Mystery New Members on Bid Day
 

We were discussing this on another thread and then I remembered I'd heard of several cases of it happening recently. The scenario: a sorority cuts a girl earlier than prefs and she shows up in their chapter room on Bid Day. Her name is on the new member list and no one can account for that (not the chapter, the advisors, or Panhellenic). What do you do? You're at quota, there were other girls on your second list who should've been there before this relative stranger, and yet how can you say, "Excuse me, there's been some mistake, adios"?

I recently brought this up to my daughters and one said that this happened in her chapter. She said that all concerned were so surprised and the girl appeared to be okay so they let her stay--she never knew what happened--and she ended up being a good member.

??

We went to the girls' rooms/apartments to pick them up, so obviously we had to have our list of who we were getting before bid day got started. The rush director picked it up and we were all at the house waiting to hear the results. I assure you, if Batshit Betty who NONE of us liked and who we already cut was on that list, we would have been at the GA's office in a split second asking WTF happened and demanding her removal. It would have been taken care of before the festivities started.

I can't imagine going to bid day "blind" or with no one but the rush director knowing who was showing up. That just sounds like opening the door to all sorts of abuses of power.

I haven't talked to anyone who said there was a crazy person show up--they were just average people, likeable, but who had been cut before prefs because there were others they wanted more. I suppose if "THAT" girl, you get my drift, had shown up, the chapters would have been freaking out but that's not what's been happening.

I've seen a girl show up after being cut before prefs because Panhellenic mixed her up with someone with the same name (the sorority actually did go back and pick her up when they lost a pledge a month later, I think they felt really bad about having to tell her she wasn't really a pledge) but this is different!

I actually have witnessed this happening. I was an advisor on a smaller campus with three chapters: AAA, BBB and CCC. On pref day, the girl in question had only been invited back to BBB. Her sister was in a chapter not on this campus, but on a larger campus. Her sister told her to put any chapter down that she'd like to join when she turned in her card. She put AAA first (even though they did not invite her to pref), then BBB, then CCC. There were only 25-28 PNMs and the campus had set quota too high. So AAA filled right away. Then BBB. CCC never did reach quota. This girl would have been the only woman who attended pref who did not get a bid, so the Greek Director said that CCC could offer a bid the PNM if they wanted to and it was no secret their national organization was on them to grow because they were much smaller than the other two, so the rush advisor who had never met Polly PNM put her on the bid list. The CCCs had no idea what happened on Bid Day when she showed up and was in their new member class. As far as I know, she was a member in good standing until she graduated.

Well, maybe batshit was a bit much LOL. The fact is, we didn't cut a whole lot of people, so if someone we HAD cut had shown up on our list, we would have known someone other than us put her there. I'm sure that the other chapters on campus would say the same thing.

I guess it depends where in the process they were released. If your recruitment has open house, two invite rounds, and pref, I'd assume most women making it to second invite are not so horrible your chapter can't handle having them as NM's. I just don't see what would be accomplished by booting them instead of welcoming them as part of the class.

(NB: This has something to do with chapter size, too...in a chapter of 100+ women, it's hard for me to believe that someone would genuinely be a "bad fit")

I advise a chapter of 200+ women, and I can attest to the fact that there can be a "bad fit" in a chapter that size. There are so many variables to consider. It does happen.

If chapters are noticing this as a trend at their campus, they should contact their network/HQ officers for help. This is not something that should be handled strictly at a local level. GAs who want to act unilaterally to place women who end up with no bid need to work within the system. Unfortunately, not every chapter is magnanimous enough to welcome these women whole heartedly.

I can think of several women who would be openly ugly to surprise members. :mad: No need for that, as a surprise bid would probably shock a PNM too. I have known, unfortunately, of not a few women who acted ugly towards new members whom they felt were "slip-throughs".

I do relish the memory of one "slip-through" who ended up being a TGC for her sorority. Take that, snarky members!

Too true!

No, that's not the point. If the majority of people say they didn't vote in a way that is standard for women to receive a bid in the organization, she shouldn't get a bid, no matter how blandly inoffensive she is. If the wishes of the members are going to be overridden by the GA/alumnae/rush chair, why bother going through the fallacy of voting on PNMs?

Yeah, it sucks for the rushee, but the whole chapter shouldn't have to pay for something that one person decided and take a member they didn't want. One person tried to do a slip through, got called on their crap, and now has to explain to the rushee.

It's really hard to talk about how "okay" this is without getting too deeply into MS procedures, which of course are different for every group.

I think it really depends on WTF happened. If it's shenanigans by the GA, that's one thing. If it's shenanigans by the alumnae or rush chair, now you're talking about the possibility that they prevented this woman from getting a bid somewhere else. If that's what happened, and the chapter then revokes the woman's bid, that chapter should be sanctioned by the CPH.

If the girl is "blandly inoffensive" the chapter is not paying for the mistake, the girl is. Yes, she wouldn't have received a bid anyway, but that is far preferable than to receive one, get excited, then get it taken away.

You misinterpreted my post (you do that a lot). I meant that the whole chapter should not have to bear the mantle of "those bitches gave me a bid and then took it away!" when the whole chapter never gave her a bid in the first place, one misguided person took it upon themselves to do so.

I personally would not want a "pity bid" or a "OMG we didn't make quota" bid. If I wasn't good enough to be on a bid list after prefs, put on there by the majority of the chapter, I would rather go through COB and make sure they really want me for me, not for my warm body or because I'm pathetic.

None of that matters if the girl is welcomed graciously and no one reveals anything about what happened. Also, I think the person responsible should be penalized.

Yes, it does matter a great deal, IF she did not meet the requirements laid out by the chapter and national organization to receive a bid, and IF as DBB said, this prevented a woman from getting a bid somewhere else where she DID meet the requirements. How many MS sessions have you taken part in exactly?

That's exactly what I said. They should have to explain to the girl why her bid is being rescinded. They should also have to explain to the chapter/Panhel why they thought they could pull this isht.

Can you rescind a bid? I did not even know that was allowed.

Which is why I specified initially that this girl is one of the blandly inoffensive and not someone the chapter blatantly does not want. 4 MS sessions, and yourself?

Well I don't know what I think the punishment should be. But your first suggestion punishes the girl far more than anyone else.

I guess that was the wrong wording. If the sorority never voted her in, and if she was put on the bid list by nefarious means, then she never technically had a bid to begin with. She needs to be informed of that.

Twice that and then some...but then again, I guess you do have 1 for each of your user names.

As I said, it's hard to say how "ok" this is without getting too technical and nosy. But I still say, no matter how "inoffensive" she was...if she didn't meet requirements, she shouldn't be given a bid.

It depends on how strict the policies are. And that's where we're getting into MS rules of individual groups. Suppose the group does final votes earlier than others...but then they have to release some they voted "yes" on due to numbers allowed to invite. So Susie gets released even though they voted to pledge her. Then, the numbers game catches up with the chapter and they have an open slot and Susie, voila!, is still available at bid matching. Can the adviser put her on the list? I would say yes...and then they wind up with someone who wasn't at pref showing up on Bid Day. It can happen. And has...

Just 1 user name and 4 recruitments during my collegiate experience.

And I agree, but just because a girl has been cut does not mean she doesn't meet the requirements of the sorority. At all.

Once again, you're not understanding what I'm saying AT ALL. I don't mean whether she is "fit" for membership, or if she embodies the creed or whatever. I am talking about HOW. PEOPLE. VOTED.

Yes. This.

Treading carefully - especially with RFM, it would be possible for a chapter to vote for a woman who was not invited back because of numbers.

Back in the day, it was possible for chapters to offer snap bids to women who had not accepted a pref invitation but who the chapter wanted. In that case, although the members might have been a bit surprised because they were not at pref, the chapter DID want them and HAD voted for them. (Like today's flex lists).

Unless you have worked as an alumnae with a chapter during recruitment you probably don't fully understand how the process works - but any alumna who abuses her position to manipulate membership selection should be immediately removed from her position, imho.

Agreed. I have worked with the alumnae as an active and I agree with what you're saying in the rest of your post.

And yet, I do not think you can revoke the girls bid (and yes, revoke, she received a card/note/letter/whatever, she has a bid however it was obtained.) Because she received a bid through ABC's screwup/fraud/whatever she may have not received a bid to another org, there is no way to 'fix' the situation that does not screw over the only innocent party involved.

Since MS is up to the chapter, there are not 'do-overs' because of something unethical that occurred in the chapter. As far as the campus panhel is concerned, that girl received a bid and is a member. There is no other way to handle it that wouldn't open the system up to more abuse. There are no 'take-backs' on the bid list.

If a faux-bid from group #1 did indeed prevent her from getting a bid to group #2, and group #2 had her on their bid list, give her a bid to group #2 (even if it overrides quota or total). That fixes her situation - she has a bid from a group who truly wanted her as a group - and shows group #1 how dumb it is to pull this crap (i.e. another sorority gets to take more than allowed because you are jagoffs). Again, this is all treading on MS and really depends upon how long "things" are kept, to verify what happened.

Can we say that it's probably a good idea for the WHOLE chapter to see a list of who's showing up at bid day before it begins and before women are notified? Even regardless of stuff like this...it's probably best for the whole chapter to know in advance that Ultimate Rush Crush Of Everyone picked another sorority instead of yours, instead of it having to "trickle through" the bid day festivities.

I'm trying to picture what it's like for the sororities with the 70+ new member classes. At first, hardly anyone realizes who every girl is. At some point when "mystery members" show up, though, someone must realize, "Hey, wait a minute, we cut her 2 days ago."

BTW, with the mystery pledges I'm talking about, no one knew--or would admit to knowing--how it happened. I suppose people blamed the computers.

Because MS is confidential there's no way to 'verify' that it was a mistake, all panhel gets is the bidlist. And that's what they go on. As far as Suzy knows, she was wanted by ABC, and the chapter should in fact treat her that way. How in the world are you going to figure out whose chapter she should go to otherwise? What if ABC was number one on her bidlist or the only one on her bidlist? There is no way to 'fix' things that doesn't punish the PNM.

Reasons the whole chapter should see the list:
To know who's coming and who your assigned NM is for the event and to glee over everything

Reasons the whole chapter should not police the list: because that's what advisors and recruitment chairs are for.


/has a feeling there's more to this 'occurence' than meets the eye
//and that it's really incredibly rare in the first place.

Oh, I wouldn't revoke the bid (unless she was an axe murderer or something) - as you point out, there's just no good way to remedy the situation without hurting the new member.

Again, this really depends on whether it's "why, there's Sweetiepie Suzie who we had to cut because of RFM, in our letters. Huh." or "why, there's Evil Edna who the GA and the quota obsessed alum/advisor begged us to invite back after we cut her, but we didn't, in our letters. Grrrr." Carnation's OP was worded to make me believe she was talking about the latter example.

I would wager that the SSs end up sticking around, but the EEs probably get the hint and quit before initiation, and then have to wait a year. That's too bad, because one group's Evil Edna could be another group's Excellent Edna.

The effectiveness/impartiality/knowledge of these persons is often greatly exaggerated. Some chapters are lucky, some aren't, often through no fault of their own. Some chapters feel blessed if they have an advisor who shows up at one meeting a year, let alone has a clue what's going on with rush. Some chapters have a rush chair who has An Agenda and could care less about the wishes of her sisters.

I hope.

Yeah I didn't see you doing that it was a general response.

Odds are she isn't unqualified to be a member, just not a good fit for the chapter, or just didn't do well at that chapter's events. None of that justifies dropping her, or trying to reassign her, and frankly you probably don't want to let her know she was a mistake.

New members/outsiders do not see the sausage making that is MS and bid matching for a reason.

TRUTH.

I understand you completely. Her getting a bid IS a mistake. I know that. I understand the chapter did not vote to extend her a bid. I get that. You said she shouldn't get a bid because she didn't fit the requirements, not because she wasn't voted upon. I agree with the first part, and not the second part in regards to this situation.

We got bid lists around 8am, and bids went out around 2pm. That said, I can't imagine anyone but the president, recruitment chair, or reference/computer chair noticing that someone was on there who shouldn't be.

I was using the word "requirements" to avoid getting too precise/technical about MS. Since you STILL don't get it, I'll spell it out: a PNM receiving a certain minimum score during MS is a REQUIREMENT to receive a bid.

The bid was received.
There's your problem. Chapters are responsible for policing their bidlist, but once it is sent, it is considered accurate. There are numerous reasons for why this is a necessary way to handle things, there are not takebacks, redos, whoopsydaisies, or my bads.

Her name's on the bidlist, congratulations you have a marvelous new member.

This may be a dumb question, but say Laura Legacy is at a school where they let legacies through the whole process with their specific legacy sorority all the way up until pref. I was under the impression that it was like that at some schools. So, if she is a legacy to ABC and only wants to be an ABC, yet she slept with the exec board's boyfriends the summer before recruitment (for argument's sake). ABC, after pref, says no, absolutely not, we don't want her. She somehow gets in, due to whatever mix-up or other involvement by someone else. Wouldn't it be preferable for her to be told that no, sorry, she actually didn't get a bid, and then also, would she be eligible to get a snap bid from XYZ, providing they were below quota? Whether XYZ was the other house she preffed or not?

Again, ridiculous circumstances and ignore if you like, but I thought of that and was wondering.

And re: Splash's thoughts, I disagree- I definitely think that it would be preferable to hurt the PNM's feelings (no matter how regrettably) in order for the benefit of the sorority, who did not want her in, and to allow her to join a different sorority at some point that she would be a better fit for.

And mistakes occur. You're preaching the rules. Everyone knows the rules. When there are mystery members, likely something has gone awry. Technically she should not have gotten the bid. We know this. That is because of what you're saying. She wasn't voted to receive a bid. Yes, this is true. But then a mistake happens and she gets one. I'm saying if the only requirement she didn't meet was not being voted to receive a bid, then maybe this can slide. To be clear, this is what I mean when I was referring to your blandly inoffensive comment.

Why in the world would she want a bid to XYZ at that point? Also you cannot say no after pref, this is a major violation of rules. Any school/chapter/org that allows legacies a head start like this would have some sort of override/objection process to prevent your axe murderers and your 'slept with president's boyfriend' types.

Basically by giving her a bid you've removed all other options from her except any chapter that didn't meet quota, which she may or may not have been seeking. You removed any chance of her actually being matched where she belonged, because your chapter screwed up the bidlist (you =ABC) so you get to keep her because the bidlist is the bidlist.

So if there's a PNM you really hate, the best bet would be to string her along, give her an 'accidental' bid and then 'fix' the mistake, right? Orgs are responsible for the list, once it's out of their hands, it is considered completed. That's why there's a deadline.