GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   News & Politics (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)
-   -   I'm Too Pretty To Do Homework!!!!!! (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=121701)

DrPhil 09-01-2011 09:35 AM

I'm Too Pretty To Do Homework!!!!!!
 
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...sJsJvG1rsYkbQV

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2170750.story

JCPenny got slammed for this shirt and they took it off the shelves. GOOD.

ComradesTrue 09-01-2011 09:40 AM

What knucklehead(s) approved that shirt? Did no one along the production route remember the talking Barbie that hated math ("Math is soooo hard" whiney voice), and the ensuing outrage that she caused?

Glad it has been taken off the shelves.

AOII Angel 09-01-2011 09:43 AM

#1 it's an ugly shirt.
#2 what girl would want to admit to her brother being smarter than her?

I can't decide who is worse, the person who designed the shirt or the buyer at JCPenny who approved it!

lovespink88 09-01-2011 09:45 AM

I saw the first half of the shirt and was like "eehhh...." but the "so my brother had to do it for me" really pissed me off.

Optimus Prime 09-01-2011 09:47 AM

Where did the whole mentality of pretending/being dumb= cute even come from?

I'm assuming JC Penny has a corporate PR person, why would they let that happen?

AlphaFrog 09-01-2011 09:54 AM

The article says the shirt was made for ages 7-16 and sold online, which means for the most part, parents have to purchase it. Any parent that would purchase this shirt ought to be trussed and strung up by their toes.

DrPhil 09-01-2011 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime (Post 2087020)
Where did the whole mentality of pretending/being dumb= cute even come from?

Generations ago gender norms shifted many times including women's labor (for the demographics of women who weren't already working); child labor laws; and women's liberation.

There are still girls who are taught that (1) no man is going to want you if you're too opinionated/mouthy/assertive/smart/career-driven; and/or (2) even if you aren't dumb, play dumb so you can get a boyfriend/husband. Also, women are taught to act like they can't do something so that men can do it for them.

TonyB06 09-01-2011 10:03 AM

Maybe it's just me, but I think people are reading waaayy too much into this. It's another stupid t-shirt in the long line of stupid t-shirts in America. Do we really think a discerning parent who bought this gag gift for his daughter REALLY endorses the concept?

Anybody remember "I'm with Stupid" and "My Dad went to California and all I got was this stupid t-shirt" t-shirts?

I'm not short-selling the advertising/messaging that kids are exposed to and at young ages, but given that no 7-year-old is likely to buy the shirt for themselves, I gotta give the parents the "it's the end of the summer and I wanna buy my kid a silly t-shirt" benefit of the doubt.

Sincerely,
a dad of two daughters, both of whom are honor roll students and do math waay better than their numbers-challenged father. ;)

AZTheta 09-01-2011 10:09 AM

If the back of the shirt had a huge "NOT" on it, or something of the sort, then I'd just ignore it.

I'm with AOII Angel - it's an ugly shirt. It really is. UGLY. Just on that alone, it's a Fail.

SydneyK 09-01-2011 10:10 AM

When I first read the shirt, I didn't read it as "Because I'm so pretty, I'm incapable of doing my homework, so my smart brother does it for me", but rather, I interpreted it as "I'm too pretty to be bothered by doing my homework, so my ugly brother does it." While I agree that it's an ugly shirt with a bad message (either way) and no one should buy it, I wonder what message the designer intended (and also what message the JCP-purchaser perceived).

DrPhil 09-01-2011 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB06 (Post 2087026)
Do we really think a discerning parent who bought this gag gift for his daughter REALLY endorses the concept?

Yes.

Just like I don't think adults wear tshirts that they absolutely disagree with. If you wear a shirt that says "I'm with stupid," you are wearing it not only because you find it funny (you could see it on someone else and just laugh) but because it resonates with you enough to wear it. People need to stop bullshitting and acting as though life is way more complex than it is. When adults act naive and stupid we can't be shocked when younger generations learn how to be naive and stupid.

TonyB06 09-01-2011 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 2087029)
When I first read the shirt, I didn't read it as "Because I'm so pretty, I'm incapable of doing my homework, so my smart brother does it for me", but rather, I interpreted it as "I'm too pretty to be bothered by doing my homework, so my ugly brother does it." While I agree that it's an ugly shirt with a bad message (either way) and no one should buy it, I wonder what message the designer intended (and also what message the JCP-purchaser perceived).

message: please help me to transfer as much of your cash from you to me as is possible via your purchase of this ridiculous t-shirt.

nothing more. this america.

SWTXBelle 09-01-2011 10:19 AM

Words have meaning. There's the literal meaning, and there's the meta message. In the case of this t-shirt, both are awful. Yes, JCP was trying to make money. You don't do that by perpetuating negative stereotypes which offend your target market. The shirt is pulled; the market has spoken.

AOII Angel 09-01-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2087024)
Generations ago gender norms shifted many times including women's labor (for the demographics of women who weren't already working); child labor laws; and women's liberation.

There are still girls who are taught that (1) no man is going to want you if you're too opinionated/mouthy/assertive/smart/career-driven; and/or (2) even if you aren't dumb, play dumb so you can get a boyfriend/husband. Also, women are taught to act like they can't do something so that men can do it for them.

So glad I wasn't raised this way...says the mouthy, career driven women who can never let her husband be right. (And her husband likes it!:D)

cheerfulgreek 09-01-2011 11:28 AM

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, it's funny how people thought it was sexist and were offended by it, to the point where JC Penny's had to pull it, but the revealing clothing for teens are still for sale.

I wish more people would complain about the short skirts that teen girls are wearing. What's sad is that their parents are allowing them to wear them. If I had a daughter, I would hope I would have raised her well enough not to wear a t-shirt like that one, not because I think it's sexist, but because it doesn't make any sense. But at the same time, I would have a cow if I had a daughter and she walked in the house wearing revealing clothing. Uh, uh, that's unacceptable. I just think that fashion designers promote clothes that reveal as much skin as possible, while still leaving a few threads on the body. That, to me, is much more of a problem than a t-shirt with silly writing on it.

knight_shadow 09-01-2011 11:44 AM

I'm not a fan of censoring clothing like this. I'm sure that someone out there thinks that shirt is witty, so why should the public have the ability to tell that person s/he can't buy it?

That being said, I think it would've been more effective if it said "...I make my brother do it" as opposed to "...so my brother has to do it for me."

SWTXBelle 09-01-2011 11:52 AM

It's not censorship - the manufacturer wasn't told to stop producing it. The retailer wasn't legally prevented from selling it. They decided that the cost of offending their clientele and the way it reflected on them wasn't worth the offsetting profits to be made from selling the shirt.

I'm personally over all the 'attitude' shirts, anyway.

MysticCat 09-01-2011 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2087048)
I'm personally over all the 'attitude' shirts, anyway.

Generally, I agree. But I couldn't stop laughing over the one I saw at lunch:

http://edge.fatwallet.com/static/i/d...gso0coc40s.jpg

thetaj 09-01-2011 12:57 PM

LOL @
1) Whoever designed it
2) Whoever approved it
3) Whoever didn't want to buy it so much that they made it so no one else could buy it

knight_shadow 09-01-2011 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087072)
LOL @
--
3) Whoever didn't want to buy it so much that they made it so no one else could buy it

@ SWTXBelle

The above is what I was getting at in my post.

DrPhil 09-01-2011 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087072)
3) Whoever didn't want to buy it so much that they made it so no one else could buy it

Yeah imagine a world where there are instances when individual outcomes are surpassed by aggregate outcomes. We should all just chill in our own little huts and let other humans fend for themselves, especially when we're talking about what mainstream retailers are selling.

I can't wait to see those awesome "I'm a baaaaaad bitch" and "ISUCKYODICK" tshirts for K-12. Those who don't like those shirts can just not buy them. Let everyone else do as they choose. And, yes, I consider an "I'm too pretty" shirt to not only be dumb but to be offensive gender jargon.

Societies are awesome.

thetaj 09-01-2011 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2087114)
Yeah imagine a world where there are instances when individual outcomes are surpassed by aggregate outcomes. We should all just chill in our own little huts and let other humans fend for themselves, especially when we're talking about what mainstream retailers are selling.

I can't wait to see those awesome "I'm a baaaaaad bitch" and "ISUCKYODICK" tshirts for K-12. Those who don't like those shirts can just not buy them. Let everyone else do as they choose. And, yes, I consider an "I'm too pretty" shirt to not only be dumb but to be offensive gender jargon.

Societies are awesome.

This single instance just doesn't cross the line for me, and that's where our opinions differ. I'm no philosopher or politician so I'm not worried with the hypothetical situations that could stem from this, but I really wouldn't support an ISUCKYODICK shirt (though Spencer's probably already has these available for K-12). There is a line somewhere, but this one doesn't cross it for me.

Munchkin03 09-01-2011 05:00 PM

Dude, if a girl was "too pretty to do homework," then wouldn't she be able to get guys who weren't her brother to do it for her? Guess she's not that pretty after all!

Optimus Prime 09-01-2011 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087126)
This single instance just doesn't cross the line for me, and that's where our opinions differ. I'm no philosopher or politician so I'm not worried with the hypothetical situations that could stem from this, but I really wouldn't support an ISUCKYODICK shirt (though Spencer's probably already has these available for K-12). There is a line somewhere, but this one doesn't cross it for me.

I worry about this because hypothetical situations always stem from small instances. There is always a starting point and the small, "not so bad" ones always desensitize people for the really bad ones. I have no children to worry about wearing these shirts and I'm not a feminist, but this shirt is degrading to women.

I took a class on how movies and television roles portray gender and race. We don't realize how small messages like these really impact how we view, think about and stereotype people, but they impact us greatly. So even if it may not be an outwardly offensive shirt, it is sending a bad message into the minds of everyone and helping to shape more stereotypes that women have been trying to break.

SWTXBelle 09-01-2011 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Prime (Post 2087130)
I worry about this because hypothetical situations always stem from small instances. There is always a starting point and the small, "not so bad" ones always desensitize people for the really bad ones. I have no children to worry about wearing these shirts and I'm not a feminist, but this shirt is degrading to women.

I took a class on how movies and television roles portray gender and race. We don't realize how small messages like these really impact how we view, think about and stereotype people, but they impact us greatly. So even if it may not be an outwardly offensive shirt, it is sending a bad message into the minds of everyone and helping to shape more stereotypes that women have been trying to break.


I agree - except I have to add, it IS outwardly offensive BECAUSE it buys into a negative stereotype.If you want that shirt, thetaj, go to zazzle or cafe'press and have at it. See? Not censorship.

thetaj 09-01-2011 05:35 PM

I don't want the damn shirt, people.

DrPhil 09-01-2011 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087126)
This single instance just doesn't cross the line for me, and that's where our opinions differ.

It doesn't have to cross the line for you. This is neither about you nor me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087126)
I'm no philosopher or politician so I'm not worried with the hypothetical situations that could stem from this, but

This makes you seem silly. I'm sure you didn't intend to convey that you are not a forward thinking person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087126)
I really wouldn't support an ISUCKYODICK shirt (though Spencer's probably already has these available for K-12). There is a line somewhere, but this one doesn't cross it for me.

LOL @ whoever didn't want to buy the ISUCKYODICK K-12 shirt so much that they made it so no one else could buy it

amIblue? 09-01-2011 05:40 PM

I want a t-shirt that says "I'm too pretty to do housework, so my husband has to do it for me."

I also want it to be true...:D

AlphaFrog 09-01-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087126)
(though Spencer's probably already has these available for K-12).

And herein lies an important distinction...I really think this is as much a "who" as a "what". While I would be sad to see the same Tee at Spencer's, it would be much less a surprise and less of an issue if it were at Spencer's vs. Penny's.

AGDee 09-01-2011 05:43 PM

I want a t-shirt that says "I'm too sexy for my shirt" Oh wait.. nm.

:D

DrPhil 09-01-2011 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 2087144)
I want a t-shirt that says "I'm too sexy for my shirt" Oh wait.. nm.

:D

Go away. LOL.

Now if a child had on that shirt....

SWTXBelle 09-01-2011 05:48 PM

Really great blog - and shirts you can feel good about buying
 
http://blog.pigtailpals.com/2011/08/...to-do-with-it/

cheerfulgreek 09-01-2011 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087135)
I don't want the damn shirt, people.

lol lol
Hilarious!!!

Drolefille 09-01-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2087030)
Yes.

Just like I don't think adults wear tshirts that they absolutely disagree with. If you wear a shirt that says "I'm with stupid," you are wearing it not only because you find it funny (you could see it on someone else and just laugh) but because it resonates with you enough to wear it. People need to stop bullshitting and acting as though life is way more complex than it is. When adults act naive and stupid we can't be shocked when younger generations learn how to be naive and stupid.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2087032)
Words have meaning. There's the literal meaning, and there's the meta message. In the case of this t-shirt, both are awful. Yes, JCP was trying to make money. You don't do that by perpetuating negative stereotypes which offend your target market. The shirt is pulled; the market has spoken.

Agreed.
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek (Post 2087042)
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, it's funny how people thought it was sexist and were offended by it, to the point where JC Penny's had to pull it, but the revealing clothing for teens are still for sale.

It is sexist and perpetuates a sexist message.
Not solving all problems doesn't mean that you don't solve any.



Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2087047)
I'm not a fan of censoring clothing like this. I'm sure that someone out there thinks that shirt is witty, so why should the public have the ability to tell that person s/he can't buy it?

That being said, I think it would've been more effective if it said "...I make my brother do it" as opposed to "...so my brother has to do it for me."

Not censorship. If anything it's the free market at work so to speak. It does make sense to try and influence our world to make it be the way we want it to and we do it all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 2087114)
Yeah imagine a world where there are instances when individual outcomes are surpassed by aggregate outcomes. We should all just chill in our own little huts and let other humans fend for themselves, especially when we're talking about what mainstream retailers are selling.

I can't wait to see those awesome "I'm a baaaaaad bitch" and "ISUCKYODICK" tshirts for K-12. Those who don't like those shirts can just not buy them. Let everyone else do as they choose. And, yes, I consider an "I'm too pretty" shirt to not only be dumb but to be offensive gender jargon.

Societies are awesome.

I heart you.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 2087127)
Dude, if a girl was "too pretty to do homework," then wouldn't she be able to get guys who weren't her brother to do it for her? Guess she's not that pretty after all!

This is not a 'part of the solution' comment, this is totally a 'part of the problem' comment.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087135)
I don't want the damn shirt, people.

Good because you can't have it as it's not for sale and it's ugly anyway so you really shouldn't want it. That and not supporting messages that tell young girls that pretty > smart.

knight_shadow 09-01-2011 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2087184)
Not censorship. If anything it's the free market at work so to speak. It does make sense to try and influence our world to make it be the way we want it to and we do it all the time.

I posted this earlier in the thread:
Quote:

Originally Posted by thetaj (Post 2087072)
LOL @
---
3) Whoever didn't want to buy it so much that they made it so no one else could buy it

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2087082)
@ SWTXBelle

The above is what I was getting at in my post.

Censorship was the wrong word. I just shift in my seat with the WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN mentality when it's so easy to not buy the item. I think Ed Hardy shirts look like shit, but I won't petition to have them removed from a store.

33girl 09-01-2011 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2087184)
This is not a 'part of the solution' comment, this is totally a 'part of the problem' comment.

If your brother's doing stuff for you because you're pretty, that's a whole 'nother problem right there. Maybe this shirt is part of the VC Andrews collection.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C5kL06CeQC...+the+attic.jpg

Drolefille 09-01-2011 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 2087185)
I posted this earlier in the thread:


Censorship was the wrong word. I just shift in my seat with the WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN mentality when it's so easy to not buy the item. I think Ed Hardy shirts look like shit, but I won't petition to have them removed from a store.

We influence how our society is at all times. This isn't about keeping porn away from children or keeping them from learning about sex education in schools or protecting them from things that they don't need protecting from. This is kind of exactly what young girls need protection from. This message tells them pretty > smart.

All that said, JCPenny is the one who made it available and the one who took it off their shelves so blame them not the people who complained about it. Because the idea that we should just shut up and not complain is another message we should protect young girls from. There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.

Drolefille 09-01-2011 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2087186)
If your brother's doing stuff for you because you're pretty, that's a whole 'nother problem right there. Maybe this shirt is part of the VC Andrews collection.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C5kL06CeQC...+the+attic.jpg

I refuse to finish reading those books, I. just. no.

The wording reads more to me like brother's made to or brother has to because otherwise she fails. But yeah that'd be creeptastic.

SWTXBelle 09-01-2011 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2087187)
There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.


As an aside - because this drives me crazy - Disney does not sponsor Gay Days - various and sundry QUILTBAG groups organize it and go to the parks, just like any other group. It drives me crazy when Christians don't do their homework and boycott Disney because an outside group goes to the parks. I guess some might argue that Disney should somehow use gaydar to refuse admittance to those there for Gay Days, but those people are what I like to call stupid.

knight_shadow 09-01-2011 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2087187)
We influence how our society is at all times. This isn't about keeping porn away from children or keeping them from learning about sex education in schools or protecting them from things that they don't need protecting from. This is kind of exactly what young girls need protection from. This message tells them pretty > smart.

At the risk of dragging this on...:p

That's really not JCP's job. This is a time where I feel that a parent should step in and say "Wow, Susie, this shirt is stupid. I hope you don't ever feel that pretty > smart." rather than "I WANT A MANAGER. WHO SELLS THINGS LIKE THIS??"

It was obviously meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Should we petition malls to remove Spencers since teen girls have to walk past the store to get to their destinations?

Quote:

All that said, JCPenny is the one who made it available and the one who took it off their shelves so blame them not the people who complained about it.
They took it down because of the complaints. Multiple people (buyers, web designers, managers, etc) saw the item without incident but it didn't become an issue until that petition was started.

Quote:

Because the idea that we should just shut up and not complain is another message we should protect young girls from. There's no reason to support a store selling a message we don't like. Just like when Christians protest Disney (or whatever) for Gay Days. They're well within their rights to do it. And the pro-equality crowd supports Disney (or whatever) for it. So Disney, goes with a) what it thinks is right or more likely b) what will be the most financially beneficial idea.
@ the bold - That's my point. If I don't support that shirt, I won't buy it. If I don't support that store, I don't shop there. knight_shadow is not representative of the masses, so just because it doesn't suit ME doesn't mean that there isn't someone else out there who likes it.

Quote:

JCP did the same thing, and apparently no one was supporting the idea that this shirt was a GOOD message for girls. So guess which way they decided.
I understand why JCP did what they did. My issue, again, was with the petitioners.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:50 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.