Herman Cain's 9-9-9 Plan Seizes Debate Spotlight
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44859731...012/?gt1=43001


****

Based on what I have read about 9-9-9, I do not know what to think quite yet. Cain has been getting on my nerves but politicians and politics get on my nerves.

What say you, GCers?

As much as i'd love to only have to pay 9% Fed tax the idea of a Federal sales tax on top of already in place state sales tax turns me off to Cain's plan. In TX we would have a 17.25% sales tax with the 9-9-9 plan. That'll really spur consumer spending :rolleyes:

To make sure I understand, the 9% Federal sales tax would be added to the 8% state sales tax in TX?

Okay, I need to map this out:

* 9% tax on personal income
* 9% tax on business income
* 9% tax on sales

What are the pros and cons of this including the con of the 17.25% TX sales tax? Cain is increasing in popularity and I hope his popularity is based on an understanding of his proposed plan.


<----visual learner :)

It's regressive. The poorest people end up paying the largest share of their income in taxes.

In addition, I'd love to ask one simply question, "How did you decide on 9?" What research went into deciding that 9 was better than 10 for the sales tax or for that matter better than 8.5.

Several sites that think or report that this plan is just NG: From just tonight:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...ysis-deficits/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...068,b=facebook

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...068,b=facebook

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-9-9-tax-plan/

The above I just happened to know where to find without spending much time-sure that there are more (and there will be more).

The 9% would be added on top of whatever local sales taxes that are already in place.

LOL.

I like the idea of getting rid of the current tax structure and just going with a 12% flat tax on personal income, a 20-25% Corporate tax and NO federal sales or VAT tax. I'm calling it the 12-20-NO plan.

I would say that Cain needs a course on taxes and tax transfers but he already knows what he's proposing. Instead, he needs to have lunch with Warren Buffet (if they are not already lunch buddies).

****

Presently, federal personal income tax is progressive and sales tax is regressive. The pretax and post-tax income distributions are largely indistinguishable in that the top 1%-5% still claim most of the personal income and wealth. Proposed tax plans need to be grounded in something really strong for tax payers and decision makers to want to change things on either side.

Add this to my list of stories about Cain's 999 plan:
What’s Not To Like? Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan Hits Poor, Blows Up Deficit, Threatens Entitlements
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...up-deficit.php

Wait a minute here.... AFAIK the Medicaid tax and the SS tax would still be in place. I've never heard him talking about killing those taxes as part of the 9-9-9 plan.

This was just posted as a part of an over all review of tonight's GOP presidential debate by Mother Jones:
Herman Cain's 9/9/9 Plan Raises Taxes on the Poor:
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/10/...ses-taxes-poor

The whole story: GOP Debate: Perry Continues to Falter
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...debate-roundup

PiKA2001: If you have not yet done so, read the other links I gave-You may find the answer you are looking for in them.

Hello SOM, what are you thoughts on 9-9-9?

Thanks for introducing me to MotherJones:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...al-health-care

Found the story I was thinking of by way of this report from NY Times on tonights debate: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...imes&seid=auto

Story has link to:
Inside the Cain Tax Plan

By BRUCE BARTLETT-held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...cain-tax-plan/

Nope, not in there. Until I hear or read a direct quote from Herman Cain saying that he plans to kill SS and Medicaid tax deductions as part of his 9-9-9 plan I won't believe it. :)

You are smart. (You knew that already.)

SOM, thank you for the informative links. One thing that I ask is that in addition to posting links in threads I would love to read your thoughts on these topics. :)

Reverend Al Sharpton on the Wendy Williams Show today:

(Using the Bible story of Cain and Abel)

"His name is Cain, the question is he Abel."

On one end, interesting play on words. On another end, WOMP WOMP...BOOOOOO.... I guess I would expect nothing different from a reverend.

Dr. Phil: Glad that you enjoy your new find ;>)
As for 9-9-9...Well I think Mr. Bruce Bartlett is a far smarter and wiser man than I on this topic. And after reading his take, and others, I think 999 is just not the right plan. Yes we need to make some corrections and fixes to the Tax Codes and Laws. Just not this way.

Cornel West: "“I think he (Herman Cain) needs to get off the symbolic crack pipe and acknowledge that the evidence is overwhelming."

http://newsone.com/nation/newsonesta...ain-crackpipe/

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/1...ic-crack-pipe/

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/video-co...get-crack-pipe

*******

(I won't comment on the bromance between Tavis Smiley and Cornel West. West went after Obama over Smiley. LOL.)

This doesn't specifically pertain to 9-9-9 but provides a context for some of responses to Cain's proposal. Some people view him as ignorant of social class differences; and social class is highly correlated with race and ethnicity to the point where it is synonymous for many social phenomena. As always, many people are a lot less tolerant of an African American man who they consider a staunch Conservative.

I think it is interesting to see this issue from different perspectives.

Found the following about Mr. Cain among todays fact-check stories:
Herman Cain's Adviser for 9-9-9 Plan is Not an Economist
Herman Cain says his much-touted 9-9-9 plan is the product of extensive testing and thinking, but the only man he cited as involved with its research — Rich Lowrie of Cleveland, Ohio — is not a trained economist.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/...lan-not-econom

What Herman Cain Might Not Know About The ‘Chilean Model’
In case you missed Tuesday’s GOP debate, here’s a quick summary: Herman Cain likes talking about his ‘999’ Plan.

He’s also been fond of touting the “Chilean Model” for privatizing Social Security — pitching it as a series of free-market, private savings accounts. But in fact, whether he and his conservative fans realize it or not, Cain is in fact embracing the kind of policy prescription that they have been railing against on certain other subjects throughout this whole campaign.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...lean-model.php

Yeaaahhhhh ... a 9% sales tax is regressive as hell, and will decimate lower classes (which is a neat play on words considering the literal definition of "decimate" and basically increasing costs of goods by ~10% - APPRECIATE THAT).

The 9/9/9 plan favors the rich to an unprecedented degree, and crushes the ability of the middle class to help "spend our way out" of recession. There's a good chance it increases reliance on social programs to offset the regressive nature of the sales tax alone, too - Cain's way off.

The idea's cute, but it doesn't seem workable in the slightest.

LOL. Cute and sociopoliticoeconomics sound gross together.

My state's sales tax is already 10%. He ain't gonna win Washington state's hearts with a 19% sales tax.

Herman Cain consultant: 9-9-9 wouldn't be accepted

Herman Cain expressed confidence at Tuesday’s debate that his much-touted “9-9-9” plan to revamp the tax code would pass Congress, but the paid campaign consultant who scored the plan for Cain said the idea was more of a theory than a politically viable solution — and not the route he would suggest himself.
“You’re trying to go to a system that taxes income once and only once and quits double-taxing savings,” Gary Robbins told POLITICO on Wednesday. “That’s something that can really juice the economy, it’s probably worth 15 percent in growth. … The problem with the big-bang changes like that, the flat tax or the fair tax, is that they are so alien to the current system that it would be a great big shock.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65762.html#ixzz1ac95x6nr

Herman Cain’s 999 plan: a misleading pitch
The Facts
The “9-9-9” label is actually a bit of misnomer. Cain would toss out much of the current federal tax code and replace it, eventually and only temporarily, with three taxes — a 9 percent income tax, a 9 percent corporate tax and a 9 percent federal sales tax. On paper, the first two look like cuts, because payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare (now nearly 15 percent, including corporate contributions) would be repealed. The sales tax would be new, on top of existing state sales taxes.

But note that we said the “9-9-9” would happen eventually — and then only temporarily. That’s because it is only the second step of a planned three-step process. The first step would cut individual and corporate tax rates to a top 25 percent rate (down from a current high of 35 percent). Then the final step would replace all of the taxes — even the 9s — with a national sales tax, known by proponents as a “Fair Tax.”

(As denizens of Washington, we find this three-step process to be highly dubious. It takes years, even decades, to fundamentally overhaul the tax code. Herman Cain is going to do this three times in his presidency? But we digress.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...g.html?hpid=z2

Whoever coined a national sales tax the "Fair Tax" deserves some sort of raise or medal, because anybody with a tenth of a brain or any sort of knowledge of economics knows that it's the most unfair form of tax possible.

Herman Cain defends 9-9-9:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44921197...decision_2012/

LOL.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...arette/247298/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9deLGjrf-A

*Please* have him win the republican nomination. He makes Jesse Jackson look like a centrist.

OMG, I love it. If Cain keeps up with these ads I may have to rethink my opinion of him.

No.Nyet.Nein.Non.