Rushing as a SENIOR in the Fall, informal recruitment. Advice?
 

Hey! :]

I plan on rushing in the fall as a senior--I know this is very late and puts odds against me for getting a bid, so any advice you can give me to better prepare me will be great! I did formal rush in the spring, and fell in love with a particular sorority and they cut me first day. After Day 3 I quit rush. This time I have no intention of quitting because this is my very last chance!

Don't have your heart set on one sorority. Keep an open mind. Be prepared for rejection, but don't let it stop you from trying.

Preparation: did you read the outstanding recruitment advice given by adpiucf? If you'll go to the Recruitment Forum section of GC, the first several threads under Sorority Recruitment will give you all the advice you need, and then some.

From what you wrote, your school had Formal Recruitment this past spring semester, so you're going through informal this coming fall, correct? If all chapters are not participating in informal, your chances of being offered a bid are even more significantly reduced. It's unfortunate for you that you dropped out of recruitment this past spring, honestly, because at that time you were a 2nd semester junior with only one year left to participate. That may well have been your best chance to become a member of any chapter. Setting your heart on one chapter is a certain recipe for disaster.

That's my opinion. Good luck to you.

At the line in bold: If you knew this, why did you drop out?

You dropped out of recruitment, as a junior, without giving any of the other sororities a chance. What makes you think they're going to give you one now?

My one piece of advice: If you choose to go through recruitment, whether informal or formal, DON'T go in expecting the chapter that you love to give you a bid. They dropped you on Day 1. It will probably be very difficult to go from that, to them giving you a bid one semester later, especially when you're now that much closer to graduation.

All of the sororities do participate in the informal recruitment in the fall. I did not know then what I have read recently on here about recruitment. It just felt very wrong at the time to continue through the process when I felt a strong sort of calling to one organization that dropped me first day and I felt like I would be settling somewhere I did not belong.

Very good. You wanted one chapter but they did not invite you back past the first round. There is nothing wrong with dropping out of recruitment under the circumstances you've added. You didn't see yourself anywhere else. That happens. You probably didn't consider that you did disappoint members of other chapters who continued to invite you back, even though you were a junior at the time.

Now we wonder: so what has changed? You're now willing to "settle somewhere"? Or are you hoping that the chapter that previously did not invite you back will now desire you? Surely there must be some different circumstances.

FWIW: this is not us being mean; this is honest reflection from the other side of the fence, tempered with a dollop of cynicism. PNMs come here constantly with similar stories. Typically the details include that the desirable chapter was the "top" chapter on campus.

Again, best of luck to you.

I was a senior when I rushed in the spring, I see I failed to mention that. There are 7 sororities, I was cut by 5 the first day. There were a few I like very well, but like I said there was one that I absolutely fell in love with due to their friendliness, philanthropy, and creativity for their rush environment and props. I am an elementary education major and their philanthropy deals with children so I naturally felt very drawn to that sorority. But anyway, Day 2 I was invited back by only two sororities and I was able to be invited back by up to 5, so that was quite a disappointment. I was heartbroken but wanted to be as fair as I could and I gave them both a shot. Day 3, I came back and only 1 had invited me back and out of the two I went to the previous day, it was the one I felt the very least connection to. I have friends in different sororities and they think my senior status hurt because in the spring they look for freshmen.

You ask a good question--what has changed? Well, ever since I quit rush I have always wondered did I do the right thing? I know my reasons at the time, and I still understand them--that I felt like I would be settling somewhere I did not belong. Here is what has changed: if I am lucky enough to get a bid at my last opportunity to do so, I feel that they must see a connection between us, and this is something I desire strongly. I have always wanted to be a part of a collegiate sorority and this is my last chance. I also now know more girls in the other sororities that I am more able to relate to than I could during rush. Talking only a couple minutes to talk to a handful of girls through rush makes it hard to figure out who you could truly bond with, and after meeting some of them outside of rush, I see more bonding possibilities. I also I know I will have regrets if I do not take this opportunity to rush. That said, I am a part of a very small non-collegiate sorority that I do enjoy, but it has yet to fulfil what I am looking for. I am looking a lot of girls to befriend. I want to help more girls after they have had a hard day, help them realize how special they are, and as an upperclassmen possibly help them with anything I might be able to, whether it be academics or emotional, as well as participate in community service together. The small non-collegiate sorority I am in has a lot of growing and work to do--I have faith it will happen, but I really want to be part of a collegiate one with a lot of girls!

I understand this is not you all being mean, and I appreciate you all's honesty and taking the time to respond. :]

I'm betting that the "group you felt least connected to" is also the one that is hurting for numbers and under direction to ask back as many women as they can (whether THEY feel a connection with them or not). Most probably, this is, once again, the only group that will offer you a bid, IF they even do.

Lots of groups will/did probably question why you waited so long to rush in the first place. Unless you have a GOOD reason - I changed my major and I have more time, I broke up with my controlling boyfriend, my group of friends dumped me, I won the lottery and can afford it now - or a GOOD friend in a chapter to speak up for you, or a record number of women dropped out of sororities between last spring and the coming fall, your chances are extremely slim.

In that case I do have a good reason. I was in a serious relationship with my boyfriend who was going into the navy and my time was consumed with academics and seeing him before he went off to boot camp and training. We eventually got engaged, but since then we broke up and remain friends. You are prorbably right about what you said about the organization I felt least connected to needing the most members.

Yes, but was he a controlling semi-abusive jerk who cut you off from everyone else? (I'm guessing not since you're still friends) Just "I was spending a lot of time with my boyfriend" doesn't cut it. That only leads people to believe that you will conduct your life in the same way if you acquire another boyfriend.

Unless you have a CLOSE friend or two in a sorority, I honestly think you would be best served by putting more effort into growing and strengthening the group you are already a part of. Even if you are an upperclassman rushing, there are going to be girls younger than you years-wise that will be older than you sorority-wise, and coming in as a new pledge and trying to mother everyone (at least that's the tone I get from your post) isn't going to go over very well. The girls I do know who pledged when they were older - well let's just say they were 180 degrees from that way of thinking. That's part of why it worked for them.

No, not that controlling. I just felt the need to spend as much time as I could with him before he was gone for 7 months. I would not do this again, military changes things.

How were the older girls you knew 180 degrees from my way of thinking? I also think that because I will be grad student or starting a new major would be beneficial by having an alum still there to any organization.

I don't think the discussion now about your boyfriend is something you want to talk about on this board. Because of the quoted above, I feel as if you will be going into rush with an open mind - one of the best ways to maximize your chances of getting a bid. If you get a bid, enjoy your time in the sorority, they all have something great to offer you. If you have good friends in the sorority, this can help you.

I don't know whether to speak about recs or not. I'll defer to someone else.

Edit: Are you plan on graduating on time? If not, mention that you will be around longer.

Most organizations do not allow alumnae to be advisers for a few years after they graduate. Your too close to the chapter members and may not be able to make decisions that effect them without being swayed by your friendships. Secondly, as an alum, most organizations generally do not allow alums to "party" with the collegians so going to grad school wouldn't give you extra time with the chapter unless you join a chapter that allows women to remain active members while in grad school (which are few and far between.)

There is abundant information available regarding the (cognitive) developmental differences between a 17-18 year old freshman and a 21-22 year old senior. Light years of difference in terms of interests, maturity, perspective. Huge differences. That's one thing for you to consider.

Again, good luck; go through recruitment with a completely open mind and prepare yourself for whatever outcome there is.

Question- you say above that you were a senior when you rushed in the spring. And you'll be a senior in the fall. Does that mean that you're graduating halfway through the year? Or that you'll be a 5th-year senior?

Right. So those seven months explain why you didn't decide to rush until your senior year. :rolleyes:

You'll be a second semester senior when you're rushing again. The sororities already let you know what their verdict was on first semester seniors when you rushed last semester. No one is going to be looking at you and thinking "Yay! She'll be an active alumna soon! Let's give her a bid!"

Maybe you should find a club you can join until you eventually graduate.

That's not what I was talking about at all. I was talking about juniors and seniors I knew who joined as opposed to the OP, not as opposed to freshmen.

You sound more like a mom than a sister. The older (junior and senior) girls I knew who pledged were completely devoid of mom-like qualities - in other words, they were on the same level as the rest of the girls in the chapter.

Yes, it is fulfilling to feel like you're helping someone that way, but you can't come in as a pledge and start to do it. If that's what you're looking for, then again, I recommend that you try to grow the organization you already belong to.

She's already a member of a non-collegiate sorority.

Well since I do have a strong desire to atleast give it my best shot at rush, what would you suggest?

"Right. So those seven months explain why you didn't decide to rush until your senior year. " In response to that yes, it does explain it because I went a community college my first 2 years which did not offer greek life.

The Rho Deltas very strongly encouraged me to come back in the fall and rush.

Of course they did. They want to see the smaller chapter grow and figure you'll end up there.

If you want to rush again, fine, it's up to you, but be prepared to have the same or worse result as the last time you rushed, UNLESS you have become close friends with some sorority members who will pull for you.

33girl, I think you and I are looking at different sides of the same coin;I see your point(s) and agree with it/them. And I also think that combining viewpoints gives more information and fleshes out the conversation.

OP: go in with an open mind and accept the outcome, whatever it is. You cannot change your age/class standing/maturity level. So prepare yourself accordingly.

I realize that but it's obviously not fulfilling her.

As usual, a PNM adds more information as her motives are questioned. Funny you never thought to mention it before but latched right on to that boyfriend thing. Now I'm just waiting for the tale of your entire family being wiped out in a fiery accident and how your recovery from bubonic plague delayed your sorority dreams.

Everyone loves you and is encouraging you to re-rush. WTF did you need GreekChat for?

I know. It's getting pretty ridiculous, especially since every one of them has to start a thread to espouse their unique snowflake virtues and totally unique situation.

Call me crazy, but the chapter I advise wouldn't even be allowed to take a senior, regardless of semester.

Barbie's Rush,

What's with the negative attitude? I am looking for a realistic honest response. I do not expect to be welcomed being a senior--obviously, that's why I am sincerely requesting advice! I feel like you see it as a big joke or pity me so I get a bid with your comment "Now I'm just waiting for the tale of your entire family being wiped out in a fiery accident and how your recovery from bubonic plague delayed your sorority dreams." There was no fiery accident obviously, but if you want to more of my personal problems that delayed feel free to ask. I just ask that you take it seriously and realize that I am seeking advice, not ridicule. I realize you could be a lot more harsh if you want to be, but I feel as if something has came across the wrong way.

It's not negative. It's realistic. I don't blow rainbows up every pony's ass. There's another site for that.

Everyone has given you the answer you were supposedly seeking. Yet you keep coming back with more "but...even if...but this happened previously...everyone says I should..." tales of woe that you think make you a special snowflake who we will immediately recognize as being the exception to the rule. We see people like you come here all the time, changing, editing and adding. Your answer is going to be the same. It gets tiresome.

I'm going to lay it out for you:

1) You are a senior with a limited "shelf life."

2) You already went through formal recruitment as a senior. EVERY sorority quickly dropped you except "Struggling Sigma." We don't know how that would have turned out since you weren't willing to give them the same chance they may have been willing to take on you.

3) Now "Struggling Sigma" doesn't look so bad. Because you'll take a bid from anyone now.

4) Nothing has changed for you since your last recruitment except for the fact that you're (hopefully) one semester closer to graduating.

5) Your chances are slimmer than they were during formal as even fewer new members are taken during informal/COB.

6) Sometimes members IRL say kind things "OMG you should totally rush again!," "It was only because we want freshmen during spring!" etc. only because they're trying not to hurt you or don't know what else to say. (Or think "Struggling Sigma" might actually offer you bid but their sorority certainly won't.)

7) Honestly, a lot of the reasons for wanting to join that you mentioned here sound a little creepy. I'm hoping it's just the way you're coming off online, but if you were coming off as all momsie in person you might seem like you don't fit in.

By all means, do go through whatever type of recruitment that's offered in the fall. You definitely won't get a bid anywhere if you don't try it again. (And don't be surprised if "Struggling Sigma" remembers you, and not for the right reasons. You should know that you may have burned that bridge.) But you also need to be honest with yourself. If being rejected again is going to kill your soul, you're probably better off looking into another club or revitalizing your non-collegiate sorority.

Seriously?

Pardon me being judgmental, but that's fucked up.

Not if you have a house to keep full. A senior is most likely never going to live in.

Yes. I don't have a problem with it, but I'm pretty sure (unless I misunderstood something) that someone higher up the chain has told them not to do that.

Now, I could be off - it could be because of numbers in a particular class. Our upcoming senior class, for example, is huge. We're going to take a big hit when they graduate, unless next spring's recruitment numbers are pretty major.

Then if that's the case, there should be a chapter bylaw that says "all members regardless of class standing must live in the house for x semesters." If Suzy Senior can't fulfill that, then don't give her a bid. But don't not give her a bid because of her class status. That can really put you on the hook if someone wants to say you're discriminating. I mean, Frieda Freshman might not be able to live in the house and do her part, so she shouldn't get a bid either.

Nothing is a "sure thing."

Class standing isn't a protected class when it comes to discrimination. There's nothing 'wrong' with it and the vast majority of chapters do it. Ideal world, it wouldn't happen, in a world of quotas and totals and beds, it does. Women don't get bids because they are seniors all the damn time. Some do get bids and that's awesome, but it happens all the time.

Stop acting like it's a shocking lawsuit waiting to happen.

It is if people admit on a message board that their chapter does it, and have been told by a higher-up in their sorority to do it.

And yes, it IS wrong. If this was about a chapter being told that a Native American lesbian chem major shouldn't get a bid, you'd be contacting the ACLU yourself.

Many NPC groups and NPC in general have said over the past few years that they need to be more open to nontraditional students. IMO, that includes anyone other than the 18 year old freshman. Obviously, this has as much weight as the "recommendation" to get rid of frilly rush made 15+ years ago has had. DBB touched on this in the community college thread.

It's one thing to say "try to give bids to qualified women in a way that each class has an equal amount of members." I completely agree with that. It's quite another to say "you are forbidden to bid a senior, no matter what."

No, because there's no protected class involved. Being a senior in school is not the same thing as being a minority of any sort.

Because our orgs have policies against racial discrimination and states have laws against it. Some states and some orgs protect from discrimination on sexual orientation, but chem majors, like seniors are NOT a protected class.

This is ridiculous on the face.

And yet, if a chapter refuses to take senior women, not a thing will happen to them legally. Only if it is violating an internal policy will there be problems.

Also, I really haven't seen such a push to be open to nontraditional students, where have you seen this outside of GC?
Sure they're different but there is no legal/lawsuit/civil rights issue here. Because there is nothing wrong with accepting only freshmen, just like there's nothing wrong with requiring membership in a 4 year degree granting institution.

No, it's not fair. But neither is recruitment, really; it tries to be equal, but it's not really about fairness. Number goals and requirements from HQ are real and create certain restrictions on chapters. It'd be nice if things weren't that way, but they are and pretending otherwise is silly.

http://www.kappakappagamma.org/Templ...CONTENTID=8225

Let's get off this "protected class" garbage - and just say it is stupid to say "you are not allowed to take a senior" because at some point it may bite you in the ass. I guarantee you if Selena Gomez or any of those chickie-babes went through rush as a senior, everyone would be falling themselves to bid her.

Absolutes of any kind with regard to member selection (other than being a girl or having a minimum GPA) are dumb and dangerous to implement because they contradict the fact that much of member selection is intangible. If it gets around that ABC is FORBIDDEN (there's a big difference between forbidding something and it just not happening) to bid seniors, this or that major, or anything else, it'll call into question what their exact requirements are. Basically I'm saying - if you're going to put one facet out thee, be prepared to be asked to put it ALL out there.

If traditionally, seniors are typically not found amongst PNMs during rush, wouldnt that make them a minority? Being a senior at a school, not a minority. Being a senior during NPC rush, minority.

Otherwise, I agree, this isn't a big enough issue for legalities to be involved, but just wondering.

ETA: oh, obligatory "lane swerve" clause.

Fair enough, not something i've seen discussed so much, but also not necessarily comparable to a prohibition on accepting seniors, or a disinclination to for any reason. Are such articles coming along with lowered pressure or reprioritized pressure about numbers at collegiate chapters, I wonder?

I don't see that as necessarily referring to nontraditional students. But perhaps someone who was there could say.

Chickie babes? WTF?
Protected class is important if you're talking lawsuits, which while I specifically said the word, you were hinting at the trouble a chapter could get into.

And even if some celebrity was rushing as a senior, I'm sure a 'no seniors ever' rule would get broken for that and then never broken again. Finding special circumstances is again, a terrible way to discuss a general rule.


I'm laughing that absolutes are DUMB AND DANGEROUS except when it's a minimum GPA. Amazingly our chapters manage to have minimum GPAs without revealing their MS and gee somehow I bet they can have absolute NO SENIORS rules without ever revealing their MS, nor are they probably going around campus and saying 'NO SENIORS.' Because seniors get bids all the time in every other chapter, amirite?

Where the hell do you get Dangerous? If you're not wanting to talk about protected classes and minorities and that 'garbage' then you're probably not talking about lawsuits.

So, Top Tier sorority ABC (tm) gets a rep for banning seniors and their campus reputation is ruined? Bullshit. Groups and chapters have their own MS, always have, and a senior has, in general, a much lower chance of membership in NPC groups. Whether a rule is explicit, implicit or enforced by the advisors without the actives even being aware of it, it's their MS and no matter how unfair it is, it's not dangerous even if you think it's dumb.

And with housing requirements in particular, I'd argue that it's not necessarily dumb either.

In a numerical sense, yes, but not in a sociological sense, no.

So will redheads, six foot tall women, professional chess players and engineering majors (at most schools at least), but none are legally protected either.

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but neither would a PNM's braces or hairdo, but there are organizational and chapter reasons why seniors have fewer options.