Co-Ed Fraternity in need of some serious help!
 

hello everyone the last time i posted a thread on here i got lots of help. I am a member of a local co-ed fraternity and there is tons of drama going on between the other members. From this brother cheated on a sister with another sister to no one wanting to do community service and a big problem with on of our members leaking information to outsiders. I guess im begging for help because this 22 year old organization was left in me and another sisters hands and the other 4 active members are starting lots of problems. is there ANYTHING you can give me to stop all this. And oh yea there are 2 pledges thrown into the mix also.Please i need help.

qfp

i dont understand your reply

Wow...6 members and you have one sleeping with two of the others. You have problems. Sounds like your fraternity has turned into a nightmare hook up club. Good luck, but it sounds like your members have no interest in making your 22 year organization work.

A 22 year old organization and all these issues? If I was you I would quickly start waving the red flag to your Alumi. They might be able to help more then we can. And to be blunt, they would hopefully care more then a bunch of strangers on the interwebs like us.

Quoted for posterity, in case what you originally wrote should . . . disappear.

But, but, they said they'd posted here before. Funny that.

So they did. And went coed after we told them that it might be a BAD idea if not done right. Hmm.

Ahhh, yes.

So in other words, you went co-ed and the only people who joined were people who wanted to get into the current sisters' pants, and that's the only reason they joined?

Unless your alumni/ae (who previously haven't done jack squat) can use some sort of pull to de-coedify you and help you get more members that don't suck, it sounds like your group is pretty much toast.

...and trying to reel this back to constructive...

I don't know much about co-ed fraternities, but organizations I can talk about.

You got six members, which means you don't have an organization at all.

I assume you have some kind of purpose, probably community service based on some principles or other. Clearly the people involved now have lost their commitment and the group in turn has lost their bearings.

Talk to whomever individually about the way forward. Have yourself a come to Jesus meeting. This is what we're about, we're going to get back to that, there's no halfway. Are you in or out. Sign this personal contract committing to XYZ (rules & requirements with consequences, but also flowery soul inspiring stuff).

You'll then have 2-4 people rather than 6, but at least they'll actually want to be there. At that point you forget that it's a 22yo org & start over recruiting like it's brand new. You should have 20 people by the end of the semester and have completed a couple projects - use your projects as recruiting, be creative & network.

That'd be my advice anyway. Good luck to you!

:rolleyes:

Serious question: Why do you assume the bolded? It seems rather unrealistic to me, especially given what the OP has said in this thread and elsewhere -- and the background from elsewhere is why some of the comments made in this thread were made.

A few reasons.

First, I'm not going to chase down the 'elsewhere.' I don't care that much.

Second, I'd rather ignore it and drive on with the question at hand. Maybe they made mistakes in the past. That doesn't negate their right to legitimate answers now.

And third... I take it from the other posts this person was interested in traditional rush and ended up opting for this co-ed thing. I don't know this person. I don't know what actually happened in the real world. Maybe they did try and got cut, maybe it just wasn't for them. Maybe a hundred other things. I don't know, and honestly it doesn't matter. Telling them 'I told you so' doesn't help anyone.

I don't really care what their problems are. I'm quite sure I've seen worse resuscitated - I'm in that process with my Dad's chapter now. The fact remains, any type of group under 20 folks and not otherwise functioning at a high level is in failure mode. Fixing tactical problems at that point is like straightening pictures on the titanic. The only choice is the advice I gave.

Are they going to get on track and to 20 folks by the end of the semester? I don't know. They need a goal, and that's a survival standard. If they don't then they're either done or buying time till they are. This is a doable goal and someone acting like they're passionate about it. I'm not going to tell them to give up and walk away. I just can't be a cynic like that.

No, but it does provide context for their question and additional data for an informed answer.

Nope. That's not what happened. This person was part of the decision to turn a sorority into a co-ed fraternity. If you click on the link I provided above, you see this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiXiOmicron (Post 1923764) hi my name is Maghen and I am an alpha epsilon of Psi Xi Omicron a local sorority at Daemen College in Buffalo New York. I have a lot of questions but no where to turn for answers so I am hoping i can get some help here. My sorority is about 20 years old but we are very close to extinction. Last night me and my sisters were talking about a lot of different ways to help this sorority. I just recently found of that our sorority dos not have any help from alumni. How do we get alumni more involved. Another question is since we are so close to extinction how could we recruit that will bring people in. Another topic that came up is last night was how can we turn our all girl sorority into a co-ed frat.Do you think anyone would be interested in pledging. We just need some guidance can someone help.

The "I told you sos," to the extent there were any, were people responding to this post by warning that going co-ed wasn't likely to be a fix-it-all and might make matters worse.

I'm all for giving the best advice possible, and I can understand not wanting to be cynical. But I'm just not sure under all these circumstances that saying they should have around 20 people by the end of the semester is realistic. If I were them, I'd give myself longer to get there.

Yep. You got me curious & I went back to read the linked over conversation about going co-ed. I would have agreed with yall at the time & felt the told you so aspect now.

But still, whatever the history, there's still only one realistic strategy to fix the problem. And again, telling them to give up & play in traffic isn't acceptable to me. Even if they're in trouble, I'm going to give them an optimistic answer.

I'd only add a couple things knowing the history. Un-co-ed the thing, for a myriad of reasons. It's not helping you. And, quit talking about your alumni. It's possible for them to step in, but you are unlikely to have strong support from them. Your chapter is only 20-something years old. When it's 35-40 years old - when you have a decade of alumni (250+) that are 50-60/kids out of college/independently wealthy/etc then your alumni will start having greater capacity to help you, both financially and in time/attention. Don't look to them to save you. What you can get from them at this point is bonus.

I agree with the piece about making the organization single-sex again, but I don't think "you shouldn't be relying on your alumni" is good advice, especially for an organization as young as this one.

And I agree about going back to single-sex as well. As for alumnae/i, she said in her earlier post they are not involved, so I don't think they should be relying on them now either. Realistically, they can't -- they have to rebuild alumnae relationships, which may be hard while they try to refocus on rebuilding an active membership.

dnall, I think you've given some good advice. My only quibble was with the goal of 20 in a semester. Given what she said here, and looking at a few websites of other sororities on her campus, I'm just not sure that's realistic. 20-30 members looks like it may be the norm for a healthy group (assuming the other groups are healthy.) I'd advocate a slower rebuilding, recruiting freshmen now who will help with a multi-year rebuilding process.

For an organization that young and that small, the alumnae (whoops, forgot it was a sorority) involvement is necessary. They obviously need some advising, and the "OMG we're in danger of dying out" spiel is often more eye-opening than "Hey we want you to come around for a BBQ"

Right, but alumnae support currently isn't there. As great as it would be to have alumnae involved, my guess is that bulk of them don't really care. If there are alumnae who want to be involved, great. But they can't make the alumnae be involved, so they need to plan without them.

And she said that we helped her a lot, yet she ended up doing the exact opposite of what we suggested. So some of us found it odd she was looking for advice here.

Any national GLO that goes on a campus will start by building an interest group around 20. It seems daunting, but it's not that hard the way they do it. I'm not saying all 20 of them will stick around long-term, but they create a foundation to move through that re-building phase. They have a lot of work ahead of them and they need help to share the load.

As far as alumni... I don't really know what to say. It's not a national GLO, so there's no power structure that gives a theoretical alumni board authority over the chapter. If there was, then sure they could step in & forcibly throw people out &/or order changes. If they had no alumni involvement, but a national HQ then national would step in to do that stuff. As it is, all they could get from alumni is a glorified pep talk.

I'm not saying that's bad, but it seems unrealistic to get the people to even do that. With a 22yo org, those alumni have kids, jobs, mortgages, etc consuming the majority of their lives. Finding a group of people that can be deeply involved would be difficult, and I don't see that their powerless involvement could necessarily turn the tide.

So, I wouldn't count on alumni. I wouldn't waste time with the stupid interpersonal issues. I'd just clean house to get back on message. Then go find a bunch more people to get this thing back on its feet.

A national expansion team would be down there looking at non-greek folks in student govt, other orgs, RAs, intramural teams... you can string a lot of people together that bring different strengths to the equation. And watch all these videos: http://www.ato.org/Undergraduates/re...cruitment.aspx

Right, but she's in a local at a campus with around 3000 students, no national GLOs, and sororities that seem to be 20-30 members max. In her campus culture, going from 2 or 3 to 20 people in one semester just may not be realistic, and it could bring its own problems.

I'd advocate more for a goal of doubling membership every semester for the next 2 years, and making sure that the new members will be hard-working assets, not just warm bodies.

Apples and oranges...

I just don't think doubling to 4-6-8 people would matter. It's still not viable. There's no synergy, you can't accomplish much, the work load is overwhelming, and it's not sustainable.

Most of us are used to a traditional growth paradigm that works over the long-term in an established org, but not at all in an expansion-like situation. I shared that link to the phired-up stuff. That's more the view an expansion team would take coming onto a campus. Within that paradigm, it certainly is possible to pull together 20 people in almost any circumstance, including I think this one. I didn't say it's easy, and they do have to go way out of the box. But, I mean this is a group that went co-ed at one point. I don't see that unconventional is beyond them.

They went co-ed around 2.5 seconds ago (read her other posts). And in case you didn't get it...

You are thinking in a paradigm that is not applicable to the situation presented. A national's expansion is not comparable to a local's continued existence, just as a "traditional growth paradigm" is not applicable here.

A handful of people is more realistic than reaching 20.

No they don't. Time to get back in your lane.

I know it's not the same as a national expansion model. But, there's a lot that can be learned from it. In particular, I'm trying to highlight some of the recruiting blitz tactics and goals they use to grab a foundation group real fast. I do think that's applicable.

Of course any number less than 20 is more realistic than 20. It also doesn't matter.

As counter-intuitive as it may at first seem, you can't set the goal on how hard it is to accomplish. The objective is survival, what's it take to achieve that, therefore the goal is X and we have to do whatever it takes to reach it or we fail.

From my experience, that's 20ish. Without an established org and a significant training pgm (new member process) to build strong dedication under a functional leadership hierarchy, you're going to lose 30-50% of whatever you recruit, especially with summer in the way. Anything less than around 20 & they're probably DOA when Fall semester starts. Even at 20, they have a fight to stay alive through Christmas. Until they can reestablish a sustainable base, which is probably above 20, than it'll always be a survival struggle.

I know at a 3000 campus that seems daunting. Just blind guessing, say it's 1k girls not otherwise affiliated, that's still a whole lot. If they move beyond traditional methods, treat it like they're restarting a new group from scratch, and cast a wide net... I really do think it's doable.

What's the worst that can happen by aiming too high anyway? They end up with less? Fine. Some of yall think that's adequate anyway. So, what's the problem? I'd rather aim high and settle for a little less than aim low and only try hard enough to get my goal.

Pineapple.

Fraternity expansions are completely different animals. You need to step the fuck out of this lane before Barbie drives her pink semi rig through it.

For the record, local GLOs aren't the only GLOs that don't need as many as 20 interests-turned-applicants to charter a chapter. Some NPHC orgs don't require as many as 20 interests-turned-applicants.

Or they could give up out of frustration and weariness at trying to reach unattainable goals. Or their reputation takes a further hit because they try to do too much too quickly and fail.

I don't know about Daemon, but on many similar campuses Greek life is barely tolerated at best. They may have all they can handle just to double their numbers, particularly if what reputation they have has taken a major hit this past year. A realistic, workable and successful plan of action has to take into account the specific culture of the campus involved and of the Greek community involved.

For my money, I'd rather recruit five good, solid members in one semester than 20 warm bodies, half of whom you say will fall away in the first summer. The last thing they need is more people who aren't dedicated and won't hang on.

First of all... Unless I'm mistaken, at no time other than examples have I mentioned fraternity expansion. I said national GLO expansion. AND, when I said it, I ONLY said there are SOME ASPECTS of that process helpful to this situation - specifically, the initial blitz recruiting methods.

In no other way does anything I've said have anything to do with any type of greek org, be it NIC, NPC, NPHC, local, co-ed, or freakin green martians. This is broad organizational dynamics.

Second... I don't think it's possible to recruit 5 "solid members." No matter what their capabilities or what they say, there is not depth of dedication. They aren't invested by having been around, & haven't come through a training process with an established org under functional leadership that produces religious commitment. So, no matter who or how many people you recruit, a big chunk of them will not be around by Aug.

The people that are committed... they have a tremendous amount of work ahead to get this group to stand-alone self-sustaining, refocused on their purpose, and doing something in the direction of their mission. Whatever "good members" you do get, you're going to burn them out fast because there's just not enough people to do the work.

I'm not saying 20 because most national GLOs target that number as an initial foundation, and they don't target that number because everybody's doin it. I'm saying that number because it's about the minimum that can endure the attrition and do the work while still recruiting fresh meat to the grinder.

Yes, setting a higher goal is formidable. The task of refloating this org is a hundred times harder. The odds against this org are very very steep already. I don't think the pressure of recruiting 20 versus 5 people makes a whole lot of difference in that equation. If they aren't all in against the odds, they're already done.

You didn't have to say fraternities because NPC does NOT start out that way. We don't get a interest group of 20 or so women to start our new chapters. You might want to check out the expansion threads around here. NPC chapters generally start out with a formal recruitment that targets women of all ages to begin a chapter at about "Chapter Average." This works for NPC because of the rules that govern NPC. We don't go around advocating our methods to others BECAUSE we know that the playing field is different for other groups.

You're using national GLO expansion as your basis here. These are not national GLOs.

Except the assumptions you're making are based on national GLOs. (And specifically the type YOU are used to.)

This is not necessarily true. Entire NPHC chapters may consist of 5 people. IFC fraternities can also be smaller and not dying. Your perception is again, based on a specific type of national model. Five solid members means five solid members.

Again, you're only going to burn them out if a) you insist on recruiting 20 people or b) you're assuming the level of workload of a specific type of national chapter. What exactly is going to cause burnout?

And this is why we're saying you've got it wrong here. This is not a national GLO it does not have the work of a national GLO there doesn't have to be a meat grinder process. (And yes, national GLOs frequently do target a number based on what everyone else is doing). Additionally this is NOT the number a typical NPC sorority looks for and NPHC/MCGLO orgs aren't even on your radar. It's pretty obvious you're basing this on your experience with national fraternities at the school(s) you're familiar with.

It's not about whether it's formidable or not.

Just in case you didn't know "Stay in your lane" means you're giving advice that's inappropriate to the situation. All of us, as greeks, are generally capable of providing general advice to other greeks or people who want to be greek. But sometimes we're inexperienced in the ways of other organizations. In those cases we're told to 'stay in our lane' or sometimes 'shut up.' It's not personal, but it means you're providing BAD ADVICE. Instead of insisting how right your advice actually is, how about you take a step back and think that maybe, just maybe, people with experience working with small local organizations might know what the hell they're talking about? And that people who have been in sororities know better than you how many people a sorority expansion looks for?

This is not about broad organizational dynamics and even freakin green martians see that point by now. The problem with being opinionated-regardless-of-anything-else is that you're opinionated-regardless-of-anything-else. I don't care whether you curb that for GC because you make for good entertainment. I just hope you know the difference in real life.

No.

More importantly, smart people don't really come to Greekchat for advice. The OP's organization can figure this out on their own with or without the opinions of GCers. If they can't then that's also their problem.

I'm obviously in need of a new sig and this just might be it.

At my old school 20 was considered a large fraternity. Most of the, hovered around 10-15. It worked fine for them. IF the people that are being recruited are quality, attrition isn't as big as an issue as you seem to assume.

I think setting goals like 20, more than 20, 15, etc is weak because it binds you to those goals. If you get 8 pledges but you wanted 20 you're discounting those new guys. Those 8 could totally change the chapter and make it better, yet you're upset about not having 20.