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DreamfulOne 11-17-2001 08:40 AM

Clinton Whitewashed By Media Just Like African-Americans
 
Barbara Reynolds
TBWT Contributor

In a major tour de force former Bill Clinton delivered a speech at Georgetown University on November 7 that even had me agreeing that he really is the closet soul brother author Toni Morrison had labeled him.

Clinton went out on a limb that even some high-visible blacks have not followed in this era of patriotic flag-waving. Among the eyebrow-lifting statements he made in his 45-minute speech to the university's School of Foreign Service:

As a nation, we are still paying for how "this country once looked the other way when significant numbers of Native Americans were dispossessed and killed to get their land or the mineral rights or because they were thought of as less than human."


Here in the United States, "we were founded as a nation that practiced slavery and slaves were quite frequently killed even though they were thought of as less than fully human."


"In the first Crusade, when the Christian soldiers took Jerusalem, they first burned a synagogue with 300 Jews in it and proceeded to kill every woman and child who was a Muslim on the Temple Mount.... that story is still being told in the Middle East and we are still paying for it."
Pretty bold wasn't it? Well, most Americans never heard it or read about it because much of the American media either did not cover Clinton's speech, or if they covered it, they failed to include the statements addressing slavery or Native Americans, or distorted it.

CNN covered the speech. On its website, CNN lifted up Clinton's rhetoric about the world being in a "struggle for the soul of the 21st Century," and how there is a great need for a debate with the Muslim world over its values versus the values of the West. Yet there was not a word about what America has learned from its past terrorizing of African-Americans and people of color.

I was amazed to find that a speech of such magnitude given right under the nose of the liberal Washington Post was only given five lines at the bottom of a TV column, but no reporting on the event. The paper's ombudsman, Mike Getler, admitted in print on Nov. 16 that the paper should have covered it, but gave no explanation why it didn't. My phone call and e-mails requesting an explanation were summarily ignored.

The conservative Washington Times was one of the few newspapers in America to cover the speech and they covered it as Clinton was a soul brother like James Brown. The reporter made certain the readers knew Clinton was wearing an orange tie and arrived 45 minutes late. They did quote what Clinton said about people of color, but reminded everyone that while in office Clinton had lied, as if to suggest that he was probably lying now.

Why am I so bothered about this? When the media will censure a former president of the United States apparently because they don't like his history lesson, then we know they cannot be trusted to include African-Americans in their coverage unless we wrap ourselves in the flag and dance to Yankee Doodle Dandy.

All Clinton was saying is what many African-Americans and people of color feel but had no outlet to express. We are no strangers to terror. Slavery, lynching, land-grabs, the KKK have made terrorism against blacks and Hispanics an All-American past time.

In a much kinder and gentler way the Harlem-based ex-president brought to mind what Harlemite Malcolm X had said about "the chickens coming home to roost."

And when the chickens come home to roost they crap on everyone, the just and the unjust. So it seems to me all Americans should be invested in understanding what role our past foreign policy has played in our current dilemma.

In effect that was the message Bill Clinton tried to get across. Too bad the media don't want to hear it.

Poplife 11-18-2001 02:10 AM

Oh Lord
 
:mad:

First of all, let me say that I read about Clinton's little speech in the Times and the Post. I was on the train at the time, and everyone was looking at me like I had lost my mind. I guess I should have kept my laughing to a minimum.

Clinton was one of the most clever presidents of all time. He managed to pimp black people and not only did we not realize it, but we applauded him for doing it!

Ol' Bill acted like he loved some colored people...until it was time to give money and pass laws. White women and gays flourished under Clinton. However, name one civil rights bill that was passed during his reign as president. Black people did not gain much during his administration, but we sure did love him. Look, he's playing golf with some black people! Look he's eating at a black owned restaurant! Look, he appointed black people to some positions. Oh man, he must like us!

Uh, no, he's playing us. Sometimes black people can be so gullible! Can we please look at facts and not at song and dance, which is what Clinton did for us for 8 years? He appointed many blacks, but to what positions? Low level BS jobs. It's funny how a damn REPUBLICAN was the first president to appoint a BLACK FEMALE as national security advisor. He spent much time kissing black azz during his campaign, but what happened to all those sweet words once he got a cushy spot in the oval office?

My bestfriend actually said that she wished Bill was still in office during the whole bin Laden thing, because "Bush is stupid". Well, I'll admit, the man is not the most articulate fellow, but at least he is smart enough to surround himself with intelligent people. We cannot forget that the USA is a democracy. That means the power is SPREAD to various elected officials.

The Osama bin Laden thing STARTED when Clinton was in office. The WTC was bombed in 1993 when Clinton was in office. Two US embassies were bombed almost simultaneously when Clinton was in office (hmm does that technique seem familiar??). A US ship was attacked by terrorist during the Clinton administration. And what was done about it?? Nothing. No wonder bin Laden thought he could attack is and get away with it. He did it four times before.

Now he's at it again by claming that America is paying for the sins of the father. And if he's so smart, where the hell did he get the idea that African Slavery and the killing and abuse of Natives is on the same line as terrorist activities? Name one country that didn't have slavery or kill mass amounts of people. I'd like to know why is he comparing his own relatives to that of bin Laden. And if he liked us so much, then why didn't he help US the same way he did others?

Harlem-based? WTF? Was that not his SECOND choice from the million dollar complex in Manhattan he wanted. He couldn't get his wish so he decided to get a cheaper place and get in good with the negro's by moving to Harlem. And isn't white interest in Harlem that same reason many 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation families are being run out because they can no longer afford the rent?

To be frank, when are we going to stop swinging on Willie's willie? The man is not all that, never was, and never will be.

DoggyStyle82 11-18-2001 03:09 AM

POPLIFE

I don't understand your post one bit!!

In the past, you have gone on and on about Black Businesses. Black businesses, empowerments zones, and access to capital went up astronomically under Clinton. Black business ownership and home ownership skyrocketed under his administration.

You say Clinton didn't appoint any Blacks to any significant positions? The Sec of Agriculture has the largest budget and the most discetionary spending of all cabinet positions. Clinton appointed a Black man, Mike Epps, to that position, and the Republicans were so upset by that that they spent his entire 8yr term trying to get him on accepting a few thounsand dollars worth of gifts.

Codoleeza Rice? Yeah Bush appointed her, and what is the first thing she did? Deny her Blackness (in so many words) and say that there is no need for affirmative action. Colin Powell (whom I like), but when he had a chance to prove something to AAs, he decided to boycott the Racism Summitt. So are Bushes Black appointees doing us any good?

As far as Bin Laden, he was created by George Bushes Sr CIA. The Bush family still does business with the Bin Laden family through the Carlyle Group. Clinton bombed Bin Laden in 1998 after the embassy bombings. The heads of the CIA and FBI during Clinton's admin were holdovers from Bush Sr. What does that say?

Yeah, Harlem was his second choice, but it was his choice and he is there. Clinton will always be Slick Willie and he is not an "honarary" Black person, but lets not re-invent history.

One last thing, wasn't Clinton the best prez ever for gays and lesbians?

Poplife 11-18-2001 10:28 PM

Hmm
 
Well, I'm sorry that you didn't understand my post.

Yes I go on and on, and it's really because Black people are going nowhere in the country. Everyone is surpassing us economicaly, socially, and politically. Hispanic people are working on making the system work for them and 30% of them don't speak English!

If you really did your reserch you would see that even though Black Business's did okay under Bill's era, it was not due to a direct action by him.

The republicans did not try and get Epps because he was black. They tried to get him because he was a democrat. They tried to get Clinton when they push for impeachment.

You need to stop thinking that every republican is a rascist. They are about money, plain and simple. They just nod and smile to the other stuff like abortion and affirmative action, but really all they care about is protecting their money. When you get onto a certain level, it's not about black and white. It's about green. However, if you have never been on that level then you would not realize this. Let me ask you this: Have you ever seen a poor black republican?

The new head of the Justice Department is a black republican...he is also a millionaire. The head of the Civil Rights division is the same. Most rich people in general are republicans. Shoot, if I was making 4 million a year you better bet that I'd be a damn republican, and I hate politics! But I do love money and I will vote what ever way I must in order to protect those dollars.

Many blacks believe there is no need for affirmative action. Why should every one black be for affirmative action? So what if she doesn't like it? The point is, she is the first black female security advisor and I'm thrilled! Did you really expect an Al Sharpton type to get the job? She's got her foot in the door for more blacks and that is what we need. Right now, beliefs are secondary.

I see it this way. My friend is the president of her sorority chapter and she's the shyt. She is also a 3rd generation member and her mom is the most known XYZ member in the town. But she insists that those facts have nothing to do with her being voted in as president. Does that make her any less of a member? She's doing a good job, isn't she? Who cares how she got there, right?

"One last thing, wasn't Clinton the best prez ever for gays and lesbians?"

Uh, I think I said that. But I care more about blacks than I do gays of any color. People still see a niccer when I walk down the street.

AKAtude 11-19-2001 11:51 AM

Re: Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Poplife
People still see a niccer when I walk down the street.
Well, Bill couldn't help any of us in that department. :rolleyes:

DoggyStyle82 11-20-2001 06:59 PM

POPLIFE

You have much to learn about life and political realities. All Republicans are not reach nor about the money. Many poor catholics and fundamentalists are Reps because of abortion, many to oppose affirmative action, many because they are pro-military, many because they are just plain conservative and anti-liberal, anti-gay, etc.

Any Black person in a prominent position is good? Not really my sister Sometimes they do the most harm, ex. Ward Connerly. Condoleeza Rice nor Colin Powell have cabinet positions where they can effect the lives or income potential of AAs directly, unlike Clinton's Black appointees.

To say that you would be a Rep if you had money is ridiculous. Does the amount of money you have in your wallet determines your values? If so, that is very shallow and seemingly incongrous with your frequent Black Nationalist, feminist rhetoric of previous posts. Thats where my confusion comes in. I did not know that your values were for sale.

PositivelyAKA 11-20-2001 07:27 PM

PositivelyAKA
 
well said bruh, well said.

Poplife 11-21-2001 09:26 AM

I have much to learn about many things, but with my background Politics is not one of them. Trust me on that. It may seem that way to you, but what I believe and think comes from years of seeing and hearing things that can't always be read or seen in the Post, Times, Afro, ABC, PBS, or even CNN.

Yes, there are many poor, fundamentalist, Catholic Repub's. I went to high school AND college with that kind, I so know they exists. However, they are not the wheel and gears of the Republican party. The rich men are the ones making the rules. Just look at their biggest platform topics.

Republicans are all about big business. How well do you think a poor person does in the shadow of a major corporation? Republicans are also about little or no government assistance with things that people might depend on, such as affirmative action, welfare, Medicaid, unemployment, etc. How well do you think a poor person would fare under that idea?

Does my money compromise my values? No. But why do you assume I disagree with the Republican party? I might like their platform for all you know. And why do you think politics is what's driving me. I have strong political views, I can't help that. I was born into it.

And there are something's I like. Being that my father is a multiple business owner, he plans on leaving a good inheritance for my mother and sister, and the business's to me. Why would I let someone allow almost HALF of the money my mother depends on to get her by to be taken through taxing? He worked ALL HIS LIFE to accumulate what he did. And I feel that it's a spit in all out faces to just TAKE half as if he owed them something.

I just feel that if I bust my butt to get something, I should have the right to keep it. It's that simple. If you want to hand over your money to the feds to pay to immunize illegal aliens and allow people to drive BMW's while they collect welfare then that's fine.

If you don't realize that wealth is power than you too have a lot to learn. Money talks louder than protesting and even voting ever will. It's sad but true, but we do what we have to do. I have come to the conclusion the best way to help my own people is to become wealthy, get with those like me, and basically FORCE people to recognize that my people need to be recognized. Politicians are puppets. They will dance for whoever has the money to buy their strings. Sadly, those people are usually white men. But everyone else seems to know that having serious finances put you right into the game. Why do you think every Arab and Asian immigrant has some sort of business? They know what's up. Hispanics are even starting to play. So when are blacks going to make a move? Shoot, in 20 years I bet you financial status will out rank wealth. It seems to be heading that way.

But hey, like the songs says, "A change is gonna come."


Quote:

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
POPLIFE

You have much to learn about life and political realities. All Republicans are not reach nor about the money. Many poor catholics and fundamentalists are Reps because of abortion, many to oppose affirmative action, many because they are pro-military, many because they are just plain conservative and anti-liberal, anti-gay, etc.

Any Black person in a prominent position is good? Not really my sister Sometimes they do the most harm, ex. Ward Connerly. Condoleeza Rice nor Colin Powell have cabinet positions where they can effect the lives or income potential of AAs directly, unlike Clinton's Black appointees.

To say that you would be a Rep if you had money is ridiculous. Does the amount of money you have in your wallet determines your values? If so, that is very shallow and seemingly incongrous with your frequent Black Nationalist, feminist rhetoric of previous posts. Thats where my confusion comes in. I did not know that your values were for sale.


AKAtude 11-21-2001 12:49 PM

Well, then, maybe one day you'll consider running for office, and become a new kind of politician. Good luck.

lovelyivy84 11-21-2001 02:06 PM

Democrats have been conning the black community for decades!

They SAY they want to address our isssues, take our support for granted and then turn around once elected and do nada (and sometimes it bites them in the butt, look at how many blacks voted for Bloomberg in NYC).

Anyone look at the DNC and the RNC last year? Both looked the same to me- rich and white. The DNC just had better bands.

Poplife is absolutely right about one thing. Politics ain't about black or white, it's about green.

DoggyStyle82 11-21-2001 05:58 PM

POPLIFE

You are too funny, and your vision of politics is very elementary. Yes, money rules politics, plain and simple, but the game is what you do not recognize. What Black Republican do you know that has created wealth for anybody else. Once they have one of their white benefactors help them out of the barrel, they turn around and close the lid. Your post was exactly about what Reps are about : SELF. I'm going to get mine, hook or crook, make sure I keep it, keep others from the opportunity (Hispanics, Koreans, immigrants) and save affirmative action for only my kind (the power of inheritance). Non-rich people don't work hard, immigrants have no right to the American dream? You sound like Rush Limbaugh talking about welfare queens and such. Yeah Reps are about the bucks, but Bush won because poor and middle class people voted for him, not just the rich 10% who run things. Why, because Reps make the white man feel threatened by the exact things that you enumerated. Let me give you a real political reality check.

This war is not about Bin Laden. He provides a good cover. It is about opening up central asia for an oil pipeline that has to go from Russia thru Afghanistan. Why do you think Russia is so eager to partner with the U.S in ousting the Taliban?

What man and what company benefitted the most from Bush Sr's war with Iraq? Why, our very own V.P Dick Cheney. The Enron company spent millions to get Bush Jr. elected. Guess which company got the biggest tax break due to 9/11?

When the stock market crashed after 9/11, Bush changed the stock market rules to allow private stockholders to purchase larger shares than allowed under SEC rules. Of course they bought stock dirt cheap when the market reopened and viola', one month later when the market stabilized, the million shares they bought at $2 are now worth $40 a share.

Poplife, who has benefitted here? Yeah, we got our $300 tax rebate, yeah, they're rolling back affirmative action, yeah, they will dismantle welfare and cater to your hot buttons, but who is getting over like a fat rat, while you play the blame game that Rush Limbaugh has popularized. Look up the word "obfuscation" and you will realize that the Reps have hijacked yours and other working class Reps emotions and used them to line their pockets.

One last thing, the reason you have not seen Dick Cheney is because he's behind the scenes plotting the strategy that gets their Carlyle Group friends more money (real money).

Poplife 11-21-2001 06:43 PM

Thanks
 
Quote:

Originally posted by lovelyivy84
Democrats have been conning the black community for decades!

They SAY they want to address our isssues, take our support for granted and then turn around once elected and do nada (and sometimes it bites them in the butt, look at how many blacks voted for Bloomberg in NYC).

Anyone look at the DNC and the RNC last year? Both looked the same to me- rich and white. The DNC just had better bands.

Poplife is absolutely right about one thing. Politics ain't about black or white, it's about green.


LOL@the better bands.

Well I'm glad you understand some of my points. It's nice to know some people know the truth.

Poplife 11-21-2001 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKAtude
Well, then, maybe one day you'll consider running for office, and become a new kind of politician.
My political philosophy may not be popular among blacks, but I assure you it's not new. :)

AKAtude 11-21-2001 07:09 PM

I wasn't referring to your philosophies, but the way you would go about doing business.

Poplife 11-21-2001 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKAtude
I wasn't referring to your philosophies, but the way you would go about doing business.
Oh I see.

Still, that's not new. I've been inspired. :)

AKAtude 11-21-2001 07:19 PM

It may not be new, but it obviously isn't seen enough.

Poplife 11-21-2001 08:26 PM

Ralph Boyd himself offered me a job in his office and you call my politics elementary? And you think my statements are funny? Hmm.

I am not a bleeding heart. I don't see any reason why ANYONE should be on public assistance for years at a time. I believe people should take initiative to make something of themselves. Allowing someone to literally make a living off of unemployment contradicts the idea of doing for self, which is what as a black man who feels he knows his stuff, should understand.

There is nothing wrong with having a helping hand (in the way your line brothers probably helped you). But to allow someone to totally depend on an outside source robs them of their self worth, self sufficiency, and initiative. That's basic psychology, not bigotry. Do I believe in public assistance? Yes, I do. However I feel that it should only be temporary for the reasons I stated above.

As far as the immigrant thing, where did you get all that? I was merely stating that it seems as though every other race is making the system work for them. I want Blacks to be advancing like the others. That's all. No more. It's done. I've spoken. I don't care about affirmative action. I didn't not need it to get into my private high school because you apply with numbers in place of a name (ethnic names tip you off), and they don't interview you unless you are a transfer. I certainly didn't need it to get into my HBCU. Maybe someone else used it, but I didn't, and therefore do not care who does. When my Arab friend got fired on Sept 14 I was the first one to pressure her to go the EEOC. I will testify on her behalf in the spring. An Asian woman helped me get me my new job. I am glad she has since been promoted. My bestfriend is half Puerto Rican and I love her and her people. I am glad to see them doing so well. Please stop adding things in to make a point because you're dead wrong. Politically I maybe be afro-centric, but in everyday life I thoroughly enjoy various cultures and the people that are linked to them. I take great pride in knowing a lot about them and will continue to travel and expand my knowledge of others who are not like me.

I really don't care why people voted for Bush. He's in there for four years and will probably go for eight, so the best I can do is work with the system I've got. Sometimes, it's not about how or why someone got where they are. It's about finding a way to make them work for you. So Bush he is prioritizing his own company? Any president would do the same. Shoot, any person in power would do the same for his or her company if they could. It's called being human. Life ain't fair.

You accuse me of playing a game. I'm not sure if it's the one that is making my life so good, but if it is I will play it 'till I die. I do for self first and other's next. I'm not ashamed to say so because it's that philosophy that keeps me from becoming dependent on a system that will never willingly cater to me.

You compare me to Rush Limbaugh because you are ignorant. You may be well informed by your standards, but my standard of being informed are much higher. For me, being truly informed means that you have analyzed everything with an unbiased eye. This includes the idea's and systems that we are conditioned to be against from birth.

Three years ago I used to think just like you until my father (a member of the independent party) taught me that blacks that thought like you were the ones that are constantly being left behind without even noticing. When I looked at all the professional people in my life I saw that he was right. In fact I don't know one Black Millionaire (or wealthy black person) that thinks like you.

These same blacks that have essentially been disowned by the black community for their political affiliation are the same ones giving to millions NAACP and UNCF. The president of my school is a black republican, and I attend a major HBC. He raised 2 times the goal for funding last year, fought to get more black students in media internships stating that we needed to see more black faces, and openly encourages blacks to do for self. Yet, you say they turn on their own people and shut the door in their face. You only display your ignorance when you say things like that.

You wanted me to name some black republicans that have helped other's make money. I know quite a few, but you have to realize that even if I named them, it wouldn't mean much to you because only two or three are very public figures. There are many everyday black people that happen to be republicans and are very pro-black. Believing that all black Repub.'s are like Alan Keys shows how little exposure you have and how hijacked YOUR mind is. You can't even see that the democrats don't want you in their party. They cater to you to get votes, not because they have your best interest at heart. They promise everything and deliver nothing because that's what they think we deserve. When we are no longer the biggest (ahem, LEGAL) minority, they will drop us and sing and dance for whomever is next in line.

You obviously get much of your information from the democratically dominated media, which is typical for black people. I get my information from MEETING, OBSERVING, and having MEANINGFUL CONVERSATIONS with these people. In some cases I am related to them.

My aunt made partner in her million dollar law firm up in NYC 3 years ago. My uncle (her husband) owns a successful BMW dealership in New Jersey. They fight everyday to get more black interns. They are republicans. Another uncle owns a hotel and an apartment complex in Nevada and is an optometrist (how the hell he does that is beyond me). All his managers are black and he once held out on partnering with another optometrist until he could find another black person to share his name and his office space. He is a republican. My dad and mom's good friend is now the VP for the EC division of Verizon. Guess who he is hiring a lot of. Guess what political affiliation he has.

Quote:

Look up the word "obfuscation" and you will realize that the Reps have hijacked yours and other working class Reps emotions and used them to line their pockets.
*lol* First of all, what makes you think I'm from a working class family? Second of all how do you know I'm not one of the people who's daddy is having his pockets lined? Assumptions are not becoming.

Once again, please remember EVERY black person is NOT like you socially, politically, or financially. Not every black person thinks like you, nor should they. You can down my defense of the few Republican politics I like all you want, but financially they have helped me and I'm not talking about your silly little $300 dollars. Like I said, you can make people work for you if you can get to their strings.

And FYI, I'm not a republican. I only vote republican when it comes to personal assets and government minimizing. Other than that I am all over the board. I guess me being informed threw you off. That can happen when you have blinders on.





Quote:

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
POPLIFE

You are too funny, and your vision of politics is very elementary. Yes, money rules politics, plain and simple, but the game is what you do not recognize. What Black Republican do you know that has created wealth for anybody else. Once they have one of their white benefactors help them out of the barrel, they turn around and close the lid. Your post was exactly about what Reps are about : SELF. I'm going to get mine, hook or crook, make sure I keep it, keep others from the opportunity (Hispanics, Koreans, immigrants) and save affirmative action for only my kind (the power of inheritance). Non-rich people don't work hard, immigrants have no right to the American dream? You sound like Rush Limbaugh talking about welfare queens and such. Yeah Reps are about the bucks, but Bush won because poor and middle class people voted for him, not just the rich 10% who run things. Why, because Reps make the white man feel threatened by the exact things that you enumerated. Let me give you a real political reality check.

This war is not about Bin Laden. He provides a good cover. It is about opening up central asia for an oil pipeline that has to go from Russia thru Afghanistan. Why do you think Russia is so eager to partner with the U.S in ousting the Taliban?

What man and what company benefitted the most from Bush Sr's war with Iraq? Why, our very own V.P Dick Cheney. The Enron company spent millions to get Bush Jr. elected. Guess which company got the biggest tax break due to 9/11?

When the stock market crashed after 9/11, Bush changed the stock market rules to allow private stockholders to purchase larger shares than allowed under SEC rules. Of course they bought stock dirt cheap when the market reopened and viola', one month later when the market stabilized, the million shares they bought at $2 are now worth $40 a share.

Poplife, who has benefitted here? Yeah, we got our $300 tax rebate, yeah, they're rolling back affirmative action, yeah, they will dismantle welfare and cater to your hot buttons, but who is getting over like a fat rat, while you play the blame game that Rush Limbaugh has popularized. Look up the word "obfuscation" and you will realize that the Reps have hijacked yours and other working class Reps emotions and used them to line their pockets.

One last thing, the reason you have not seen Dick Cheney is because he's behind the scenes plotting the strategy that gets their Carlyle Group friends more money (real money).


Poplife 11-21-2001 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKAtude
It may not be new, but it obviously isn't seen enough.
True.

AKAtude 11-22-2001 12:23 AM

However, I forgot to mention I agree with DoggieStyle on this one.

DoggyStyle82 11-22-2001 08:48 PM

POPLIFE

Taking a little break from my Thanksgiving repast and polite dinner conversation, lo and behold, what do I see;

Poplife, do myself and the readers of this forum a favor. If you are going to argue a point, it would behoove you to put the information from your 4th post in your 1st one, then a reader could understand posts 1 thru 3 and why you take the positions that you do. When debating, one can only go by information that is presented, not info that is withheld.

Speaking of assumptions, I never stated that I was a Dem, a liberal, or a proponent of social welfare programs. I also never stated that individual Black Republicans do not help Blacks. I said that Bushes Black appointees were in no position to influence policies that would help Blacks and elected ones like J.C. Watts have to do the bidding of their white benefactors.

Also, it doesn't matter what your registration is, if you vote Rep, then you're Rep.

Working class relates to those whose income comes from working rather than investments as the major source of income. But if you and your family are independently wealthy, more power to you.

If anyone is familiar with your posts, you have always come across as anti-Korean and Hispanic. Down with the masses, buy Black, wear an afro-centric hairstyle, eff the system person. Now, all of a sudden, you have Multi-cultural friends, defender of the opressed minority, "I'm a get mine, if you 're not successful you must be lazy", type of person. One minute you make it seem as if your family will go hungry because Black folks aint got the good sense to buy Black, next minute, your whole family and errbody Black you know are rich as hell.

BTW, you never addressed the gist of my response. Instead, you resorted to demagougery and obfuscation (trademarks of the Republican platform) Complain about the 10 people cheating welfare for $20k/yr, when corporate welfare is in the billions. Again, either I'm confused or either you do not know how to properly provide a cogent foundation for a proper debate.

pretty3grl 11-23-2001 01:11 AM

I must say that I also agree with Doggystyle on this one. What can I say, I'm from Texas. I have seen the Bushies in action for far too long. Poplife, you have a right to make your points, and I will listen to them, but I am a teacher, so obviously there a many things more important to me than money. Clinton may be phoney (so was Regan, Nixon, Bush Sr., etc.), but I like him and would have voted for him again in a second. I have never voted for Bush, but because I am a Texan, I have lived under his policies (educational, political, financial, ect.), and simply put, he is a moron. The first rule of politics should be "don't show your stupidity in public." Some things should just be left at home. He surrounded himself with good people in Texas, yet he still showed his moronic side quite often (See if you don't take the advice of those you surround yourself with, you still look stupid. It is clear that Bush ad libs during his speeches, and for him, that is a no no). I truly believe that you do not get into politics without being a truly phoney person. None are more real than any others. Bush just looks stupid even when he is being phony, and sadly he governed the educational policy in the "great state" that awarded him a high school diploma (how ironic). Politics is politics is politics, period. I believe that you vote for the person that you prefer, yet realize that no matter what, everyone running is full of chit.
By the way the town of Selma, which has a huge majority of poor, impoverished blacks and high voter turnout voted for a Republican mayor year after year even though he got on national TV during the Civil Rights movement and called MLK Jr. "Martin Luther Coon," and said that blacks were incapable of governing blacks. That's my example of poor black (confused) Republicans. Fortunately, he was voted out of office last year for the first time since the 60's.
Lastly, the Rebublicans got the Black vote for years because it was "the party of Lincoln" although we all know that he was full of chit with the whole "emancipation thing", so both parties have done their share of pimping blacks. Bush's new twist is to give radio addresses in Spanish (ie. pimping Hispanics). To me it's 6 in one hand and a half dozen in the other. I am just not ready (and don't think that I ever will be), to sport an elephant on my chest (pun intended).

Poplife 11-25-2001 04:29 PM

Doggy,

I was able to skim your post from my grandmother's house yesterday, but the fact that she only has one phone line forced me to prioritize.

I'm sorry if you are having trouble understanding me and that you feel I'm repetitive. But like I say, Chinese and Korean sound the same when you don't speak either language.

And yes, some people do think that you can only debate on the information given. I, however, feel that ANY information that is known to either party is eligible to be used. Hey, look at the presidential debates. Besides, this isn't a debate to me. It's a typical dinner conversation at my house.



Quote:


I also never stated that individual Black Republicans do not help Blacks.



Why did you ask me what Black Republicans did I know that were creating wealth for anyone else, and then state that BRs 'close the lid' behind them? No you did not SAY that. Still, asking/saying those things makes what you are thinking obvious.




Quote:

Also, it doesn't matter what your registration is, if you vote Rep, then you're Rep.


Oh really? Well, the KKK believes that blacks should only be with blacks. So do many black people. Are they in with the KKK? It's called mutual agreement on select subjects. Come on now, that's basic!




Quote:

Working class relates to those whose income comes from working rather than investments as the major source of income. But if you and your family are independently wealthy, more power to you.



Nice try, but you are slightly off.

The technical term for 'working class' is people who work for a salary/wages. However when spoken of in social terms it doesn't translate into that idea. The food chain goes as follows (from dirt poor on up).

Lower Class (Trailer park, ghetto)

Lower Middle Class (contains some Blue Collar types like postal workers and trash men)

Middle Middle Class (contains much of the Blue Collar/Working Class folks, but only the slightly more educated types like electricians and public school teachers)

Upper Middle Class (Doctors, lawyers unrelated to a firm, college professors, etc.)

Upper Class (the Michael Douglas in 'Wall Street', the Banks' family from Fresh Prince, the Cosby family. most of the new "money folks" are in this bracket.)

Old Money (basically the folks you mentioned earlier)

Here's a hint for your understanding. Working class people work to provide an income. Upper Middle Class - Upper Class people work to MAINTAIN an income (there is a difference there). Old money folks consider work consulting with their accountants, managers, and other folks that are watching the family business/investments. While at working I one met a millionaire investment banker who worked 17 hours a day. Is he working class? I think not.

I told my family about this conversation while talking about Bush over turkey and collard greens. My dad suggested you should take a peak at "People Like Us: Class in America", which is one of our favorite PBS shows. And I don't say that to be sarcastic. If class interests you peep their site on www.pbs.org

Tell me what you think.



Quote:

If anyone is familiar with your posts, you have always come across as anti-Korean and Hispanic. Down with the masses, buy Black, wear an afro-centric hairstyle, eff the system person. Now, all of a sudden, you have Multi-cultural friends, defender of the opressed minority, "I'm a get mine, if you 're not successful you must be lazy", type of person. One minute you make it seem as if your family will go hungry because Black folks aint got the good sense to buy Black, next minute, your whole family and errbody Black you know are rich as hell.



I won't deny that I can come across as anti-whatever. But you have to realize that I only seem that way to the people that a) Cannot see the issues at hand facing blacks b) REFUSE to see the issues at hand facing blacks or c) Are not in even in a place where they can TRY and see the issues at hand facing blacks.

Buy black? Yes. Wear an afro? If you want to. 'Eff' the system? Sort of. Don't take how it tries to treat you to heart, but do learn how to use it to your advantage. I am not the defender for anything. Defenders make their subject weaker, but teachers make them strong.

BTW, I've ALWAYS had multicultural friends. I get teased for collecting Asian Textiles and watching the Joy Luck Club everyday. People call me a sell out because I want to live in France or Italy. I get questioned about the amount of time I spend at the downtown ethnic arts festivals and gatherings. So?

I assure, you that it is possible to separate the politics from the people. It IS possible to go out with Asian, Arab, and Hispanic friends and enjoy them as individuals and not think if them as a mass. All my friends, even my Asian ones :D, are fully aware of my views. Many of them respect me for it. In the words of my friend Chung: "You not racists. You love black people. I love Chinese people. What's wrong with loving yourself? What's wrong with wanting to see your people go high?"

I'm dramatic. I must be to have you believe my family was really losing out because people didn't want to deal with their own kind. To clear things up let me say this, the issue with blacks not buying blacks hurt our hearts more than our wallets. The store was an investment for my father, not a needed source of income.

Yes, I know a lot of Blacks who are rich. But I know more who are not. The sad fact is, the rich blacks keep getting richer while the poor blacks cover their ears to advice and drown in their own self-pity and debt.




Quote:

BTW, you never addressed the gist of my response. Instead, you resorted to demagougery and obfuscation (trademarks of the Republican platform) Complain about the 10 people cheating welfare for $20k/yr, when corporate welfare is in the billions. Again, either I'm confused or either you do not know how to properly provide a cogent foundation for a proper debate.


I reply to what interests me and if that is confusing than please accept my profound apologies. However, I don't feel obligated by your 'debate' rules.


Peace, Happiness, and Many Thanks for the Intellectual
Intercourse...I was hesitant at first but it didn't hurt a bit. Maybe I'll come back for more.

:p


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