Shutter Fraternities for Young Women's Good
 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

From the Wall Street Journal. This woman is talking about, first, a story of sexual assault on someone else. Then, she talks about the "slur-chanting fraternity men" that are now on campus deprives women of an equal opportunity to education.

"I was a transfer student, and so my new friends had already been at the university two years and were in possession of valuable information, much of it learned the hard way: I was never, ever to go upstairs at a fraternity house. To do so was to invite assault. That I could be raped by a fellow student and that the event would somehow be my fault was an idea I found alarming and intimidating.

My fourth night at school, I went with some friends to Rugby Road, where the fraternity houses are located. They are built of the same Jeffersonian architecture as the rest of the campus. At once august and moldering, they seemed sinister, to stand for male power at its most malevolent and institutionally condoned. I remember standing there thinking I'd made a terrible mistake. It wasn't worth it, I decided. The next day I withdrew from the university."

I find that part that I quoted to be ridiculous. I kind of find the whole article to be inflammatory. Yes, a few people cast a negative light on the Greek System throughout the country, but this seems super reactionary.

Shutting down fraternities would not be an effective way to address rape culture on campus or anywhere else.

Closing fraternities is obviously the answer. No non-Greek men have ever assualted women on campus.

Wait. Scratch that. We also need to ban men from being in schools period. Assaults never happen outside of the university bubble.

Wait.

If she wants to get rid of that, she should probably close the basketball teams.

Shuttering (is this the new buzz word? I've seen it more in the last month than, well, ever) young women's vajayjays may be more effective. Obviously no one deserves to be victimized, but an ounce of prevention...

"The Greek system is dedicated to quelling young men's anxiety about submitting themselves to four years of sissy-pants book learning by providing them with a variety of he-man activities: drinking, drugging, ESPN watching and the sexual mistreatment of women."

...I don't even know where to start. This author has obviously had some terrible experiences, and apparently she feels the need to characterize a vast population with her misconstrued perceptions.

This article is deeply offensive to me. Sad that the WSJ would post such rubbish.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Normally, I LOVE Caitlin Flanagan's essays. This, however, was completely wrong. At least she admits that it's her mistrust of the fraternities that led to her not taking full advantage of the college experience. Otherwise, it's all bull. Leaving a school because the fraternity houses freak you out? I'm pretty sure she transferred from Berkeley, and she must have lived at home because she sounds completely clueless.

Here's a controversial thought: I wonder if more assaults are reported at fraternity houses because the victims tend to be freshmen (they've recently gone through that whole sexual assault reporting training during orientation), or because the victims tend to be sorority women (who get that education throughout their college experience in the name of risk management). Either way, it speaks to the fact that students should be regularly reminded of what to do when they're victimized.

Agreed- I read this last night and was really surprised it was via WSJ. She is obviously talking about things she happens to hear from whomever- I mean, if she hears that she could get sexually assaulted if she went "upstairs", and then she withdraws from UVA the next day after just looking at the fraternity houses? I don't think that she has much of an argument, because she's telling tales of third parties and just spreading around the misconception that all men who are members of a fraternity are Rapists In Waiting.

Really?

Ummm....no. I was being satirical.

Point being that there really isn't a way to stop sexual assault on college campi, short of gender segregation, and even then there will still be cases of same-sex assault and those who break the segregation.

Phew.

And yes, you're right that it's a pervasive problem not only on college campuses but in society as a whole.

I agree the article is crap, but saying women only report sexual assault because they can and were trained how to, and not because they were assaulted, is such a huge problem/false/contributes to rape culture I don't even know where to begin.

Reading comprehension fail.

She's saying that victims who meet those criteria may be more likely to report the crime (if it happens to them) because they know they CAN and are more trusting that something will be DONE about it.

Meaning, women who are not regularly reminded on ways to report sexual assault are that much less likely to report it if it happens to them.

As an aside, it irks me that colleges are trying to handle sexual assault themselves, rather than turning over such cases when they are reported to the police.

No violent crime should be handled "in house."

This.

And she was frightened into withdrawing from school by the mere sight of a fraternity house? Really? Architecture, as a general thing, doesn't usually frighten people that badly. Maybe it wasn't actually the house that did her in, but the landscaping. The shrubberies.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...RGtqsMdeFa1mi8

My exact thought.

Which brings us back to the last few posts of this thread: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=119237

.. which demonstrates exactly what can happen when this is attempted.

LOL.

Reading is fundamental.

Munchkin03: contributing to campus rape culture since 2011.

I could not agree with this more. I don't understand how not going to the police in such a case is even legal. How on earth is getting suspended for a semester or two an appropriate punishment for rape?!?! or even getting kicked out of school? Those cases need to go to a courtroom.

That said, I understand how painful it can be for a victim to have to relive her experiences through a trial. But still...would murder be dealt with through a campus judicial board?

Anddd back on topic with the thread, an assault happened recently on my campus that was committed by a non-greek student at a fraternity house. The brothers have definitely taken the fall out for it, and people now constantly refer to that house as unsafe because it the brothers are "rapists." Really, all they are guilty of is really poor risk management, and that issue has been addressed. The problem is that a GLO is so easy to blame under these circumstances.

Wall Street Journal’s “Shutter Fraternities for Young Women’s Good” Offers Faulty Logic and Wrong Conclusion

Apparently Phi Delta Theta's General Council President got wind of the article and wrote the above rebuttal. I couldn't have said it better myself:

This lady sounds like a nut.

That's all that really needs to be said.

Let me get this straight. This lady was raped in a fraternity house 27 years ago. By my calculations, whether the culprits were prosecuted or not, none of they are still in school. As a result of her nightmare, all fraternities should be shuttered now?? Guilty by association?

What about men who have an apartment and have parties in their apartments, should that now be made illegal? Coed dorms-- illegal since men are in close proximity to young ladies and can rape them? Oh, lets not forget the young men who live at home and commute to school-- should they no longer be allowed on college campuses for fear they COULD rape a woman?

Should all schools be same sex?

This is one very illogical article.

DaffyKD

Hey, don't laugh. Preppies everywhere felt the same when they saw their first Hot Topic. Why do you think LL Bean's catalog business is so big? BECAUSE HOT TOPIC IN ITS SINISTERISM AND MALEVOLVENCE SENT PREPPIES RUNNING AND SCREAMING FROM MALLS ACROSS THE NATION.

No, Liz Seccuro (the one who was raped 27 years ago) talks in her book about how one of her rapists was making his AA amends and came forward to her. From a brief google, she doesn't seem to be focusing on the fact that it happened at a fraternity house (although it did), rather on her ultimately getting justice, and on forgiveness and redemption.

Caitlin Flanagan (google her name, apparently the gender feminists AND the equity feminists both hate her) is the one who wants all fraternities to be closed down because that will automatically eliminate rape. She is an idiot.

Normally, regardless of how you feel about her, Caitlin Flanagan's essays make sense. This one does not. :confused::confused:

Liz Seccuro (the actual victim) ended up joining a sorority at UVA. None of the articles I've read about her mention any indictment of the Greek system or even that specific fraternity (she did mention that she avoided that house)--it seems like she understands that it could have happened anywhere.

This. But also, universities need to do a better job of shutting shit down when it happens. The only thing that made the Yale fraternity different than the other students was the fact they were chanting it in public. Yeah, that makes campus incredibly hostile to women, and I'm thrilled the women at Yale stood up and didn't back down about it from what I've seen.

But like you said in a later post, this whole "handling sexual assault cases internally" bullshit has got to end.

Personally, as important as women's safety lectures are, I'd like to see more: Here is what rape is, it is not ok, ever. Here is what consent is, you must have this or it is rape.

Blah blah stop trying to protect our daughters and instead raise our sons not to be rapists.

Amen to the bolded.

I haven't read any piece by this author before, but she sounds batshit crazy in this one.

When I was a collegian, there was only one sexual assault lecture that we had to have something like 40% of our chapters attend. It made a difference among my fraternity friends. Mandatory and more frequent programming (like the alcohol stuff we had to do every year) might be more effective. I do think some men's groups have this through their national organization, but right now we as Greek organizations are doing a great job at educating women about sexual assault, but a really shitty job at educating men.

It's fucked up that we teach people not to murder, but don't teach them not to rape.

About 15 years ago, there was a major controversy at my undergrad because of a sexual assault. He said it was consensual, she couldn't remember. The U tried to handle it internally and failed. He sued the school and they all ended up settling for millions of dollars. (I'm simplifying it a lot here but it just goes to how the "internal handling" can backfire for the accused as well as the accuser.)

One result of that whole mess is that we have excellent sexual assault awareness seminars during orientation, and it's pretty much how you described it. I know that the Greeks all had to have additional training (this could have been nationally mandated), as did any organization that wanted to host a party on-campus.

I'd rather see a greater focus on SAFETY, period, rather than on rape. Doing the latter just puts up barriers between men and women and puts women into the eternal victim role. It's not wise to go alone someplace with ANYONE you barely know. I mean, you never know when a chick is going to go Single White Female on you. Funny reference, but I sincerely mean it. Ditto for men - going somewhere with an unknown man OR woman. Someone doesn't have to have half a foot & 200 lbs on you to do things to you (after drugging you) that will mess you up.

Most rape isn't stranger rape. Placing the focus on safety puts the responsibility on the victim. "Well why was she with him, she should have known better."

And finally, DISCUSSING RAPE DOES NOT DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN, RAPE DRIVES A WEDGE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.

Wanted to make that perfectly clear.



/yes, victims come from all genders, but women are the primary victims and the most affected by rape. They are also affected by the rape culture that started this thread in a way that most men are not.

ETA some wiki stats:
Do we address 1/4 of rapes by focusing on strangers, or 100% of rapes by focusing on consent, and punishing offenders rather than letting them off with a boys will be boys.

If 37-40% of the time you're at home, does that really count as 'going somewhere' with someone you don't know?

As I said, the wedge was already driven. Not talking about it is just playing pretend.

College Campuses and Rape
We need to be teaching men about consent, teaching them not to be rapists, and punishing them when it happens.

Women are taught about sexual assault and rape whereas men are not taught (beyond the occasional "if she says no...") for the same reason that women are taught to be cautious of other forms of victimization (such as robbery and aggravated assault) despite the fact that men are the victims of violent crimes (not sexual assault and rape) at a higher rate than women. Noncoincidentally, men are the majority of perpetrators regardless of whether the victim is a man or a woman. And stranger assaults are relatively rare. While people are victimized by strangers, all violent crimes (including rape and sexual assualt) are most likely not stranger perpetrators. That includes people who see you around town but you've never spoken to the person or don't remember ever speaking to the person.

Therefore, women are taught not to leave the house too late whereas men are allowed to run through life "boys will be boys" with no consideration to anything. Men are allowed to sit with their legs wide open to allow space for balls that don't need that much space whereas women are taught to sit with their legs closed. Be careful, women, your vagina may run away or at least the mere sight of that area of your body may warrant a sexual attack. But, men, you keep doing your thing. You're in charge. Sit back and relax.

This has become one of my favorite organizations:
http://carleton-sasc.ca/?page_id=202
Their videos are on youtube and some of them have relatively strong content. It is wonderful for organizations to work toward waking up EVERYONE and not allowing men to remain asleep while women handle these issues.

Men's slumber (i.e. "boys will be boys" and "let the man watch television while the woman goes crazy raising the children") is rooted in patriarchy, sexism, and misogyny and is pervasive in the family and other social institutions.

/end rant

ETA: I don't care about that article and that woman's claims about fraternities. The larger issue is more important.

DrPhil, for your post and the linked resource:
http://i.imgur.com/8CAaZ.png

DrPhil:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runnin...-high-five.jpg

So in other words, every man's default setting is rapist, and we need to "teach" them to override it?

Thank you so much for proving my point.

Women's default setting isn't victim, yet women are always taught how to be safe.

It works both ways. Teach both women and men to be safe; and teach both women and men how not to victimize others.

Don't some NPC chapters talk to members about campus safety including sexual assault, rape, and other violence? Why shouldn't fraternity chapters do the same thing? That should actually be a campus-wide lesson (as it is for female and male students at some campuses) rather than only letting organizations teach that.

It's also important to rid ourselves of the victim double standard. Whenever I talk about sexual assault and rape, I include males as potential victims. 95% of the time, girls/women and boys/men burst out laughing.

That can't be even remotely funny if we don't want women's sexual assault and rape to be funny.

Sexual assault against men is not funny, and I do think there's a high chance it's extremely underreported considering the stigma against all victims of sexual assault, ESPECIALLY men.

In some cases, it is a campus-wide lesson. I believe I posted this upthread, but my undergrad (as a result of a lawsuit where ACCUSED sued the University) has a very comprehensive sexual assault awareness and prevention program.

For risk management and insurance reasons, Greeks tend to get more education about it than the general campus population. This may not be the case everywhere, however.