I'm gay, looking to join a southern fraternity... Help!
 

Incoming Wall of Text:

I am transferring to either Duke or UNC or Elon in the Fall next year and am planning on rushing. But I’m gay. I’m not flamboyant or stereotypical. I am not interested in any “historically” gay-friendly fraternities (if there is such a thing), because they would probably be too liberal for me. So I was just wondering how this will affect my chances for a bid? Now, it’s obviously not something I’m going to throw in peoples’ faces and constantly talk about, but when is it appropriate to tell? Should I keep it to myself, or should I be upfront about it right from the start? If I should tell, when should I, and what’s the best way to do it? If my gayness might discourage a fraternity from getting to know me, what could I do to make up for it? Would endowments help or would they be seen merely as economic arrogance? Or is it hopeless, and should I just not even waste my time, and instead apply to some university up north?

Basically, I need any and all advice you all can give me about entering the [southern] Greek system as a gay man.

Sorry for all the questions. Some of them might be stupid. I’ve never done this before, so I appreciate your understanding. Thanks in advance for any help, advice, or suggestions you might be able to give.

There's another thread here, http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=120694. It's a trainwreck, but you might be able to get a few nuggets out of it.

My perception is, as far back as the 80's when I was in college (a large Midwestern university so admittedly not exactly the same environment), there were a few to several gay men in a lot of the fraternities, although most were probably on the down low. A guy friend of mine laughingly said there were so many of them, him included, the fraternities should have been having exchanges with each other!

There are also a few threads about lesbians wanting to join traditionally straight sororities. You can probably gain some good advice from those as well.

If it were me, I'd probably feel obliged to out myself before pledging, but as in so many other issues mentioned on this board, you don't need to vomit out your life story in the first 5 minutes of a conversation. I think you can probably gauge the atmosphere of a fraternity by attending their events and have a decent idea of how they would handle the news before spilling the beans.

Ditto here, but then we went to large midwestern universities. I do think there is still a bias in southern universities, not just for gays but for other races. When I look at pictures of the sororities and fraternities from my university vs. SEC schools I don't see the same diversity that I would see above the Mason Dixon line or in the west.

Now, that is not always the case. I have a very good friend that was president of his fraternity at a small college in the deep south and he not only is gay, but flamboyant.

My Elon experience is from 2000-2004, but there were several gay men in fraternities when I was there. I'd meet the guys and see how you fit in with them.

1. Make sure you transfer somewhere where you'd be happy regardless of whether you go Greek or not. This applies to everyone, really. In other words, don't go to a Northern school solely because you think your chances of being Greek are better.

2. I agree that you don't want to be like, "Hi, I'm Chratos and I'm gay," right away when you get to rush parties, because you are so much more than your sexuality and you want chapters to see that before telling them. Because you are not "flamboyant" and because you're transferring, it might not come up in conversation, and brothers of the chapters might not figure it out. That said, I do think chapter members should know sometime before offering you a bid, that way you know that your orientation is not a problem. I'm sure you can gauge the right timing and way to casually mention it without making it seem like that is your defining characteristic. In other words, let them get to know you first, but do tell them.

3. I went to Maryland, and our chapters are very diverse. This applies to race, religion, socioeconomic status, and among fraternities, sexual orientation.* Although we're below the Mason-Dixon line, I don't think we're very Southern, and Maryland is rather liberal, though the Greeks as a whole are a little more conservative than the rest of the student body.

4. I would tend to think of gifts to the chapters as economic arrogance, and trying to buy a bid, but I'm a yankee sorority woman, so perhaps Southern fraternity men will weigh in on that

Good luck to you!

*I knew several openly gay fraternity men during my time there (2003-2007), but I did notice a double standard in that I didn't know any openly gay sorority women, though I know some that came out after graduating. I don't know if this is more common everywhere, but I think it has to do with the [sad] fact that fraternities and sororities care about what the opposite sex GLOs on their campus think of them. In the eyes of sororities, bidding a gay man won't hurt a fraternity's "status", but fraternities don't want to mix with a chapter labeled as the "lesbian chapter". Just my theory.

I was just having this conversation with an NPC sorority alumnae, and we both came to the same conclusions. I think it also has to do with the way we (that is, IFC/NPC organizations) conduct recruitment. When your numbers requirements are less stringent their tends to be less stress about how your membership affects performance. Very generally speaking, I believe that men tend to think they can make the fraternity, where women tend to think the sorority makes them - so tent talk becomes a rampant issue for the way a PNM will perceive a group.

/hijack

I think that you may be able to find a chapter that accepts you, if you are really open to multiple options and don't have your heart set on X chapter, but I would also say that to a straight PNM, too.

Endowment would be super tacky. A wonderful thing to do once you're an initiated member, but as a PNM, it would certainly be viewed as trying to buy your way in. Also, don't you want to be accepted for who you are rather than always think that you were only bid because you made a donation?

That isn't a trainwreck.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I will take a look at that other thread.

I'm not exactly SET on a certain chapter, but I have done some research and have found a handful that interest me. But I guess I won't really know until I rush and meet everyone. And "diversity" in a fraternity isn't something I care about or pay much attention to; I just want to make some good friends and meet new people.

I've been to a lot of my friends' fraternities parties and fundraisers and community service projects and whatnot, and they all seem really nice (actually going to some fundraiser I was invited to with Lambda Chi on Tues). I just don't know if they'd treat me the same way if they knew I like dudes lol.

Anyways, again, thanks for your responses. I appreciate them.

I'll ask you the same thing I ask women considering greek life. Would you really want to be part of a fraternity who didn't like you for who you are?

I think as in any large group, you're likely to find guys who are accepting and guys who aren't. I also think that some fraternities will be more likely to have a higher percentage of guys who are willing to be accepting than others.

When you say that you're not interested in "diversity," what does that mean? The more open minded a group is, the more likely your situation will be accepted.

Good luck to you.

Duke, UNC and Elon are not going to be quite like SEC schools. (And LOL at Duke being a southern school.)

Seriously though, my hunch is that some chapters will be comfortable with it, others maybe not as much.

Absolutely.

I had to laugh at the "Duke being a southern school". Some of us refer to Duke as UNC at New Jersey.

None of these schools have a large number of huge in size Fraternities in the tradition of the SEC schools. Elon is pretty big for the total size of the student population but there are not a lot of Fraternities to choose from either at Elon or Duke.

I venture to guess that all Fraternities have gay members at some time or even at all times. Mine did and there were some in my Fraternity who did not like it at all and stated publicly they would have voted out the gay pledge if they had known.

In many cases this is just not something that is advertised or even admitted to by many Fraternities. I would take caution in how I approached the subject as, when you get right down to it, it is no ones business but your own. Even though we like to believe we are the "enlightened", predjudices are evident in many, if not most, of the organizations.

We always said The University of Southern New Jersey at Durham, which I almost put in my earlier post.

Lol.

I love the "University of Texas at Norman" references during Texas/OU weekend. I'm glad other states are doing the same.

/my only contribution

UCF has one!

also I know that a couple of UCF (univ. central fla) fraternities have gay members in straight fraternities and they are well accepted :)

I know what you're trying to say, but I don't think any of our GLOs are "straight fraternities" -- that is just the majority group.

Hey man,
im a gay Phi Psi up in PA. Honestly i would just be upfront about it. If you get shutdown because of it, that organization obviously wasn't a good fit for you. I was lucky enough to have found the Phi Psis early in my college career and it never became a problem but i have heard of organizations where it could be. Just like the entire rushing process it all comes down to finding an organization thats a good fit for you and accepts you for who you are.

Your alma mater (and mine, and the other 12 in the PASSHE) have come a LONG way on this subject, but what you're doing is kinda like telling him to wear a Hines Ward jersey to a Ravens game in Baltimore. The culture (as in Greek life, the importance of Greek life, and in general) is very, very different there.

The gist of his message it, he's telling the guy to be true to his self. Regardless of where you are or which organizations or areas are alike or different, it sounds like sound advice.

Noooo, he's telling the guy to say right away that he's gay. That may not be the best route to take everywhere.

Wearing my Ward jersey to a Ravens game in Baltimore is totally on my bucket list. But I like being combative.

I have to agree with this. Coming from a huge SEC school, you have to realize that these organization have been around for a LONG time, and are usually looking for a specific person. I mean just look at totalfratmove.com, and almost everything you read is about "slampeices" and hooking up with girls without knowing them. I'm not saying to not rush (believe it or not, there are many closet gays in fraternitys), but I would not suggest mentioning your sexuality during rush. I know that many people say that you should find a fraternity that accepts you as you are, but just know that you will come across people who are prejudice and will cut you for it. Im not saying its fair, but its the way the greek system works. Greek system tends to work as a dictatorship, not a democracy...

Uh...you're not Greek...

Why are you giving advice (fraternity advice, at that)?

That doesnt mean that I havent dated any fraternity boys or that every guy in my family was a member of one... I'm just giving my opinion from personal experience.

Your family and friends' affiliations don't matter -- YOU'RE not Greek, so you shouldn't be giving advice.

There are plenty of places to give your opinion on this board. Threads about what GLOs are looking for and how GLOs operate are not those places.

What personal experience? If you'd dated doctors and every guy in your family was a doctor, you'd feel entitled to offer medical opinions too?

Bless your heart.

The OP said he's transferring to UNC, Duke or Elon. One of these isn't huge and none of these are SEC schools. Any of these three schools are going to be different, sometimes very different, in various ways from your "huge SEC school," including in ways that are relevant to the OP's question.

I'll say it now, I don't think it really matters. But that is just me. My chapter has one openly gay member, and it was pretty much known when he pledged (according to what he told me) that he was gay. He came out in HS, so whoever was rush chair at the time didn't mind.

I will say though that pledging might be different if you are gay, depending on how the "brothers" take it.

I'd have to disagree with you on UNC. UNC is pretty decent greek wise with as much tradition as any SEC school. I would actually venture to say that UNC greek life is very similar to an SEC school. Now for Duke and Elon, no probably not the case. As for the OP's question...I've got no expertise on your situation. But man oh man, I'd really wish you'd think long and hard about wanting to join a fraternity. Pledgeship is hard enough when you're straight.

Hmm...

a) LOL at "decent greek wise with as much tradition as any SEC school." Lots of schools are "decent greekwise" and have lots of tradition and are still different from SEC schools.

b) I've got 30+ years of familiarity with campus culture, including Greek life, at UNC. I stand by my assessment that things are different in various ways from SEC schools.

I thought my "decent greek wise with as much tradition as any SEC school" was funny too. In fact, I was laughing so hard I broke a rib....

So let me get this right, (not doubting your 30+ years of familiarity with UNC greek life), since Texas A & M and Missouri will be entering into the SEC, by your logic, their Greek Life will change. Since it is now, an SEC school.

I stand by my assessment that schools outside of the SEC can have large, tradition based, very conservative Greek Life Communities.

And I also stand by my assessment that even if the Greek Life Communities at various conference schools were vastly different, the national Glo's themselves would not be that vastly different per state. So a large Clemson and a large USC fraternity would be basically similar in who they target. Am I not close? Or would a Baylor, Texas, SMU, and TCU fraternity be so different that one would offer a bid to a homosexual PNM and the other have no intention of even thinking about it?

I knew of openly gay men in Beta Theta Pi and Sigma Chi at Illinois. This was a decade ago, too. If you think those groups wouldn't give gay men bids at SEC schools, it is most definitely not the same at all schools, or even at all large Greek schools.

I actually don't think Sigma Chi would give bids to gay men at an SEC school, so I don't know if we agree or disagree. And Illinois has different political views than your SEC states. I used Texas and SC as examples because they are both states that are predominantly conservative. SC being very conservative. But North Carolina is also a very conservative state, is it not? So, just based on that, I would say the Greek Life at NC overall carries a conservative view, which would mean extending a bid to a homosexual PNM is out of the question. I'm not bashing the OP's preferences, I just don't know how a "southern fraternity" at NC would view a homosexual PNM. When I hear someone say "southern fraternity", I think of the Southern Triad (KA, EN, and ATO) and SAE. And based on my experiences, I would say that the Big 4, when it comes to "southern fraternities", would not extend a bid to him.

You do not speak for all southerners, nor do you speak for all SEC greeks. You're embarrassing yourself. I also think you might be surprised to find that the "Big 4" have gay brothers. It's happened. It's even happened in the SEC. Grow up.

Yeah, ok. You got me.

I hope you realize that GLBT individuals exist in all GLOs, "Big 4" or otherwise.

And that I'm not disagreeing with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphatausc (Post 2118382) I actually don't think Sigma Chi would give bids to gay men at an SEC school, so I don't know if we agree or disagree. And Illinois has different political views than your SEC states. I used Texas and SC as examples because they are both states that are predominantly conservative. SC being very conservative. But North Carolina is also a very conservative state, is it not? So, just based on that, I would say the Greek Life at NC overall carries a conservative view, which would mean extending a bid to a homosexual PNM is out of the question. I'm not bashing the OP's preferences, I just don't know how a "southern fraternity" at NC would view a homosexual PNM. When I hear someone say "southern fraternity", I think of the Southern Triad (KA, EN, and ATO) and SAE. And based on my experiences, I would say that the Big 4, when it comes to "southern fraternities", would not extend a bid to him.

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