Ordering high end on the first date. Is it rude or is it just me?
 

What do you think is reasonably acceptable (for spending) on a first date? I posted something about this in the dating and relationships thread, but I wanted to see other folks points of view on this, because I'm thinking it's just me thinking like this. Like I was saying, I'll pay for the first date, but do you think it's rude for a girl to order a lot of high end food/drinks from the menu if the dude is paying for the date? On your first date what did you spend/order? Would you date her again if she ordered high end on you? I'm just trying to see if I'm looking into this too hard.

If you don't want to spend that much money, don't go to a "high end" restaurant. I don't mind paying, but if I'm not trying to spend that much, we'll skip the 5-star Steakhouse and go to Pappadeaux or something.

I think it's inconsiderate of the person not paying (whether it be a female or male) to go nuts with ordering the most expensive items on the menu. I'm married now, but when I was dating, I would usually ask my date what he was ordering, find the price, and then order something around the same price range.

This and you also have to take into consideration the type of person you are asking out as well. I don't think it's rude unless she is purposely ordering the most expensive things on the menu just to break your wallet, which if that's the case you shouldn't ask her out again.

If he takes you to Ruth's Chris, don't order the most expensive steak plus the lobster tail plus dessert.

If he takes you to McDonald's, don't order the large Mushroom Angus Burger meal.

Order at the low or medium end of the price range on a first date. This applies no matter what kind of restaurant you're at.

And girls, learn to drink drinks that aren't pussy drinks that they WAY overcharge for. I think a guy would much rather hang with a girl that drinks whiskey and water than one who orders round upon round of girly girl cocktails that cost twice as much.

When I was dating, if I went on a date to a nice place and we had a drink at the bar while waiting for the table, I would usually pick that one up. My mother was appalled when I told her this. That said, this would always be date 2 or more. I would never commit to a full meal on a first date.

If she orders the most expensive thing on the menu on the first date, I think you should be grateful!!

At least you know early on that she is a diva that will expect to be be wined & dined and probably end up being way high maintenance. In the end, it will be a cheap lesson!

This.

And definitely this!

If you're going to order 'expensive' off the drinks list, make it wine (assuming you know what you're talking about, and didn't just order by price) - not close.

At the same time, getting a beer is one thing, and an Icehouse completely another (same with something like well scotch with a sidecar) - shoot for that middle ground, neither high nor lowbrow.

I don't know. I think there is a big difference between ordering the best steak or the best lobster, and ordering the surf n' turf that includes both. If there is an entree that is notably higher than everything else, at least that one should be avoided.

I think I read a Miss Manners article that says that guests should almost always order from the middle price range of the menu...ordering expensive is rude and ordering cheap could be construed as you thinking whether the paying person cannot afford more. Taking your cue from what the host orders is also appropriate...if they order steak, lobster, and Dom Perignon then ordering from the top of the menu is fair game.

If you can't afford Ruth Chris, don't go to Ruth Chris.

If you tell your date, "don't worry, help yourself" (whether you really mean it or are just saying it--I always tell people NOT to say things just to be saying it) don't get mad if your date doesn't worry and helps herself/himself.

It really depends on a few factors. The smart thing is to go with the flow and order in the range that the person who is paying for it is ordering--unless the person tells you differently.

When my significant other and I were "just dating" we went to a range of types of restaurants in terms of costs. He usually "helped himself" and was insulted if I did not "help myself." He considered it disrespectful and a challenge to his sincerity (i.e., second guessing what he means by "help yourself"), aspects of his masculinity, and even his salary range for me to buy something cheaper when what I really wanted was the more expensive item.

When the "just dating" became a significant other relationship, being cost effective was more valued and appreciated. :p

I agree

I TOTALLY agree. Learning to read the signs early can save you a lot of heartache and money.

Excellent point, thetalady!

Personally, (and it has been quite some time since I've been on a first date), I would tend to stay in the middle of the menu, pricewise. For example, if they had a stirfry with chicken, beef or shrimp I would order the chicken because it doesn't cost as much as the shrimp. I might order a glass of wine but not the ultra jumbo frozen margarita and I would probably skip dessert. I just wouldn't want my date to think the only reason I was going out with him was to score a free meal (unless, of course, I was only going out with him to score a free meal).

I agree with those who said that if you're worried a date might order the most expensive things on the menu, don't take them to a place that's high end and super expensive. Take them to a restaurant where you'll feel comfortable regardless of what is ordered.

When my hubby & I first started dating, I always ordered in the mid-range of prices and rarely ordered appetizers mainly because I don't care for them. I also stuck to soft drinks and water simply because I'm not a big drinker anyway. When our relationship became serious, we both agreed to dine at more cost effective restaurants and would splurge at high end places for special events like birthdays, anniversary of dating, job promotions, graduation etc.

One thing I discovered from a friend is that he likes to do lunch dates at nice places first with women because lunch is definitely cheapter (most of the time) than dinner and if it's not going to well, you have the option of using the "gotta get back to work" excuse. If it goes well, he invites them out to dinner at a nice place.

I already replied to what you posted in D&R. That's a lot. I'm sure she'll be calling you when she's hungry, though lol. (I'm kidding)

I dunno, it was different for me. My first "date" (if that's what you want to call it) with Mr. was weird, I guess. We never really "dated" per se. We were actually dating other people, while we were hanging out as good friends and complaining to each other about our dates lol. We didn't start "dating, dating"...until we started courting. Weird, I know. We date each other now, and money is never really an issue.

I guess for me, I never was really impressed with my previous dates because they thought wining and dining me would impress me. I was always happy going to a bagel or coffee shop on a first date, talking, and then maybe going to the movies or something. I dunno, I always would offer to pay for the movie if they paid for dinner, but they usually insisted on paying. I've always ordered what I wanted, and it never was expensive. I mean, I don't drink, so I don't think the bill was incredibly high or anything. I mean, I never looked at it to know, but I had an idea. I know it wasn't "$100.00 bucks" for the entire date, though.

Why don't you just take her to have coffee or something and see where the conversation goes? I'm not sure if you have a cider mill in your area, but those are always fun, and they don't cost a ton of money. It's just that I don't think you have to spend a lot of money to get to know someone. I mean, it's just a date, right?

On first dates I agree with everyone else that posted. I try to stay low to mid range price wise, but I also tend to like to eat cheaper thing (i.e. I don't really like shrimp or shellfish, therefore I wouldn't ever order it). I do try to order something that I really want though, so it doesn't seem like I'm trying to imply that he is poor (although all the guys I've dated have been college students, so they were poor haha).

I have only ordered alcohol at dinner when I was with my ex, so we were very candid about how much money we had/knew who was paying beforehand, but if I were to order some on a date I'd probably stick with a domestic beer or whatever was on special. I also never drink more than 1-2. So. I also tend to prefer cheaper restaurants so overall I'm pretty much a cheap date. I feel bad having people pay for me, ever. I also follow these rules when I'm out with family or friends who are paying. I only really ever order something expensive if I'm footing the bill. Personal preference, I guess I'll get over it if/when I get married. :D

"Girly girl cocktails" often have more alcohol than straight up.
Just sayin.';)

I believe both of these statements are true. I will order in the low-medium price range, not because I don't think my date could afford it but because I'm not into taking advantage. In any case, I don't think I've ever ordered alcoholic drinks on a date (for several reasons).

I have a reverse story of this. My cousin and her hubby are VERY well off. They invited my hubby & I to dinner at a very pricey restaurant in L.A. Her hubby was surprised when we ordered mid-range meals and no alcohol. He couldn't believe that neither of us were interested in the pricey seafood and steak options (I wanted pasta & my hubby wanted chicken) and I hardly drink and my hubby never drinks.
My cousin later told me it's b/c he's used to people ordering drinks like crazy and the most expensive items when it's on their tab b/c they're well off. Lol!

I am a certified mixologist. No they don't. :)

And this isn't about "if you can't afford a place, don't take a date there." It's about not looking like a greedy gold digger on the first date. I never doubt that the guy can afford a place if he takes me there - it's about his perception of me. It's in the same category as not getting shitfaced on the first date, IMO.

This is subjective. It depends on the people involved and the context. What you consider looking like a greedy gold digger is interpreted another way by someone else. That is why adults learn to gauge their environments rather than being stuck with hardfast rules that do not always apply.

Just like there are people who have sex on the first date. Some of those people end up one night stands and some of them end up married for 100 years. Whatever works for them. What they eat doesn't make me shit, and vice versa.

Well then, I'll put it this way. I PERSONALLY would not feel comfy, even if I was out w/ Donald Trump, ordering the most expensive thing on the menu on the first date. Maybe there are some men out there who are fine with it (just as there are some one nighters that turn into lifetimes) but I honestly think it's better to be safe than sorry.

Yes, this is all personally. :) And people have different ideas of what it means to be safe than sorry when it comes to such things.

For those who truly care about this type of thing, there are ways to politely set the tone for how much you expect to spend on a date. If the OP has yet to figure that out, now is a good time. LOL.

Exactly.

I'm the same way.. I'm not "into" food like other people are, and I actually spend most of my time sitting at bars if I go out to eat with friends, parents, or guys I've been dating for a while. My dates don't spend a lot on me because a) I prefer salad/chicken/pasta to steak/shrimp/lobster any day, and b) I don't eat that much in one sitting. And the way entrees are today, I usually end up ordering soup and a salad, or an appetizer with a side dish.

And while I LOVE my Jack and Cokes, if I'm out at a nice dinner, I'll order the house Chardonnay.. Not because it's cheap, but because I tend to love cheap wine :D

However... If you see lobster on the menu, and that's what you want, I say order it! And if a guy thinks you're snobby and high maintenance because of that, F him. He's judgmental and he's missing out. If he didn't want you to order the lobster, he shouldn't have taken you to a place that offers it.

I will say, my one food addiction is swordfish. I can rarely even find it on a menu anymore, even at places where they used to serve it. So if I see it on a menu, I don't care.. I'm ordering it. You've been warned, guys :)

But personally, on a date, I'd be perfectly happy just going out and eating a bunch of caramels

Agreed.

Much the same way, if a guy asks me for a suggestion on where to go (and I think that's a fair question if he is coming up to my 'hood), I usually try to suggest two or three restaurants in different price ranges beforehand, so he can go online, see what they are, and pick which one makes him comfortable.

Now, if he picks the inexpensive Thai place, and then gets bent out of shape because I ordered the $12 duck entree when most of the other entrees are $10, we're gonna have problems.

(of course, this is all in past tense. sigh. dating.)

yes, its rude. you should be very mindful of what you are ordering when you are on a date and the other person is paying. One time i went out and got what i wanted but not everything haha (cause i was on a date) the next day a friend and i went to lunch to the same place (each paying for ourselves obviously) and i went nuts lol

LOL at 'what they eat doesn't make me shit'. If that isn't the truth, then I don't know what is.

I read everybody elses posts, and I agreed. I think I'm going to ask her out again, but on a less expensive outing, that way I can see where her mind is. I did tell her to order whatever it is she wants off the menu, but I was just now reading something Dr. Phil said in her post about being straight up with folks. I was straight up with her, but at the same time I wasn't going to tell her 'order anything you want, but be selective with what you order. Don't order too many drinks or expensive items'. Telling her to order what she wanted, I would think that she would have some manners and be kind of moderate about it.

I agree with this as well, although I'll add that when I was dating, I never took someone out on a first date where I couldn't afford something on the menu (assuming the girl didn't order 10 courses).

This is what my parents taught me as well. It's not a just a first-date thing, it's a guest thing. If your friend's parents or your roommate's parents or prospective employers take you out for a meal, you order from the middle price range, unless it's very clear from the hosts' cues or from context (for you, Dr. Phil) that it's okay to go more expensive.

Lesson learned: Stop talking just to talk and make yourself clear. :) Manners and moderate are subjective and cultural.

[I have been at gatherings where ordering less expensive or smaller amounts of food was interpreted as the person not having a good time and being ready to leave.]

If this is such an issue for you, find a way to respectfully convey (or politely say) "order whichever entree (singular), 2 drinks, and dessert (singular) that you want." If the "whichever entree" part scares you because some entrees are expensive, take your date to a less expensive restaurant. Look, adults need to stop acting so cautious and scary over things that may be silly in the longrun. You have more exciting things to spend your brain and time on than contemplating and reflecting on a dinner date. Get it said, get it done, and move on to more exciting things.

A smart person who has an issue with what their date is ordering would find a way to respectfully take the lead. Afterall, I would never want to date a man who could not respectfully tell me when to STOP ORDERING if he is the one paying for it. Even a "having to wash the dishes to pay for this" joke can work depending on the context.

Love the Good Will Hunting reference. And I agree with it. Much of what we do while dating is arbitrary, we are just trying to get to know the person better and discern their character, so in fact it doesn't completely matter what we actually do.

Here's a slight twist on the initial question:
Whenever we go out to eat with my inlaws, they always insist on picking up the tab. When I asked my MIL about that once, she said it was important to them that they always pay when taking "the kids" (us) out to eat and that we could make it up to them when they're old and broke. (Note, that ain't gonna happen if I have any say about it).

However, they make it clear when we're ordering that they don't want us to order appetizers or dessert. Don't know the reasoning behind the appetizers but no dessert is because she always has thawed Christmas cookies back at the house so we are supposed to eat them instead (blech).

Now, I know they're well off so it's not a question about them not being able to afford appetizers or dessert. And, hey, sometimes I really want the fried calamari or the artichoke dip. Would it be rude to say, "Well, I want an appetizer so I'll pay for it." or should I just keep my mouth shut?

Perhaps not rude but just unnecessary. It may even hurt their feelings. You can pay for your own calamari or artichoke dip anyday.

Let them have that evening to pay for you with the expectation of no appetizers and no desserts. :)

Yeah, I always figured I could just pay for my own appetizer but wasn't sure if that'd be rude or not. You're right; I can just not get my calamari some other time.

No, this is exactly where you went wrong. "Order whatever you want" - that translates as "hmmm, this dude is trying to be Mr. Big Spender and impress me. Ok baby, it's on. 42 lobsters please!!"

When you take a girl to a restaurant...it's obvious that she'll order whatever she wants. The days of a man choosing the meal with zero input from the woman are long gone. If you feel the need to state the obvious, it will get twisted.

What precipitated you saying "order whatever you want?" Had she asked your opinion on any of the menu items? Had she asked if you'd dined there before?

Her menu selection is one of the many unstated markers that you pay attention to, particuarly on a first date. People will usually, through their actions, show you far more than they will tell you.

Even saying "order whatever you want" should not have been taken as an invite for her to go buckwild on the menu.

She probably didn't go buckwild on the menu. If I knew what she ordered and the total cost, I'd probably so "oh, is that all?"

Speaking of people showing you more than they tell you, someone who says "whatever you want" (not even saying "whatever you want within reason") but doesn't mean "whatever you want," and then doesn't stop you when you need to be stopped, is showing you that they might be a pushover.

I used to do the same thing when I dated, looooooong, loooooong ago and i made sure that our children understood that they should ask their host "what looks good to him/her" if someone was treating them to a meal out. As for those who don't do this, I think the best suggestion was the majority consensus, that a host take a guest to a place well within the host's price range.

Dr. Phil, what great advice to KillarnyRose. Sometimes I know that I don't stop to think that the person treating me is getting pleasure from doing so, and I should just "go with the flow." Thanks for the reminder!