Greek Romantic Troubles.
 

First, I'm half embarrassed to bring this up to most of my sisters and the ones I did never would tell me the truth if it upset me... My friends from home don't really get the Greek aspects of it. So I've come to a message board.


My whole life I've been anti-love, if anything. I grew up in a house with an openly adulterous father and a door-mat mother. To me, love was hurt and pain, not anything you'd ever want to have for yourself. I spend all of high school and my early 20s serial dating, but never trusting anyone enough to get close to them. I was OK with this scenario, I thought it was the best option for humans.


Cue, my current boyfriend. Within minutes of meeting him, I was giddy. I had never been giddy before in my life. He is an amazing guy, he's everything a girl could ever want: handsome, sweet, romantic, understanding... I didn't think guys like that actually existed. I won't pretend like everything is ALWAYS perfect, but I'm happier than I thought I would ever be, and yes, I am totally in love.


Now, current boyfriend is like most people in the world. Had a first love, had a second love, now is dating me. It's hard for me to swallow that, as I've never been in love before, so it's hard for me to imagine that you can just NOT have feelings for someone that you loved anymore, but I've seen it with alllll my friends, so I get it. I get that this is more my issue than his, and for the most part am OK with our relationship and OK with the fact that he has loved before.


Me and boyfriend are not typical college students, in the sense we're a little older. We're not 30 or anything, but we're not 21 either. A lot of my friends are getting married, it's not weird for our age group to talk about it, I don't want anyone to assume I'm 18 and sketching "Mrs. Boyfriend" in my notebook or anything. We're at an age where marriage would be totally normal. We have talked a lot about getting engaged, I'm sure it's coming this year, but being the romantic he is, he would die if he couldn't surprise me with it.


The only sad part to my love story is... because boyfriend has been in love before... he also lavaliered his ex girlfriend. This breaks my heart. Some of his friends in the chapter have girlfriends who have been lavaliered, and when we hang out as a group, it feels glaringly obvious to me that I don't have his letters. When I brought it up to him, he was heartbroken too. He admitted he only lavaliered his girlfriend because she whined about it a lot, and he eventually caved, without much thought for what this would mean in the future. He feels awful about it, he wishes he could 'take it back', but it is what it is. I can understand that... But he doesn't think his chapter would be in support of lavaliering me, considering he already did it, and it didn't work out.


I'm not sure how to feel or what to do about this. Whenever I'm cold in our apartment and I go to grab a sweater, it's a reminder that I'm never going to be able to wear his letters. He said he could give me the lavalier without chapter support, if it meant that much to me, but to me that's just... wrong. I couldn't accept that.


I've talked to one guy in the fraternity who is like a brother to me about the situation. He knows how different and serious our relationship is, but he is also skeptical of the chapter's opinion on it. I'm a well-liked girl at this fraternity and even before we started dating, I was friends with most of the chapter... I'm certain they like me a lot and I have been deeply involved in their fraternity events, etc.


Has anyone ever dealt with a problem like this? Am I putting too much stock into his letters? Would it be weird to get engaged and then go back to the chapter? For guys in fraternities who lavalier, would his past relationship affect your support for him?


I would love, love, LOVE to be a part of something so important to him, I know how much his fraternity means to him... It would be a huge honor to wear them. I just don't know if that's plausible anymore and I should just forget it forever.

qfp

I don't mean for this to sound snippy but...

You have a boyfriend that loves you, you love him, and you consider him not lavaliering you to be a problem? Seriously.. get over it and move on.

Don't turn into his ex who whined about it. It's not that big of a deal. And it REALLY won't be a big deal when you're not in school anymore.

No, please. Be snippy. If I wanted rainbows, I'd stick to my sisters.

Cool. It's interesting because most of my Sorors (sorority sisters) were and still are the least rainbow people in the whole entire world. LOL. You all need to work on being loving and supportive but without the rainbows.

As for the original topic, I agree with ASTalumna. You have to weigh the costs and benefits of things and figure out which things are NOT deal breakers. He lavaliered his ex and can't lavalier the next. Such is life which is why, in my opinion, lavaliering and any other type of letter wearing should be reserved. Afterall, not every sorority and fraternity that has organizations for spouses (which are far beyond girlfriends and boyfriends) allows the spouse to wear the letters.

/end rant

Wait... you can only lavalier one person, ever? I did not know that.

prettyV, do I understand that you are upset because you can't wear his letters? And, you wrote a short essay to GC about not wearing a fraternity lavalier? This is serious and not a joke, right?

Question:What kind of sisters would lie instead of being truthful to avoid upsetting you? That doesn't sit well with me on multiple levels.

OK, then, no rainbows. I am saying, "this is ridiculous." You're hung up on letters, and you may very well blow it with this man if you're expecting an engagement ring.

My advice: go out and do some volunteer work for your philanthropy. Stop thinking about yourself. You're coming across to me as not very mature, and if that's harsh, so be it. That's my call.

Yeah I wasn't going to mention that if you have your own letters, why are you so obsessed with wearing someone else's. The symbolism of lavaliering is only what you make of it.

psy, stop caring whether he can lavalier more than one person. LOL.

ETA: I actually confused psy with prettyv there. :)

I agree with DrPhil and ASTalumna.

While I think lavaliering is really nice and meaningful, I don't condone serial lavaliering. It takes the meaning and pride out of it for me.

You are lucky to have each other and be happy with that.

Yes, you are. They are his letters, not yours. Try to put that much stock in YOUR letters. Who cares if you can't "officially" wear his letters? Wear YOUR letter sweatshirts.

^ This. Some groups can't lavalier or pin at all. Pretend his is one of them. Time to put on your big girl pants, realize its a situation that sucks for you, but it's out of your control. It won't be the first or last. Move on.

Thank you. I genuinely appreciate your advice. I think all of you are probably right about a lot of things. I do, however, put a huge amount of effort and stock into my letters and my fraternity, so that's a little unfair to say.

You are right, though, that I am very immature when it comes to relationships. I readily admit that, and know I have a lot to learn, and a lot of growing up to do in that regard.

when i was in college, lavaliering was akin to "going steady" and like you might wear your hs boyfriends class ring, in college he might give you his lavalier to wear.

if you and your boyfriend broke up in hs, you would give back his class ring. he might then give his class ring to the next girl friend he had. The same mindset works for the lavalier. even if his former girlfriend did not give his lavalier back, he could go buy a new one and give it to you, unless there is a rule against that within his fraternity.

honestly though, it's just an emblem. it is really how you feel about each other and how you treat each other that is important.

I personally feel that you are worrying about the letters too much. Be appreciative of what you actually have instead of going after the symbols that represent it.

In terms of lavaliering, I'd imagine support from his chapter would come with time. Perhaps his brothers sense something that you and he doesn't see. Or, maybe a little bit more time may be necessary. In any case, focus on the relationship itself, and if it's really as strong as you think it is, the lavaliering might just come with time.

I cannot count the number of times I've had friends who've been in relationships which they think are strong, but from my perspective, have issues. That may even include some people who have been exclusively dating for multiple years. They often don't believe me until the breakup actually happens. So, don't get too anxious.

You're quite reflective and responsive so you aren't the most immature person I've ever met or read on GC. :) Give yourself some credit as you did when defending the effort you put into your own fraternity.

BTW, thanks for removing the entertainment potential of this thread. :p

Put his fraternity aside for the moment. Set aside the fact that you are not currently entitled to wear his fraternity's letters.

Do you love him?

That's the question that you need to answer. Do you love him for all that he is - or do you just "love" him because he's a member of XYZ fraternity and you want to be able to wear his letters?

You have made the commitment to moving in together. That's a huge commitment. You don't just move in with someone you don't have feelings for.

Now, if you're really so hung up on being entitled to wear his letters... he can inquire with his fraternity about whether he can lavalier you after he's lavaliered someone else, or whether he can pin you, or whether you can wear his letters after you're engaged or married (if your relationship progresses to that point). Different fraternities have different policies.

:( Sorry. Let me try again.

U guyz are so unfair. We are soooooooo IN LOVE, and you don't get it. His letters look much nicer on a sweatshirt than mine :(


But honestly:
To answer some of the curiosity/logistic questions, there's no "you can only lavalier once" rule in the house, but I there is skepticism. They're fairly selective about what girls they let wear their letters. Most girls are ones who it's obvious that there is a serious future between them. Also, he hasn't ASKED his brothers, it's just obvious to the both of us that there would be at least SOME resistance. Which is absolutely fair. I wouldn't want every girl who claimed to be in love in my fraternity to be able to give our letters to guys. I understand that.

The part I have trouble with is where I am inexperienced. It's not so much about the letters as the fact that he's been in love before, and there's tangible evidence of that? It's hard for me to fathom, but I am pretty bad at relationships/love in general.

I do appreciate your honestly, everyone, even when it stung. My sisters are amazing women with a lot of admirable qualities.... tough love is not one of them.

I like prettyv. :)

Good luck to you and yours.

To answer this, no, this would never be a deal breaker.

:D (And I don't think there are prettier letters than the ones you wear, FWIW!)

Sometimes tough love is exactly what we all need. When I was a teenager, my father once said "you can tell AzTheta anything, as long as it isn't the truth." Boy did that ever sting, but I grew immensely from that comment. He pointed out that I was impossible when I didn't hear what I wanted to hear. Now, *shrug*, I roll with most punches. I grew up, thankfully.

Ditto.

The reality is that this is something you're just going to have learn to live with and deal with, so now is as good a time as any. You can't undo history -- he was in love with someone else. He's not now, but that past experience is (probably) part of what made him who you love now. As long as he's not being insensitive about earlier relationships, accept them for what they were and move on.

As far as his letters go, tell him as long as you have him that's all you care about and don't mention the letters again. If he decides to bring it up with his brothers, that's his business and his decision.

Good luck Prettyv. You seem very level headed and I hope everything works out for the best :)

LOL. I was wondering for a moment there... ;)

Some people are in love a zillion times in their life. Some only once. The one who is in love only once isn't necessarily "more" in love than the zillion-timer.

If anything, thank his whiny ex. She taught him a good lesson - don't cave about important things because it might really screw you down the line.

I was also wondering. LOL. I had to re-read the posts and the usernames. My fault.

Look at it this way: there were probably lots of things wrong with him that he already fixed for you.

Lavaliering is a status symbol. He's already thinking about engagement. I think that says a lot more than a stupid letter drop.

classic case of taking-greek-life-too-seriously.

I am third gen Pike, with two of my uncles AND 4 cousins + my own brother joining Pikes in 11 different schools. So trust me when I say it gets old. Dont get me wrong, I like the tradition and all, but introducing heartaches in relationships on silly premises and traditions suitable for teens is just a tad too much.

Plus, it is not his fault that you were not close to any guy before you met him. How do you expect him to wait for you (retrospectively) in the past while he had a chance of meeting people. Solution: There is none, because I dont see a legitimate problem here.

I don't agree with this at all - that it's only a status symbol - and calling lavaliering "stupid" is pretty whack.

If lavaliering in your experience has been lame, sorry, but that's not everyone's experience and no reason to trash it.

WTF? Why does this even matter? Your uncles' experience gives you more credibility somehow?

Way to bump a thread where the OP got her vent out and came to a good conclusion just so that you could give a (now irrelevant to the OP's situation, I would assume) stupid opinion with a good dash of "Well I know because I am related to 7,000 Pikes" even though that doesn't matter.

RE: Other people's opinions on lavaliering, I tend to be with 33girl. For me, it was just never something I wanted, but that doesn't mean some of my sisters who eventually were lavaliered by their boyfriends didn't see it as significant evolution in their relationships. I do think that most of the women I know who were lavaliered did end up marrying their college boyfriends and they seem to be doing fine. It might not matter after college but there are a crap ton of things that don't matter after college.

Some rainbows: I know of two girls that were lavaliered and the guy is now married to someone else. Their spouse was not lavaliered because of the one-person rule. He just made a mistake, but it'll still work out :)

Waitaminute...what..uhhh...?

You can only lavaliere one person, or at least in every chapter that I've ever known of.

I don't know a single person who was lavaliered; I've heard about it secondhand through friends and GC. I'm sure it has to do with where I went to college, as well as the fact that before college, most of the Greeks I knew were NPHC members. I know it's important to some people, it's just not that important to me.

I do think that it can lead to a lot of insecurity (or even false security) among young women about their relationships. I know of chapters where it was almost a competition to see who was going to get lavaliered first and girls were upset when a friend who hadn't been in a relationship as long got lavaliered. It sounds silly but these things can totally be the end of the world when you're 21.

I was lavaliered, and we ended up breaking up (for which I'm glad because he did intend it to be a precursor to engagement, and we did not need to be married). It was important at the time, and I was very happy since at that time I was leaning towards engagement. However I took a little crap because a couple of other girls had been in relationships with their boyfriends longer and weren't happy he did it before they did. Which soured me a little bit on the whole experience...I think it's a sweet tradition, and it's cute, but it shouldn't be taken so damn seriously.

^ Agreed. It doesn't seem to happen much at my campus, and when it does, it means it's a serious relationship but it's more of a sweet than a very serious thing. We do candle passes for engagements and when a girl is lavaliered, and we've only had one girl be lavaliered. It was very sweet when she blew out her candle because we were all SHOCKED and SUPER excited and she was like, "Don't freak out I'm not engaged!!! But he gave me his lavaliere and a key to his place!" and it was cute :)

You know - I love Greeks for the continued and ongoing use of the word lavaliere. It just doesn't get a work out like it used to.

I met my boyfriend after college. I haven't been lavaliered. But, if I'm at his house and I'm cold--I grab whatever sweater there is--letters or not.

Just sayin....

This thread is the very definition of "First-World Problem"

lol - I think of Chicago

ROXIE: And I'll appear in a lavaliere
That goes all the way down to my waist.

True...she may have "gotten" his letters, but she didn't get his heart. YOU DID!! He has given his heart to you...and it's far more precious. If you get the diamond (read: engagement ring of some variety), then I say the ring trumps the letters.

I understand that it's a little difficult for you to accept right now, but just think long-term on this one...which would you rather have in 10 yrs? His letters...or his ring & his kids? Besides, if it's going to cause some potential for a rift among he & his friends, is it really worth persuing?

Good luck!