Beanies on Pledges?
 

On investigating the location of a new member of Greekchat, I ran across the local Mu Theta at Alfred State and on their recruitment page (http://mutheta.com/recruitment.html) is "During both pledging seasons, you'll probably see Mu Theta pledges around campus or even have class with one. You can tell them apart from non-greeks as well as other pledges by the green and blue beanies they wear."

I thought using beanies on pledges was something that died when the schools stopped requiring freshmen to wear beanies.Other than them being brought back at Wabash (as mentioned on greekchat at http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=81813), has anyone else seen beanies used to designate pledges?

There's even this graphic at the Mu Theta website:

http://mutheta.com/images/ad.jpg

National orgs have pledge or new/associate/probationary member pins, but those are produced on a large scale. Locals often find other ways of identifying pledges. Can't say I've seen beanies since Animal House, but maybe there's a campus tradition at play here.

Meanwhile, they weren't beanies and they didn't replace probationary member pins, but we all had pledge hats back in the day. I still have mine -- it bears the signatures of all the active brothers when I pledged.

IMO, I kinda like that idea.

Yes. I see nothing wrong with it since different GLOs have different ways to distinguish their "prospectives."

Beanies have different meanings. I wear beanies, and they have cultural significance for some groups, so there are campuses where beanies would not be the choice to distinguish "prospectives."

I have never even seen a picture of Chi Omega pledges wearing beanies, but I did buy one on eBay a few years ago. It is white felt with red stitched X and horseshoe.

I thought beanies were used in the 1940s and 1950s? But went out of style/use some time in the 1960s?

side note: those Delta Gamma sailor hats they wear are freaking adorable. Those DGs look like something you want to scoop up and hug when they are wearing those white sailor hats.

One of my ChiO friends in college had a picture posted on the door of her room (on the ChiO floor - we didn't have houses) of herself as an infant, sitting in a stroller, wearing a Chi Omega beanie. Too cute.

Beanies never went out of style. :)

This is, arguably, hazing. THAT'S why it went out of style.

Lest we be reminded that GLOs have different ways to distinguish their prospectives from everyone else. I would never tell other GLOs that requiring prospectives to wear a pin or something else in this context is, arguably, hazing.

And, no, beanies did not go out of style in the non-Greek and Greek worlds.

Well... not sure about the hazing issue, honestly, because we've all trotted down those avenues in other threads.

I just have this to say: I still have my beanie from Brownies. And I even have a picture of my Girl Scout Troop from either 3rd or 4th grade, and believe it or not, the majority of us still talk to each other. Seriously. And I looked dorky in a beanie then, but maybe I should try again?

No.

I havent seen or worn beanies since I left Girl Scouts about 3rd grade or so
(1986-1987).

Beanie = embarrassing attire = hazing
Pledge pin = not embarrassing attire = not hazing

I'm not certain which part you are disagreeing with, that a beanie is embarrassing, or that embarrassing attire is hazing. In any case, it's not an argument I'd like to have with my dean of students.

(NB: I am talking specifically about the felt beanie-type things shown in the pics of Mu Theta.)

My mom wore a beanie during her first year in the 70s. I know that the SUNY system in NY (of which Alfred State is a part) has a long history with Beanies.

No.

I disagree with your assessment of beanies and I also disagree with thinking you can tell someone what hazing is for their GLO.

A completely subjective distinction. Which means, as a practical matter, a completely unenforceable and undefensible distinction. Who decides that beanies = embarrassing attire? What if the wearer isn't embarrassed? What if, on that campus, pledge beanies are considered a cool and fun tradition (see agzg's post)?

As has been said ad nauseum, different organizations and campuses have different definitions of what constitutes hazing. (That leaves aside state laws, which would never cover this.) If one wants to say "in my organization" or "on my campus this would be considered hazing," fine. But I just won't buy a general assertion that having pledges wear beanies is hazing (or arguably hazing).


Is it a sign of just how old I am that the first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was:

http://www.toontracker.com/beanytoon/bandc.gif

Oh, how I wanted a beany-copter so I could fly like Beany Boy.

What is hazing arguably could differ by gender (forcing fraternity pledges to wear blue skirts every monday (hazing) vs. forcing sorority pledges(almost certainly not))

But within a gender, and more specifically within those groups of one gender within a council, I just can't see the rules on what is Hazing to be that different. Under what situations would Kappa Alpha Theta revoke a charter that wouldn't get a Delta Delta Delta chapter at least a *significant* visit from a board member? (just to pick two NPC sororities)

LOL. I heart MysticCat.

I wear different types of beanies year-round including spring and summer beanies. When it gets colder, I will be wearing felt and non-felt beanies for the fall and winter. I hope no one considers them embarassing attire. ;) I can tolerate being forced to wear embarassing attire. God forbid CHOOSING to wear embarassing attire. I wonder how my family and friends who wear beanies for cultural or religious reasons (even if they technically have different names) feel. :eek:

I see what you mean but using words like "forcing" makes it seem stronger than a requirement or criteria. GLOs have different attire requirements and criteria for meetings, conventions, rituals, etc. That is a different tone than "forcing" especially when you're talking about prospective members.

"Forcing" sorority pledges to wear dresses or skirts can be considered hazing if the context warrants such a consideration. One example of this is how not every woman is absolutely thrilled to be "forced" to wear skirts and dresses.


I don't know the intricacies of Kappa Alpha Theta and Delta Delta Delta. More importantly, what Kappa Alpha Theta does or does not do doesn't determine what Delta Delta Delta does or does not do. It is fine if they are operating based on general criteria, school policies, and hazing laws that have been established after years of working through this stuff. It is not fine if people think they can apply personal opinions and their own GLO's likes and dislikes to other GLOs.

The threshold for attire-as-hazing is the wearing of attire that is not normally in good taste -- not attire that is embarrassing.

Maybe. Again, this can vary.

My org defines hazing as

Quote:

"[a]ny activity or situation that creates fear, mental distress, or undue apprehension in a member; harasses or degrades a member; or an activity which injures or threatens to injure a member’s physical or emotional well being; or any other activities which are not consistent with fraternal ritual or are considered a violation of the policies or regulations of a chapter’s educational institution, or state law."

By that definition, I think the essential question would be whether any clothing could be considered "degrading" or could "threaten" the probationary member's "emotional well being." (Indeed, the list of examples includes: "Requiring members to wear degrading or unusual clothing.")

By contrast, the NPC has adopted a statement that defines hazing (in part) as "any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally . . . causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule . . . ." So that policy does indeed seem to have "embarrassment" as a threshhold.

There are many, many different definitions of hazing out there.

Right, because state law and university policies are totally irrelevant, if my GLO says something is okay. Like it or not, there are things that we all agree are hazing.

In the case of beanies, I didn't say it was black-and-white. I said that it was arguably hazing, in a way that pledge pins are not. That is why it fell out of fashion around the same time that universities and/or the legal system started to crack down on hazing.

Yes, that's obviously the context for this discussion.

Keyword: Scavenger hunts

Beanies are not among those things so we are back to square one.

Keyword: Scavenger hunts

Assuming they really fell out of fashion, are you sure that happened at the same time that universities and/or the legal system started to crack down on hazing? Maybe we are looking at different timelines.

I will be absolutely amazed if there is any state law that makes embarrassing someone hazing.

No one has said state law and university policies are irrelevant. What we have said is hazing policies vary widely (as do hazing laws), so what is relevant are the state laws and university and GLO policies that apply to (general) you. The state laws and unuiversity and GLO policies that apply to others may not be like the ones that apply to you at all.

I bet not as many as you think. Like I've mentioned before, under the law of my state, it's not "hazing" unless the "recipient" is actually subjected to physical injury. That leaves out many things that most if not all GLOs would consider hazing.

Can you back up the cause and effect, or is it just speculation? If if that is the reason beanies fell out of fashion, then why did non-Greeks stop wearing them as well?

Maybe not, but the NPC and NPHC statements on hazing both do.

As I said, it's not black and white. I think most orgs look around, though, and think "what is so important about beanies that we'd risk it?"

Ugh Brownies, remember how all the clothing was brown and orange? It wasn't the 1970's when I was in Brownies but it sure felt like it. I know I have my brown jumper and orange snap tie in my basement back home. I even remember the shirts had a pattern with brown and orange GS symbols. Then when I became a junior there was this unfortunate pants and vest combo, or vest with skirt. We had to have white Keds with white socks, and I distinctly remember an emergency trip to Woolworth's on West Portal before we had an event at St. Anne's for a girl in my troop.

I know many schools had rules about what certain classes could wear, and where they could sit or occupy spaces on campus.

There are plenty of things I find embarrassing as well as in poor taste ;) and I see people choosing to wear them. Guess they haze themselves.

Then the matter is settled for the orgs with thos policies. (Maybe, and I'll leave it to someone in an NPHC org to say whether this accurately reflects their policy.)

But the majority of Greek organizations are not affiliated with the NPC and the NPHC.

Were beanies even an issue in most orgs? It always seemed like a very campus specific (and non-Greek specific) thing to me.

To be honest, I would guess that what happened to collegiate beanies can pretty clearly be seen in the first lines of Animal House:

Larry (Pinto): Take off that beanie.
Kent (Flounder): We're meant to wear them to homecoming.
Larry: Don't be a fruit, okay?

College students in many places decided they looked juvenile (or worse) and just stopped wearing them.

You're right it is not black and white which is why this discussion is happening. The same can apply to requirements like pledge pins.

I would not assume that most GLOs looked around and thought anything pertaining to beanies. There may have been no perceived risk as far as most GLOs were concerned. This may all be post hoc ergo propter hoc.

All I have to add is that hats look ridiculous on me and I'm fairly certain a beanie would look doubly so.

If you expressed that to a sorority and they made you wear a hat or a beanie, that would DEFINITELY be hazing. :(

I even knitted a hat and it looks REALLY silly on me. I am missing out on a whole genre of style.

On the plus side, I knitted a hat. So I have skills... kinda.

/got nothing tonight, although I'm curious about what kind of beanies you wear DrPhil, I'm guessing they're not the same as the 'frosh', brownie or propeller beanies I'm picturing in my head. But that exhausts my beanie knowledge.

ETA: I googled beanies and totally own several 'beanies' that I have worn in the winter to keep warm despite their silly look on me.

Aw, I like brown and orange.. Orange is my favorite color! I was actually disappointed when I moved up and had to wear green. Then much later, ironically, I joined AST. Lol. I love green, but orange is definitely still my fav. Unfortunately, there are no NPCs that use the color orange! :)

Now, regarding the topic at hand.. By "embarrassing," I don't think the NPC and NPHC were referring to having to wear a pledge pin.. Or beanie.. Or whatever. I'm sure they were thinking more along the lines of being forced to do something that's most certainly humiliating (I won't even list examples). But hey, it's all subjective, right?

Honestly, I wasn't always comfortable walking through the student union, or across campus to the chapel in my whites for our ritual ceremonies. I was even asked a few times by guys if I was a nursing student.. And of course they laughed as they passed by.. But I'd never accuse the sisters/sorority of hazing me because I HAD to wear that.

Now, if someone told me, "You'll wear those clothes around campus, otherwise we'll beat your ass and force you to drink 'til you pass out," then that's a different story. And if those guys wearing beanies are meeting with similar threats and consequnces, then yes, it's hazing. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of guys who are all wearing the same thing.. Like all of the Thetas on bid day.. Or all of the Tri Deltas at initiation.

I have to say the Class beanies they wore in Mona Lisa Smile were adorable