so's rolled up in stretch limos! The girls had on see- thru dresses w/really high heels and the boys had on dobs and what I call Ghetto suits that matched...ya know the lime green and orange suits lookin like a bowl of j-e-l-l-o.@#$$@%$% I wanted to smack the taste out of these parents for letting these BABIES look like smuts. And they had the audacity to take pictures. They just looked too grown. But wait that's not the first time either.Let me digress now........

:eek: MIDDLE SCHOOL!!?? :eek: I didn't even have a limo for my SENIOR prom, let alone a Valentine's Ball. :rolleyes: Believe me, I have to go :eek: sometimes when I see what some of these kids wear these days! But then, sometimes, when you see the parents you know why..... :rolleyes:

Yep....
 

ANNNNNNND let's not talk about 8th grade recognition! It was pitiful.....they cat-called (ya know POOOOKY, RAY-RAY whatup dog!!!), they had a limo and the parents allowed their kids to go out for a LATE night dinner (I'm talking past 10 p.m....tooooo late for a child to go out) after the dance we had for them....


These 3 girls had on a black dress that were variations of each other....picture this ....one was a reallly low cut dress that had an accordian type sleeve that was see-thru which kinda reminded you of a choir robe v-sleeve and the bottom was a mini skirt with a sheer bottom. Their hair was in a top not (pin curls) and they had glitter EVERYWHERE! Now what do they have to look forward too?

Re: Yep....
 

not a damn thing!

and as for the supplies thing I buy supplies--but I have a home and child too. It seems to me that only educators are to buy the tools to their jobs and we don't make squat. I don't know any engineers that HAD to go out and buy a drafting table for their office in a large firm.
Many of these mothers sit at home--and welfare takes care of them. I couldn't get WIC or $350 worth of food stamps a month because of my income--so I have to leave my baby and go to work!

And these ladies get free everything!! School supplies included if they got of their behinds and sought out the help.

And as for these middle school students--child please-many of them went to a school sponsored trip to Europe last year ($1000) and they can't bring a pen to my class:rolleyes:

I provide supplies and they still won't do the work.

:mad:

Re: Re: Yep....
 

Girl, you said it!! That is the point that I wanted to make, but I was trying not to go there! But you blazed the trail and I'm right behind you!!

I know that there are people out there on welfare, get food stamps, WIC, supplement checks for electricity, Section 8, Medicare, etc. YET they don't buy supplies for their children. They know how to seek out all the "luxuries" of being poor, yet still put the burden off on teachers. If I could get $8 rent (I know someone that paid "that much" :rolleyes: ), free electricity, water, food stamps--which can also be used like a debit card now,-- free insurance (medical care), etc., you had better believe that my kids would have paper stacked to the ceiling, be fresh and clean everyday, and all that. They know how to seek out free this and that, but don't know how to find programs that provide uniforms, school supplies, and other things for kids.

I am not coming down on people that truly have it hard because I know that they are families out there that get these supplements and still struggle. However, the overwhelming number of families that I know that receive this aid are living larger than me and I WORK EVERY DAY! I'm not struggling or anything, but I'm not living lavishly either. I love my job and I can't complain about helping kids, but when the children who don't have paper can come to school dressed to the nines, I have to think. How can you buy a $125 pair of Jordans for a kid, but can't buy a 25 cent pack of paper? :rolleyes:

But ya know what reallllly ticks me off is when they say you are not doing YOUR job and have the audacity to go to the principal or board to "tell" on you and you may need to "tell" FIA how their child can't read or do simple math in the 8th grade!

Look, I love the kids I teach because I grew up like them. But the time has drawn nigh to hold parents MORE responsible for their kids education....Like instituting mandantory PTSA meetings at least 3-5 times per year, tutorial/afterschool programs for slow learners...no exceptions!.., if they can't read or add by kindergarten they don't move to the next grade or risk losing ANY federal funding you get, and I personally think they should wear uniforms....

However this is a much deeper issue....
I'm tired of seeing some mothers risk potentially smart kids by smoking weed or drinking during pregnancy..you can tell this is going on by how they act throughout the day....its just sad:(

I can go on and on for days about what I am sick of, but the one thing that I hate most is SPECIAL EDUCATION!! Don't get me wrong, I am a special ed. teacher and I love it. I also know that there are some kids out there who really do need the help of special ed. But then you have the kids who have virtually NOTHING wrong with them whose parent(s) have them declared "special" or "challanged" to simply get the check!! WHY stick this stigma on your child for the rest of their lives just for a small financial gain? :mad:

I'm just going to stop there before I get riled up in here! :o

Oh Do I feel you
 

You wouldn't believe how many kids are sent for therapy and don't have ANY disorders AT ALL!!! Now they're CREATING disorders. :eek:I mean come on. Where does it end?


I honestly feel that parents are leaning toward saying something is wrong with their kid rather than kickin little Billy's butt when he's running around telling them to shut up and kiss his bottom.

Re: Oh Do I feel you
 

I recommend that anyone who is working towards a degree/career in education, pyschology or social work to take this course: Psychopathology of Children (or similar title). I've taken this course about a year ago (got an A- in it too), and I have learned a lot from this course. When we touched upon children and Special Education, my professor (who is also a Clinical Psychologist with his own private practice) stated that there are many children who are placed in Special Ed who really should not be there. It has been a hot topic for discussion for the longest time and the children are the ultimate victims here.

Re: Yep....
 

My sentiments exactly.

I just wanted to say to all the educators on GC, have a safe, successful and stress-free (wishful thinking?) school year. Stay strong!!

I return to "the mile" (lol) next week Thursday.

TTT
 

Report: Plodding pace costs schools top teachers

WASHINGTON (AP) --For five years, Roni Cooper tried to get a teaching job at a New Orleans public school. She had experience, credentials and an interest in working in the hard-to-fill field of special education -- just the combination schools want.

No one would even take her application.

Finally, at a job fair in May, she met the new leaders of the school district and gave them her story. It wasn't the first one they'd heard about a plodding, mismanaged process. Within a week, they promised her work. She's now teaching deaf elementary school students.

"In some of these inner cities, it's just nightmarish," Cooper said about the hiring routine. "They're missing people who want to do this for tiny amounts of money."

A nationwide report released Monday supports her view: Urban schools are losing high-qualified candidates because of dysfunctional personnel departments and sluggish hiring timelines.

It's the central theme of the analysis by The New Teacher Project, a nonprofit group that helps some of the country's largest school districts recruit teachers.

By late summer of a given year, when many urban districts make job offers, many candidates have fled for suburban systems that move faster in recruitment, the report said. The lost prospects, it added, are more likely to have better college grades and a degree in their teaching field than those hired in the cities.

"We're not saying all teachers in urban schools are weaker. There are a lot of very strong, committed teachers," said Jessica Levin, the report's co-author. "But the goal has to be to increase those numbers dramatically, and we feel this is a solvable way to do it."

Call for policy change
The findings are based on analyses of job applications at four urban districts in the Southwest, Midwest and East, all given access in exchange for anonymity. Project leaders also conducted phone and e-mail surveys and conducted focus groups with university faculty, teachers and others to put the findings in perspective.

The problems in the selected school districts are representative of many city school systems, said Levin. Cumbersome application reviews, poor customer service and a lack of urgency are common barriers, the report said.

But so are policies outside the control of personnel departments, it added.

Some teachers are allowed to provide virtually no notice that they plan to resign or retire, leaving schools in the dark about coming vacancies until the fall.

Often, the report said, schools must hire union-protected teachers who want to transfer from other schools, which slows the process and prevents principals from hiring whomever they want.

Many state and local budgets also aren't set until the end of June, if not later, causing financial uncertainty that put schools at a disadvantage, it said.

The report called for those policies to be changed, a task that a coalition of large urban districts called daunting.

"One can say, 'Well, just change it,' but sometimes that means either going back to the bargaining table or going to the legislature and changing law," said Michael Casserly, executive director of the Council of the Great City Schools. "Neither thing is always very simple to do."

Casserly did praise the report for raising important issues and said his group will work with The New Teacher Project to pursue improvements.

Hiring challenges
On balance, the report fairly reflects tendencies of urban schools and may even underestimate how poorly their personnel departments run, said Adam Urbanski, vice president of the American Federation of Teachers, the union that represents most urban teachers.

But Urbanski, a board member of the group that produced the report, disagreed that seniority should get reduced importance when teachers want to be hired at another school.

"It is unreasonable to expect that tenure within an organization, coupled with satisfactory performance, ought not carry some sort of assurance that you won't be replaced by someone walking in off the sidewalk," he said.

One city principal, Gwendolyn Boyd of John Marshall Metro High School on the west side of Chicago, said the report does not largely represent how hiring works at her school.

Boyd said she hired 20 top candidates in late summer and that union transfer rules have not presented her a problem. Chicago school leaders have taken a step the report recommends: offering an incentive for teachers to send notification earlier if they plan to retire.

Traditionally, many school districts have trouble filling jobs in fields such as math, science and special education. And recruitment is often tougher in urban districts because of salaries, working conditions and academic challenges that turn off some teachers.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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An interesting read...........

PhysEd question...
 

Does anyone know what the guidelines are to teach phys ed? I am sure it is different state to state, but I'm just wondering. I'm almost positive that you would need CPR/First Aid certification, I'm just wondering what else. Anything you can offer would be appreciated.

FYI-In case my DC/B'more area SF's are interested
 

One of the organizations that I work with, Eduserc is sponsoring a High School Development Fair at the Baltimore Convention Center on Saturday Nov. 8.

This fair is designed to provide students with an opportunity to explore career options, receive one-on-one counseling with someone in their field of interest, learn about resume writing, money management, how to survive after high school and many more topics that will add to their success in high school and beyond.

For the parents, they will have an opportunity to attend workshops that will help them to financially prepare for college, how to be an effective role models, how they can survive after their child (ren) graduates from high school and much more.

There will be a Scholars Luncheon for Students who have achieved a 3.7 or higher grade point average and they can also attend the Fair for free.

Cost: $25 before Oct. 25
$30 after Oct. 25
$35 on site

If you know anyone who is interested in attending, please visit the website at www.eduserc.org to download the brochure and registration forms. They can also contact Brian Smith, Executive Director at bksmith@eduserc.org

If you know of anyone who may be interested in exhibiting at the event, they can contact Yvette Smith, Marketing Director at yksmith@eduserc.org or visit the website www.eduserc.org for additional information.

Brian is a very good friend of mine and has worked very hard to get this event off the ground and make it a success. If there are any of you who attend undergrad as engineering students and were a part of NSBE, you should know Brian and his commitment not just to NSBE but to the importance of giving back to the our youth.

I hope some of you can attend this conference or pass the information to those that you feel will benefit.

Thanks!!