Boyfriend Hazing
 

Hey everyone,

I'm not a part of any greek organizations, but my on/off boyfriend of 5 years is and I've been trying really hard to adapt to this change and understand him. It has been very challenging so I figured the best way to go about this would be to talk to those who are in greek organizations.

My boyfriend was hazed as a part of his pledging process. As I understand it, the hazing was mostly in the form of violence or other physical torment. I did not appreciate this but tried to show my support. Since then, something about his demeanor has changed and I can't put my finger on it. I asked him if when the time comes he will condone and/or participate in hazing and he said that he would.

The guy I fell in love with has never been violent. I told him that I understand violence to be an act of hate. He tells me that he doesn't expect me to understand and that "it is what it is". How can I go about handling this and understanding him better? It really is tearing us apart.

Break up with him. He sounds like an idiot and besides, you have been "on/off" for five years. If you two can't get it together in five years...

You've been dating this guy since (at the latest) your senior year in high school. You've wasted enough of your life. Move on.

I'm not sure that I would define violence as an act of hate.

There are a lot of variables here that you may not understand and that he may not yet understand in himself, psychologically, sociologically, etc.

Although you haven't disclosed your race (and it really doesn't matter), you should read Black Haze by Ricky Jones. It's a good first step to understanding the hows and whys of hazing, and it's my belief that there are similarities there among all organizations or chapters which haze.

Full disclosure: I wrote a novel called Lazarus which also deals with this topic. Although it is out of print, used copies are available through Amazon.

While I can't tell you whether you should leave your man or not, I don't think staying or leaving are the only options.

@ 33girl and LatinaAlumna

I understand your answers are probably skewed by the political correct representation of your organization, but reading this I would go with Sen's answer and not just jump on him.

@nmarti36

Take Sen's advice get info, because it is much deeper than stay or go.

Yes hazing is wrong, but you are talking about a culture that is affecting the and corrupting many people.

Huh?

Thanks. I really do want to understand what he feels about all these things. He gets frustrated when he tries to explain and I don't understand. Maybe that'll help me come to better decision.

You said break up he's an idiot.

You jumped to the conclusion he is an idiot with limited information (the fact that the only example she gave was the fact that he was hazed and now that he is on the other side he has a different idea of hazing), which is why I said don't jump on him.

Psychologically hazing and the hazing culture is deeper than just being an idiot. Many smart people have been fooled by this culture.

Co-sign

Their relationship issues are their relationship issues. That's neither here nor there for Greekchat discussion. What I'm more interested in is that I think I generally know what this young man's pledge experience was; and he's probably acting as many if not most people act after a particular type of pledge period.

Yep and many smart people don't consider themselves fooled by it. They appreciate the culture for what it is and think there's nothing wrong with at as long as people don't go "too far."

Long story short, I see nothing idiotic about this man based on what we have read. If anything, I think the OP needs to think critically about why she cares so much and reflect on the fact that she felt the need to come to Greekchat to ask this.

@ BluePhire:

The primary reason I posted was the 5 years off/on at (presumably) such a young age, and I should have called them both idiots.

I also do not agree that because something was "done to me" that I should do the same to others. I felt that way before I joined an organization, and still feel that way after 15 years in. So, yes, for this reason, too, he seems like an idiot to me.

They are idiots for being on/off at a young age? College age is the only time on/off relationships make sense as far as I'm concerned.

Neither you nor the OP know what was done to him.

For someone who is using my alleged immaturity as an argument you're not making a great case for yourself. You have no knowledge of me, my boyfriend, or our history outside of this context. Therefore you have no right to pass judgment on me or him for a relationship you know nothing about. Obviously if we've been on and off for five years it's because we've had our struggles but have time and time again come to the conclusion that we'd like to work through them. We were very young when our relationship started, hence why it didn't work out before. We were adolescents in the midst of growing pains that warped our perspectives. Now we are adults, trying our best to work things out. No relationship comes without its struggles. I did not come here to get your criticism on my judgment and my relationship. I came here seeking knowledge about something I know very little about in the hopes of understanding someone I care about. So how about you take your blind, ignorant accusations elsewhere.

QFP.

You cannot be surprised that people respond to the information that you volunteer. Surely you did not need strangers on Greekchat to not only school you about what your boyfriend's going through but to tell you what to do with your relationship. Not sharing with strangers is the best way to keep people from forming opinions based on the little that they read.

This is my first time posting in a forum of this nature so perhaps I made a newbie's mistake by divulging too much. I quickly found out which parts those were and regret including them. However, despite what you may believe, I came solely for enlightenment on how to handle the introduction of greek life in our relationship. I do not seek strangers for opinions on whether I should terminate my relationships or not. Clearly I made a mistake in anticipating solely factually based opinions and I should have phrased my post differently.

It boils down to asking strangers what to do with your relationship. There are no "factually based" opinions on this matter and it is not up to you to determine how we will respond to you. You are not in control once you create the thread.

Your question was answered long before you chose to respond to LatinaAlumna.

You're right. I've gotten all the answers I need. Whatever happens to this thread afterward is no longer my concern. I will be more cautious in the future should I choose to participate in any forum.

...and there's the Flounce.

It's not a flounce.

Moi aussi.

If they aren't sympatico enough after that long that she can understand what he's talking about, at that age, time to pack it in.

Also, re me following "the politically correct representation of [my] organization" - pray tell BluPhire, is this your very first rodeo?

33girl is anything but politically correct.

Only with you. I don't interact with you much, but as time goes on I am learning more about each of you. (and don't take that as a I choose to ignore you, its just we just don't always post in the same subjects)

But I will be the first to apologize for jumping to a conclusion based off of what I read. The answer when I read it seemed like the typical, "Hazing is wrong and our organizations don't condone hazing...blah blah blah."

On/off relationships never make sense to me. I think it's silly to waste five years of your life trying to make it work with somebody, especially in high school/college when there is an abundance of people to meet. Just cut the cord and find someone else instead of trying over and over again. If it was a good relationship, they would most likely be "on" the whole time.


Neither you nor the OP know what was done to him.[/QUOTE]

Yep

Okay, then. Stand by your man, no matter what! I think that's what you wanted to hear, and at least one person gave you advice on how to approach the whole fraternity issue. Are you okay now?

It's all good honey pie. :)

College is a time when not everything makes sense and that's the learning process.

On/off relationships never made sense to me when I was a high school student,** when I was a college student, or now that I'm in my almost mid-30s. But, that's how I've lived my life. I definitely don't think those who have lived theirs differently in this regard are automatically idiots.

** relationships, period, didn't make sense to me when I was in high school...and kind of when I was in college

Good job, I guess. ;)

I wish I could say the same for you, even sarcastically.

^Do (or don't do) whatever you feel is best.

^ No shit, genius.

I keep thinking by the title that the OP wants to find ways to haze her boyfriend. And then I confuse it with the lavaliere one and think that the OP thinks she's being hazed by not getting a lavaliere.

OP, if you haze your boyfriend, he will NOT give you a lavaliere, even if his old girlfriend did get one.

"The definition of hazing can vary by organization."

:p

Boomchickawowow!!!

If you truly believe that this relationship is going somewhere (and you intend to stick this out), I would recommend that you seek counseling...or at least urge HIM to seek counseling. I would begin telling him that you care for him enough to recognize when something is 'not right' with him and that it pains you to see him obviously hurting over something you cannot help him with. Express to him that since you've known him for a long time, you see that something about him has recently changed and it scares you. Make sure to let him know that you'll be there with him/for him through this process.

Reading books can help you gain perspective, but it is NOT going to change your man. If you believe that he is headed down a road that is destructive - whether physical, psychological, emotional, or otherwise, I would urge you to DO something about it.

As an aside... You might want to do (or have him do) a little research into the hazing laws of your state (and the codes of conduct at your particular school). The things you're insinuating are - in many states, not all - criminal offenses (some felony), that carry punishments, including fines, arrest records, and potentially jail time. It is NOT something to be taken lightly.

I don't understand how you even feel like you should even do anything about this. Either the guy is worth continuing the relationship with or you need to move on to greener pastures.

I feel as though this is bad advice.

Ummm no.

In re-reading the OP, I'm thinking that she wasn't asking what to do about the guy as much as she wants to understand the psychology of hazing from those who don't view it as horrible. I could be wrong, but if she sees something like paddling as something you could only do with anger and hate, then she doesn't understand why her boyfriend would participate, so she's asking for another perspective.

The irony of this coming from you would make Alanis Morrisette jealous.

But congrats on getting to 19 posts without getting banned. Again. What will it be when the inevitable happens, the 20th time you've been banned?

I agree with Senusret and BluPhire.