Minority rushing for UPC sorority?
 

Hi, so I was trying to console my friend who starting freaking out on me. She called me last night freaking out saying that she was at an automatic disadvantage. I was trying to tell her it's ok, but I really didn't know any real facts, so I thought I would come to you guys for some answers. I made an account so I could get some real facts from real alums and ladies about to rush. We're both going to the University of Texas-- a very competitive greek school. She said that because she was a minority she felt wouldn't get a bid. I don't know why she would say that. She's a beautiful person, inside and out (cliché, yes I know), but we both know that she doesn't have connections with the girls in the sororities. She got all her recs and letters of support for the sororities, but she still says she's at an disadvantage. She's all ready for recruitment. After all she's been talking about it for weeks now and giving it her all in order to prepare herself. I wanted to get some input, so I could make her feel better or so I could tell her to do some mental preparation for what's ahead of her. So ladies, could you please help me? Is she at an disadvantage rushing for the "caucasian" sororities? I know that everyone is welcome to join, but in reality is it? And if she has all her recs, but doesn't know any girls in the sororities at UT, what are her chances of getting a bid? Any input will be greatly appreciated. I want to help my best friend out as much as possible, and because I am not rushing, I do not know much. Honest answers are greatly appreciated! :)

P.S. UPC is the school's panhellenic organization. Sorry for the confusion. Oh, and I've heard UT "dirty" rushes. So if she did not get contacted during the summer, is that a bad sign for her?

Honest answer? Well, since I have NO idea what a UPC sorority is, I can't answer that. If you meant NPC, then the answer is no one here can give you an answer. We aren't privy to the membership selection processes of these chapters. However, there are plenty of girls who know no one on campus but get bids. If she has her recs, then tell her to put her best foot forward and have a great time during recruitment.

UT's Panhellenic

www.texaspanhellenic.org/

I'm sorry I was not more clear! I'm just so used to using words my friend uses that I forgot they're UT orientated. Like knight_shadow said, it is UT's panhellenic. Thank you for the advice! I should just tell her to enjoy herself and give it her best, like you said.

Thank you for clarifying! I should have made it more clear!

I can tell you for sure that no decisions have been made yet. She's going to have to put on her big girl pants and go through the process, just like everybody else.

I can appreciate that it's unbelievably stressful and rush has a terrible way of killing an otherwise great girl's self-confidence, but being Asian isn't going to keep her from finding a home. That is NOT saying that she WILL find a home, but that it's not going be the one thing that EVERY sorority is going to be of the same mind about.

Tell her to get some rest, get plenty of fluids, and try to relax. The best thing you can do for her is provide her other things to think about for the next couple weeks.

Excellent advice! I'm so glad I'm hearing encouraging things to tell her!

You know what bothers me?

It seems like I hear the above response a lot more than, say:

"My organization doesn't discriminate on race. Unfortunately, some chapters might."

And some chapters discriminate on the basis of religion, income, etc, etc just like some politicians end up resigning from office because they are unethical though all political organizations (Congress, etc) have ethics rules.

It is sad that people discriminate for any reason. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life.

And my point is that very few NPC members on GC will forcefully state that there are rules on the books forbidding discrimination based on race.

In other words, it seems that stating that membership selection is confidential is more important that stating chapters shouldn't be discriminating in that way.

It is what it is, I just find it disappointing.

I agree with you, Sen. I don't think it's that difficult or inappropriate to say "XYZ prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, etc., and we expect all of our members and chapters to live up to that. That said, we cannot tell you your chances at any particular school or with any particular chapter. Membership selection is confidential, membership decisions can be based on a wide variety of factors, and we are not privy to the considerations of any specific chapter, nor could we say if we were."

And with that, thread closed.

Thank you all for participating. God bless.

:cool:

Yeah, it bothers me, too. BUT I doubt they couch it as "let's cut the minority." I'm sure in their bigoted little hearts they have a million other reasons why PNM minority wouldn't fit without breaking that rule. :rolleyes:

Chapters of my fraternity might do the same regarding orientation or race, too. Luckily, exposure seems to be having a positive affect. We have a white member of our administration who is very well known and active. I think his presence allows chapters who might be on the cusp of racial discrimination to see that there's a better way.

In terms of orientation, that's another can of worms, but things seem to be getting better on that front also.

Things are slowly changing in the NPC world, too. Societal pressure not to allow in minorities at the local level lessons with each generation. We can preach it, but you really have no ultimate contol over membership selection.

Obviously. I think the point, though, is that when someone asks a question like the OP, we owe it to our organizations and Greek life as a whole to do more than state the (very true) fact that membership selection is confidential. We all know that prejudice still lingers, and we all know that anyone can find pretextual reasons for not bidding someone. But if our orgs have non-discrimination policies (and don't they all now?), then let's at least stand up for our orgs and say so.

I agree, but I see where people are coming from when they say that they don't know what a group might do during MS. These PNMs don't necessarily know that many things go into choosing a member and that even sisters in the same org that are not present at MS aren't privy to that info. I guess that makes people hesitant to say everything is hunky dory and let these girls go into recruitment thinking it won't be an issue when it may.

Oh, I agree completely. That's why I worded my suggested response the way I did:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2076444) I don't think it's that difficult or inappropriate to say "XYZ prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, etc., and we expect all of our members and chapters to live up to that. That said, we cannot tell you your chances at any particular school or with any particular chapter. Membership selection is confidential, membership decisions can be based on a wide variety of factors, and we are not privy to the considerations of any specific chapter, nor could we say if we were."

The flip side is that if we simply answer a question like the OP asked with "membership selection is confidential so we can't tell you," it can give the impression that we think discrimination based on something like race is okay -- no one will know anyway because we don't talk about it. No, we certainly can't tell someone who asks a question about potential discrimination whether it will or won't happen. But we can say that our organizations have taken a position on discrimination rather than risking the impression that they haven't.

All that said, in this case the OP does seem to acknowledge the policies and seems to be asking about the on-the-ground realities.

I must have missed that post! We are in total accord, MC.

Cosigning what Sen, MC and AOII Angel has said. I do think sometimes it's just a habit of people who are used to responding that way towards every query:

Will I get a bid if my GPA is X?
Will I get a bid if I'm from the North/South/Midwest/West Coast?
Will I get a bid if my great aunt died and left me a parrot as a pet?

MC or Sen's responses are the ideal though.

My org only allows parrot legacies if they are mother, grandmother or sister, so your parrot would not a be a legacy.

I can neither confirm nor deny any potential parrot-based discrimination. (But they're gross and you'll never get in if you have one. Or are one).

I am perfectly willing to go on record saying Alpha Xi Delta does not discriminate based on race or religion. The only time I ever experienced the issue of race at all is when we DID pledge a black girl, and I don't recall it being discussed in any way shape or form. And same with the Asians and others (I can think of Chinese, Vietnamese and Mexican Americans right off the top of my head...) who were members of my chapter at the same time as me, 25 years ago. I would be willing to bet that the percentage of girls of color who don't get bids at all is right in line with the percentage of white girls who don't. Even at the supercompetitive old-south schools. That of course isn't to say that it doesn't happen EVER, but not enough to get your undies in a bunch.

And I will also go on record saying we DO discriminate against parrots. Just sayin.

OP, has your friend looked at each UPC chapter's website? I saw minority members in photos on several sites.

*hijack*:p*end hijack*

Really? I looked at most of them, and I saw one non-white member, in several photos. If the OP's friend looked at the websites, then that may have been enough to make her worry.

I think that's what really started to worry her. I just feel awful cause there's nothing I can do. I appreciate all the ladies replying to this threat, but I'm still a little uncertain on what's trying to be said. I'm sorry if I insult anyone and I know that potential member selection is confidential, but like MysticCat said, I was actually asking about what goes on in reality? Does being a minority give you a disadvantage? She doesn't have the obvious All American Girl beauty, but she's beautiful in her own way. I'm worried they won't give her a chance because of that :(

i saw two that had asian members & several that had latina members. i think one had an asian member serving as an officer. i'll go back and check again.

go back and look again. i just did, and i stand by my first statement, that six sororities at the university of texas have asian and/or latina members pictured on their websites. look thru officer listings, watch all the slide shows, look thru all the photos. that doesn't mean that the other sororities don't have minority members-just that they are not pictured on the websites.

It varies by chapter because it varies by the people who make the decisions. There are people in ALL of our organizations who want to keep the demographics the way they are. A couple of sprinkles will be seen here and there but the overall demographics will intentionally not change.

Whenever you hear people say "I saw 2 in a photo...I swear I did...," you need to RUN! LOL. Being "spotted" is not only hilarious, it also means nothing. I completely understand the responses in this thread. However, spotting people in photos or knowing chapters where there are a few minorities (note: I get seen all of the time as one of the few minorities in my professional organizations---that makes them feel diverse, yet my experiences in at least one of these organizations has been WOMP WOMP at best) always makes me chuckle.

We already know that none of our organizations officially discriminate on the basis of race and ethnicity. As others have said in this thread, that doesn't erase what happens at some chapters. More importantly, there simply aren't a whole lot of non-whites PNMs in the first place so of course there won't be a whole lot of non-white members. The same goes for NPHC--there aren't a whole lot of nonBlack/nonAfrican Diaspora aspirants so it is no shock that whites and those not of the African Diaspora will only be "spotted" in a few photos here and there.

That isn't automatically discrimination. If people don't want to be members for WHATEVER reasons, they don't want to be members. But, since discrimination is also based on outcome and not intent, the lack thereof can have a discriminatory impact if there is a nonstop vibe that makes non-whites not want to join NPC; non-African Diaspora not want to join NPHC; etc etc etc etc.

At this point, this thread is silly with people spotting Asians in photos and stuff. I recommend "your friend" either try or not try. Enough already.

i can appreciate your feelings, and i have to admit that i felt really silly purposely looking for certain members. if i look at a sorority website, i am looking at all the happy faces, and what that group has accomplished, not for specific faces. but i am willing to feel silly(and maybe appear silly), if it gives the young woman confidence to pursue something she says she wants to.

If it was so easy to gain confidence, that young lady should have been searching websites on her own. And once these young ladies get to campus, they need to ask where are these non-white members around campus. Seeing them around campus (or not) will speak volumes over searching websites for them.

Anywho, her friend needs to either try it or not try it. Find her best fit and don't assume that "the sorority with the most Asian women" is the best fit.

Was she born in [insert Asian country here], or have her parents/grandparents always lived in the US and she was born here?

Sorry to be so politically incorrect, but people do look at the two differently.

How is your question politically incorrect?

Implying there's a difference. Is it politically incorrect to think that's politically incorrect?

33, you're a nut!

Thank you for the tip!

I'd say try it out. I know asian girls that are in UPC sororities at UT. So this is not impossible. good luck and have fun with rush.

Thank you everyone!