Non-liberal hippie gay guy hoping to join a fraternity...
 

I will be attending UNC Chapel Hill next year, and I'm really interested in joining a GOOD fraternity (I've been looking at Delta Kappa Epsilon). The only thing is...I'm gay. Now, I'm not one of those tree-hugging, flamboyant, liberal hippie gay guys who wears scarves and listens to Lady Gaga, as I'm actually a registered Republican, and really know nothing about gay "culture." I've always dressed very conservatively East-Coast, and I really know nothing about trendy fashion or hair. My idea of a good time is summering in Hilton Head or Nantucket, or going to the Carolina Cup and getting completely inebriated. I'm completely opposite of the stereotypical "gay." In fact, I've had many people tell me they didn't know I was gay until I mentioned it, albeit that's not always the case. And I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I have a very respectable GPA and SAT score, I'm going into pre-med, and I have many relatives who were/are in respected fraternities.

Now, how does my gayness hinder my chances of getting into a fraternity? I'm not interested in joining a historically "gay-friendly" fraternity, as that would probably be too liberal for me, and I've never really had much in common with other gay people, so I don't really enjoy hanging out with them (yeah...I'm going to die alone). Is there anything I should know before I rush? I know many fraternities have a reputation for being cool, particularly the ones I'm looking into, and so having a non-closeted gay guy in there might hurt their reputations. But I've also been told that it could actually give me an advantage because they think I could bring around a lot of girls (which is true).

Should I maybe not tell them I'm gay until I'm in? Or if I do, should I make it clear that I would never come on to a straight guy? I know that our generation tends to be much more open-minded about the subject than prior generations, but as I've said before, I fear that it would hurt a frat's reputation to bring in a gay guy...?

So my paragraph and sentence structure is probably horrendous in this post, but I just saw the last Harry Potter, it's four in the morning, and I'm tired...lol. So does anyone have any thoughts or advice for me? I would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks much

What's with the life stories on the Fraternity Rush board lately?

Quite a few people from Carolina post or read here, so with all the information you've given, your question about if and when to tell anything may be a moot point. It's already out there now.

And about looking for a "GOOD fraternity," I'll say it one more time: a good fraternity is the one where you in fit in and feel comfortable, and where the others in the chapters are brothers who accept you for you.

I'm more interested by his need to stress how different he is from "those gays."

People who identify as homosexual are a diverse subpopulation. Stop trying so hard to prove how "atypical gay" you are just because of your fashion and sociopolitical leanings. You are attracted to men, that's enough.

Power minorities feel social-psychological pressures to prove that they aren't so different from the majority; and that they aren't just like the other power minorities. Be conscious of this so that you don't set yourself up for failure and become labeled as "the insecure gay guy who really really really wants to be cool."

Or worse, the -ist against everything that's not you and the majority you want to align yourself with.

Gay registered Republicans make me sad for some reason, and this is from somebody who is about as fiscally conservative as they come (socially, whole other story). I can't imagine being an official member of a party who is actively trying to marginalize you. (I'm independent, for the record).

I agree with DrPhil...stop trying to make a show about how "different" you are. Many, many, many gay men are like that, you just assume they are heterosexual when you see them because of your narrow view. To people that are actively homophobic, it doesn't matter that you are so "different", you are still gay. To people that don't care, they don't care.

As for your actual question, I'm not from UNC Chapel Hill so I can't speak on the culture, but I went to a school in California of all places and I would say about 75% of the chapters would not be open to taking an openly gay member. It's reprehensible, but it is also a reality at many schools. The irony of course is that all these chapters had closeted members.

If you get a bid to a chapter, I'd also say take a really good look at the culture. Can you bring a boyfriend to a formal event, or are they going to expect you to bring a girl instead? Can you invite guys to a party and flirt with them, or are you expected to "hide" that behavior? Can you mention that you find Ryan Reynolds hot without getting looks of disgust? For many chapters, they may take you but then demand (either explicitly or subconsciously) that you hide your sexuality. Be careful of that.

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, at some schools you'll have no problem. Stanford, for example, has gay guys in all of their chapters, including the "Good Ol' Boy" chapters. But that's an entirely different category than a more traditional school with a large Greek life, which can tend to be stuck in the stone age.

I'm not saying that all chapters should vote in every gay guy they see, but they SHOULD be treated like everybody else. That means that they should get voted on based on their personality only, not sexuality. No exceptions. You already have them in your chapter anyway, they're just hiding.

I'm starting to think that maybe these too detailed threads aren't even being written by the people they seem to be written by. Possibly they're being written by someone with a vendetta who is out to torpedo some rushes?
Or maybe the fratties are really bored this summer?

I too am an Independent. Marginalization is coming from all sides. Not just the Republican side, not just the Democrat side, and not just those other sides. Marginalization wouldn't exist and persist if it was mainly about Republicans.

Plus, political parties are also diverse groups and not everyone in a political party agrees. People align themselves based on a larger idea of what works best. As a man who is most likely of the white diaspora, the OP probably finds the Republican party "protects" privileges that buffer (as far as he's concerned) marginalization based on sexual orientation. Afterall, the OP is a self-proclaimed different type of gay guy who isn't easily detected.

I agree.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the OP's MO about this is that if he's a Republican, then it really shows how "different," "better," or "much more moral" he is than those scarf-wearing, Lady GaGa-loving gays who flock to the Democratic Party.. I've seen a number of Black Republicans do the same thing. "See, I'm not like them! I'm moral! I'm a Republican!!!!"

Good point. I agree. Theyeth dotheth protesteth tooth mucheth and are as dumb as people who affiliate with political parties only because "that's what minorities do." You need to know and understand what you are affiliating with based on the info that we laypersons have access to.

Marginalization certainly exists from all sides, but due to our partisan system, politicians tend to align themselves to party lines whether they believe in them or not. The Republican party line about homosexuality is fairly grim, with almost universal support for not allowing gay marriage, as well as plenty of politicians who were against the repeal of DADT. The Democratic party line is infinitely more accepting. Now whether that's genuine or not on the part of each politician is up in the air, of course.

I don't have an issue with gay people voting for a Republican candidate, but something about purposefully saying you are with the party seems to support you are with the party line, which seems to say that you are against allowing yourself to marry or serve in the army. This is especially the case since homosexual issues are such a political hot button right now, and virtually all politicians have a clear stance.

Although I agree, it's likely that the alignment with the Republican party (read: not individual Republican politicians) is a further way of showing "Look how gay we aren't! We're practically like you!" Not that that's good or a positive thing, especially since many eventually realize they are just being used as poster children and token members, and not truly accepted.

Hmm, interesting points but someone being gay and in the republican party shouldn't be surprising or troubling. I think it might be a case of being sick of and kicking back from the stereotype. I can't tell you all how many times I've heard minorities say/write on the radio/internet " No self respecting (fill-in-th-blank) should ever vote Republican." I have an old friend who is a staunch conservative, works for a GOP Senator, and is gay. AFAIK the Log Cabin Republican's (Gay repub group) have had quite the role in getting rid of DADT. No political party is a perfect match and every time you vote you have to pick the lesser of two evils. I actually think if the GOP focuses more on smaller gov and fiscal conservatism and leaves the "morals" at home they would attract a lot more gay voters, but nah...I don't see that happening any time soon.

-Sorry if this post makes no sense, I'm suffering from a really crappy cold and can barely type straight.

I am a member of the Republican party because my parents were, and because my state doesn't allow independents to vote in primary elections.

The "party line" has been shoved into place by a very vocal minority of the party. Many Republicans don't give a shit about gay marriage, abortion or any of the other hot button issues that the ultraconservative right wing of the party jumps on - or if they do give a shit, they are on the opposing side. They are Republicans because they agree with the fiscal side of what being a Republican has HISTORICALLY meant.

Don't be condescending and "sad" for someone because you think their choice of political party makes them self-hating.

While that certainly could be going on, it could also just be that he grew up in a Republican family and/or naturally aligns with a more fiscally-conservative, smaller government, pro-business point of political view. Republican doesn't necessarily mean religious right or social conservative. As Dr. Phil says, political parties are diverse groups. The existence and activities of the Log Cabin Republicans attest to that. While I agree with the broader point about the implications of stressing how different the OP is from "those gays," there's nothing about being Republican that I find that inherently questionable. I agree with 33girl -- there's something almost condescending about suggesting otherwise.

As for the question he posed, my main concern is still that he's already said too much. If anybody from UNC has checked in on this thread, he's already laid everything out there -- chapters have seen what all he said about himself before meeting him and getting a chance to know him.

What they said :cool:

Oh, I'm not. I see a bit of self-hating in the OP regardless of political leaning. He's obviously trying to set himself apart from other gays and possibly using his membership in the Republican Party as part of that. He resorted to stereotypes of gay men. The gay Republicans I know aren't self-hating, and I don't feel sad for them at all. :)

It could be, but if that were the case, he wouldn't have gone on about how he's not like those other gays. It sounds like he may have thrown the Republican thing in there to emphasize how different he is.

I didn't mean you with that comment, I meant DTD Alum. You more than likely hit the nail right on the head.

I do feel bad for the OP - he is going to get greeted with a chorus of "Poker Face" at every party he walks into.

The context in which he shared his political affiliation is "I'm not too gay" and "I'm just like you."

Munchkin03 and I weren't saying anything negative about Republicans--I don't like anyone or anything when it comes to politics. We are talking about minorities who feel the need to overstate. He could be Republican for a number of reasons. But, again, this context makes me think his life is consciously and/or subconsciously centered around proving he's different.

ETA: I just saw Munchkin03 and 33girl's posts. :)

So does that mean Lady GaGa has dethroned Cher?

DTD Alum was saying something different than what Munchkin and I were saying.

What, I can't think that all of you guys brought up interesting points?

But you and M's points were better and more on point.....better?

Isn't it funny that his political tendencies were the hot button on his post?

To the OP, I can't begin to tell you what to do, but I think I would not lie about it but not feel the need to share your whole life story either. There seems to be an abundance of that lately. Maybe it's a side-effect of social media that there's TMI in the world. I would think your sexual status is something your friends need to know about, and nobody else. On the other hand, I don't know if it's just easier to say some version of "hi. I'm gay" on first introduction, so you don't have to come clean at some later point. Then at least you'd know who you were dealing with right out of the shoot.

And I can definitely tell you there are plenty of gay men in fraternities. My spring formal date, for instance. And that was eons ago. And he was out. OK, he CAME out while he was in the house, and to me. And yes, that was a fun conversation.

You're terrible, Muriel.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_kUqSIs8NY6...igio1_1280.png

Of course as long as you know we were saying different things. :)

Anyone remember when the Heritage Foundation pulled out of CPAC and there was mass hysteria because GOProud was permitted to be a sponsor of the event?

I thought that was a rumor started by the social fundies.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/20...f_goproud.html


ETA- It was rumored that Heritage pulled out BECAUSE GOProud was attending.

Stand corrected on that one, but it did cause issues

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-gays-deepens/

Indeed it did. If my memory serves me correctly it was Concerned Women for America that made the huge stink and went on all of the radio talk shows blasting GOProud for wanting to be at CPAC.

Of course there are. But there can be wide differences on how campus Greek cultures and specific chapters react to it or feel about it. He's asking about the possible reaction at a specific school, and he's asking some specific chapters, or a specific category of chapters.

And like anyone asking a recruitment question, the answer is "you're going to have to find out for yourself." But if he wants to know if he'll be the only gay guy they've ever come across in the Greek system, the answer to that is no. We just can't tell him how this particular fraternity or campus culture responds to homosexuality in the 21st century.

In interest, I googled UNC gay student and after getting past a million stories about a hoax gay hate crime, I found a message board that says UNC is remarkably gay friendly. It didn't mention fraternities, however.

There's a huge difference between a college being gay-friendly, and that same college's Greek system being gay-friendly. I'd imagine that large state schools with excellent academic reputations are probably more gay-friendly than most just by virtue of their size. I can think of a few exceptions, but those are the exception and not the rule. My undergrad (small private) was EXTREMELY gay-friendly. FOX News even did undercover taping of one of the LGBT parties to show how we were one step away from Gomorrah.

Our Greek system on the other hand, was not gay friendly at all. If there were any gay members of NIC fraternities, they were definitely deeply closeted.

And the second question -- the one you say we can't tell him -- is the one he asked, or at least from the context of his question, is the one that matters to him.

Only people from Carolina or familiar with Greek life at Carolina can answer what he's asking about. Unfortunately, as I've said, he may have already shot himself in the foot to some extent.

Guys, I don't see why we're being so harsh on this dude - nobody jumped my throat when I explained to the board that I'm straight, but not all uptight and athletic and macho like those other straight guys ... I'm definitely swishy and speak in tones both dulcet and lispy, I subscribe to both Details and Us Weekly, and not only do people describe me as sartorial, but I know what the word means, too. I don't high five, my flatulence is reserved for the proper time and place, I've never wasted a single minute watching the NFL, and I'm such a gentle lover they call me The Napkin.

I don't want anybody to think I act straight - I definitely do not, heaven forbid. What's the big problem with that, other than sounding incredibly stilted and judgmental and reliant upon fishy stereotypes?

LO freaking L

KSig RC strikes again. LOL.

Since I've never rushed before, I clearly don't know what information is or isn't relevant to help you all answer my question, so I don't exactly appreciate the many of you jumping at me to nitpick at my character. Nonetheless, thanks for those of you who actually answered my questions.

Also, for the record, I'm a Republican because I believe that there are far more pressing issues that have a much greater impact on my quality of life than whether I can get married or not. And I'm from Connecticut, and it's legal here, so I don't really care outside of that. That said, gay marriage is an inevitability; whether the Republicans or Democrats are in power, within the next 20 years gay marriage will be a reality in the United States.

Anyways a few more questions... As I said in the OP, I have some relatives in some very respected fraternities across the East Coast, and my late grandfather was in DKE at Yale. Would it be appropriate to name drop? Or would that be deemed passive arrogance? And, from the looks of it, most people seem to think it would be better for me to just not tell anyone that I'm gay... Is this the general consensus? As for bringing same-sex dates to events, I'm not even sure I'd feel comfortable with that. I would probably just bring a female friend with me. If I did become a member of a fraternity without anyone knowing I like men, if someone were to find out, could I be kicked out?

I apologize about the many questions and my frank long-windedness, but as I said, I've never done this before, so I do appreciate your understanding.

I actually have a cousin in Kappa Sigma at GA Southern. :)

Seriously, I'd suggest you stop posting so much personal information here. People in the chapters you're interested in might read what you've posted -- it's quite possible -- and you've given more than enough information for them to identify you when you go through rush. So all your questions about what you should or shouldn't tell them could be moot; if they've read it here, they already know and may have already formed opinions about you before they've ever laid eyes on you.


Beyond that, and for what it's worth, my advice:

1) Stop trying to pick a fraternity based on reputations, family connections, etc.
2) Go through rush and actually meet the guys in different chapters.
3) Don't try to act like someone you're not. Be yourself and be honest with yourself about where you would fit in and who you would like to call your brothers.
4) Hope that the chapter you think you fit with best likes you for who you are and offers you a bid.

Why you're a Republican is less important than why you felt the need to include that in your rant about how different you are than "other gays."