NPC adding new council members--do you think it could/will happen?
 

The recent NAFLO and KBG threads made me wonder about this--do you think the NPC would actually be open to accepting a new member group if one or more met the requirements and applied sometime in that not terribly distant future? Considering it's been 60 years since they last expanded, I'm doubtful if anything would actually go through. OTOH, the NPHC did expand with Iota Theta Phi after 60 years of dormancy (yeah, I know they are different lanes and trying to make any generalizations across them is probably not a great idea), so old, long "stable" (read: same member organizations for decades) national councils have expanded in the recent past.

What do you think? Would a hypothetical new NPC group stand a realistic chance at being admitted, and how might any new additions be received ior change the NPC "landscape"?

"Different lanes" but councils and conferences may consider similar things when making such decisions. Here is what came to mind when I read your post:

1. Are there any newer organizations (or older organizations) that want to be a member of NPC and are sustainable and have something substantive in common with the other NPC sororities?

2. Iota Phi Theta was founded in 1963 and joined NPHC in 1997. They had 34 years of longevity and sustainability as an historically and predominantly African American fraternity. The other NPHC orgs joined in 1930 or 1931.

3. The NPHC consists of both historically and predominantly African American fraternities and sororities, of which there are 9. In other words, the context of the Divine 9, a relatively small number of historically and predominantly Black GLOs, is different than that of the NPC's 26 sororities (and NIC's 75 fraternities, including 4 of the 5 NPHC fraternities). That's a lot of sororities and so much that the NPC and NIC are separate conferences, unlike the NPHC.

4. I'm always interested in how organizations withdraw membership from councils and conferences; and how some organizations rejoin councils and conferences. When reading about fraternities that withdrew from NIC, I always wonder what the "disagreement" was.

Unless KBG kicks into super turbo expansion mode, or SAI/GSS/OPA decide they want to go full out social (not that there is any inkling of this happening whatsoever), conventional wisdom is that there will be contraction rather than expansion.

I think that when Kappa Sigma withdrew, part of the complaint was that they were having to pay for lots of NIC-sponsored programs that were duplicates of what they already provided for their members. In other words they were sick of ponying up $$ to finance stuff for the smaller fraternities that couldn't afford it. That's really simplifying it and as I said that's only part of it.

^ that's my thought.

I am thinking and I can't really come up with a sorority that would really fit the NPC profile plus provide national support and be "competitive". In my mind, the sororities that are outside of the NPC sprouted up BECAUSE they weren't NPC, either because of cultural or religious focus or desire to do their own thing.

Further, the NPC has ways of doing things that aren't the way things are done in other sororities...some require a statement of faith to join, others prefer a more NPHC type intake system and small pledge classes. It would take a huge change on the part of one of the two parties in order for it to mesh.

There are certainly sororities that meet NPC criteria for membership. SLG comes to mind, as I mentioned in the NALFO thread. There is also historical precedence for a group that sprouted from a non-NPC mindset later joining the NPC. The question is, what is NPC providing that one of those groups would not? Is there an advantage to being a full member of a CPH? Does NPC do national-level development type activities? Because the flip side is that joining an NPC requires an org to follow a lot of rules they didn't have prior. For what orgs might that be worth it?

I think I remember reading from BootyKBG that at one time KBG was on the path to joining NPC, but then some things changed. It also doesn't help that KBG is retracting and losing chapters to NPC groups. (For their old chapter at Loyola, KBG was not allowed to recolonize it since they were not an NPC and the school decided to have NPC groups only)

I think it would be very difficult for even a well established organization to achieve the momentum needed on many campuses that would be required to "compete" in the NPC game. Recruitment methods, quotas, total, houses being required to survive on many campuses and rules rules rules! :) I can see where many would look at NPC membership as a set of golden handcuffs even in the best of circumstances.

I think it's much more likely that some NPC groups will eventually be absorbed by other NPC groups. It's got to be increasingly challenging in this economic climate for some groups to survive as individual entities in the long run.

Well, that's assuming that they have to compete. There are numerous campuses where SDT just does its own thing, and that's more the model I could see one of the Latina-founded orgs following.

In terms of particulars, why is the NIC easier for Alpha Phi Alpha (and two of the other NPHC fraternities) to join than the NPC is for Sigma Gamma Rho (or the other three NPHC sororities). Is it the standardly unified rush concept that NPC has at most schools?

There might be rules which apply to NPC rush groups which the other GLO's don't want to abide by, and by rules, I mean dress codes and things of that nature.

I think dress codes woyld be the LEAST of the rules worries. Besides, other than competing with the other sororities that do wear matching clothes during rush, there is no NPC "dress code".

I think this is interesting. I don't have an opinion, except that I think it would be interesting to watch a new sorority grow and change over time, as well as what they would do for NPC. The NPC sororities have changed so much in terms of who they accept and what they do, I think it would be interesting to see how a Latina or gay or some other sorority would change the mix of the larger consortium.

At my school, there's a dress code during rush week, which all the sisters in the sororities have to comply to.
There's other stuff they have to do, but seeing as I'm not a member of one of the social sororities, most of the stuff I have is hearsay.

That's an individual case at one university that would really have zero effect on SAI making a national decision to join NPC. Besides, if SAI became part of the CPH, which they would have to do if they became NPC, they would get a say in things like rush week dress code - which is campus-specific policy that can be changed.

Gamma Sig is constitutionally co-ed, so I'm pretty sure that they would never join the NPC (and for various other reasons, as well).

As an outsider, I would think that would be part of it. In broader terms, I would guess it has to do with the very different natures of the NIC and the NPC. It seems to me that the NIC exists mainly to advocate for the interests of its members, to engage in PR for the fraternity system in general and to provide educational programming for its members. So far as I know, it doesn't engage much in any regulations as to how member organizations will operate (for example, regarding rush or expansion). Through things like Unanimous Agreements, on the other hand, the NPC seems to be more involved in deciding as a group how its member fraternities/sororities will operate and cooperate. Does that seem on target?


FWIW, here's an earlier thread on this subject: Future NPC sororities. Sometning tells me there's at least one other thread on this as well.

The NPHC orgs consider ourselves to be service organizations first and foremost, with a social aspect.

As far as the rush concept, I can only speculate that it has more to do with historical reasons versus anything technical like quotas, totals and having a house.

Also, I think that the idea of NPHC sororities joining the NPC would be rejected. For the NPHC, it is not just joining a sorority per se, it is seen as becoming part of a legacy in an org that has very strong family traditions, and in some cases, expectations. I think the nature and structure of the NPHC sororities is so ingrained and is such a major part in AfAm society, that I don't see it changing or even wanting to change.

This is just my opinion, and any other NPHCer can correct me, or weigh in if they want to.

This can also be very NPC.

Wouldn't this be true of the four NPHC fraternities that are also members of the NIC, though? Or is there a difference between NPHC fraternities and NPHC sororities in this respect?

Based on the way you described the NIC, they don't seem to have as rigid a structure as the NPC, so for the NPHC fraternities that are part of the NIC it may not be a "big deal" to be a member. Meaning, being a member of the NIC will not hinder or change any aspect of being a member of the NPHC.

On the other hand, the NPC has very specific rules about their member organizations to the point where I would think it may have a strong hindrance and change to how the NPHC sororities would function. And, like I said, just the fact that I don't think many older (read monied ;)) NPHC members will want to embrace the NPC.

Yeah, I know. I just did not know how else to describe it. :o

I don't think they would either. The Unanimous Agreements of the NPC would probably change quite a few things for NPHC organizations should they choose to join. City wide chapters would not be allowed under NPC guidelines, I'm pretty sure. The format of recruitment is soooo different, and the UAs were set up to prevent the larger organizations from outpacing the smaller organizations with less resources. Unfortunately, this does make for a lot of restrictions. It works for us, but I don't see that all the rules would be attractive to organizations who have been very successful under their own power for 100 years or so.

Yes!!

Gotcha. Thanks.

I agree with MysticCat, sigmadiva, and AOIIAngel.

I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council. Off the top of my head, Theta Nu Xi and Alpha Omega Epsilon both meet the criteria. Others meet the size requirements, but have citywide chapters.

From the MOI:

Requirements for Membership
A women’s fraternity must have been established in its national character for
a minimum of 13 years; all of its collegiate chapters must be established in
senior colleges and universities authorized to confer bachelor degrees and
recognized by the appropriate regional association of colleges and
universities; and it must have at least 14 chapters, of which the latest
established is at least two years old.

First, not all NPHC chapters are city-wide. A few are, but most are on "traditional" college campuses. For SGR in particular, there was a push a few years ago to permanently close our city-wide chapters.

Second, based on the criteria above, NPHC sororities could meet the NPC requirements.

The issue is that would the NPHC sororities want to join the NPC, and that answer more than likely would be no. We would have to make some changes to how we do things and I don't see us doing that. At all. Ever. No how. No way.

I don't see why another sorority would want to join NPC. What does NPC have to offer them?

Frankly, I doubt that the NPC would want to accept the NPHC groups either.

This could get ugly quickly.

It does not have to.

I think the last few posters (myself included) are dancing around the race issue.

Speaking for Alpha Omega Epsilon while we do meet the criteria, I don't think we'd want to lose the engineering/hard sciences and professional focus we'd give up to join the NPC. We are a part of the Professional Fraternity Association (along with SAI, TBS, KPsi, DSP, etc....) though.

I wasn't talking about race.

I was talking about the local vs. National debate.

Oh okay!

But I was.

This raises an interesting question. Would a group like AOE have to give up a focus like that? There are groups in the NIC with focus on a particular area of study: Triangle, Alpha Gamma Rho, FarmHouse and maybe one or two others. Would NPC by-laws or policies prohibit that?

I think since (correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i read it somewhere) that NPC groups can't discriminate based on anything but gender, it would force us to broaden our focus.

I don't believe any policies would prohibit this.

However, with a focus on students in a particular major/area of study, I would think that recruitment would pose the largest issues.

Because NIC fraternities don't (usually) participate in any kind of formal recruitment, and take on a more COB-like style of recruiting, it aligns better with fraternities that are based around a particular area of study.

The groups that people have been mentioning I don't think would be considered local, they have quiet a few chapters.

I don't think they would be required to, but I don't think our style of recruitment lends itself to "focuses". I think it would end up playing out like chapters of SDT/AEPhi that are still largely Jewish, even though it's not a requirement to join. It could also become stigma-like...only instead of the fat/nerd/party house, it's the *focus* house.

I also think it would make a difference if the focus was a required aspect of membership. If you can ONLY take certain majors/minors as opposed to being made up of largely certain majors, I would think that would come into play when NPC votes to grant membership.

Would you currently not let anyone outside of the engineering/hard science major join?

I think being part of NPC would not make you broaden your focus. I know on our campus AEPhi still holds a strong Jewish focus but does not limits itself to only Jewish students.