2 Fraternity Brothers Caught Breaking Into Sorority House
 

2 brothers from the University of New Mexico's Pi Kappa Alpha chapter were caught trying to break into the Pi Beta Phi house.

Excuse: They wanted to "look for secrets and stuff and get dirt on them (the Pi Phis)".

Best line from the boys? One asked if the charges would be dropped if he apologized. :rolleyes:

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/educati...-into-sorority

Sounds like a pretty harmless prank to me. Give 'em some community service hours and be done with it.

Breaking and entering is a harmless prank? Interesting.

/Not a fan of pranks

Prank or not, ill intent or not, they were caught in the act of breaking the law. This prank will cost them.

While they may truly have had no intent to bring harm to any of the girls, as a parent of hopefully a future sorority woman, I dont want to receive a call telling me boys broke in/attempted to break in to her sorority house for a prank or otherwise.

As an advisor and former Facility Corp. President, I can think of many reasons why this isnt humorous. If that second story window was someone's bedroom they broke in to, would it be funny then? I doubt it would be for the girls sleeping in there. What if a member's bed happened to be under that window with the member in it? Would it be a funny prank if one of those boys accidentally fell on her? It wouldnt be to me.

I agree.

We could talk all day about what could have happened, but as far as what actually *did* happen, there was no property damage and nobody was hurt.

Do I think there should be consequences? Sure, but they've already served a night in jail, and that is probably far worse than a lot of college students will deal with for doing a lot of far stupider things.

What if it wasn't two students, but rather two adult males who weren't affiliated with the school at all? Would you feel the same way?

What if someone broke into your house in the middle of the night... would you not want them arrested because there was no property damage and no one was hurt?

So.. because some students might not have been punished for doing other stupid things, these two shouldn't be punished for doing this?

ETA: The guys SAID they were breaking in to "look for secrets and stuff," but hell, if I were really breaking in to steal/vandalize property, assault someone, or possibly rape them, I'd probably say the same thing.

You just never know.

I'm sure they did it because we're known to keep our secret stuff easily accessible and also, we leave documents with dirt on all the sisters out where people can see them.

Wait a minute. This might be ritual information for us. Maybe I shouldn't have revealed this and the delete button isn't working. Mods!!!!!!

No, I wouldn't. I don't know the campus culture, but if it "happens all of the time", as the men claim, then I don't see why this is different from TPing or forking or whatever other stupid prank is common on that campus. For all we know, the Pi Phis stole their class paddle last week and this was their attempt to get it back.

There is definitely a double-standard, where women can sneak into a frat house and it's cute, and then men try to sneak into a sorority house and they are suddenly hardened criminals.

They did not break into the house. They looked around for an open window or a loose screen and did not find one.

No, I'm saying they have already spent a night in jail, they will likely receive consequences from their fraternity, and I would, if I were the house mother/advisor decline to press charges. Perhaps I would ask that they agree to do some service work or something of that sort, but I just don't know that these clowns deserve to walk around with a rap sheet the rest of their lives.

I'm with the not-the-end-of-the-world crowd. Would I be pissed if I were a Pi Phi that lived in that house? You bet, but I'd probably chalk it up to idiocy and hope they got a lot of community service, a hefty fine, and a decent probation term, just to make sure they behave themselves from now on. (And would hope their fraternity would find some way to punish them as well). But I truly do not believe they are the same thing as burglars.

I understand that there is "stealing" of other chapters' property. It happened on my campus. But every time it did, it was during a party, or some event when people were welcomed into the house, and once it was realized that the item had been taken, it was returned. However, breaking and entering is a completely different ballgame, IMO. At what point does it go beyond a prank and become a serious offense?

At my school, during the time I was active, one fraternity, along with members of the baseball team, broke into another fraternity's house and beat the brothers with baseball bats while they slept. It's really not funny, and I wouldn't blame anyone for coming down hard on these guys.

And no, it doesn't matter if you're a girl breaking into a fraternity house or a guy breaking into a sorority house.

So what do you feel is an appropriate consequence?

I don't have a specific one in mind. But this whole "Boys will be boys" .. or "Greeks will be Greeks" mentality will probably, one day, lead to a more serious offense.

It usually does.

IMO it's not about Greeks or boys...more "kids will be kids". And kids do dumb shit. They should be punished, they should be sent the message that there's no excuse for it, but for things like this (where it's pretty obvious they were just being morons) it shouldn't ruin their futures.

Now I do think probation is a good idea. If they ARE the type that think they're above the law they can land back in jail, and serves them right.

Right, but the severity of the punishment should match the severity of the crime, and I don't really think that we can judge that without more context around campus norms, and/or how "self-policing" this Greek system may be. I don't think they should get off scott-free, I just don't think it's fair to make them the example if this type of thing is generally no big deal.

As you said upthread, your campus didn't call the police every time something was stolen.

Many years ago, long before home alarm systems, a fraternity broke into our house. They were dressed all in black, burst into the bedrooms, pulled down blankets and took pictures. The girls were in various states of nightwear. They cut the phone lines (we only had landlines in those days) and used them to tie a bar across the housemother's room so she could not get out. The trauma suffered by some was very severe. When the police went to the fraternity to talk to the guys, one idiot responded that it was a sorority house so it was fair game. When asked how he would feel it it had been his sister who was woken up by a bunch of guys taking pictures he responded he would be off the wall irate.

Breaking and entering whether a joke or not is not harmless. It is a criminal act. it is time we stop justifying actions as "simple college pranks" whether it is breaking and entering, sexual assault, hazing, giving alcohol to minors or....

DaffyKD

they were probably too scared to admit that it was really a panty raid, haha.

It really depends on what the relationship was between these two groups as to whether it was a "harmless" prank.

All sororities have some fraternities that they are more comfy with than others, some they're getting to know, some that they're neutral on, some they just don't like and some that creep them out. 1-2 the sorority probably wouldn't care and would find it funny, 3 it depends, and 4-5 they would be upset and freaked out.

Without knowing that relationship, it's impossible to tell what the intent/result was. (The comment about "getting stuff on them" may have been taken completely out of context.) But to say that every fraternity will be treated the same just isn't true.

This. Unless you know something about the chapters involved, you don't know whether these guys were breaking in to do something really bad or just to play a harmless prank.

On the one hand, charging these fellas with burglary or something like that, just 'cuz, could ruin their lives. On the other, they could deserve to have their lives ruined. I figure it'll all work out in the end.

Considering school was out, the women aren't living in the house and the house mom is there alone, harmless prank isn't good enough for me. The house mom would be the one to make the discovery and the women aren't going to be back for three months, so it isn't like the sorority of women are being pranked by fraternity men, it is the house mom being pranked by two guys who happen to be in a fraternity.

The video mentioned they tried to cut the electricity (wtf) and there was a lot of damage, enough for them to be booked for felony residential burglary and conspiracy according to the video. The public documents list it as a 3rd degree felony for felony attempt & conspiracy, so no misdemeanors like paying a fine or a written apology will likely cut it. If they haven't previously been naughty they probably won't get what I read of basic sentencing of 3 years for a 3rd or 18 months for a 4th degree felony and the possibility of a $5,000 fine, in addition to other costs. At least they aren't hamming it up in their mugshots.

Uh, is this the guy who thinks a written apology is acceptable?

http://kikisalcido.com/

Was the house empty?

The video in the first post, which is the only news story I've been able to find, states the house was empty other than the house mom. With school being out a week by then I wouldn't expect the girls to be there. More often than not we close our houses for the summer and do maintenance, whereas many men keep their homes open and sorority women rent summer housing. Sigma Chi has apartment style housing here and many women share during summer school.

Let's just say if I were to ever prank someone or someones I'd actually want them to find out so I could see their reaction and then have a good laugh and wait for my turn. I'm the kind of person to leave clues, a "ransom note" and identify myself somehow. I sure as hell wouldn't break in or destroy anything, nor would I surprise someone alone right before dawn. Not that our house moms would be carrying concealed weapons due to our insurance policies but in general I assume people are armed and I'd like to avoid getting shot as well as breaking the law.

ETA: I forgot this in my previous post. There is no mention of alcohol being a factor, but they were arrested at 5 am or something like that. I just kind of assumed at 5 am on a Saturday the decision to break into unoccupied Pi Phi, except for the house mom, was brought to us by the letters L-I-Q-U-O-R. Since they are both 19 that would be another charge but with felony burglary an MIP isn't really worth the court's time. Since they are 19 there could be something from before 18 that could come back and be a bigger problem if they had a special situation for previous issues that was a condition of straightening up and flying right.

lol!

What does it say at the the bottom of the first pic? It looks like "Kim Jew", but that doesn't make any sense.

Probably the photographer's name?

Yup, that's it.

www.kimjew.com

Breaking into sorority houses, regardless of the intent, reminds me of serial killer Ted Bundy's crime spree that took place after sneaking into a sorority house.

Just reading the accounts is enough to put images in your head, not to mention if you had seen the tv movie.

As a woman, one of my biggest fears is someone breaking into my house while I sleep. Whether it's done as a prank or any other reason doesn't matter. I live too close to a family who lost two teenaged daughters and their mothers to a home invasion not to fear the worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alumiyum (Post 2057884) IMO it's not about Greeks or boys...more "kids will be kids". And kids do dumb shit. They should be punished, they should be sent the message that there's no excuse for it, but for things like this (where it's pretty obvious they were just being morons) it shouldn't ruin their futures.

College students are young adults. They’re not kids. I stole a few pieces of candy when I was younger. I lied repeatedly. I climbed onto the roof of my elementary school when I was 16 and was almost arrested. And I learned to cut it out once I hit college. At what point do people start being held accountable for their actions?

We make excuses for college students all the time on this site, but it’s always something along the lines of, “Well, it’s recruitment, and 18-year-old girls can be very superficial..” or “Chapters sometimes don’t see the big picture when electing a president..” etc. But picking a sorority because all of the sisters are “cute” and choosing a president because he’s popular doesn’t compare to breaking and entering. A line has to be drawn.

And what about this story made it obvious that they were just being morons? Besides the awesome excuse the guys gave for breaking in..?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2057885) As you said upthread, your campus didn't call the police every time something was stolen.

My campus wasn’t notified every time something was stolen, and no one employed by the campus caught them.

When I was in school, during a party, a few members of one of the sororities stole a fraternity’s lawn gnome that they had in the living room, and left a ransom note. THAT’s obviously a prank… a prank that wasn’t reported to the police by the fraternity.

However, I would expect that had that fraternity seriously felt like they were robbed (maybe not over the gnome, but instead, something of more value), I wouldn’t blame them for contacting the authorities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2058002) It really depends on what the relationship was between these two groups as to whether it was a "harmless" prank.

So… the guys who break in from Fraternity ABC can get away with it, but the guys who break in the next night from Fraternity XYZ should be punished?

You fall into a very gray area if this approach is taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 2058095) Let's just say if I were to ever prank someone or someones I'd actually want them to find out so I could see their reaction and then have a good laugh and wait for my turn. I'm the kind of person to leave clues, a "ransom note" and identify myself somehow. I sure as hell wouldn't break in or destroy anything, nor would I surprise someone alone right before dawn. Not that our house moms would be carrying concealed weapons due to our insurance policies but in general I assume people are armed and I'd like to avoid getting shot as well as breaking the law.

Exactly.

And forget about weapons… what happened if the house mother completely freaked out and had a heart attack and died? Things can go VERY wrong in these types of situations, regardless of the fraternity members’ intentions.

I know if I was in that house and awake while that was happening, I’d be freaking out and calling the police. I think anyone would.

In conclusion (finally! :p) … None of us know the whole story, or what the guys really intended to do in that house. But IMO, it’s better to play it safe. Don’t break into ANYONE else’s home, and if you do, expect to pay the consequences.

We treat college students like kids, especially in the Greek system. It's the truth. The rules might be there for liability reasons, but they're also there because "kids do dumb shit". We EXPECT them to do stupid things, because otherwise the rules wouldn't be nearly so extensive (I'm referring to risk management). So do the colleges they attend. Shoot, they can't even legally drink a beer (and in my state 18 year olds can't even buy cigarettes, sign a lease, own property, etc). And if they spend a good majority of college being babysat, we can't expect them to suddenly make adult decisions at all times.

They broke in (and as someone said, likely drunk since it was in the early morning hours and only two of them...not like a big group got together and planned a panty raid or something), looked for "secrets"...there's no reason to believe they were doing anything else. If they came in with baseball bats, that would be one thing. But ruining their futures isn't a proportional response, IMO. Like I said, probation, fines, community service...and the ability to learn their lesson without ruining their lives seems fair to me.

Breaking and entering is not a 'kids will be kids' or purely a risk management scenario. It is a criminal offense. We do expect college students not to commit CRIMES on a regular basis.

Why do they get special consideration of their futures, but not the 20 year old on the street who broke into a house?

"Should be" doesn't = "what will actually happen."

I guarantee you that if all the Pi Phis were dating PiKAs, or if they were trying to get a better relationship going with PiKA to help their campus reputation, this news story would have never seen the light of day.

Not a slight on Pi Phi, the same would most likely apply to any chapter of any sorority.

This is scary stuff. You don't mess around with electricity. You could kill someone and/or burn down the house quite easily. Plus someone will have to pay to repair the damage. There is no "prank" reason to try to cut the electricity.

Kiki, Kiki, Kiki...what were you thinking? SMH. LOL. What kind of name is Kiki?

I wouldnt peg it as a guy's name. I hear that name and think of the woman who was known as "Kiki" from my hometown who was rumored to be a skank among other names.

Reading through all of this I just will say the Justice System is flawed.

I would side with community service though, and some severe fines for the property damage, I wouldn't throw the book at them. The point is everythng should be case by case and we shouldn't paint every issue and every scenario with a broad brush stroke.

College kids are still kids and they are stupid. The fine alone will ride with them and their credit, but don't destroy their ability to make a life in this world by giving them a felony conviction. That just adds to our already uncontrollable justice system.

It's like the five year old charged with sexual harrassment and they were talking about having him register as a sex offender.

Let the punishment fit the crime once we get the complete information.

This is the most likely result, however I have a hard time caring about their futures when 'kids' who don't have the same opportunities face five years in prison for the same offenses.

I figured somebody would make this statement because I thought of it myself.

The issue though is just because justice isn't fair for everyone, does not mean that injustice should be allowed to balance it out. Not saying that if the book is thrown at them it is injustice, just saying for my overall regardless of greek/non-greek, student/nonstudent.

Total tangent, but this is how I felt when Governor Ryan wanted to visit his wife on her deathbed.

I do agree in general, and probation including community service and fines with the possibility of a conditional discharge of the offense upon successful completion is probably a good idea here. However, being upset that the police were involved is a whole other matter.

And if people had been hurt, my reservations about actual sentenced time go away.