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SC2013 04-03-2011 02:56 PM

A local sorority?
 
I'd like your thoughts on how plausible starting a local sorority at USC would be.

Our school has a very, very established Greek system, with "tiers" that have been kind of set in stone and things like that. However, more and more students rush every year, and pledge classes are just getting bigger and more and more PNMs are dropping. (Over 1000 girls rushed in the fall, maybe 600-700 stayed around long enough to get bids, pledge classes were in the 60s.) There are currently 11 sororities: 8 that have no problem making quota/having successful formal recruitment, 1 that has been around just as long as the other 8 but has a hard time during formal recruitment, 1 that went from being a local around the 2003 mark into a chapter of SDT that chooses to not participate in formal recruitment, and ADChi a Christian-values oriented sorority.

I personally am already involved in a professional fraternity, but I believe that the bonds of sisterhood are something that cannot be replaced by any other kind of organization. Of course, by reading my past posts, you can see that I have gone through formal recruitment but didn't receive a bid to a house I'd be comfortable in. I wouldn't even consider starting a local sorority (that would perhaps become a Chi Omega, or Sigma Kappa, or Kappa Delta, or another chapter that at one time was at USC but isn't active currently) if I didn't see how crazy the numbers are concerning recruitment. Also, considering a local chapter recently became a NPC sorority, there perhaps is a chance for success.

So what do you think? Is it too soon for another local to be established, while one FR chapter is struggling and two others are relatively new? Would this sorority have to bring something new to the table, or would being a local instead of a national already be that "something new"?

Another note: I really like what Kappa Delta in particular stands for. With four national philanthropies and especially their work with Dove Campaign for Real Beauty (perhaps what USC needs), I feel like their national focus on helping out the community brings a lot to the table without being strictly a community service fraternity. Also, yes I'm nerding out but I like their symbols. There used to be a chapter at USC as well, at least according to Wikipedia that says Joan Lowery Nixon was a Theta Sigma...but she graduated in 1947...There are a few chapters in California, such as at UCLA, but I don't know if their alumni presence is as strong as, say, Pi Beta Phi or Kappa Alpha Theta in California. I could be wrong!

I feel like, as great as our Greek system is and how well-rounded our members are, most chapters do not really fit closely to their national mottos and creeds to better themselves academically, philanthropically, but only socially. I would want to form a local sorority that focuses most strongly on I suppose the more "serious" side of what being a sorority member means. I'm not saying it would be all work and no play, but I mean philanthropies wouldn't just be about getting drunk in the middle of the day on campus. I mean girls attracted to this kind of sorority wouldn't feel like they're doing the community a favor by waking up at 9am on Saturday for a beach cleanup. I mean if your motto is "Let us strive for that which is honorable, beautiful and highest," you follow it and don't just paint it somewhere in your house to pass by while you get ready to prance down the Row in a micromini.

I guess I'm thinking about all of this during the recent backlash our community's gotten. And it made me think, getting in trouble for all these things won't change anything except put bad behavior underground. For the most part, fraternities are about getting hazed until they become active members, at which point they'll have a house that won't deny them entry to Thursday night parties. Sororities are about getting the hottest members to "best represent" themselves, and sending their most attractive members to the "best" frats, and spending the most time and effort on only a few "top" fraternity philanthropies. And then requiring a couple hours community service. That's just the environment the Row is in right now...of course, I feel like individually Greek students don't act this way but somehow when the entire system comes together that's what's happened. Our president put the Greek system on probation, and that's not going to have current members question their behaviors and the status quo. They're just mad they can't party.

That's not what the GC community is about. That's not what being an alumni, being a member for life, is about. I feel like our school's Greek system in general has deviated too far from what each national organization stands for, and I'd like to return to those roots. Am I SOL?

DeltaBetaBaby 04-03-2011 03:03 PM

Okay, first of all, you are saying a lot of nasty things about chapters you once wanted to join, so you sound like sour grapes. Cut that out.

AZTheta 04-03-2011 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043314)
I'd like your thoughts on how plausible starting a local sorority at USC would be.

Our school has a very, very established Greek system, with "tiers" that have been kind of set in stone and things like that. However, more and more students rush every year, and pledge classes are just getting bigger and more and more PNMs are dropping. (Over 1000 girls rushed in the fall, maybe 600-700 stayed around long enough to get bids, pledge classes were in the 60s.) There are currently 11 sororities: 8 that have no problem making quota/having successful formal recruitment, 1 that has been around just as long as the other 8 but has a hard time during formal recruitment, 1 that went from being a local around the 2003 mark into a chapter of SDT that chooses to not participate in formal recruitment, and ADChi a Christian-values oriented sorority.

I personally am already involved in a professional fraternity, but I believe that the bonds of sisterhood are something that cannot be replaced by any other kind of organization. Of course, by reading my past posts, you can see that I have gone through formal recruitment but didn't receive a bid to a house I'd be comfortable in. I wouldn't even consider starting a local sorority (that would perhaps become a Chi Omega, or Sigma Kappa, or Kappa Delta, or another chapter that at one time was at USC but isn't active currently) if I didn't see how crazy the numbers are concerning recruitment. Also, considering a local chapter recently became a NPC sorority, there perhaps is a chance for success.

So what do you think? Is it too soon for another local to be established, while one FR chapter is struggling and two others are relatively new? Would this sorority have to bring something new to the table, or would being a local instead of a national already be that "something new"?

Another note: I really like what Kappa Delta in particular stands for. With four national philanthropies and especially their work with Dove Campaign for Real Beauty (perhaps what USC needs), I feel like their national focus on helping out the community brings a lot to the table without being strictly a community service fraternity. Also, yes I'm nerding out but I like their symbols. There used to be a chapter at USC as well, at least according to Wikipedia that says Joan Lowery Nixon was a Theta Sigma...but she graduated in 1947...There are a few chapters in California, such as at UCLA, but I don't know if their alumni presence is as strong as, say, Pi Beta Phi or Kappa Alpha Theta in California. I could be wrong!

I feel like, as great as our Greek system is and how well-rounded our members are, most chapters do not really fit closely to their national mottos and creeds to better themselves academically, philanthropically, but only socially. I would want to form a local sorority that focuses most strongly on I suppose the more "serious" side of what being a sorority member means. I'm not saying it would be all work and no play, but I mean philanthropies wouldn't just be about getting drunk in the middle of the day on campus. I mean girls attracted to this kind of sorority wouldn't feel like they're doing the community a favor by waking up at 9am on Saturday for a beach cleanup. I mean if your motto is "Let us strive for that which is honorable, beautiful and highest," you follow it and don't just paint it somewhere in your house to pass by while you get ready to prance down the Row in a micromini.

I guess I'm thinking about all of this during the recent backlash our community's gotten. And it made me think, getting in trouble for all these things won't change anything except put bad behavior underground. For the most part, fraternities are about getting hazed until they become active members, at which point they'll have a house that won't deny them entry to Thursday night parties. Sororities are about getting the hottest members to "best represent" themselves, and sending their most attractive members to the "best" frats, and spending the most time and effort on only a few "top" fraternity philanthropies. And then requiring a couple hours community service. That's just the environment the Row is in right now...of course, I feel like individually Greek students don't act this way but somehow when the entire system comes together that's what's happened. Our president put the Greek system on probation, and that's not going to have current members question their behaviors and the status quo. They're just mad they can't party.

That's not what the GC community is about. That's not what being an alumni, being a member for life, is about. I feel like our school's Greek system in general has deviated too far from what each national organization stands for, and I'd like to return to those roots. Am I SOL?

QFP.

What do I think? I think that your timing is horrible and yes, you're SOL on many levels.

ETA: you were offered a bid when you went through recruitment Fall 2010, so you had the opportunity to make the changes in the system that you think are necessary. To me, your motives continue to be questionable.

SC2013 04-03-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2043317)
Okay, first of all, you are saying a lot of nasty things about chapters you once wanted to join, so you sound like sour grapes. Cut that out.

Oh no! I really don't mean to. I really love the idea of sisterhood and what these chapters stand for, I feel like in practice it's fallen a little flat. If I had joined any of these chapters--and I would have no qualms--I would try to change this internally as well.

It's difficult to convey what I see on campus to anyone not here at the same place, same time. The Row has gotten really rowdy. The USC email is just a culmination of our environment, for the whole world to finally see. The only reason the email went viral is because people thought it was funny, not because it was untrue. It just makes me sad to see that what Greek organizations aim to be hasn't really stuck here...

DTD Alum 04-03-2011 03:37 PM

First of all, as an SC alumnus, the row is actually quite tame compared to what it used to be. I am far enough out of college to let you know that way before you got there, the row was much rowdier and with much bigger scandals. If anything, the row will continue to get tamer under Nikias.

Second, you just spelled out the problem with numbers yourself. Out of 10 sororities that could conceivably participate in formal rush (ADChi doesn't count), two cannot make quota year after year. Somebody in a Panhellenic GLO feel free to chime in, but it's my understanding that this is not the type of system that PHC would feel is ready for expansion. I think they usually wait until everybody is making quota, or close to it. But you have one house who usually only makes half of quota (usually people don't show up to bid day even if they technically do make quota), and one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Plus, the vast majority of women who don't receive bids drop out not because there is not a place for them, but because they were focused on a small handful of sororities and didn't get them and therefore decided to be GDI. I guarantee you that if they will not pledge the two houses that are struggling (and many will not even pledge "middle tier" houses), they are not jumping on board with a local colony. I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. Not to mention, even if a national wanted to colonize your local, where is the room on the row? It's my understanding that several fraternity chapters (including at least one very established one) are SOL in terms of housing options because a chapter cannot function off the row, and there is simply no land. To complicate things further, you should maybe look into WHY the local that was previously here was founded. Before they colonized into a national, they served a very specific niche market that would be able to draw some PNMs away from the national GLOs. Unless your local could find another equally desirable niche market, I don't think they are comparable situations.

Sorority pledge classes are too big, but that's nothing new, this problem has been around for a bit. The 60s is really nothing out of the normal for USC.

For the boys, Kappa Sigma scandals are bad press, but you should have seen some of the scandals that have happened in the past. There are a couple in particular that happened over the past 10-15 years that make this look like nothing. Not to mention that the fraternity rankings are so liquid it would shock you. If I told you what the top houses were less than 10 years ago you probably wouldn't believe me, because half of it does not line up to what is apparently the case today. Fraternities are always rising, getting kicked off, falling, colonizing, etc.

You are 2013, so I'm guessing you are currently a sophomore. I think your best bet to go Greek is rushing next year, but you'll be a junior. Sophomores have a relatively easy time at rush, but juniors get massively cut. Every sorority takes a small handful (usually just the two that are considered free), but the two chapters that usually do not make quota are much more welcome to taking more than two juniors. So you can probably still get a bid, but your options are going to be much more limited than they may have been in the past. But frankly I would not hold my breath for another option (ie a colony or a local) to appear in the two years you have left. It's just not a plausible situation. Go through rush (or COB) next year, but be realistic about your options.

Sorry to say all this because I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's important to internalize because next fall will be your last chance to go Greek at USC, and even then it's pushing it.

33girl 04-03-2011 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2043322)
one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Are you talking about SDT or another NPC group? I thought SDT was fairly new and never intended to participate in formal rush.

OP - many many many chapters are founded with the idea of "we are going to bring something new/different/more morally upright/more whatever oriented to Greek life." If you insist on being apart from something you simultaneously want to be a part of, it doesn't work very well. Either you content yourself with a much smaller niche membership and are never truly accepted as legitimate by the rest of the community, or you eventually become what you railed against to begin with, or you refuse to waver in the least from your initial purpose and try to compete with the rest of the groups and die out. (Note: this mainly applies to sororities.)

I'm not speaking for KD, but I very much doubt they would want to come to a campus like USC and be labeled "the sorority that isn't like the other sororities."

KSUViolet06 04-03-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043319)
Oh no! I really don't mean to. I really love the idea of sisterhood and what these chapters stand for, I feel like in practice it's fallen a little flat. If I had joined any of these chapters--and I would have no qualms--I would try to change this internally as well.

It's difficult to convey what I see on campus to anyone not here at the same place, same time. The Row has gotten really rowdy. The USC email is just a culmination of our environment, for the whole world to finally see. The only reason the email went viral is because people thought it was funny, not because it was untrue. It just makes me sad to see that what Greek organizations aim to be hasn't really stuck here...

How does one know what Greek organizations "aim to be" and how they are or aren't fulfilling that when one is not a member?

How does one intend to start a sorority and gain support for it on the grounds of basically saying "all the other groups have NO VALUES?"

Good luck with that.


SC2013 04-03-2011 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2043322)
First of all, as an SC alumnus, the row is actually quite tame compared to what it used to be. I am far enough out of college to let you know that way before you got there, the row was much rowdier and with much bigger scandals. If anything, the row will continue to get tamer under Nikias.

Second, you just spelled out the problem with numbers yourself. Out of 10 sororities that could conceivably participate in formal rush (ADChi doesn't count), two cannot make quota year after year. Somebody in a Panhellenic GLO feel free to chime in, but it's my understanding that this is not the type of system that PHC would feel is ready for expansion. I think they usually wait until everybody is making quota, or close to it. But you have one house who usually only makes half of quota (usually people don't show up to bid day even if they technically do make quota), and one that was struggling financially to the point where they had to withdraw from formal rush.

Plus, the vast majority of women who don't receive bids drop out not because there is not a place for them, but because they were focused on a small handful of sororities and didn't get them and therefore decided to be GDI. I guarantee you that if they will not pledge the two houses that are struggling (and many will not even pledge "middle tier" houses), they are not jumping on board with a local colony. I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. Not to mention, even if a national wanted to colonize your local, where is the room on the row? It's my understanding that several fraternity chapters (including at least one very established one) are SOL in terms of housing options because a chapter cannot function off the row, and there is simply no land. To complicate things further, you should maybe look into WHY the local that was previously here was founded. Before they colonized into a national, they served a very specific niche market that would be able to draw some PNMs away from the national GLOs. Unless your local could find another equally desirable niche market, I don't think they are comparable situations.

Sorority pledge classes are too big, but that's nothing new, this problem has been around for a bit. The 60s is really nothing out of the normal for USC.

For the boys, Kappa Sigma scandals are bad press, but you should have seen some of the scandals that have happened in the past. There are a couple in particular that happened over the past 10-15 years that make this look like nothing. Not to mention that the fraternity rankings are so liquid it would shock you. If I told you what the top houses were less than 10 years ago you probably wouldn't believe me, because half of it does not line up to what is apparently the case today. Fraternities are always rising, getting kicked off, falling, colonizing, etc.

You are 2013, so I'm guessing you are currently a sophomore. I think your best bet to go Greek is rushing next year, but you'll be a junior. Sophomores have a relatively easy time at rush, but juniors get massively cut. Every sorority takes a small handful (usually just the two that are considered free), but the two chapters that usually do not make quota are much more welcome to taking more than two juniors. So you can probably still get a bid, but your options are going to be much more limited than they may have been in the past. But frankly I would not hold my breath for another option (ie a colony or a local) to appear in the two years you have left. It's just not a plausible situation. Go through rush (or COB) next year, but be realistic about your options.

Sorry to say all this because I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's important to internalize because next fall will be your last chance to go Greek at USC, and even then it's pushing it.

Don't be sorry; I reached out to the GC community in hopes of getting insightful information such as what you've just told me.

I really wasn't sure if it was possible, especially in such a firmly established Greek system at USC and now of course I'm even more unsure. I suppose my best bet would be to continue doing what I do with my professional fraternity, and work with philanthropic organizations on my own...it's just a bummer is all. I might also be a little too idealistic to what a GLO at USC could be, and that's really just my fault.

Only thing I can say that would give this local sorority an infinitesimal chance is that two of our sororities have religious histories. Perhaps one that focused more heavily on service and grades could attract some...but as you said (and I agree)...doubtful.

SC2013 04-03-2011 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2043333)
How does one know what Greek organizations "aim to be" and how they are or aren't fulfilling that when one is not a member?

How does one intend to start a sorority and gain support for it on the grounds of basically saying "all the other groups have NO VALUES?"

Good luck with that.


I may be presuming too much, but most Greek organizations' mission statements, mottos, creeds, etc. all stand for very noble endeavors, seeking to improve not only themselves and their brotherhoods/sisterhoods but the community and academic environment. That's what I was assuming, and I've noticed a steadying dichotomy between the face houses put on when parents and nationals are around, and when left to their own devices.

We as a culture--youth culture, USC culture, Southern California culture, Greek culture--have started to value, or rather place too much value, upon the more superficial aspects of Greek culture that nationwide have negatively stereotyped GLOs. The social aspects of the Greek system are certainly strong, valuable, and beneficial to all. However, other aspects have fallen to the back burner.

I love USC and this has given our university specifically a terrible and largely unsubstantiated reputation. I'm thinking of ways in which we could reverse this, and if it took a local sorority that refocused on the founding principles of sisterhood to try and turn this ship around...

Maybe I'm just being outdated. But my sister just received a copy of her sorority's magazine in the mail and I was reading through it, and many of the facets that nationally the sorority is proud of and supports are not satisfactorily represented on a regular basis in my opinion. Furthermore, the founding members' goals and beliefs on how the sorority's members should act and behave are only present when adults come around.

These founders' ideals and mission statements are what attracted me to the Greek system. I still believe in the importance of the bond of GLOs but perhaps I was just too idealistic in believing that the symbols of these GLOs go beyond surface level?

ellebud 04-03-2011 05:30 PM

As an alum of USC (with one daughter currently attending in a house), another who graduated I'll add my two cents: SDT is new. They have a different target audience, (not the Jewish aspect btw as they are diverse) but a strong sisterhood There is a Christian sorority which is again, different. I believe that the only house of the big ten that doesn't make quota is the aforementioned AChiO. And that is an absolute shame. There are so many pnms who refuse to accept their bid there because it isn't...............(fill in the blank). So now you want to add another house to the mix?

I'm so sorry that you didn't choose to accept your bid. You could have made a difference. They wanted you. I understand that in a new sorority you would have the control, but that's not happening. Cost, numbers are just the beginning of your challenges.

Neither I nor my daughter is affiliated with AChiO. My daughter's house had some interactions with this house. The Reluctant One is, I guess in current speak, cool/hot whatever. She has good instincts. SDT and AChiO have really nice girls. If you crave sisterhood, give them a chance. Take a chance and go through recruitment next year. But unless you have unbelievable connections and support, several million dollars to purchase/renovate a house support the houses that are there.

KSUViolet06 04-03-2011 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043340)
I may be presuming too much, but most Greek organizations' mission statements, mottos, creeds, etc. all stand for very noble endeavors, seeking to improve not only themselves and their brotherhoods/sisterhoods but the community and academic environment. That's what I was assuming, and I've noticed a steadying dichotomy between the face houses put on when parents and nationals are around, and when left to their own devices.

We as a culture--youth culture, USC culture, Southern California culture, Greek culture--have started to value, or rather place too much value, upon the more superficial aspects of Greek culture that nationwide have negatively stereotyped GLOs. The social aspects of the Greek system are certainly strong, valuable, and beneficial to all. However, other aspects have fallen to the back burner.

I love USC and this has given our university specifically a terrible and largely unsubstantiated reputation. I'm thinking of ways in which we could reverse this, and if it took a local sorority that refocused on the founding principles of sisterhood to try and turn this ship around...

Maybe I'm just being outdated. But my sister just received a copy of her sorority's magazine in the mail and I was reading through it, and many of the facets that nationally the sorority is proud of and supports are not satisfactorily represented on a regular basis in my opinion. Furthermore, the founding members' goals and beliefs on how the sorority's members should act and behave are only present when adults come around.

These founders' ideals and mission statements are what attracted me to the Greek system. I still believe in the importance of the bond of GLOs but perhaps I was just too idealistic in believing that the symbols of these GLOs go beyond surface level?

You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

Drolefille 04-03-2011 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2043342)
You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

Geez because she sees all the drinking and sex and KNOWS that those people are not, in their non partying times, living up to the standards that she KNOWS are there. Duh.

SC2013 04-03-2011 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2043342)
You didn't really answer my question. How do you know? You know all of this about sororities from reading your sister's sorority magazine?

If you were to start a local, you wouldn't get far with the attitude that the existing groups are somehow "not measuring up" to their values (that you don't know about because you aren't actually in them.)

Founding principles and histories are readily available online, I can't pretend to know what is revealed during initiation, during chapter meetings, etc. but I'm assuming that the literature that is publicly available, not just from magazines, but from literature written by founding members (Google Books is awesome), from national organization websites, etc. still stands true. Like I said though, I could be presuming but my assumption is that the information given once being a member would delve further into what is publicly available, not deviate completely.

KSUViolet06 04-03-2011 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043345)
Founding principles and histories are readily available online, I can't pretend to know what is revealed during initiation, during chapter meetings, etc. but I'm assuming that the literature that is publicly available, not just from magazines, but from literature written by founding members (Google Books is awesome), from national organization websites, etc. still stands true. Like I said though, I could be presuming but my assumption is that the information given once being a member would delve further into what is publicly available, not deviate completely.


How on Earth does one know that EVERY SINGLE GLO at USC is not "measuring up" and that EVERY SINGLE SORORITY MEMBER ON on the Row is not deeply invested in those values?

Because they party?

I mean, WTF?

You really think that you are going to start a local, and women are going to want to join solely on the strength of you saying "heyyy PNMs, everyone else is not living up to their values!!!!! See, they're partying and junk!!!!"

Come on.

I mean, really.

SC2013 04-03-2011 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2043344)
Geez because she sees all the drinking and sex and KNOWS that those people are not, in their non partying times, living up to the standards that she KNOWS are there. Duh.

Well I live with 2 sorority girls. I know that they don't just drink and have sex all the time, but thank you for generalizing my concerns into black and white.

One is very involved in student government, volunteers, is double majoring, and was strongly considering dropping her sorority because it didn't enable her the time to have these extracurriculars, and she doesn't spend too much time at the house generally. She eventually decided to stay in the sorority because she decided that whenever she did have free time she'd have a group of girls to go out to the Row with. She and my other roommate both agree that their organizations rely mostly on social activities. I mean, that's what makes them successful and I understand how that is. My other roommate sees the philanthropic requirements as a nuisance, as do many of my friends in GLOs. It's not like since I'm not in a GLO I'm completely unaware of GLO members' mentality. Many girls are very involved in service work, many girls are very driven in their studies; that's a given. However, that seems to come in conflict with their involvement in their sorority rather than enhance their experience. What I'm saying is, it shouldn't be that way.

And hopefully that wouldn't take a new colony, and instead being on probation to have members reexamine the meaning of being Greek. So far it doesn't seem to have that effect, however. I personally see USC's Greek community as what should be the future leaders of a student body already comprised of incredibly involved, talented, well-rounded, intelligent people. And the Greek community already contributes a great deal; I just feel like it's missing the mark in other instances too.

SC2013 04-03-2011 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2043346)
How on Earth does one know that EVERY SINGLE GLO at USC is not "measuring up" and that EVERY SINGLE SORORITY MEMBER ON on the Row is not deeply invested in those values?

Because they party?

I mean, WTF?

You really think that you are going to start a local, and women are going to want to join solely on the strength of you saying "heyyy PNMs, everyone else is not living up to their values!!!!! See, they're partying and junk!!!!"

Come on.

I mean, really.

Come on. I party too. Every college student does. But being Greek shouldn't be just about...partying more. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with partying. But being Greek should be about more than that. It should be about striving to do better, do more.

And in theory, it is. In practice here, it's not really.

princessamy 04-03-2011 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043350)
Come on. I party too. Every college student does. But being Greek shouldn't be just about...partying more. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with partying. But being Greek should be about more than that. It should be about striving to do better, do more.

And in theory, it is. In practice here, it's not really.

How would know if they don't practice it? You aren't in any of the houses, so you can't speak on what they are doing.

DTD Alum 04-03-2011 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2043328)
Are you talking about SDT or another NPC group? I thought SDT was fairly new and never intended to participate in formal rush.

SDT is fairly new, but they did intend to participate in formal rush. They did it for a couple years and then pulled out they didn't have enough members or finances to do it on the same scale as the other sororities. Ironically, as ellebud mentioned, they are an incredibly diverse sorority that is probably the closest to what the OP is considering creating. They are smaller, more alternative and have a very different type of sisterhood/sorority culture than the other nine, and for that reason they attract a different type of PNM who is into a more casual environment. They have a beautiful house too, very modern inside and brand new.

Drolefille 04-03-2011 06:19 PM

I'm sure the Greek community appreciates your outside perspective at telling them how much they suck at what they're supposed to be doing and that they will take your opinion under advisement.

Lol at it 'taking a colony' for them to 'reexamine' and come to the same conclusions you have. Why the fuck do you even care? Go be better than the GLOs you're not a member of elsewhere.

SC2013 04-03-2011 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2043353)
I'm sure the Greek community appreciates your outside perspective at telling them how much they suck at what they're supposed to be doing and that they will take your opinion under advisement.

Lol at it 'taking a colony' for them to 'reexamine' and come to the same conclusions you have. Why the fuck do you even care? Go be better than the GLOs you're not a member of elsewhere.

I care because the Greek community is a very important community at USC. I care because recent actions of just two guys have made news around the world. I care because I have many friends in fraternities and sororities that are constantly being negatively stereotyped by the bad actions of a few, and because most have had to make the choice between being involved in their GLO and getting good grades and being involved in anything else.

Why shouldn't I care, really? Please don't tell me that we shouldn't all strive to be more involved in the community and with our school. Non-Greeks likewise should give back to the community, but the Greek system here is very well-established and I admire what it has accomplished thus far, and I see them as the first to take steps here at USC. If GLOs head in a positive direction the university, non-Greeks, and the public would respect them better. If I hated GLOs, why would I bother with a local sorority rather than simply a club? Because as a member of a fraternity I see the importance and how special that bond is. As a member of a fraternity I see it can be difficult to find ways to get involved, but that doesn't mean we can't keep trying.

Gusteau 04-03-2011 06:40 PM

I can tell that you like research, I do too. However, and it's a big however, this is one area where all of the good research and well intentioned reading you've been doing doesn't mean squat. You've read about our values, ideals, philanthropies, and foundings, and that's great, but unless you're a member you can't tell us what we should or shouldn't be doing or how we are or aren't living up to our values. I can't go into another country and tell them how they should do x, y, or z to improve their country because I don't have the background or cultural context to give them an informed assessment. You're in a similar position here, and I believe your time would be better spent elsewhere.

Their are certainly issues present in Greek Life (not speaking about USC, but about the community in general). Unfortunately we have often earned the negative reputation we get, but if a meaningful change is going to be made it can only come from within our community, period.

als463 04-03-2011 07:22 PM

Waaaaahhhhhh....
 
Am I the only one who reads the OP as crying, "Waaaahhhhh...I didn't get into the chapter I wanted (maybe they weren't top-tier enough or something) and now I'm going to start a new organization by claiming these orgs. no longer have values! Boo-Hoo!" I can't be.

I would rather be in the bottom-tier national sorority at USC than try to start a "top-tier" local as I cry about the values no longer meaning anything to the members. OP, you had your chance. Get over it. Move along and stop trying to put down the Greek Life on your campus. In fact, please go away.

Drolefille 04-03-2011 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043357)
I care because the Greek community is a very important community at USC. I care because recent actions of just two guys have made news around the world. I care because I have many friends in fraternities and sororities that are constantly being negatively stereotyped by the bad actions of a few, and because most have had to make the choice between being involved in their GLO and getting good grades and being involved in anything else.

Why shouldn't I care, really? Please don't tell me that we shouldn't all strive to be more involved in the community and with our school. Non-Greeks likewise should give back to the community, but the Greek system here is very well-established and I admire what it has accomplished thus far, and I see them as the first to take steps here at USC. If GLOs head in a positive direction the university, non-Greeks, and the public would respect them better. If I hated GLOs, why would I bother with a local sorority rather than simply a club? Because as a member of a fraternity I see the importance and how special that bond is. As a member of a fraternity I see it can be difficult to find ways to get involved, but that doesn't mean we can't keep trying.

You don't see an issue with telling other people they're not living up to the ideals of their organizations?

Shit, you and dnall should just have judgmental babies together.

ASTalumna06 04-03-2011 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille (Post 2043368)
You don't see an issue with telling other people they're not living up to the ideals of their organizations?

Shit, you and dnall should just have judgmental babies together.

LOL

33girl 04-03-2011 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043349)
Well I live with 2 sorority girls. I know that they don't just drink and have sex all the time, but thank you for generalizing my concerns into black and white.

One is very involved in student government, volunteers, is double majoring, and was strongly considering dropping her sorority because it didn't enable her the time to have these extracurriculars, and she doesn't spend too much time at the house generally. She eventually decided to stay in the sorority because she decided that whenever she did have free time she'd have a group of girls to go out to the Row with. She and my other roommate both agree that their organizations rely mostly on social activities. I mean, that's what makes them successful and I understand how that is. My other roommate sees the philanthropic requirements as a nuisance, as do many of my friends in GLOs. It's not like since I'm not in a GLO I'm completely unaware of GLO members' mentality. Many girls are very involved in service work, many girls are very driven in their studies; that's a given. However, that seems to come in conflict with their involvement in their sorority rather than enhance their experience. What I'm saying is, it shouldn't be that way.

And hopefully that wouldn't take a new colony, and instead being on probation to have members reexamine the meaning of being Greek. So far it doesn't seem to have that effect, however. I personally see USC's Greek community as what should be the future leaders of a student body already comprised of incredibly involved, talented, well-rounded, intelligent people. And the Greek community already contributes a great deal; I just feel like it's missing the mark in other instances too.

OK, I'm sorry, but I just gotta say it.

How old are you? REALLY?

Heaven knows I love when current students come on here and are well spoken - it reaffirms my faith in the youth of today - but you sound like a 50 year old professor teaching a sociology course. It's more than a tad off-putting.

33girl 04-03-2011 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTD Alum (Post 2043352)
They have a beautiful house too, very modern inside and brand new.

OK, I went to their website to look at the house, and while looking around, I saw that one of their rush events was making friendship bracelets. This is one of the cutest/coolest things I have ever heard of. How nice to be a kid again for half an hour. :)

DeltaBetaBaby 04-03-2011 10:02 PM

Wait, why didn't you accept your bid during formal rush?

KSUViolet06 04-03-2011 10:06 PM



See her rush thread:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=117671

victoriana 04-03-2011 10:22 PM

I can understand why she made the choice she made during formal recruitment, but what I can't understand is how she's bashing the chapters she wanted to be a part of now. I would say you should give Peggy Olson a chance, if you're lucky enough to get one. From what others have said in this thread, it sounds like it would be a good fit for you, even if it's not a stereotypical chapter (which seems to be what you were looking for during formal).

KSUViolet06 04-03-2011 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoriana (Post 2043420)
I can understand why she made the choice she made during formal recruitment, but what I can't understand is how she's bashing the chapters she wanted to be a part of now. I would say you should give Peggy Olson a chance, if you're lucky enough to get one. From what others have said in this thread, it sounds like it would be a good fit for you, even if it's not a stereotypical chapter (which seems to be what you were looking for during formal).

What typically happens:

Girl goes through FR.
Girl has an unfavorable outcome (doesn't get a bid, gets bid and turns it down, etc.)
Girl decides to start local.
Girl bases that on bashing other sororities and what the other sororities aren't doing.
Girl alienates all sorority members.
Girl fails at starting local.
Girl has no shot at all of joining any other chapter because well, she spent an entire year bashing them.

victoriana 04-03-2011 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 2043432)
What typically happens:

Girl goes through FR.
Girl has an unfavorable outcome (doesn't get a bid, gets bid and turns it down, etc.)
Girl decides to start local.
Girl bases that on bashing other sororities and what the other sororities aren't doing.
Girl alienates all sorority members.
Girl fails at starting local.
Girl has no shot at all of joining any other chapter because well, she spent an entire year bashing them.

You're right. It's just sad to watch this in action. The OP seems like a nice enough girl who could do well in a smaller chapter like Peggy Olson and really help turn things around. Wasted potential.

SC2013 04-04-2011 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2043379)
OK, I'm sorry, but I just gotta say it.

How old are you? REALLY?

Heaven knows I love when current students come on here and are well spoken - it reaffirms my faith in the youth of today - but you sound like a 50 year old professor teaching a sociology course. It's more than a tad off-putting.

I'm nineteen! Sorry if that's off-putting...:(

Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules. As such, I decided to reach out to the GC community in the meantime to see if perhaps starting up a new sorority with a 100% clean slate would be an even better bet. I saw that there was a local forum, didn't know much about locals, but asked the question to get the cogs in my brain turning while I bide my time til the fall.

The resounding response is first and foremost I already have to be within the Greek community (which I plan to be for sure) in order to make effective change, and that joining an already established but smaller sorority is better than starting from scratch (which I definitely didn't know). This is the advice I had been seeking so I thank you.

So I hope that we are all actually somewhat on the same page in terms of, you need to become Greek to know Greek to improve Greek. I thought that forming a local could be that "becoming Greek", but maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly. I am not anti-Greek. In any case, I still see the inherent problems of our university's social system (Greek vs. GDI, the Row vs. the University, guys' treatment of girls, girls being ok with it, alcohol being necessary for people to attend things, etc.) and still hope to turn things into a more positive environment, hopefully in the fall in that sorority.

In terms of my prior recruitment: I am not a status hungry person. (If you're wondering, then, why on earth I would want to be the founder of a local, it would be in order not to alienate girls already in a house, a new member coming in with a new mission statement and direction and things. But! You have all said that I would be more effective already in an established sorority for reasons ranging from financial to practical and I appreciate that, because I hadn't considered it and came to you for advice.) I was gung-ho to get very involved with leadership positions in my sorority, but I went to pref for a sorority I felt comfortable in and one I did not. I received a bid to one I did not feel comfortable in, and that one happened to be the house that has trouble during formal recruitment.

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref. (I consider it practically a sacred thing. I'm weird.) Status was not an issue. I mean...starting a local would mean having a group of 8 girls tops, and that's pushing it.
Being a writer, I decided to share my recruitment story with you on GC because I feel like it's an interesting case and in any case learned things that future PNMs could benefit from. But I had moved on, immersed myself in classes, work, volunteering, relationships, and my professional fraternity. Meanwhile my best friend has been going through dilemmas of her own within her sorority, and one roommate dropped hers out of lack of time. It wasn't until these recent USC scandals that I reexamined the Greek system and how we (as in USC, as in the Greek community, as in the media in general) are handling it.

USC students received an email from the administration after the Kappa Sig email, saying how it was wrong, offensive, etc...and then essentially "but someone from Harvard wrote it, thank god it wasn't us! So we're good!" which I and many people felt was a cop out. It was no comfort to those offended by the email, and they would prefer to see something along the lines of, yes it was wrong, and doesn't matter who wrote it, but this is a good opportunity to discuss what caused this email to be written and to discuss how to treat each other with respect. Instead no discussion came of it.
And now recently the Greek system was put on probation, which sucks because a girlfriend said that formal recruitment might be cancelled in the fall if more problems occur this semester. However, the overwhelming response to the punishment has been "shit! When can we party again!?" I say overwhelming but lots of people are negatively affected by this apart from partying. I know because I have friends that are officers in Kappa Sig, other fraternities, other sororities, student government, leaders in Panhellenic, and they often say how difficult it is to make positive change in a group that already has an entrenched history. As a member of a fraternity trying to move forward and be the best we can be, I know how that is. I'm not saying any group is perfect, and I'm not saying that I am better than anyone. I thought that a clean slate might be effective and your advice has been pointing to look elsewhere. So I appreciate your advice and will do so.

DeltaBetaBaby 04-04-2011 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043506)
maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly.

There are many locals that have long histories on their campuses and are very highly respected. There are other locals that are newer, but have a specific purpose that differs from most of the groups in the NPC. Nobody looks down on "locals". We look down on women with founderitis that think starting a local is the solution to their failed formal recruitment attempt.

AZTheta 04-04-2011 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043506)
I'm nineteen! Sorry if that's off-putting...:(

Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules. As such, I decided to reach out to the GC community in the meantime to see if perhaps starting up a new sorority with a 100% clean slate would be an even better bet. I saw that there was a local forum, didn't know much about locals, but asked the question to get the cogs in my brain turning while I bide my time til the fall.

The resounding response is first and foremost I already have to be within the Greek community (which I plan to be for sure) in order to make effective change, and that joining an already established but smaller sorority is better than starting from scratch (which I definitely didn't know). This is the advice I had been seeking so I thank you.

So I hope that we are all actually somewhat on the same page in terms of, you need to become Greek to know Greek to improve Greek. I thought that forming a local could be that "becoming Greek", but maybe I jumped the gun by posting on here without thoroughly scanning the locals forum, where locals are viewed more negatively than I anticipated. I did not realize locals were viewed as anti-Greek-but-trying-to-be-Greek organizations, and that colored my question badly. I am not anti-Greek. In any case, I still see the inherent problems of our university's social system (Greek vs. GDI, the Row vs. the University, guys' treatment of girls, girls being ok with it, alcohol being necessary for people to attend things, etc.) and still hope to turn things into a more positive environment, hopefully in the fall in that sorority.

In terms of my prior recruitment: I am not a status hungry person. (If you're wondering, then, why on earth I would want to be the founder of a local, it would be in order not to alienate girls already in a house, a new member coming in with a new mission statement and direction and things. But! You have all said that I would be more effective already in an established sorority for reasons ranging from financial to practical and I appreciate that, because I hadn't considered it and came to you for advice.) I was gung-ho to get very involved with leadership positions in my sorority, but I went to pref for a sorority I felt comfortable in and one I did not. I received a bid to one I did not feel comfortable in, and that one happened to be the house that has trouble during formal recruitment.

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref. (I consider it practically a sacred thing. I'm weird.) Status was not an issue. I mean...starting a local would mean having a group of 8 girls tops, and that's pushing it.
Being a writer, I decided to share my recruitment story with you on GC because I feel like it's an interesting case and in any case learned things that future PNMs could benefit from. But I had moved on, immersed myself in classes, work, volunteering, relationships, and my professional fraternity. Meanwhile my best friend has been going through dilemmas of her own within her sorority, and one roommate dropped hers out of lack of time. It wasn't until these recent USC scandals that I reexamined the Greek system and how we (as in USC, as in the Greek community, as in the media in general) are handling it.

USC students received an email from the administration after the Kappa Sig email, saying how it was wrong, offensive, etc...and then essentially "but someone from Harvard wrote it, thank god it wasn't us! So we're good!" which I and many people felt was a cop out. It was no comfort to those offended by the email, and they would prefer to see something along the lines of, yes it was wrong, and doesn't matter who wrote it, but this is a good opportunity to discuss what caused this email to be written and to discuss how to treat each other with respect. Instead no discussion came of it.
And now recently the Greek system was put on probation, which sucks because a girlfriend said that formal recruitment might be cancelled in the fall if more problems occur this semester. However, the overwhelming response to the punishment has been "shit! When can we party again!?" I say overwhelming but lots of people are negatively affected by this apart from partying. I know because I have friends that are officers in Kappa Sig, other fraternities, other sororities, student government, leaders in Panhellenic, and they often say how difficult it is to make positive change in a group that already has an entrenched history. As a member of a fraternity trying to move forward and be the best we can be, I know how that is. I'm not saying any group is perfect, and I'm not saying that I am better than anyone. I thought that a clean slate might be effective and your advice has been pointing to look elsewhere. So I appreciate your advice and will do so.

You say you are a writer. Is editing still considered part of the writing process? Please review Grice's maxims or cooperative principles. That's a great place to start.

Print is flat; no facial expressions or intonations to illuminate intentions. That said and understood, your last post still comes across to this reader as preachy and better-than.

Good luck with your fall recruitment, if you should decide to try again. And remember that recruitment is a mutual selection process, so every GLO is looking carefully at the pool of PNMs as well.

crescent&pearls 04-04-2011 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043506)

I had a whole moral dilemma with declining that bid, which you are free to PM me about or check out my recruitment thread. But I would have declined a bid at any house where conversation was forced and stilted during pref.

This is such a mistake, no matter what school you go to, or how "competitive" the recruitment process is perceived to be.

Of course the conversation is stilted! In what other social situation will you be invited to a "party" where it's all women, dressed alike, greeting you by singing or cheering at the door, then pairing you up to have a serious conversation with one to three people you barely know intermittently interrupted by the reading of poems, singing, tossing flowers into fountains or lighting battery operated candles? It's awkward. So what? You're going to spend your whole life experiencing and overcoming a lifetime of awkward social situations but ultimately making friends and meeting career contacts, maybe even finding your true love. People make meaningful lasting connections by doing things together, not trying to impress each other with their social skills.

If you want to join, go through recruitment. If you get a bid, take it and make it the experience you want it to be. That's what the process is really all about!

33girl 04-04-2011 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2013 (Post 2043506)
Anyhow...to clarify. Oh boy. I have every intention of rushing that small sorority that many of you have recommended to me in the fall, but as of now I am ineligible to rush because of formal recruitment rules.

OK, pussyfooting over. Since ellebud called a spade a spade I will too. Peggy Olson was obviously AXO, so who is the "small sorority many of us recommended"? SDT? All I saw was DTD Alum saying that it sounded the most like what you are saying you want. I don't think he outright "recommended" that you rush them after not getting the sorority you wanted in formal rush, turning down the bid you did get, thinking of starting a local sorority, finding out that someone on GC said something negative about locals, and abandoning that prospect.

As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.

If you find SDT to be a good match, super for them, and super for you. But in the meantime, please zip it about how the Greek system has misplaced its values.

AnotherKD 04-04-2011 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2043529)
As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.

I almost spit my coffee out at that!

KSUViolet06 04-04-2011 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2043529)
If you find SDT to be a good match, super for them, and super for you. But in the meantime, please zip it about how the Greek system has misplaced its values.

Especially if you truthfully are "biding your time until fall."

You're pretty much done for if anyone from those chapters sees this thread.

agzg 04-04-2011 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzTheta (Post 2043525)
You say you are a writer. Is editing still considered part of the writing process? Please review Grice's maxims or cooperative principles. That's a great place to start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2043529)
As far as conversation being "forced and stilted" at pref, if you are as loquacious in real life as you are when posting, I question how the sorority member even had a chance to get a word in edgewise.

I have to admit I haven't made it through a single one of the OP's posts. I've been reading what you all have quoted or addressed.

This OP has a major case of tl;dr.

DTD Alum 04-04-2011 01:49 PM

I actually went through and read your recruitment story, and am 99.99% sure I've identified Joan Holliday based on a special feature of their house that only they have (and, of course, am highly curious about the rest, you did a good job giving a lot of detail without giving any of them away). I actually can see how going from Joan to Peggy would be a bit of a disappointment, not solely because of status. Despite what you are saying in your recruitment story, Joan is a chapter that a ton of people want, and in recent years they have even stolen several PNMs from the previous "top" chapters. Not only that but they are spunky and down to earth overall. So I can see how Peggy may have paled in comparison. But ironically, this is also a chapter that sometimes gets criticism for social climbing and partying, so if this is truly how you feel about the row, maybe it's best you didn't get them.

That being said, every chapter at USC is going to have some ambitions about partying and social climbing. Not to mention that most chapters are well over 200, it is impossible to have the true, close ideal of sisterhood. There are simply too many girls. When I was there, most of my friends said you bond with your pledge class, and maybe your big/little's friends if you are close with them. But it's not going to be the same type of bond that exists in a 20 person sorority (which will still have cliques).

If these ideals are really want you want 100%, no chapter at USC (and very few in the USA) will fit the bill. These are chapters filled with 18-22 year olds, hardly the most mature age. There will be girls who only show up to the socials, girls that roll their eyes during ritual, girls that shirk responsibility and openly talk badly about their sisters. Not that there won't be fantastic girls as well that uphold the sorority's values, but the way you've spoken about ideals will just lead to disappointment. This is true even in a colony situation.

Of course, if you take a long deep look and realize that maybe the ideals are because of being burned/bitter, then obviously check into rush/COB next year, but just know that most juniors will get released almost immediately from everybody but Peggy. The juniors that receive bids to other houses are generally those that would have had their full choice of houses if they had rushed as a freshman or sophomore, and tend to be transfers (OR they have insanely close friends in the sorority already).


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