"Christian" GLOs
 

How does everyone feel about these things? They aren't NIC/NPC, they operate outside of the confines of our recruitment processes, they have houses, they generally compete for a lot of the same members we do.

I'm conflicted--while I generally have no problem with a little competition, by them calling themselves "Christian," the implication is that everyone else is not. I really haven't seen these groups have much of an impact at my school, but they appear to be growing and adding more chapters.

Has anyone had experiences with these groups where they've become more established?

The Christian sorority we had on my campus was extremely conservative and very "in your face" about it. (They're still on campus, but can't speak as to whether they are still as rude now as they were then.) Their definition of what it means to be Christian is very ... precise. Again, I don't know if this is still the case, but it used to be that they had to approve of the church you went to and checked to make sure you went regularly. There was also pretty long list of things you weren't allowed to do on their website, and I can only imagine how much longer that list must have been in private :confused:

My interpretation of what Kevin was talking about is that often these groups will give the impression that if you join any other type of GLO, then you are making an un-Christian decision. And if you are a Christian who is not a member of a Christian GLO, then that is an insulting allegation.

<---lane swerve???

I don't consider that the implication. There is a difference between a Christian GLO "versus" GLOs that are said to be founded on Christian principles and have founders who were Christian.

Aren't there also traditionally Jewish GLOs in the NPC and NIC? Do all of those GLOs consider themselves Jewish GLOs? Genuine question.

I think it's also important to note that the Greek cliche' of "founded on Christian principles" is widely debated among some members of some GLOs. While I love Jesus and also love Delta (not as much as I love Jesus), I wouldn't have been interested in Delta if it was a "Christian sorority."

I rushed a Christian sorority at my first school, but did not go through initiation because I knew I was transferring. I was in the Alpha pledge class (the first one) and I did not want to become an alumna at the same time that the founders did, it felt like I would be cheating them somehow.

The chapter I was shortly involved with did not force their beliefs on anyone, but they did outline their beliefs and values in an information meeting before rush even began. There was also an interview process at the end of rush before bids were sent out, where they briefly and casually asked you about your personal beliefs. It didn't feel like judgement at all to me, and I understood where they were coming from: Having established a Christian sorority, they wanted to make sure members were all on the same page. It was very general stuff, not going into specifics. There were girls from all sorts of denominations involved.

I really enjoyed my time with them and would have been initiated and remained very active with them if I had stayed at that school.

Members were allowed to rush anywhere that would allow them (NPC, whatever APO is) but it was more of a time issue than a faith thing, that most girls did not rush both. But it was nowhere in the rules that you could not. The only rules were along the same lines as NPC: No letters while drinking, you could not take off your letters (lettered shirt) for a guy nor could a guy remove your letters from you.

I know they are a very small group of GLOs so I would love to answer any questions that I can! Sorry I'm not exactly a resident expert, though!

Neither of these are actual NPC (nor [Inter]National rules for most, if not all NPCs) rules. In fact, I've never heard the "no sex in letters" phrased in that way.

^ Oh! I never knew drinking in letters was okay in other organizations, especially NPC. My b :o But yeah, those were our only "rules" and I know they're the same in my Theta chapter.

In that case, I agree. This varies but for some of the Black Christian GLOs in some cities, the overall theme is extremism and anti-Greek sentiments. And some of them are rejects.

At TCU there is Beta Upsilion Chi, a Christian fraternity. It was founded as the group's Beta chapter 1-2 years before I arrived in 1991 and has since had expansion throughout the South.

Yes, they held rush separate from the NIC council, and yes, there were specific questions about drinking, pre-marital sex, etc. Pledges and members had to agree to certain lifestyle rules pertaining to those. The group was actually really strong on our campus, and was actually larger than many of the NIC fraternities. They threw two parties a year- their formal, which was a dry, invite-only affair, and a lake party towards the end of school that was also dry and open to the entire campus. Again, many of the NPC members held a BUX invite in high regard.

There was also a Christian sorority- Eta Iota Sigma (HIS)- that was founded a year later. They had similar questions as part of their rush process, including sharing the person's testimony. This group, at the time, probably had about 75 members, which was smaller than the NPC chapters but still had a strong presence on campus. At one point in the past few years they were offered housing, but passed on the opportuniy.

While both groups had strong memberships and campus presence, the NPC council was not threatened by them. I won't speak for the boys, but I suspect with the alcohol restrictions that they didn't mind them either. There was room for everyone.

No question that TCU is going to attract more students that subscribe to the Christian faith and that would have no problems adhering to these types of restrictions than a larger state school.

For some Christian sororities, it's not really a matter of "knowing" if a potential member is a Christian or not. There really wouldn't be a way of knowing. I think some were established for women who don't have a relationship with God at all, but want to develop a relationship with Him. And then there are some women who already have a relationship with God, but might want to strengthen their relationship with Him.

Some chapters are almost completely Jewish, some are not. SDT, for instance, has a chapter at York College of Pa (in the middle of nowhere). I would be very surprised if they are referred to as the "Jewish sorority" on campus.

Rudey had a couple good posts on this while he was here.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh....php?p=1162687

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?p=832947

I would much rather have a Christian sorority like the ones mentioned who straight up say you have to do/not do this or that, believe this or that, than a chapter of an NPC that is theoretically "non-discriminatory" but that has nightly Bible study in the house or other things that might make the non-religious uncomfortable.

One of the women in my chapter held a bible study in our den. I was conflicted, because on one hand, it was her thing, not a chapter thing, but on the other hand, I can't think of any other equivalent group that held meetings like that in our house.

There's a difference between being Christian and being un-Christian. I think the disturbing part to me is that the implication is that non-Christian GLOs are un-Christian. It's a fine line and perhaps I'm oversensitive about this.

And as far as not being Christian, while many NIC groups are open to people from all walks of life, many (probably most) have decidedly Christian, decidedly Protestant origins. Look at the badges of Sigma Chi and Alpha Tau Omega and tell me that these groups don't have decidedly Christian character.

I see it more as how various people identify themselves. Some Latinos or Asians identify themselves by culture first, then by religion. Some Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual people would identify themselves by their sexual orientation first, then religion. Those in a Christian fraternity or sorority most likely identify themselves by their faith first, then by their culture or whatever. I really don't see the conflict.

Well, my question is whether you are including the NPHC fraternity Omega Psi Phi in this...

From http://www.omegapsiphifraternity.org/mofaq.asp

Q. What is the position of the Fraternity for Non-Christians who make application to become members of Omega Psi Phi?

A. Omega does not have an open admissions policy. It is a privilege to become a member of Omega Psi Phi and the Brotherhood is based on men who espouse Christian education and beliefs.

This issue has been discussed with you on here before.

This is probably the reason why Christian organizations do exist.

I think I said it before in another thread, but I will say it again. I would only feel that there would an issue if the organization/chapter does NOT allow people of other faiths and beliefs or non-beliefs to hold whatever they feel comfortable holding.

Well, a chapter can say till they're blue in the face "go ahead! Be a Druid! We don't care, we accept all faiths!" but if every night 2/3 of the house is sitting around talking about what Jesus did for them today, and doesn't really want to listen to you say what Druidism did for you, it's going to make the Druid uncomfortable. Technically, they're fine with it, but in practice, it's not a welcoming environment. This also becomes a problem when ABC starts getting referred to as "the born-again house" or when "tent talk" says that ABC doesn't take anyone who's not Christian.

I understand what you're saying, but really, this is true of anything. For example, universities which are technically non-sectarian can, and often do, get reputations as being extremely Christian - it's just the kind of students that they tend to attract for one reason or another. If a student can't handle being in that environment, then they probably shouldn't go to that school. Or, for another example, the company where my mom works is strongly founded on Christian principles and ethics, but anyone of any religion is welcome to work there. Honestly, though, non-Christians probably wouldn't find it to be the most comfortable environment. I guess it's just a matter of perspective - who is responsible for an individual's sense of comfort in these types of situations? The individual in choosing where to work/study/socialize/etc., or the organization in ensuring that everyone's choices will make them happy? Personally, I tend to think it lies somewhere in the middle.

Depends on the organization's policies on the matter too.

Really? I can't imagine there being much overlap. Maybe there are some Christian men or women who are devout and are interested in going Greek and deciding whether to join a traditional social GLO + Christian club on campus or a Christian GLO. I'd think that with Christian GLOs with strict standards of behavior (no drinking, no premarital sex, etc) if you do adhere to that lifestyle, you might not feel comfortable surrounding yourself with people who don't share those same values.

The only type of school where I can see there being competition for members is at a private Christian college/University where most of the student body is devoutly Christian.

Re: the problem of 2/3 of the members saying they are tolerant but still make others feel uncomfortable...I can say that became a problem in my chapter towards the end of my time there. For instance, I wasn't happy that chapter announcements often included bible studies or campus outreach while announcing other activities that were personal was frowned upon.

Yeah, that's the exact sort of situation I'm talking about. If you're going to announce those things because sisters are members, you should also announce that the College Democrats are having a bake sale or the RPG Club is sponsoring a movie, if sisters are members of those groups.

Agreed. Drove me nuts. I hate to add to southern stereotypes, but that type of situation apparently arises in almost every chapter on campus at points...very irritating.

That doesn't just happen in the south.

I'm sure it doesn't, but in some parts of it religion (which means Christianity) is expected of you.

That doesn't just happen in the south, so this doesn't fuel some southern stereotype.

Ok great. Then I'll word it this way: I've spent my entire life down here and it is part of the culture, even for the non-religious/non-Christian. Doesn't change the point.

I think that's part of the culture of the majority of the United States ... :confused:

Uh...what? LOL. I'm only talking about the southern part of your post.

I love how people look at New York and LA as the North and everything else is the South.

I understand what Alumiyum is trying to say, but the problem is she is ascribing it as a southern stereotype, when it is a US stereotype. Outside of the cities of California religious diversity isn't something that is common. And don't get started on New York vs NYC.

No, not in the way she's speaking of. There's a difference between (for lack of a better term) secular Christianity and practicing Christianity.

There's also a big difference between denominations.

As was I. Specifically this phenomenon: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WugJ4KEbGP...Bible+Belt.png
I am not talking about regions that are homogeneous religion-wise...I'm talking about the virulent southern baptist contingent.

Disclaimer: No offense to baptists (my parents grew up southern baptist, but became methodists after the conservative views expected of them got a little OOC)...it just seems that particular flavor attracts the most vocal element down here.

Did she really post a map? Ha.

Anyway, me thinks Alumiyum (as with many southerners) is adamant about such things being a southern thing and is therefore hellbent on fueling a southern stereotype. :) Even when claiming that she's not trying to fuel a southern stereotype. :) Have at it.

33girl, I know what Alumiyum is talking about and it isn't just a southern thing. This was not just a discussion of regional religious demographics.

That is a horrible map; I can't tell what exactly it is supposed to be showing? Here are some more informative (and labeled!) ones: http://religions.pewforum.org/maps

I suppose if you consider Southern Baptists to be the only Christians who "count" for your purposes, they certainly are concentrated in the South, but I really don't get it ...

:rolleyes:

You prove your point well my friend, that holier than thou certainly isn't limited to local churches. Applause.

I'm not trying to fuel or un-fuel anything. I'm certainly not invested in southern stereotypes as the majority of them don't happen to apply to me. I was just born here. Either you don't understand what I am talking about or you have no experience with it since the southern baptist contingent is what I am referring to (again, no offense to baptists as I realize individuals don't necessarily represent the actual beliefs). I am by no means under the impression that the same phenomenon does not occur in other parts of the country (or in fact in ways not even related to Christianity at all), but the dynamics can certainly be different since the dominant denomination is different.

I had no trouble interpreting it whatsoever. I didn't find it difficult to read the key at all.:confused:

Beat me to it. This map only shows the concentration of one group. Last I checked one group doesn't have the monopoly on closed-mindedness.

Heck being a Protestant going to Catholic School, I'll never forget the nun telling me I was going to hell because I wasn't Catholic....and that was not in the South.

Again it is an American thing, not a Southern thing. I understand what you are saying, but it isn't a Southern Stereotype. Reality I would ascribe it more so to the fact that the South as a block votes red and your "blue states" are only really blue because those states have a large urban center.

Which is why States like Virginia and North Carolina are starting to become more blue because of the growth of Charlotte and the DC metro area which is attracting a more diverse crowd, not because there is a mental shift in philosophy.

Please refer to the above post where I say that I am referring to a different variety of a common phenomenon. Southern Baptist and Catholic might produce the same result, but in different ways, that's for sure.