Women who start out at community college
 

As KSUViolet just pointed out, we've had a lot of threads lately from upperclassmen (especially seniors) wanting to rush. Many are transfers from a CC.

With the rising costs of college, I'm hearing the "start at a CC" advice being passed around more and more often. If women do this, are they also deciding to never be in a sorority? What, if anything, should we be doing to accommodate these women? I know some schools have a junior quota, but I'm wondering if, even then, the CC transfers are at a disadvantage as compared to women who have established themselves on campus and made friends in the various sororities.

Or is this not a problem at all?

It is a problem at the competitive universities I'm familiar with, primarily because the women are upperclassmen and no, it's not fair. It does help a bit to come in with a very high average and/or knowing sorority members but it can definitely affect your recruitment. (Not to the point of getting shut wholly out of the sororities.)

It's probably different in, say, Florida and California where so many more women start out at CCs.

I kinda wish there was a way to "rush" these girls the semester before they transfer, and bring them into the fold for junior year.

Not at the larger, more competitive recruitments in Florida. Those women just need to remain open to any opportunities that might present themselves,not come in with preconceived notions and give each chapter a chance. Sorry for all the cliches', but that is how it is.

I think it will be a big thing in Virginia as well. I'm not sure how long this program has been going on or exactly how it works, but there is a program that has guaranteed admissions to almost any Virginia school (even great schools like UVA) in agreements with community colleges in the area. Not saying anywhere in VA is as cutthroat as the SEC, but just another example.

Really? This is a little OT and I'm going to come off pretty snobby (because I kinda am), but... really? I know there are some students who are smart and driven and go to CC right after HS to save costs. But probably 80% of people I know who went to CC couldn't get into a 4-year school.

And in a lot of ways I'm not sure that a CC is going to prepare you for upperclassmen-level classes and culture at a school like UVA. So why give "guaranteed" admission to these people, when more qualified applicants can't get in? I can see giving a little leeway in admissions to a CC transfer, but GUARANTEED admission? Is this guaranteed if you have X GPA, or just guaranteed if you graduate? A 2.5 from Tiny Town CC is not going to get you far at UVA.

/pretension

I've never heard of a program that didn't have a GPA requirement.


In any case, my original question was less about "will they have a hard time with rush?", and more about "should something be done to remedy that?". Obviously a junior quota is one thing that helps.

Just to be crazy for a minute, what would happen in NPC let chapters pledge women who were in CC's, but not initiate until they were at a 4-year school?

Yes, there is a requirement that the transfers meet the standards of an agreement between each school. that being said, if they have such-and-such gpa and meet those, it's much easier to transfer, allowing them to have that option more readily. So I just think there will be a lot more transfers within the VA colleges.

That would really depend how close the CC is to the college in question. Among other things.

If you go to a CC to save money, it may not be in your best interests to then go to a 4 year and blow all your savings on sorority dues, mixers, t-shirts, etc. The schools we're mainly talking about that have super-competitive rushes also tend to have super-expensive dues. Just a thought.

So sororities should be exclusively for the privileged?

You sure seem to make a lot of presumptions as to why someone would go to a community college.

Some go to save money-- mom and dad do not have the money to pay for kid to go to a big school. Kid is going to school full time and working full time. I know of kids who are working, going to school, active on campus and have 4.0 averages. They plan to work their fannies of so they can get into a good school with a good scholarship.

Some go to a CC because they need to stay close to home to help. I know some helping a dying parent, a family with a very special needs sibling, a temporary financial situation, etc. They too are dealing with hardships and still pulling top grades.

A young lady graduated from our local CC with my son 2 weeks ago. She was only 17 years old. She was taking classes at the CC not offered at the HS, while still partaking in HS activities and AP classes with friends. She is transferring to Cornell on a full ride scholarship. Does this mean she should not be in a sorority?

A friend of my son's went to the CC since she had a horrible illness during her senior year of HS which affected her grades. She finished recuperating while attending a CC. She is transferring to Cal Berkeley.

DaffyKD

:) You all are only talking about NPC sororities.

Non-NPC sororities each have their own policies for CC transfers. The biggest message is that most non-NPC sororities do not accept applicants who are currently enrolled at CCs. That's why there are "CC Sororities" for those who don't want to transfer to a 4 year college/university or don't want to wait until alumnae chapter.

/back in my lane

Well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog (Post 2060484) If you go to a CC to save money, ...

...she brought it up in a specific context.

How many Sorority Recruitment threads say "Sororities are expensive. If you can't afford dues, it may not be in your best interest to go through recruitment only to deactivate a semester later because of finances"?

Not in the post you quoted, but that's not really here nor there. :-)

Is there an NPHC policy, or is it up to the individual orgs? In the NPC, it's actually a conference policy, and at least a few orgs have had to close existing chapters at CC's (or their last-century equivalent) to join the NPC.

In any case, I think there's a larger discussion to be had about NPC policies and how we do/do not (and whether we should/should not) accommodate non-traditional students. We've come a long way with the different recruitment styles and such, but I think there may be more room to think creatively about these things. We say again and again that "membership is for life", but then we don't let people join if they didn't make that decision when they were 17/18.

Now, some things are org-specific, and I applaud the groups that consider grad students as PNM's and the ones that have more accepting AI (oh, god, I hate to mention that) policies. But there are definitely some areas where a group's hands are tied by NPC policies, recruitment and otherwise.

I am swerving a bit here, but I agree with the OP that Greek Life is not completely out of the question for transfers. Although I am not a NPC, I am a transfer and I went to CC for my 1st year.

As far as the CC program, they also have this in FL. The idea is that if a student completes their A.A. with some said requirements at a CC that they will be accepted to any of the public universities in that state. Not all degrees qualify for this, but a large portion do. The concept behind this is that it is cheaper to do the first 2 years at a CC and the last 2 at a U than it is to do 4 years at a U. Also, it encourages students to transfer after getting their A.A. and continue their education. People go to CC for many different reasons and I hardly think it defines them as a person or student. If they want to learn, educate themselves, and be involved, they will, if they want to slide on by and skate, they will.

I agree, I just think that some people have the idea that these are the only schools that count.

That's why you all are talking about NPC sororities. The posts in this thread would be different if it was a non-NPC discussion. :) That includes your rhetorical about sororities only being for the privileged.

I don't really know, and obviously nobody wants to talk MS, here...it just seems like we get a lot of threads on here about women wanting to rush as upperclassmen, and the advice they get is always the same: it will be tough, be willing to take a bid from a less-popular group, etc.

It could be that we only get threads from a self-selecting group of women going to tough-on-junior schools because they come to GC looking for an answer different from the one they got in real life.

The reality is, the highest quality collegiate sorority experience is dependent on more than one year, and probably more than two years of time in a collegiate chapter. Yes, there is the advantage for the chapter to have longer retention, but it is also better for the member. From a financial perspective, the first term is really expensive for the new member. From new member fees to dues to an Initiation fee, it's a hard hit. Costs go down considerably after that first term so if you simply look at the Return on Investment for the new member, financially, if that first term's costs get you 8 semesters of collegiate experience versus 2 semesters, you're getting a better deal.

During the new member period, it's a big learning curve. You're getting to know the women in the chapter, learning the history, etc. You aren't eligible to run for an office yet. Ideally, leadership begins at a committee level and grows into a coordinator or chairman position and then into an Executive Board/Council role. Being in a chapter for only a year or two robs you of those leadership opportunities. Of course there are anecdotal experiences that will contradict that statement, but the reality is, leadership is generally developed, not an inherent gift. When you're in the chapter only a year or two, it could be difficult to get the chance to live-in when there is a house. When you're only in the chapter for a year or two, it could be difficult to be a big sister/sister-mother. Your own experience as a Junior/Senior new member is lessened by simply not being around for as long. You won't master recruitment skills or get the same feeling of tradition and you'll be gone in the blink of an eye. You won't get the same number or level of personal development programs either.

There are a lot of disadvantages for the chapter itself too, but I decided, this time, to focus on the disadvantages for the new member. You simply cannot get the full collegiate experience in that short of a time period. When I see the "rushing as a senior" threads, my first thought is always "Why?"

This:


Especially since the OP was about this:


IF you start at CC to save money, sorority membership at one of those schools where upperclassmen have trouble getting bids may not be in your finances. YMMV.

I disagree with this entire post. :)

Juniors who join may have gotten a bid BECAUSE of their leadership roles in other campus activities. There's no reason those skills can't transfer to sorority roles as well. Not to mention the women (of all class levels) that they've met through those activities who may also become sisters.

As far as learning history...chapters still do that?? (Snarky and sarcastic...but not really. Look at NM programs nowadays.)

The "older" pledges I've known often graduate with nothing but love in their hearts for the sorority and nothing but good to say about the experience. To contrast, the girls who've been involved since freshman year are the ones usually saying "I can't wait to get the eff out of here." Varies between both these groups, of course. It also depends a lot on chapter size. If you're in a chapter under 80 or so, you probably will have enough roles in 2 years that you'll feel sated. By contrast, a woman in a chapter of 200 can stay active for 4 years and never do anything other than nominally serve on A committee. I don't see where that experience is more "fulfilling."

I couldn't have said it better myself. I joined when I was "junior" standing due to doubling up on courses and graduating with my A.A. from Penn State before finishing on with my B.A. In fact, I was in school for my B.A. but, just happened to "pick up" my A.A. because of all the classes I chose. I was an older student who was busy with my military commitment before even joining a sorority.

Guess what: I served as Membership Director and as Risk Management Chair (at a school where Greek Life can be pretty important). I graduated and, every year since I've graduated, I've held various Alumnae Chapter positions to include Secretary, Vice President, and Treasurer. I've been to two conventions as a voting delegate and I'm preparing for my 3rd one, next summer. By then, I just may be President of my Alumnae Chapter.

I am very involved. In fact, this coming week, I will be heading South to attend an officer training for my sorority. I'm very excited about that! I have also written recommendations for interested PNMs. I recently received a foundation scholarship from my sorority, as well. All-and-all, I am very happy with my experience. I bleed pink and white and couldn't imagine NOT being a member of a sorority.

Just an observation of this discussion...

The problem with GC is that we make too many broad generalizations. What works at one school/council/organization/whatever seldom works for another school/council/organization/whatever. Logically we understand this, but we never seem to practice it, or acknowledge that someone can only speak from their experience and that doesn't make it wrong, it just makes it different.

Just sayin'/back to my lane

I agree (at least in part) with what the posters above me are saying (33girl, als, Gusteau) - so much of a girl's experience joining a sorority as an upperclassmen would depend on the girl (outgoing or shy), the school (traditional or non-traditional student body), the chapter (large or small/housed or unhoused), and the pledge class (all freshman save the one upperclassmen or decent mix). It isn't safe to make generalizations about how that girl will feel about her experience.

Having said that, in defense of AGDee, I didn't get the impression she was saying that a girl who joined as an upperclassmen wouldn't enjoy their experience or love their sorority - just that they wouldn't have quite the same experience or rather as much of that experience as a freshman, so they COULD come away feeling disappointed.

I don't think this means they shouldn't rush - just that they should know that depending on all the factors mentioned, there are things they MIGHT miss out on that a typical freshman wouldn't, and they need to be aware of that or they may find themselves frustrated.

As Gusteau pointed out, we can only go from our own experience, and I can only go from my daughter's. From her perspective, I understand completely what AGDee is saying. She loves her sorority and she loves her sisters (most of the time:)), but when she joined she was a second quarter sophomore by credits and a junior by age. When she finishes school, she will have been there 2 1/2 years.

She's been involved and she's held a leadership position. She's made good friends. She plans on staying involved with her sorority after college. But does she feel like she would have had a more complete experience had she joined as a freshman? Yes.

She knows that there are things she missed and will miss out on. She's getting to live in next year, but it will only be for 2 quarters and last year she didn't think she would get to live in ever. She regrets not getting to live in a full year, and she would have regretted it more had she not gotten to live in at all.

As I said, she's made good friends, but she didn't find them immediately, and she would like to have another year and a half to spend with them to really solidify those friendships.

She loved her leadership position this year, but there are several others she would like to have tried in addition to it (she would like to have run for a position on Panhellenic), and there just won't be time to do that.

And yes, there were times (not many, but some) when she felt like she was paying a lot of dues for some significant experiences she would never have (living in primarily).

Again, she loves her sorority, but she does wish she had more time with it. Granted, maybe she would have ended up like one of the freshman 33girl mentions - chomping at the bit to get out and get away from everyone, but it doesn't feel that way to her right now.

She had a really good experience - a lot of great things came out of it for her, but it hasn't been quite the same experience it would have been if she had started out as a freshman.

I see your points. My frame of reference for my own collegiate chapter was a very small chapter, less than 45 women. As to the part I quoted, our new programming spreads out the learning over the entire collegiate experience with separate programming for new members, middle members and seniors. So you'd definitely miss out on some things if you weren't in at least 3 years.

Re: als' post, (didn't quote, sorry): I'm referring to only the collegiate experience, not the alumnae experience. The collegiate experience is very short in comparison so losing time from that experience is more significant, in my view. I'm one of the more "pro AI" people on here so I see a lot of value in the alumnae years of membership but the collegiate years are so very different than the alumnae years.

I guess this is the crux of it. We can say a billion times that "membership is for life", but the emphasis will always be on those four(ish) years as an undergraduate.

Even if the emphasis isn't on those four(ish) years as a collegian, the collegiate experience is significantly different than the alumnae experience.

Ours does the same. That's part of the reason I'm not too jazzed about it - especially since we have chapters at MANY schools where late-in-life (lol) pledges are commonplace. It doesn't make sense to me - it's like whoever wrote the program was being aspirational rather than realistic. I know I've also stated on here that the whole "making it easier for seniors to stay involved and so slightly lessening their responsibilities" and "programming that makes the seniors feel like they should just GTFO" is a very, very fine line to walk.

Because ultimately for NPC groups the college experience is not comparable to the alumnae experience. They're incredibly different even at the most active alumnae chapters.

It's not very different at all for many alums, other than there's no formal rush to speak of. I've known of several tightly-knit alum groups that meet regularly and get involved in tons of activities, both social and service. I've even heard alums of various sororities say that their alum group is closer and more active than their chapter of initiation was.

Mixers?

Initiation and other activities with the pledge class?

Greek week?

If you don't show up you get fined?

We're not talking about closeness of relationships, we're talking about activities.

My chapter in Arkansas had mixers with other alum clubs plus events with husbands. We had a huge part in the active chapter's initiation ceremonies plus we were very involved in helping during rush.

Nobody got fined because we had such great attendance!

So, the exception that proves the rule, huh? Unless you're willing to say that your experience is representative of your GLO's alumane members in general?

Do I wish I'd had more time with my chapter? Hell to the mutha****in' yes! BUT people will have regrets about various things all their lives. That doesn't mean it's not worth living.

I was still new member of the year because I was more mature, sensible, and involved than any other new member. Why? Because I knew what I was getting myself into and the expectations that were on me as a new member. I also expected to have a bigger involvement as an alumna because my collegiate years were short (2.5 years).

I value the time I spent as an active collegiate and I wish there was more active encouragement and emphasis on alumna life because many collegiate women simply don't realize that you don't die when you graduate and that is the point of college. I give more back to my chapter than 99% of the alumnae we've graduated simply because I care about my chapter and my organization. There are very few of us in the trenches giving back at my chapter and I'm working desperately to correct this and have been able to improve things through alumnae programming this year.

I'm GLAD the my school sees value in older members. I didn't go to community college, but many of my pledge sisters and women before them and after them did and still do in mine and many chapters on my campus. They have proven to be some of the greatest assets. I can't change SEC campuses. But I can say that when sororities began they were catered to non-traditional students (women in college) and I'm glad campuses like SEC are far and few between. While they are valuable chapters, they are no more valuable than any other and some of the traditions that many practice (like racism & agism [yeah i said it] among many others) need to die. I'm over them and they are not the end all be all dictators of sorority life. PLEASE. :rolleyes:

Who knows?

/cosign all of this.

Then I stand by my statement, I'm sure there are outliers, but it's been pretty much agreed by NPC members on this board that college and alumnae experience is NOT the same.

Where?