Are you a PNM wondering what you can do to "improve your chances" at recruitment?
 

Here's a suggestion: If you have not yet sent the sorority alumnae who have written your recommendations a personal, handwritten thank-you note, this is the time to do so.

I am writing a rec for a local girl (I don't know personally) who is going to a school with an extremely competitive recruitment. She sent me a packet a couple of weeks ago that was extremely polished and professional, but not over-the-top. What she could have done, but did not do, was include any sort of personal note or thank you to my attention.

To date, I haven't received a thank-you note, and I'm not holding it against her nor will it affect my recommendation of her. However, I have a lot more "fun" things to do with my time than write recs and a thank-you would be a nice touch. Had I forgotten about it (certainly possible when alumnae have children and are dealing with end-of-the school-year busyness), it would serve as a reminder, and as it is, it might improve my opinion of her and therefore increase the time and effort that I put into writing her rec.

So, if you are a PNM, wondering what to do, write those thank-you notes. It doesn't have to be complicated, and they can all be the same. ("Dear Mrs/Ms. Alumna, I so appreciate you taking time to send a recommendation letter on my behalf to University. I am really looking forward to recruitment! I hope you enjoy your summer. Sincerely, Polly PNM"

Wow. A month or so back I wrote a rec for a PNM planning to attend a super competitive school. I did not know her personally, she contacted me via our local alumnae Panhellenic. I happily sent her information off to the chapter, and shared with the PNM the information I knew about this particular campus' recruitment activities. She thanked me immediately, I wished her well, and added that I hoped she would let me know how it all worked out!

I'm completely confident she's going to have a great experience if she does her own research, presents herself to the best of her ability, keeps an open mind, and truly wants to join a sorority. That's my formula for improving your chances.

I read my post several times before I actually posted it, because I didn't want it to sound snippy. The point that I wanted to make is that it is good practice in life to thank those who are offering you assistance. In a situation like this, a note can serve as a reminder to someone that she has agreed to lend assistance.

This time of year, we get lots of questions like "Should I wear the blue dress or black for pref?" "Should I list xyz on my resume?" My point is that it is always a good idea to practice good manners (you received a thank-you immediately, I received none), and that if a girl is wondering how she should prepare for recruitment, brushing up on social graces is a good base to cover.

A few years ago, I did on-campus interviews for my company's summer internship. I interviewed 12 people, and got zero thank-you notes. Seriously?

You didn't want to sound snippy? Mission not accomplished. Passive-aggressiveness IS snippy. Plus, your getting or not getting a thank you note has as much chance of affecting her recruitment as my dog getting on Broadway. Unless you actually no-rec her for not sending a thank-you, in which case, you'd be a total bitch with less social grace than that which you complain about.

People, if you EXPECT a thank-you note and are going to get POed for not receiving one, do everyone involved a favor and refrain from doing favors.

I've re-read my post, and I disagree that it sounds snippy, but I do think that I mistitled it. Sending a thank-you note will not likely affect a PNM's recruitment, unless (1) their packet got lost en route to the alumna's house and slips through the cracks, in which case the note would alert that alumna to the problem (2) the scenario above, in which an alumna didn't send the rec (which I can't even imagine someone doing).

I do not write recs because I want to receive thank-you notes in the mail. However, just as I expect that I'll receive a thank-you if I give someone a gift or hold the door for someone, I expect that I should receive some thanks (even a post-it attached to her resume) that says "Thank you for your assistance" (or something similar).

I should probably admit that I just finished reading a Miss Manners book. That has probably influenced me!

I'm with KD on this one. I've been helping a few girls get their recruitment packets together for RIF and letter writers. The absolutely FIRST thing on my list for them is thank you notes. I'll help them with a script (so they're not reinventing the wheel with each one) but they're mandatory.

In my mind, if we're (sororities) helping groom women to go out into the world, then it starts here.

And yes, if I were interviewing someone and they did NOT send me a thank you note - it would affect my decision about them. Think how they would treat clients once they got into your workplace?

Maybe I'm too southern, though. Meh.

KD's post wasn't snippy, but mine might be... :D

Well, I'm a northerner and I think it absurd. No thank you = not that interested in the job?

Seriously. That's what I think it means. Someone took an hour out of their day to interview you and you can't take 5 minutes to write a note? Emily Post in me would prefer handwritten, but even if it's an email...it shows your level of interest or lack thereof.

I swear I'm not trying to snark, it's just what I know.

maybe this is one of those southern things.

i agree with the ladies who are suggesting to the pnms that they take the time to write a note(it can be brief) of thanks. The alumna is doing the pnm a favor and it is considered good manners to thank her.

people interviewing for jobs should also write a note of thanks. it shows that you have been "raised right" and may put you back in the thoughts of the interviewer.

I do live in the South. Perhaps it is a regional thing. Our Alumnae Panhellenic does stress to PNMs that they should send thank-you notes.

As for the thank-you after job interviews, I agree that it is necessary. I was taught in college that the post-interview thank you note is a way to stand out (guess this means that everyone doesn't write them, come to think of it), reiterate your interest and enthusiasm for the job, and to clarify/minimize any of your weaknesses that you felt might be a hindrance to your obtaining the position. For that reason, I have always made sure they are in the mail pronto (next morning at latest) because I want the interviewer to see my note before the final decision is made.

If I were doing the interviewing, I wouldn't eliminate someone who didn't send a note or hire someone obviously less qualified who did, but I would think twice before hiring someone who didn't send a note. Not because I love getting thank-you notes so much, but because I have always (and continue to) hear those advising job-seekers to send post-interview notes. Seems that if someone really wants the job, that he or she will try to make the effort to stand out.

All of this discussion about thank you notes has reminded me that I have one of my own to write. I'd better get to it, right now!

I'm a Southerner, and if I interviewed 12 people, 11 didn't send me a thank you note and one did... guess who seems more interested and on the ball?

It may not be "fair" - and maybe it is just regional, but I've never dinged anyone for being "too polite".

^This.

If you want to stand out and show interest and gratitude, it's the simplest way. If I were considering two absolutely equal people for the job, one wrote a note and one didn't, the one who did would get the job. Plain and simple.

Thanks for this thread - it's interesting to see that maybe it's just a regional thing. Not that I love writing them or getting them, but it's just nice to be personally acknowledged.

It's not necessarily a regional thing.

I remember being taught in Illinois to send thank you notes for job interviews.

I interviewed at least 15 southerners for an Admin job here in NC - not one thank you note.


Also, my original point still stands: Yes, thank you notes are polite and SHOULD be sent, but if you're going to get pissed off about NOT getting one, then don't do the favor to begin with.

My aunt told my mom that she would only send my kids a Christmas gift if I sent her a Christmas card (I'm not at a point in my life where I'm doing Christmas cards en masse, and I'm not really all that close to many people in my family due to age difference and geography). My aunt is fairly well off and would have probably sent my children very expensive gifts. She did NOT get a Christmas card - and no, my kids didn't get gifts from her. I hate when people determine that generosity should have stipulations.

Jinx! We sent that example at the same time!

1) Define "pissed off"...does that mean not send the RIF? Then, yes you're right, that's dumb. Is "disappointed" ok? I'm sorry, but if I'm going out of my way to do something nice and somewhat time consuming for someone (particularly if you're asking me to do it and I didn't volunteer to do it) and you don't bother to thank me for my time, then yes...I'm disappointed. If that's also defined as "pissed off" then so be it. :cool:

2) Your aunt reminds me of a cousin...she told my sister that if she didn't get a HS graduation announcement, she wouldn't be sending a gift. Stoopid reasoning. My sister doesn't even order grad announcements because it looks like you're fishing for a gift.

My two cents...a thank you note takes about 2 seconds to write, a few cents to mail, and down here at least, it's expected. I was brought up to show my appreciation for gifts or favors such as recs, and that it is rude to not take the couple of minutes it takes to write and send one. And in my experience, I'm hardly in the minority there.

As the OP said, it shouldn't be a rec-no rec factor, but it's just the polite thing to do...and she's right about it serving as a reminder. It can sometimes be both polite AND useful. My mother told me that my thank you note to one woman actually got me another rec, because she'd forgotten to send it over the summer since she was so busy.

While the OP could have chosen a better title for her thread, the message within is a good one. I did not find it snippy at all, although admittedly I have been on the receiving end of the "I am rushing NEXT WEEK at Bama and I need a rec written today" request that was not followed up with any kind of thanks, written or otherwise.

With my schedule I very rarely write a rec the day that I get the packet. In fact, about a week later is typical for me unless we are up against the deadline. When a PNM takes the time to send a hand written note, it reflects very positively on her. This in turn does affect the time and care that I take to write that rec. Admittedly I do put a little more effort and work into those PNMs that demonstrate good manners.

I'm originally from (nearly) as far North as you can go, and I sent a thank you note to every person who wrote me a rec about a week after giving them my packet.

I've also tended to put more effort into the letters I've written for women who've sent me thank you notes, not because I appreciate it (which I do) but because I really want a woman with such good social graces in my sorority.

I've also sent a thank you to every interview, but that's a case of (a) wanting to be polite and (b) wanting the job.

I also don't think this was passive aggressive, but that's just me.

The thread title is flat out wrong.

Anything from"How to appease the old people you're asking to write letters for you," to "Hey it's just polite, stupid."

But it does jack shit to increase one's odds and THAT is what comes off as passive aggressive in this thread.

The title was worded wrong, but I agree with KD4Me.
A little thank you note goes a long way! Act like you got some home training!

Bad title for this thread, I've already said that (I think). What was in my head at the moment was that some PNMs come here and ask questions about what they should wear to a party three months from now, so I thought I would offer advice that would be helpful to them right now.

I do think that someone who takes time to write a letter saying that a PNM would be a worthy member of her sorority deserve note of thanks. Will not sending it hurt your chances? Unlikely. Will sending it result in a more favorable impression on the alumna, resulting in a stronger reference? Possibly. So when PNMs are posting pictures of shoes, asking us which ones we prefer with which dress for a party that won't occur for months, I offer a suggestion of something that they can do NOW that might help them, and that certainly is a good practice for life.

Lane-swerving here, but I think there's something about this that applies to all favors. Whether it's small or large, a thank-you note is a quick and simple gesture that should always be done.

I'm from the west, and even here, thank-you notes are a nice gesture. It's just that only few people do them. Yet, they definitely are a plus.

Now I'm kind of disappointed I didn't quote you for posterity.

But in reality, the controversial part of this WAS the title. It comes off not as a good bit of advice or even a bit of venting about rudeness but as really passive aggressive because it is soooo utterly unrelated to the title you gave it. Thus suggesting you'd sink someone's recruitment for failing to thank you properly OR suggesting that you'd guarantee someone's recruitment for the right note. Neither of these is really within your ability so it comes off poorly.

And despite my strong dislike for dress the PNM threads, you're still coming off rather patronizing with your "good practice for life" lines, in my opinion.

North, South, East, or West, you should always do your best to thank the people who help you improve yourself, or have gone out of their way for you.

Which makes you a better person, which makes you a more positive, interesting PNM, which helps your chances with recruitment.

Oh come on. That is a ridiculous stretch.

I'm from the North, ok, now the Middle East, and I think thank you notes are a sadly forgotten art. But the part that jumped out at me is the PNM sent in the packet without a cover letter, which to a certain extent would have served as a thank you. "Here's my stuff. Please send it to the AB sorority at Big State U. Thank you so much for doing this for me." This is also a good life lesson that is missed on so many job applicants. You HAVE to have a cover letter, and it HAS to be specific to the job at hand, or rec request in this case.

Thank you notes are not a regional thing. They are a manners thing. I will chalk thank you notes up there with a man helping a women on with her coat, a gentleman opening up the car door and pulling out a ladies chair. A lot of these gestures are a forgotten art. You can never have enough manners IMHO.

I totally agree with KD4me.

Exactly.

Plus stationery is cute and fun and girly to buy. :)

No, those unnecessary things are not just about manners.

If you think they are, that highlights how manners and necessity in this sense are subjective. Some people think "thank you" cards are manners and, therefore, much needed and others think the "thank you" is implied (or stated) in even being asked to do the favor in the first place.

I think the larger debate in this thread is whether thank you cards have an impact on a PNM's chances. I can't speak on that as far as NPC but I can say that the lack of any type of thank you, or a Soror's belief that an aspirant is ungrateful in general, can impact the aspirant's chances if the Soror cares enough to talk to the Sorors who are in charge of membership intake. That does happen but it isn't rampant.

<===lane swerve from someone who tends to both write and receive "thank you" cards, emails, or some type of interaction that shows appreciation

I am genuinely sorry that you feel that way.

Me too. :(

It is flat out ridiculous to connect thank you notes with being a "better" person and then some how associating it with the success of one's recruitment.

You may believe it makes them a more polite person, shows good manners or what have you, but you're reaching really really far to claim 'better' person or that inherently they're more interesting as a PNM and have better chances at recruitment.

Unless you somehow have information on the respective results of PNMs who write thank you notes and those who don't instead of just wishful thinking.

I'm not arguing that it's not generally polite to send a thank you note, but it has jack to do with a PNM's recruitment and pretending otherwise is the only problem people have with the thread.

/and save your pity.

A catfight over thank-you notes?
You people are really bored!:rolleyes:

Ah, but thank you for taking time out of your busy busy day to comment on it! I'm so glad you have more entertaining things to do with your time.

The majority of women I write recs for are first generation Greek and/or first generation college students. I work very hard to give those women the advantages other women were born with or have never had to think about and try to even the playing field. I would never do anything to hurt these women in recruitment or hold anything against them for not receiving a thank you note. Not that all manners and etiquette expectations and experience are based on social class, but since a lot are it would be quite unmannerly and poor etiquette to take it out on these women without helping and educating them about the adult world they are entering.

I would also be thrilled if I never had to see another post on GC about manners and/or etiquette where it is implied the South has some monopoly, higher expectations, or exceeds any other region of the USA. I know those of you from the South aren't directly or intentionally insulting everyone else in the country, but in the end reading it over and over again is tiresome and insulting to me.

Yes, yes, a million times yes. Although my upbringing was filled with a lot of etiquette lessons--formal and unformal--the sorority rec thank you was something I was completely unaware of. I submitted my bio and photos to the local Panhel but I had no idea what they were going to do with them. It wasn't until later that I learned that they had written recs. I didn't grow up with an NPC family, nor did I have a ton of friends who'd give me the deets. I sent plenty of thank-you notes and cards to teachers who wrote recs, and I sent thank-you notes to my teachers after the AP/IB exam results came in, but I still have NO IDEA who wrote my recs for Alpha Chi and Theta. Clearly that didn't impact anything, as I got recs to both groups. I did get a good number of thank-you notes as an alum because I called the women before I wrote their recs.

There is entirely too much Southern chauvinism on GC when it comes to matters of etiquette--this comes from someone who grew up in the South--but I have to say it's gotten way better than it was about 5 years ago!

well then, maybe the pnm (no matter where she resides) should err on the side of caution and send a thank-you note, whether she thinks it is necessary or not. I have never heard of anyone who complained about receiving a thank you note, but as we have seen here, several women would have appreciated receiving one.

I was going to say - maybe the girls don't send thank you notes because they don't know if the women wrote the rec and have no way to find out? I mean isn't that kind of like sending a thank-you note before someone even sends you a present, just assuming they will do so? I would feel quite silly if I wrote a TY note to someone thanking them for the birthday present and never got anything.

Or should they put a TY note in with the packet when they send it to the alumna? That sounds like it would make more sense.

And again, thank you notes are NOT a Southern thing, they're a good etiquette thing, period.