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-   -   UT frat recruited with live sex shows, lawsuit claims (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=122157)

aggieadpi_01 09-27-2011 04:55 PM

UT frat recruited with live sex shows, lawsuit claims
 
I just read this article in The Houston Chronicle.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/UT...it-2191349.php

AlphaFrog 09-28-2011 09:22 AM

I understand the lawsuit including hazing and return of assets, but what does hiring strippers have to do with it? It may be a questionable activity, but it's not illegal to hire a stripper, unless there was a spesific clause about what chapter funds can be used for which wasn't mentioned in the article. Even so, you may be hard pressed to prove that the money came from chapter funds and not some member's pocket.


PS...why is striptease in my autocorrect but stripper is not...weird.

SOM 09-28-2011 12:29 PM

Another take on events:
Fraternity Slams the Breaks on Rogue Chapter

CN) - A Texas fraternity chapter went "rogue" after its national order suspended it for hazing and sponsoring "live sex acts" in the frat house, but the students have no claim to certain property, including member dues, furniture and the members' residence, the order claims in county court.
The Kappa Alpha Order traces its roots back to 1865 in Lexington, Va. It notes that it is a "religious in feeling" group, of the Judeo Christian ethic, "pledged to the preservation of the highest ideals of gentlemanly conduct among its members."
But this summer, the order says it had to impose a one-year suspension of the Omicron chapter, which was chartered at the University of Texas at Austin in 1883.
An investigation showed that the frat had hosted "professional exotic dancers performing live sex acts for recruitment purposes," hazed members and let senior female members to haze new inductees of an unauthorized "little sister" group, according to the complaint filed the District Court of Travis County, Texas.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/09/27/40098.htm

Update from local paper:
"The national Kappa Alpha fraternity organization filed a lawsuit against its former UT chapter, claiming the group owes the national organization hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets.
The lawsuit alleges the UT group hired exotic dancers that performed live sexual acts for recruitment purposes and hazed pledge members. When the national organization suspended the UT chapter for the incident in June, the UT chapter disassociated and formed Texas Omicron, according to the lawsuit.
The lawsuit demands the return of delinquent dues, real estate at 2515 Leon St., kitchen appliances, artwork and other property the national chapter alleges belongs to the Kappa Alpha organization."...
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/news/2011/09/28/local-kappa-alpha-sued-national-chapter-house-possessions

ElieM 09-28-2011 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 2095976)
I understand the lawsuit including hazing and return of assets, but what does hiring strippers have to do with it? It may be a questionable activity, but it's not illegal to hire a stripper, unless there was a spesific clause about what chapter funds can be used for which wasn't mentioned in the article. Even so, you may be hard pressed to prove that the money came from chapter funds and not some member's pocket.

Maybe a violation of their stated organizational aim of striving to offer reverence to both God and women, as described in the motto, "Dieu et les Dames"

AlphaFrog 09-28-2011 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElieM (Post 2096118)
Maybe a violation of their stated organizational aim of striving to offer reverence to both God and women, as described in the motto, "Dieu et les Dames"

Still not a legal issue. It's not like ASA could sue me for failing to aspire, seek, or attain.

ElieM 09-28-2011 09:25 PM

Is there something about bringing the organization into disrepute?

KDCat 09-29-2011 02:41 PM

There's two issues: 1) Did the national have grounds to suspend the chapter? and 2) Once the chapter was suspended, who gets control of the assets?

It's not that hiring a stripper is illegal, it's that the national is saying that hiring a stripper was grounds for suspending the chapter. Things can be perfectly legal and still be a breach of their operating guidelines.

Lady Pi 09-29-2011 10:22 PM

From other things that I've read, the "shows" were much more than stripteases. They were full on sex shows involving prostitutes and drugs.

33girl 09-29-2011 11:05 PM

I guess I don't understand why this would be a good rush event. Do they measure each other's boners to decide who gets bids or what?

Boys are weird. :confused:

PeppyGPhiB 09-30-2011 07:22 PM

I used to date an alumnus of this chapter, and I'll just say that this doesn't really surprise me. He was the sort to portray himself in one way in public, but do a whole 'nother kinda thing in private. To the Nth degree.

TSteven 10-04-2011 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2096359)
I guess I don't understand why this would be a good rush event. Do they measure each other's boners to decide who gets bids or what?

Boys are weird. :confused:

I believe that falls under membership selection and would be private. :p

ForeverRoses 10-05-2011 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2096359)
I guess I don't understand why this would be a good rush event. Do they measure each other's boners to decide who gets bids or what?

Boys are weird. :confused:

you just made me snort Dr. Pepper all over my keyboard. Thanks!

carnation 10-05-2011 02:26 PM

Worse yet, my 11-year-old glanced over my should and asked what a boner is. :(

DubaiSis 10-05-2011 02:47 PM

"Instead of accepting the suspension, the local fraternity cut ties with the national group and continues to recruit members and function as a fraternity at the former chapter house at 2515 Leon Street, the lawsuit said.
In its lawsuit the national administrative office of Kappa Alpha Order has demanded that the local group, which calls itself Texas Omicron, turn over revenue, dues and accounts collected prior to July 22 and all furnishings, artwork and equipment in the fraternity house.
The suit claims that the property should be held in trust for use by a future chapter of the Kappa Alpha Order."

If these guys are so arrogant and stupid that they think they can keep the house after national pulls the plug, these guys really need to be spending more time in class and less time with hookers and blow. I am running through a series of why wouldn't they have... but these guys are clearly above the law and common decency. Even if it was perfectly legal strippers and it wasn't a rush party, it would still be reason for a fraternity with the reputation of KA to go ballistic. Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house just because you're the current tenants. DUH.

AlphaFrog 10-05-2011 02:51 PM

http://www.ceciliomusic.com/catalog/...escription.jpg
Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2097615)
Worse yet, my 11-year-old glanced over my should and asked what a boner is. :(


carnation 10-05-2011 02:56 PM

Good, I'll tell him that.

His teenaged sisters are still laughing hysterically.

LaneSig 10-05-2011 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2097626)
Good, I'll tell him that.

His teenaged sisters are still laughing hysterically.

Does Mr. Carnation need to have that special "father-son talk"?

carnation 10-05-2011 03:29 PM

I told him that now was the perfect time since they're both home on break but he conveniently had to go pick up a drivers' test manual for one of the teens.:mad: The 15-year-old son said, "I'LL tell him!" um, no.

So tonight I'm going to lock Dad and The Baby Boy in some room until it gets explained because I've told the girls sooo much but sorry, Dad's handling this one.

naraht 10-05-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2096359)
I guess I don't understand why this would be a good rush event. Do they measure each other's boners to decide who gets bids or what?

Boys are weird. :confused:

Hmm, Determining membership based on size of "endowment"...
On the one hand, I doubt that it would be illegal under either State or Federal discrimination laws and I doubt that it is specifically prohibited by the Kappa Alpha Order bylaws. (unless you think a racial argument could be made.)

On the other hand, I'd look very strangely on any law or Fraternity by-laws that specifically prohibited it.

My guess is that the law would treat this as if the fraternity were discriminating according to Height.

I'm just trying to figure out what other possible reason they could have for having a live sex show during rush. :) :) :) :)

And as for getting into a lawsuit with your National, the only one that I've seen the National lose is the recent Tau Epsilon Phi situation.

33girl 10-05-2011 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis (Post 2097623)
If these guys are so arrogant and stupid that they think they can keep the house after national pulls the plug, these guys really need to be spending more time in class and less time with hookers and blow.

That all depends on how big of a role the alumni chapter/housing corp plays. These things are different with every fraternity, and in some cases, yes, they would be able to stay in their house, even if they lose national and campus recognition.

g41965 10-05-2011 10:14 PM

Texas Omicron
 
The Texas KA Chapter is powerful, old and has a large membership 150 + and 2300 alumni.They own a beautiful house at 2515 Leon, Austin Texas outright. If the alumni support the new group/local I think they can survive.
The University of Texas is a public university and cannot prohibit membership in the new local as this would violate the US and Texas Constitutional Right of free association. Several chapters in the south have disaffiated from their national/international including the SAE's at Duke and the Phi Delt's at U Va. and The University of The South, in an odd way this paralells what happened to greeks in New England in the late 1960's
I tend to think a purely local chapter without oversite is a risk management problem and the chapter will decline, but die outright, probably not.

srmom 10-10-2011 03:28 PM

Quote:

Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house just because you're the current tenants. DUH.
The current tenants aren't getting the house, the house is owned by the UT Austin Alumni Advisory Board, and they are keeping the house. Your statement should read, "Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house that is privately owned just because you used to be affiliated with the organiziation that legally owns it outright."

I've got a son in that chapter, and while I'm not going to go into details -DON'T believe everything you read in the press, There is a "shock and awe" campaign going on by the national order.

Believe me when I tell you that the parents and alumni know everything going on. I've got reams of paperwork sent by the national order, the lawyers and the housing corp for the chapter. Both sides are keeping us all well aware of the goings on and legal proceedings.

Suffice it to say, that of all the families involved currently, throughout this whole mess, they've only lost one member, and they took a pledge class of 40 boys - sans membership with the national order. They are also a registered organization with the University of Texas, who saw no reason for suspension. So, yes, at this point I'd say they are a viable chapter.

The alumni are supporting the move to break with the order, in fact they felt it was the only way for the chapter to survive.

If what they were saying in the press was the whole story, do you think they would have been able to get liability insurance and have the full support of the alumni advisory board and parents?

shirley1929 10-10-2011 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom (Post 2098773)
The current tenants aren't getting the house, the house is owned by the UT Austin Alumni Advisory Board, and they are keeping the house. Your statement should read, "Dudes, you're not getting a 100 year old house that is privately owned just because you used to be affiliated with the organiziation that legally owns it outright."

I've got a son in that chapter, and while I'm not going to go into details -DON'T believe everything you read in the press, There is a "shock and awe" campaign going on by the national order.

Believe me when I tell you that the parents and alumni know everything going on. I've got reams of paperwork sent by the national order, the lawyers and the housing corp for the chapter. Both sides are keeping us all well aware of the goings on and legal proceedings.

Suffice it to say, that of all the families involved currently, throughout this whole mess, they've only lost one member, and they took a pledge class of 40 boys - sans membership with the national order. They are also a registered organization with the University of Texas, who saw no reason for suspension. So, yes, at this point I'd say they are a viable chapter.

The alumni are supporting the move to break with the order, in fact they felt it was the only way for the chapter to survive.

If what they were saying in the press was the whole story, do you think they would have been able to get liability insurance and have the full support of the alumni advisory board and parents?

SrMom - was waiting for you to chime in! I thought I remembered you had a son in that chapter. They were a great group of guys when I was at UT and I
knew that they had tons of oversight from their local alumni base. I also read the original letter about the break-off that explained how the alumni were the ones pushing for the move. I thought that alone spoke volumes about what was coming down from KA Order nationals.

Kevin 10-25-2011 11:05 AM

I'd be interested to see the lawsuit paperwork in this case. If KA Order HQ is making a claim for ownership of the real property of the chapter, I'd like to see the basis for such a claim. Fraternities are typically structured in a purposeful manner to shield the national organization's assets in the event of a major lawsuit. That's done by having independent housing corporations, not comingling chapter and HQ assets, etc.

KSig RC 10-25-2011 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2102224)
I'd be interested to see the lawsuit paperwork in this case. If KA Order HQ is making a claim for ownership of the real property of the chapter, I'd like to see the basis for such a claim. Fraternities are typically structured in a purposeful manner to shield the national organization's assets in the event of a major lawsuit. That's done by having independent housing corporations, not comingling chapter and HQ assets, etc.

Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

Kevin 10-25-2011 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 2102237)
Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

Yeah, I haven't heard of one of those.. Can you do that with an LLC? In my state we've come up with a number of different organization types (some using FOUR LETTERS!) maybe that's what those are? If such a creature exists, I need to form one of those.

naraht 10-25-2011 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 2102237)
Didn't you hear about these new-fangled one-way liability shields? SEE ALSO: "Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane"

Ug. When I saw Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane, my first thought was of Condoms and oil based lubricants. :(

Kevin 10-25-2011 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naraht (Post 2102293)
Ug. When I saw Piercing the Semi-Permeable Membrane, my first thought was of Condoms and oil based lubricants. :(

No, but those implements could serve as interesting metaphors for some corporate structures, so you're on the right track.

Dionysus 10-26-2011 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation (Post 2097615)
Worse yet, my 11-year-old glanced over my should and asked what a boner is. :(

Possibly has already had one...

rdogbob 12-08-2011 09:04 PM

Srmom-

Well if there is another side of the story, Omicron's spokesman hasn't done a very good job of getting the message out. Basically it sounds like they dont feel like the internal judicial process at KA National should have held them to any punishment whatsoever.

I am curious though at this passage from the Austin paper:

"Alden, who said the suspension was two years and not the one reported in the lawsuit, said another reason the group sought to break off from the national group was because the national office ordered all students living in the fraternity house to find other housing. The house would have been foreclosed without the revenue, Alden said."

I understand that significant improvements were made few years ago to the manor, but I thought it was funded through the sale of land in West campus? How could they have lost the house?


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