Protests In Wisconsin
 

I didn't see a thread for this already but sorry if I missed it!

I raised this on Monday in the "what do you feel like saying right now" thread but things have changed pretty dramatically since then. I've never seen anything like this in Wisconsin before.

I'll post pictures & info when I have the chance. Here's an article that appeared in the Times that is not at all in-depth but gives a decent overview.

And, our Democratic representatives are MIA; they're boycotting the vote on the bill. See: Search for lawmakers continues.

This is actually going on in Ohio as well, although the protests haven't reached the peak they have in Wisconsin.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index....hio_state.html

Yeah I've been hearing mumblings of something in Ohio but hadn't seen much coverage. Thanks for the update!

Here's a link to a gallery..."The 45 Best Protest Signs at the Wisconsin Capitol"

I wouldn't be surprised if things don't get bizarre in Michigan too. The new Republican governor just announced his budget plan and it includes more cuts to education, which is really sad. Education has taken the hit repeatedly.

Wisconsin's isn't cutting education. It is severely limiting the collective bargaining units and requiring public employees to contribute 5.6% to their retirement accounts (current contribution is .2%) and 12.8% of their health care premiums (currently 4-6%).

The 'missing' Senators were found down in Rockford, IL. I am not sure when they would be coming back. Personally, that is not cool as they are being paid to do a job and have basically walked off that job. I'm also not happy with the teachers who closed down schools by calling in sick so they could go to the Capitol to protest - that shows the kids really ARE a priority (sarcasm). . . .

Walking out is not something that teachers do lightly. (Or any union I'd say.) I'm fairly union-neutral but acting like it means they don't care or did it for 'fun' or something misses the point entirely.

when unions pay for the buses and over 40% of a school district's teachers (Madison to be precise) call in 'sick' and force the closure of the district for 2 days (probably more), that I have a problem with. I feel there is a time and a place for unions (and I have been a member of two different unions). If private school teachers were to pull that (calling in sick enmass to close schools, etc) they would be fired. Public school teachers might get a slap on the wrist. How is walking off your job so you can protest having to pay more of your health insurance premium and contribute to your retirement account the best interest of your students? Gov. Walker has the National Guard on alert in case the prison guards decide to have a 'sick-in'.

Yes, I have read the entire bill (it's on the state legislature website) and I do approve of it for the betterment of the state. HOWEVER, I am represented by one of the Senators who decided to flee to Rockford, IL (Clock Tower Resort to be specific). She will eventually vote against this bill, which is fine because MOST of the people in this area work in union jobs (paper mills, teachers, city and county employees, University employees, nurses, etc). THAT is our democracy (and no, I didn't vote for her for state senate or her failed attempt this past November for a Congressional seat).

The Madison (to be precise) School District chose to close down, as a district. This was announced to parents and students in advance. The way you describe it makes it seem like teachers just didn't show up, but really the district (and I think at least 16 others in the state) intentionally cancelled school.

The democratic delegation fled to avoid giving the Republican delegation quorum. It's a legitimate way to prevent allowing the bill to go forward. If having quorum is necessary to allow a vote, not showing up is an option.

Really? The front page of today's Journal Sentinel (a paper that endorsed Walker, btw) told a completely different story today.

Actually they have been called to the floor and HAVE to show up. Not showing up is NOT an option. They ran to IL so the Wisconsin State Patrol has no authority to escort them back to work. The funny thing is, for the past 8 years the Democrats have had the majority and the Republican minority never threatened to leave the state to stop a vote for taking place.

And the Madison school district closed the schools because 40% of the teachers called in sick. . . .that's a LOT of subs and most don't have that sort of sub list. If the teachers called in the day/night prior it is easy for the district to make a decision and let the parents know. That sort of system is already in place for snow days. That still does not make it in the best interest of the students for schools to close down like this.

Have you actually READ the bill?! http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

I did. Do you realize what the budget for MPS currently is? Without this proposal?

While I am all for making cuts where necessary, this is not the way to do it.

Should public employees take a cut in these hard economic times? Yes. But there is no reason whatsoever to destroy collective bargaining, union benefits, and educational funding.

In addition, his (and Biddy Martin's) ideas to separate UW system are ridiculous. That's another story though....

Directly from Wisconsin's Senate Website:

http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gat...senate%20rules

So basically, this is NOT unheard of. The Republicans can choose to find the Democrats and "compel" them to attend the session OR adjourn.

Exactly (to your bolded). For someone who claims to have read the bill, Beryana ruined all her(?) credibility by pulling the "children aren't a priority" card.

Sure did.

To be honest, your sentence is a punctuation nightmare, so I may have misread it. I thought you were saying the forthcoming budget proposal wouldn't make any cuts into education. I was just curious how you knew so much more than all of the education officials mentioned in the Journal Sentinel's article today.

Maybe Werwie just got back to you first.

I can't prove it to you people since none of you work in my office but I just wanted to tell you that I called it that the Dems would be found in Rockford, Illinois.

Also, I talked to my SIL in NY State and she said the teacher's union there has been talking about possible courses of action should something similar happen in NY (and it might - NY is in terrible financial shape right now).

And I should care what you think, why? But then again, I did forget I should keep my thoughts and opinions to myself around here. . .

The only non-academic, current news articles that I have read in recent weeks were yesterday and today. I am not an 'education expert', nor do I read the Milwaukee paper (or Madison, Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, etc.). I am basing my statements on what I have read in the bill. I still like the bill and am still disappointed the Senate Democrats had to pull theatrics and are basically not willing to discuss/debate the issue (and my Senator sits on the Finance committee which drafted this bill). Please explain how this bill affects education funding? Without the unions the education system will completely fall apart? I have only attended a publicly or state funded school for 4 years out of 21 years of school (Kindergarten, senior year of college and 2 years of graduate school) so, maybe, I just do not completely understand how this bill directly affects education funding. I would love to be enlightened.

As to 'compelling' the Senate Democrats to show up for work, they left the state so the State Patrol could not 'escort' them back. AOII Angel, since it is not unheard of, please explain when the entire minority party of a Wisconsin legislative house has left the state to avoid a vote on a bill.

Obviously you care to some extent or you wouldn't have bothered sharing. Your choice to do so, means that people get to reply to your posts. Welcome to the internet. However instead of commenting on what you read in the bill you decided to claim that teachers didn't care about children which is an oft-used slam against unions and patently untrue. When people say things that are false, other people stop listening to them - *poof* credibility gone. Similarly many people stopped listening to the governor when he threatened to call out the National Guard (who very politely told him to shove it.)

And if you don't think that the attempt to quash collective bargaining would have any significant effect on public schools when most if not all public school teachers are in the union, yeah I'm pretty sure the system falls apart even if only temporarily while schools have to rehire/restructure/etc.
Are you aware that although a bill may not specifically state that it is cut funding in a certain area the intended effect is to cut that funding? Also, legislators often propose multiple bills that have a cascading effect. Here is just one article discussing the effects of the cuts on education which are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. In this article, the governor does not deny the cuts, simply saying that he wants to offset them with other income. Which would seem to confirm the interpretation of the "education leaders" described.

This article describes how the proposed budget cuts will be 'offset' by the 'savings' caused by the current bill. As the same people are proposing both the budget and the current bill these things tend to work together to create action.
To the people who voted for those Democrats, odds are they're doing exactly the job they were hired to do. If their constituents want them to protect their jobs/rights to unionize then they're doing their best to make sure the bill doesn't pass, aren't they?

Additionally, don't you think it's odd how police and firefighter unions were left alone and will still have all their rights? Like maybe this isn't about principle because it's not applied to public employee unions across the board? It's almost as if they don't want to piss off certain groups, who maybe vote for them.

Drole, thank you for explaining this to her (?). I'm beat and I don't have time to start at square one so I'm glad you had the patience...I was just going to tell her(?) to read a newspaper or brush up on civics but you broke it down quite eloquently.

The government workers yet again acting embarrassing.

Here is the report from the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau which determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million. (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf). Please note the date on the memo: January 31, 2011. This memo has NOTHING to do with the passage of the bill.

Where then is the $137 million dollar deficit coming from? If you continue to read the memo, it shows nearly 1/2 of this deficit comes from programs Walker has pushed through, including a $67 million for a tax incentive plan that benefits employers and $48 million for private health savings accounts.


This is just from the fiscal point of view. This has nothing to do with money. This about the fact that a single bill is busting unions and ruining education in Wisconsin.

If you care at all for the future of the state, you can't cut education. There was an article in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about a year ago which went over the data from high school and college graduations in the state. Most students in the top 10% of their class left the state, for either college or careers. The article went on to discuss how incentive needed to be created to keep these students in the state, because the state's financial situation would soon deteriorate as well.

When you cut education budgets, you are really just shooting yourself in the (metaphorical) foot twenty years down the line.

A link to the Capital Times Article which more eloquently goes over the financial situation I eluded to above: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opin...c8b2aaaf6.html

You realize there are other states besides Wisconsin, right? In Texas, they were called the Texas Eleven, and they were gone for 46 days. They got important concessions, even though the bill they objected to did eventually pass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Eleven

The reason they did it, and why the Senators are doing it now, is that the Republicans have enough votes to pass the bill right now, but there are a couple of Republican Senators who might waver in their support of the bill. The goal is to keep public pressure on those Senators (prolonging the demonstrations) so that they flip and the bill does not pass. They are very much "showing up to work" despite what people say on TV. They're representing their constituents the only way they can, at this point, and it's a legitimate political tactic.

Something I've noticed is that people don't understand the difference between Quorum and passing a bill, which is surprising to me.

If this is a sound tactic then I suggest anytime a party is in the minority they flee their respective state and deny the chambers they belong to a quorum. Then nothing will be accomplished. Of course, one is elected to serve all the people of ones district/area including those that did not vote for you.

The Republicans should learn from this and use it when they are the minority. Works for me.

Wish the Republicans had used it on the Health Care Bill but then the Democrats would have blasted the minority for shirking their responsibilities to their constituents and would have probably tried to have them arrested.

Oh yeah, I remember that the Texas Eleven were fleeing because of redistricting. That is perfectly excusable as they were protecting their own jobs. In NC the Democrats have controlled both or at least one chamber of Congress for over 110 years. They have controlled the redistricting during all this time. Never once have the Republican members of the Senate or House fled the state to keep the Democrats from drawing new districts. This year the Republicans have both Chambers and will redraw the lines. We will see if the Democrats flee the state. Should be interesting.

So because they are NOT protecting their own jobs and they are protecting the interests of their constituents, this is not acceptable? I'm sorry: I'm just trying to understand what you're saying here.

A friend's video. http://vimeo.com/20089255

These Democrats are protecting people's jobs, too. Actually, it might be more "noble" of them considering that they're not protecting their own jobs, but those of their constituents. WHY a lot of people think it's a legitimate tactic, at this point, is because they believe there is simply too much at stake here to let the bill pass and have it killed in the courts.

Sidenote: If you people are on t_witter, you need to be following @MayorEmanuel. His account of what went down between the Wisconsin Dems and his crew (including Quaxlerod) last night is most hilarious.

What I am saying is that they are elected to serve all their constituents not just the majority that elected them. This means that they show up for their work at the assigned location and do their job. One does not flee their state because you want to protect your job. IMO this is not an acceptable practice. This goes for anyone who wishes to use this practice whether Republican or Democrat. I was being facetious in my remarks.

If I am not mistaken the Governor of WI is suggesting these cutbacks in order to keep from laying off teachers. The whole thing is that the Unions feel threatened. The hell with the kids that these teachers were hired to teach. It is all about the teacher and the power of the Union. I would fire them all and hire from the ranks of the numerous college grads who are underemployed/unemployed.

By that count, Republicans voting for the bill should be taking cpnsideration from all those in their constituency protesting, and vote no. Or vote "1/2 no, 1/2 yes".

In addition, showing up to the capitol building is not equal to doing their job. They aren't taking vacationing in Rockford, IL. They are doing their job by blocking the passage of the bill. By "not showing up to work", they have ensured that coverage of the bill will go on longer, and more pressure will be applied to those Republican voters who are wavering on passage of the bill. In addition, this gives more time for negotiation, so perhaps the collective barganing agreements can be changed.

Finally, how does fleeing the state protect their jobs? I'm hoping you are talking about the Texas Eleven here, because there is no way these senators are protecting their jobs by leaving the state. They are making a bold move to try and protect what the constituents desire.

Please see the financial report linked above. There is no need to lay off teachers if other unnecessary programs pushed through in the last few weeks had not been pulled.

You are, actually. He initially told us his alternative was dropping 200,000 kids from Meidcaid, but that's not exactly legal. He then acknowledged he "didn't check before making the statement."

According to the State's Fiscal Bureau, Wisconsin was actually supposed to have a surplus. Read the memo here.

Walker&Co then gave away hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks, effectively creating a crisis.

He then proposed taking away the rights of union workers and called it "budget repair," despite the obvious disconnect. I mean, if he wants to bust the unions he should just say that; instead, he's pretending it's about the budget.

Wasn't there an article about how someone proposed to keep the cut in benefits but allow for collective barganing and union dues to remain, and he shot them down, saying it wouldn't save the crisis?

I wish I could find that article: it really speaks to what is going on with this bill.

I read the link and it addresses the fiscal year 2011. The projection is for a 3.6 billion budget shortfall for the next 2 years. Read this:

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...n_state_budget#

Correct. The budget shortfall is for the next 2 years, because of the additional $140 million/year in highway costs, $68 billion in employer benefits, and other programs Walker pushed through.

If he wanted to fix the fiscal crisis, he SHOULD NOT have caused it.

It's the Republican way. The rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer. And then that same person will gripe about how other countries are beating us out in math and science test scores. Well of course, because you aren't going to attract the brightest and best to teaching jobs if you aren't paying them enough to live on.

A typical teacher in Milwaukee makes ~$60K in salary with another ~40K in benefits thrown in.

My daughter who teaches in NC makes ~$35K in salary and another $25K in benefits. She lives in one of the most expensive areas of NC which is very comparable to Milwaukee.

I have been to WI numerous times on business trips and the standard of living there vs. NC is not very different.

The teachers in WI are not the "poor" by any stretch of the imagination.

I suggest all those out there who say not enough taxes are taken from the "rich" make a pledge to file only 1040 EZ so they pay the maximum amount of taxes without the deductions offered on the long form. That way you can pay your fair share before you take from others. After that is done by the Gates, the Kennedy's, the Heinz-Kerry's, the Pelosi's, the Boxer's, the Huffington's, the Clinton's, the Gore's of the land I will no longer call them hypocrites. Don't tell me I am not paying enough when loopholes are there and used by these libs to their own benefit. Time for all these people to put their money where their mouth is. Maybe a check off box is needed on the forms that allows only the maximum taxes to be calculated and paid. This should help the poor and soothe the consciences of the liberals. But I bet nobody would check off the box.:rolleyes:

This is wrong. The mean annual wage in Wisconsin for an Elementary School teacher is $51,240/year. (Bureau of Labor Statistics) For middle school it's $50,950, and for high school it's $54,720. Typical implies average, and mean and median refer to average, but the "typical" teacher is, in fact, not making "about $60,000."

In Milwaukee, specifically, according to Salary.com, the median wages for an elementary school teacher is $52,401/year. For high school it's $54,639. According to the BLS the mean for elementary is $56,370, for middle school is $52,610, and for high school is $54,620.

Also, these numbers are the MEANS and MEDIANS, meaning, there are people above and below these numbers because they don't account for experience, number of years teaching, educational background, etc. There sure are teachers making $60,000 a year - but they've been in that district for a while. While we're at it, the 10% and 25% marks run from $32,962 to $43,292, which is quite a bit less than $60,000. 90% tops out at $72,865, which is $12,000 more than $60,000.

ETA because I was curious: According to Salary.com the area with the most parity to Milwaukee in terms of cost of living in NC is the Charlotte area, which is 4.4% lower than Milwaukee. The median salary for an elementary school teacher in that area is $50,974, and for high school is $53,151.

If an elementary teacher making the median from Milwaukee (making $52,401 per year) were to move to Charlotte, NC, to make the median there ($50,974), according to the cost of living calculator on salary.com they would have a $22/year negative net change in disposable income.

It's really hard to use personal evidence and weigh it against statistics, since you have no idea what the "average" teacher tenure is in Milwaukee (maybe it's 20 years!), or what the educational requirements are (some districts still allow teachers to be licensed with just a BA, while others require one Master's and will increase your salary considerably if you get a second).

I'm not sure what they want--do they not want to pay more for their retirement and health benefits, or do they want to keep collective bargaining?

To the first, I say welcome to the real world. I pay considerably more than these people do towards my 401(k) and health care, and I have what are considered "excellent benefits" for the private sector. Also, the fact that you're still guaranteed a pension is nothing short of amazing. Its the complaints I've been hearing about this which is probably why they're not getting a whole ton of sympathy about this from the rest of the state and country.

To the second, I can see keeping collective bargaining. I'm union-neutral at best (probably just anti-union), but I understand how it can help public employees to some extent.