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-   -   Appropriate Sanctions for Recruitment Infractions (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=119579)

GreekGirley 04-26-2011 07:43 PM

Appropriate Sanctions for Recruitment Infractions
 
Looking for creative - yet serious - ideas for sanctions imposed to chapters due to recruitment infractions.

We all know that presenting an 'educational program' does nothing but take up time and that no one ever learns anything new, so we're trying to come up with some new ideas...keeping in mind that sanctions cannot interfere with a chapter's ability to participate in recruitment or achieve quota.

One we've thought of so far is:

*disallow the member who committed the infraction from being present or "speaking" (read: participating with recruiting PNMs during a party) in a certain round(s) of recruitment

Any other ideas out there? Our campus is really having issues with enforcement of recruitment rules, because the punishment never fits the crime. It's too easy to break rules and get away with doing NOTHING for punishment. We're trying to figure out ways to enforce the rules and make the sanction and equal and appropriate response to the action. Thanks!

Kevin 04-26-2011 07:45 PM

Have you considered docking them points for Greek Week/Homecoming (whatever)? If your school is pretty competitive about those things, that could be pretty effective.

33girl 04-26-2011 07:46 PM

We had this thread before - some good ideas in it.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=99271

GreekGirley 04-26-2011 07:53 PM

THANK YOU, 33 girl!! I had not located that thread - appreicate you linking to it!! :)

33girl 04-26-2011 08:39 PM

Just an FYI - if you go down to the bottom of the page there is a list of "similar threads." Sometimes they make sense (like in this case) sometimes not.

Titchou 04-26-2011 09:48 PM

I doubt that you could restrict the woman from participating in recruitment. You might catch some flack from their national organization and NPC.

victoriana 04-26-2011 09:51 PM

At my school, depending on the severity of the infraction, they may take away bids or not allow a chapter to participate in recruitment the following semester.

GreekGirley 04-26-2011 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoriana (Post 2050878)
At my school, depending on the severity of the infraction, they may take away bids or not allow a chapter to participate in recruitment the following semester.

My understanding of NPC regulations is that this is not allowed. Not sure where this came from at your school, but taking away bids is absolutely not a part of any NPC recommendation or guideline. In fact, I believe the exact opposite to be true. Can't tell you the exact page in the Manual of Information or NPC materials, but I KNOW I've read that NPC guidelines do not allow taking spots away from quota or the prohibition of participation in obtaining quota or total (which would include formal recruitment & COB activities).

If I were a collegian at your school, I would challenge this. But, that's just me.

honeychile 04-26-2011 09:57 PM

I haven't seen the latest copy of the Green Book, but AFAIK, nothing can happen which would disallow a chapter from taking quota.

Well, maybe if a gang of sisters hatchet murder another sorority...

DeltaBetaBaby 04-26-2011 10:03 PM

I have seen cases where women were released from the MRABA due to dirty rushing, but they weren't forced out. Big difference.

victoriana 04-26-2011 10:23 PM

We don't use the quota system. Chapters can give out as many bids as they have open spots in their chapter. For example, if chapter ABC has 35 members out of a possible 55, they can give out 20 bids. If chapter XYZ has 50 members, they can only give out 5 bids. I'm not 100% sure on the specifics, but we were informed that taking away bids would be possible. Generally situations aren't severe enough to warrant strict actions like that though. Usually a chapter will be slapped on the wrist and put on probation by Panhellenic. A rush infraction at my school is defined as dirty rushing through breaking the rule of strict silence, talking about membership selection, or breaking party ban. Sorority members aren't allowed to attend any registered parties held by fraternities or be seen at any unregistered parties, regardless if they are held by Greeks or not.

AZ-AlphaXi 04-26-2011 10:57 PM

Per the MOI - in the unanimous agreements section

3. Penalties
Each College Panhellenic shall strive to achieve a fair and reasonable
resolution for infractions. Penalties should be assessed to fit the nature
and degree of the offense.
A. Inappropriate Penalties
1. Monetary fines shall only be acceptable for measurable recruitment
infractions (i.e., late invitation lists, late events, etc). The amounts
shall be predetermined by a vote of the College Panhellenic Council
and stated in the membership recruitment rules.
2. Penalties shall not forbid formal or informal entertainment that is
part of membership recruitment or the observance of an inter/
national fraternity celebration.
3. Penalties shall not affect a fraternity chapter’s Quota or Total.
4. Penalties shall not affect the time of new member acceptance
and/or initiation.
5. Penalties shall not forbid the right of an NPC fraternity to vote in
College Panhellenic meetings.

AOII Angel 04-26-2011 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoriana (Post 2050892)
We don't use the quota system. Chapters can give out as many bids as they have open spots in their chapter. For example, if chapter ABC has 35 members out of a possible 55, they can give out 20 bids. If chapter XYZ has 50 members, they can only give out 5 bids. I'm not 100% sure on the specifics, but we were informed that taking away bids would be possible. Generally situations aren't severe enough to warrant strict actions like that though. Usually a chapter will be slapped on the wrist and put on probation by Panhellenic. A rush infraction at my school is defined as dirty rushing through breaking the rule of strict silence, talking about membership selection, or breaking party ban. Sorority members aren't allowed to attend any registered parties held by fraternities or be seen at any unregistered parties, regardless if they are held by Greeks or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi (Post 2050910)
Per the MOI - in the unanimous agreements section

3. Penalties
Each College Panhellenic shall strive to achieve a fair and reasonable
resolution for infractions. Penalties should be assessed to fit the nature
and degree of the offense.
A. Inappropriate Penalties
1. Monetary fines shall only be acceptable for measurable recruitment
infractions (i.e., late invitation lists, late events, etc). The amounts
shall be predetermined by a vote of the College Panhellenic Council
and stated in the membership recruitment rules.
2. Penalties shall not forbid formal or informal entertainment that is
part of membership recruitment or the observance of an inter/
national fraternity celebration.
3. Penalties shall not affect a fraternity chapter’s Quota or Total.
4. Penalties shall not affect the time of new member acceptance
and/or initiation.
5. Penalties shall not forbid the right of an NPC fraternity to vote in
College Panhellenic meetings.

As you'll see, they can't do that either. You may not have Quota, but you are bidding to Total. If they sanction you by limiting the number of women you can bid, that is expressly violating #3 by limiting your ability to reach Total.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-27-2011 09:12 AM

It sounds like someone on her campus is just making a threat.

33girl 04-27-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2050877)
I doubt that you could restrict the woman from participating in recruitment. You might catch some flack from their national organization and NPC.

This is the way I've interpreted it - that since formal recruitment is a function coordinated and sponsored by Panhellenic, yes you can. Whole chapters have been barred from participating in formal recruitment. However, that isn't the same thing as not being able to recruit at all or take members. It's usually in Panhel's interest not to play this card, as if you bar ABC from formal they are still allowed to informally rush in whatever manner their nationals deem fit. In other words, if they want to take girls to Morton's for steak and then shopping at Coach for a rush party, they can. They don't have to play by the rules of formal rush at ALL.

Pretty much you don't want to open up the wild wild west, because people will go there.

AlphaFrog 04-27-2011 09:25 AM

Why all the legalistic threads all of a sudden (not just this OP)? It's not even rush season.

ETA: I guess it is about the time when all the new, idealistic rush chairs start planning fall rush. ;)

katydidKD 04-27-2011 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2051009)
This is the way I've interpreted it - that since formal recruitment is a function coordinated and sponsored by Panhellenic, yes you can. Whole chapters have been barred from participating in formal recruitment. However, that isn't the same thing as not being able to recruit at all or take members. It's usually in Panhel's interest not to play this card, as if you bar ABC from formal they are still allowed to informally rush in whatever manner their nationals deem fit. In other words, if they want to take girls to Morton's for steak and then shopping at Coach for a rush party, they can. They don't have to play by the rules of formal rush at ALL.

Pretty much you don't want to open up the wild wild west, because people will go there.

Excuse my ignorance, but is the rule "no gifts" not an NPC/informal/COB rule? We don't really have COB on my campus

DeltaBetaBaby 04-27-2011 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katydidKD (Post 2051035)
Excuse my ignorance, but is the rule "no gifts" not an NPC/informal/COB rule? We don't really have COB on my campus

I think you're asking if chapters can give away gifts during COB. The answer is "no".

From the MOI:

All Styles [of recruitment]: No favors or gifts may be given to women by the fraternity and/or individual members.

However, it's less clear that something like taking PNM's to a $300 spa day would be against the rules, and I think that's 33girl's point.

SydneyK 04-27-2011 10:37 AM

I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

AOII Angel 04-27-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 2051043)
I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

That sure would sting.:D

MaggieXi 04-27-2011 11:47 AM

On the campus I advise on, the universities own the housing and select the groups that have housing and who gets what house (some houses are nicer than others). One of the deterrents to dirty rushing is if you have multiple infractions, your GLO could potentially loose their house for the following year and be moved into a suite or be moved into a less desirable house (No sorority wants a house that belonged to a fratenity for 5 years. Its just gross.)

AOIIBuckeye 04-27-2011 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 2051043)
I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

I love this idea, as improbably as it actually is. I know when I talked to friends in other GLOs that we were frustrated being told we all had to play by the rules, while the exact same chapters would have the same infractions for the same things year after year, with no consequences except the equivalent of a monetary slap on the wrist. It's been years since i've recruited and i'm still a little spiteful about that.

katydidKD 04-27-2011 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2051041)
I think you're asking if chapters can give away gifts during COB. The answer is "no".

From the MOI:

All Styles [of recruitment]: No favors or gifts may be given to women by the fraternity and/or individual members.

However, it's less clear that something like taking PNM's to a $300 spa day would be against the rules, and I think that's 33girl's point.

Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

SWTXBelle 04-27-2011 01:52 PM

I would think social penalties - i.e., no mixers, semi-formals, formals, etc. - might be best as they don't violate NPC agreements and would hurt enough to get chapters' attention.

SydneyK 04-27-2011 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2051123)
I would think social penalties - i.e., no mixers, semi-formals, formals, etc. - might be best as they don't violate NPC agreements and would hurt enough to get chapters' attention.

My only problem with this is that the NMs get punished. Their first experience with Greek life is immediately limited in precisely the way they were hoping to enjoy it. While fines certainly affect NMs (since their sorority's budget would be impacted), it isn't as obvious or disappointing for them as social penalties would be.

SWTXBelle 04-27-2011 02:48 PM

While it would be a hardship, it would be a relatively minor one, and in fact that chapter would probably end up with a really strong sisterhood if they played it right. The social aspect is important, but not the most important.

Fines are TOO painless - and if they aren't, then the social aspect would be severely curtailed just because of budgetary constraints.

I would also be willing to bet that come next recruitment that chapter would think twice about breaking the rules.

GreekGirley 04-27-2011 05:07 PM

Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

Here's another issue:
I would love to see a recruitment budget for a chapter be cut as a sanction. Now I know fines cannot be issued as punishment, but telling a chapter that they cannot spend as much would be the reverse of that. So, would that be acceptable?

The only issue I could see with that is this: our Panhellenic-mandated recruitment guidelines state that each chapter's recruitment budget cannot exceed $2,500. (I've got an issue with them telling us how much we can spend out of our own budget, but that's an issue for another day...) Well, that $2,500 limit is (and has been for years and year) a huge joke because most chapters I know have at minimum 2x that much in their chapter budgets for it and some in excess of 3x!! Once you account for food, supplies for philanthropy arts & crafts and rentals of things like tables & chairs, you're over budget without even factoring in the pretties like flowers. So, the Panhellenic is kidding themselves that chapters will keep expenditures at or under $2,500 during recruitment...but I've love to see them try to enforce an even lower budget.

Thoughts?

katydidKD 04-27-2011 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley (Post 2051200)
Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

It is an awesome idea, maybe a more realistic version of it is Panhellenic gets the money as always, but only uses that money for Chapters without infractions, a special fund? I know PH cannot pay for socials because of liability, but they can loan/give money for sisterhoods, programming, etc (at least on my campus, so I would be shocked if it isn't allowed on a national level)

DeltaBetaBaby 04-27-2011 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katydidKD (Post 2051121)
Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

I really don't think that chapter get fined for this stuff. Certainly I've heard of it, but it's always second or third hand, so I am chalking it up to an urban legend for now.

33girl 04-27-2011 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katydidKD (Post 2051121)
Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

During formal, yes. During informal, as I said, you can really stretch what "gifts" entails.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley (Post 2051200)
Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

I'm thinking you couldn't so much make it a straight up here's-a-check payout, as much as you could make it "hey XYZ, since you didn't dirty rush, you don't have to pay your yearly Panhel dues."

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley (Post 2051200)
Here's another issue:
I would love to see a recruitment budget for a chapter be cut as a sanction. Now I know fines cannot be issued as punishment, but telling a chapter that they cannot spend as much would be the reverse of that. So, would that be acceptable?

The only issue I could see with that is this: our Panhellenic-mandated recruitment guidelines state that each chapter's recruitment budget cannot exceed $2,500. (I've got an issue with them telling us how much we can spend out of our own budget, but that's an issue for another day...) Well, that $2,500 limit is (and has been for years and year) a huge joke because most chapters I know have at minimum 2x that much in their chapter budgets for it and some in excess of 3x!! Once you account for food, supplies for philanthropy arts & crafts and rentals of things like tables & chairs, you're over budget without even factoring in the pretties like flowers. So, the Panhellenic is kidding themselves that chapters will keep expenditures at or under $2,500 during recruitment...but I've love to see them try to enforce an even lower budget.

Thoughts?

Even if you cut a chapter's budget - that is, "ABC dirty rushed and therefore they can only spend $1500 while everyone else spends $2500" - the alumnae are going to ride to the rescue and pay for stuff. That's a no brainer.

katydidKD 04-27-2011 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2051229)
I really don't think that chapter get fined for this stuff. Certainly I've heard of it, but it's always second or third hand, so I am chalking it up to an urban legend for now.

It'd be so petty if one was, but I feel like everyone is always frantically taking things like napkins out of PNM's hands when they leave, so I always assumed it was a real infraction. I hope it is just a myth.

GreekGirley 04-27-2011 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2051250)
Even if you cut a chapter's budget - that is, "ABC dirty rushed and therefore they can only spend $1500 while everyone else spends $2500" - the alumnae are going to ride to the rescue and pay for stuff. That's a no brainer.

On our campus, we must account for - at actual value - any item donated or 'given' by anyone, including alums. It goes toward our budget. But again, that's assuming that it gets reported accurately by the chapters.

gatordeltapgh 04-27-2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley (Post 2050844)
Looking for creative - yet serious - ideas for sanctions imposed to chapters due to recruitment infractions.

We all know that presenting an 'educational program' does nothing but take up time and that no one ever learns anything new, so we're trying to come up with some new ideas...keeping in mind that sanctions cannot interfere with a chapter's ability to participate in recruitment or achieve quota.

One we've thought of so far is:

*disallow the member who committed the infraction from being present or "speaking" (read: participating with recruiting PNMs during a party) in a certain round(s) of recruitment

Any other ideas out there? Our campus is really having issues with enforcement of recruitment rules, because the punishment never fits the crime. It's too easy to break rules and get away with doing NOTHING for punishment. We're trying to figure out ways to enforce the rules and make the sanction and equal and appropriate response to the action. Thanks!

I recommend that you reach out to your NPC Area Advisor. You can find her at www.npcwomen.org

VandalSquirrel 04-27-2011 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 2051043)
I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK (Post 2051130)
My only problem with this is that the NMs get punished. Their first experience with Greek life is immediately limited in precisely the way they were hoping to enjoy it. While fines certainly affect NMs (since their sorority's budget would be impacted), it isn't as obvious or disappointing for them as social penalties would be.

I'd like to see the money go to a philanthropic group in the local community the women choose, an emergency loan fund for students who may have to travel home or if a chapter has a situation like a fire to get them books and clothes until insurance kicks in, or scholarships to be awarded to Greek women on that campus. The money could also be used for speakers or other programming. This way it is coming from Panhellenic and the naughty girls of XYZ aren't getting credit for holding a program or making a donation, it is coming from all of the women.

I don't like punishing new members for something they didn't do, so any money would have to be submit from funds taken before new members paid so the cost isn't passed on to them in some sneaky line item or dues being raised.

dukedg 04-28-2011 11:05 AM

I also think it is important to attempt to create a culture where PNMs or later NMs feel they can report dirty rushing that occurred. This is another reason that I don't like the idea of the punishment impacting NMs, because it makes it extremely unlikely that they will tell anyone about it.

I am wondering if there is some sort of shame campaign/culture that panhellenic (and maybe IFC) can encourage. For example, something from the beginning of pre-recruitment activities telling PNMs that the best chapters don't have to stoop to dirty rushing and drilling this message into their heads in as many ways as possible.

33girl 04-28-2011 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukedg (Post 2051397)
I am wondering if there is some sort of shame campaign/culture that panhellenic (and maybe IFC) can encourage. For example, something from the beginning of pre-recruitment activities telling PNMs that the best chapters don't have to stoop to dirty rushing and drilling this message into their heads in as many ways as possible.

You (18 year old you, not current you) are in love with Hot Guy. Hot Guy has a girlfriend of quite a while. Hot Guy dumps Girlfriend in a rather unceremonious manner. Hot Guy then asks you out. Do you say no to Hot Guy? Unless you are Mother Teresa, no, you probably don't. You jump up and down and are sure that Girlfriend was a skank and deserved to get dumped because you want Hot Guy.

If you really want to be in a chapter and they let you in, you're not going to have a problem with that. You're just going to enjoy your good fortune. The only time it's going to hit home is when it affects PNMs personally - i.e. they dump a chapter because another chapter promised them a bid, their best friend gets screwed, etc.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but it's the truth.

GreekGirley 04-28-2011 03:39 PM

Good point, 33girl! Most girls who've been dirty rushed feel special because a chapter is 'willing' to take a risk by doing something illegal. A very small minority would be actualy offended and 'cut' a chapter they originally liked because of something like this. Now, they might 'cut' a chapter they weren't leaning towards anyway...but, girls who go into recruitment with preconceived ideas (and there are LOTS of them on our campus), are unlikely to be negatively affected by dirty rushing tactics on the part of a chapter they already like.

goldendelta 04-28-2011 04:44 PM

Just a thought - maybe instead of punishing the chapters that have infracations you can reward the chapters that don't have any.


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