Smoking In-House
 

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This isn't directly addressing your question, but I would imagine most groups would not want any smoking indoors due to smoke damage/smell and the risk management potential in case of a fire.

This would be my first concern. Candles usually arent allowed either for this same reason.

I would check your risk management & facility policies. If they prohibit smoking in the chapter facility then that rule needs to be upheld regardless of what the pro-smoking voting faction thinks. If nothing is stated in your rules/policies about it, I would double check with your HQ/advisors. If they tell you it is a chapter issue, then bring it up for a chapter vote and let the membership decide.

Your national organizations policies may override your local chapter policies. Double check with a representative from HQ.

Yes.

As a smoker, I can say I would not allow smoking in the basement. If the house reeks of it, then you've got a problem. If its in a party setting, I also think thats crap. People can smoke out the back door or only allow brothers to smoke outside and no one else.

I think the biggest problem is the fire hazard. If you do keep smoking in the basement make sure to have a number of ashtrays or a bucket of water for the butts or something.

Agree with all the above, and I'm also a smoker. There's no smoking in my apartment...my roomate and I both go outside and if it's too cold we put on Uggs and parkas. It won't kill them to light up outside.

And to add to the fire hazard, let me just tell you it's just about impossible to get that smell out of carpet or furniture. Don't make it worse. It will also yellow blinds and some white paint.

^^^ Ditto, from another smoker.

How I personally see it is that it should be restricted to the outside.

People can even camp outside when it's -40 deg (F or C, choose your favorite unit). As such, smokers can just dress up very warmly and get their 10min break outside.

Here's the issue:
- Nonsmokers suffer a lot more second-hand smoke when there is less ventilation.
- Having a house reek of smoke turns away people, and that is a more serious issue than attracting the attention of police.
- The smell of smoking is almost permanent.
- Smoking indoors poses a fire risk.
- If attracting police with the smoking is a real issue, you have other risk management issues to look at.
- Everyone knows it's unhealthy; you shouldn't do anything to encourage it. It's not unreasonable to make all of them satisfy their addiction outside.

If your house is reeking indoors I would look into a ventilation system. It shouldn't be throughout the whole house if you contain it in one room.

Once you get that settled, I would continue to allow it in the basement. Smoking is a legal activity for adults over the age of 18. If there are people who don't want to attend your parties or visit your house because you allow it, that's their prerogative.

Isn't a ventilation system the reason why the smoke is circulating through the house in the first place? The sort of smoke-filtering ventilation systems that prevent cigarette smoke from circulating are reaallly expensive if the restaurants I've seen in St. Louis are any indication.

Quit smoking.

It makes your breath stink, it makes your lungs dirty, and then you die!

[/RudyHuxtable]

Besides the prior suggestions, all rather good, I have one more:
Are there any rules, laws, policies outside of your Chapter and/or
National Fraternity that may also come in to play?

There are many parts of the county that you can not smoke inside
any more.

While you seem to have been doing it for some time now, has any looked at or asked about School, City, State laws?

In my Chapter, we had one room, and one room only, that one could smoke in. And it was on the top floor with good ventilation.

There is no place in the country that disallows smoking indoors. There are places that disallow smoking in a work place or a public place, but not "indoors".

Right. When Arlington TX was introducing its ban, we were only allowed to smoke in places that had specific ventilation systems in place. Once the ban went into full effect, only places that were "bar bars" allowed smoking.

I'm thinking the same thing.

And as others have said if people smoking outside attracts police, there are other issues afoot. If you have too many people outside at once, just have someone come ask those that are finished smoking to come inside. And when it's freezing, they won't want to stay outside anyway.

Stale smoke makes me ill and my mother is actually allergic to it. I think for a fraternity house where both smokers and non smokers live and where parties are held it's best to keep the smoking outside. There are plenty of people that not only won't want to go there, but won't be able to without feeling ill after a while. IMO the smokers are being whiny. It's just not that hard to go outside for five minutes to have a smoke then come back in.

AGDee-I am not sure if I am following or understanding your posting.
Most, if not all, offices buildings I have either worked or walked into have "No-Smoking" signs posted.

NYC has a major non-smoklng policy. As do other cities.

My guestions was, and is, asking if there are any bans or controls on smoking in dorms or any living quarters. Or school related buildings for that matter.

Just because smoking attracts police, doesn't mean there are other RM issues. If a cop is driving by and sees a large group of people smoking in front of a house, he could think there is a party there.

I'd say smoking in front of the house during a party is a risk management issue

Is there a reason people aren't smoking in the back of the house? The young folks make things way too difficult lol

Her posting means that no place has said "Smoking is not allowed indoors." That would mean no one could smoke in their own home. What many places have done is say something like "Smoking is not allowed in a public building" or "This is a smoke-free building." Banning smoking in public buildings =/= banning smoking "indoors."

Same here. I don't get what the big deal is. You walk out back, smoke, come back inside.

The OP's house is probably off-campus in a residential neighborhood with neighbors who complain about the noise of people smoking out back. At least that's the case for most chapters at my university.

And since it will probably be asked, at my chapter no one is allowed outside to smoke, period, because of noise issues. Smoking is not permitted inside.

Forgive my ignorance with this question, but I've never smoked so I've never encountered this problem...but so then what do the smokers in your fraternity do? Do they go down the street to smoke? Are you just known as a "no smoking" fraternity on your campus?

I hope people aren't going outside in groups of 300 to smoke. My chapter's houses were both off-campus, so if we went outside, we went out in groups of no more than 5.

And smoking is not permitted outside or inside?

Thank you MC :)

Sorry I should have been clearer. My campus does not recognize Greek housing, so by "house" I mean the place where brothers live and we occasionally have parties. Basically, during parties no one smokes, beyond that situation you just go outside.

I have learned, the hard way, that one should not make general sweeping comments.
In the past few months the news carried stories from NYC that laws were being looked at in controlling out-door smoking in public areas.
And that is the only story I remember-there could be more.

And the point of my questions was not really totally based on heath issues.
I was think more along the lines of public safety and risk management. There have been a rash of fires in dorms and other campus/student housing units caused by smoking and open flames.

And that would be a whole separate issue from private housing or homes.

We have seen, all too may times, that rules, policies, and laws are very different between jurisdictions.

So it would be well worth a look if one is reviewing polices.

Yeah, "ventilation system" was probably not what I meant. What I meant was "look at why the smoke that's contained to one room with a heavy door is filtering into the other rooms." But that was really long to say.

And yes, there are some places (depending on where the house is) where the townies will call the cops if a fraternity guy farts too loud. The last thing you want is people complaining of butts in their yard - the fraternity will get the blame even if it wasn't them doing it. The townie kids are well aware of this and take advantage of it.

If you're a non-smoker, there probably is nothing that can be done that you won't smell the smoke throughout the house. Especially since it's in the basement and probably seeps up through the whole house that probably has air ducts going throughout. I don't know if smokers don't notice, but non-smokers do. Having to smoke outside the house or apartment or building is a pretty common occurrence and I suspect this house is more unusual than not and the smokers (as well as the "I only smoke when I drink"-ers will have to suck it up and go outside in the cold to smoke eventually.

Or you know, not smoke, but that's another issue.

If it's between the house being smelly and losing a charter or harassment from the cops because people are outside...I'll take a smelly house. I know all the Rob Reiners out there are saying "just quit" but that's really not the issue. This is something that involves guests as well as fraternity members.

I don't believe that they're going to lose their charter for smoking outside. Nor do I suspect that if we're really talking 5 people outside smoking at a time that the cops are really getting called. Plenty of people have mentioned alternatives. And for non-smokers, the smelly house isn't generally worth it.

Their house smells (per the OP) and people are choosing not to come to the house/not join the fraternity because of it. They smoke outside the rest of the year. It's time to suck it up and go out in the cold.

Sorry you don't believe that things like that actually happen. THEY DO.

All these tangent issues aside...

It's a very legitimate issue that they can't have a congregation of people outside during a party. It attracts attention. An open door lets out noise. Constant in/out traffic indicates an uncontrolled entrance, which (in my state) means law enforcement can come in without probable cause.

Having parties shut down for noise &/or people getting providing/MIP tickets is worse than dealing with a smell issue. That said, the smell issue has become a problem too, so they have to deal with it now.

I don't know the facility we're talking about here, so it's hard to find the easy solution that probably exists.

I would not be looking at filtered ventilation systems. They are expensive and require too much maintenance.

I'd try to figure something else out that eliminates the other issues with people smoking outside. For instance, is there something like a back porch I could tarp off & put a portable heater in during events (a lot of bars/restaurants do this with their patio areas when temps dip and they want to keep use of the space). If that's workable, I'd consider walling it in later on. If not, I could inexpensively add a covered area like that without a lot of hassle.

That may not be the best solution for this specific property, but I think it's headed in the right direction. We're doing something we don't like because of XYZ. So, we just need to mitigate XYZ so those factors become the lesser of the two evils. Banning or not banning smoking doesn't seem to solve the problem.

Agree with all of this, though for the record some smokers do notice. I do. Stale smoke is way worse than just smelling a cigarette, and it's impossible to get rid of totally. I do not often smoke in my car and roll the windows down totally when I do and it still reeks...and will forever. I imagine a closed off basement full of smokers would be totally rancid. I don't have a single friend that allows cigarette smoking in house and neither do the fraternities here.

I've gotten into this debate before with other smokers, but I've been smoking for about 3 years now...and going 4 or so hours without one is just not that big of a deal. When I visit my parents I do not smoke at all...which sometimes means a week. No big. I've been told for some people it's torture. Fine. I believe it is for some people, but I'm willing to bet there are just as many smokers like myself out there...as well as the smoke-when-drink crowd that aren't actually addicted at all. Go outside. If traffic in and out is that big of a deal, they can smoke before arriving and light up as soon as they leave. I'm betting the smell of stale cigarette smoke over the years would end up causing way more problems than smokers outside.

The smell issue will only get worse, and no amount of Stanley Steamer visits will completely remove it.

But your suggestions are good. I know the porch is one area a fraternity house here uses for smokers, and it's tarped off during especially cold party nights.

Another solution is to post a brother at the door where the smokers go out. Allow three to five out at a time. If the party is so big that this isn't practical, tell people they can't smoke. I doubt you're going to have many smokers so vehement about their rights that they leave. They should be used to it...you can't smoke in just about any restaurant, commercial building, or home now anyway.

There is no law about smoking in "homes" - if people who smoke choose to make themselves unwelcome in their own houses and exile themselves outside to smoke, that's their stupid business.

The tarp/space heater is an awesome idea and one many restaurants around here are using. It's no coincidence that many of the most vehement anti-smokers (I mean like famous people) are from warmer states where going outside is not anything of an issue.

That's nice, but that's not what the OP said was an issue. All these other issues were brought up as hypothetical by posters in this thread. So they're irrelevent here since the issue here is the smokers who don't want to go out in the cold.

And why the hell would a charter get pulled for smoking outside? That's beyond the idiot neighbors calling the cops for no reason, issue. If someone was going to pull the charter for that they'd have pulled it anyway for any excuse.

If homes includes apartments though, many apartments/townhomes/etc are smoke free. Most places that college students CAN live are smoke free.

And I suspect that the fact that the "famous people" don't smoke and thus don't go outside has more of an effect than their location. Never mind that more "famous people" live in places like California in the first place. Second hand smoke sucks, and smelling smoke in your home when you're not a smoker sucks too.

No one said anything about laws. The fact is, however, most rental properties are smoke free and most people I know that don't rent still smoke outside. You can end up spending a fortune trying to get the smell out when you go to sell it, and you probably won't be successful in getting rid of it entirely. Were my car worth anything I would never have smoked in it in the first place. Even some smokers might think it stinks too bad.

Like I said, I'm a smoker, and I don't understand what the big deal is. It's not worth ruining a dwelling and making anyone who doesn't smoke (which is the majority) uncomfortable when the solution is to just smoke outside. I just don't get it. And since there are ways to handle the crowd outside, it seems to be the solution.

Personally, I'd transfer to a school where it never gets that cold, but to each their own.

I can't speak for the given campus, I don't even know what school we're talking about, not that it matters. However, where I'm from avg parties are 3-500, small is 100 & big is 1000-1500. You can tell people not to smoke, but they'll just go to someone else's party instead.

You really have to balance and mitigate to appeal to your guests, or they won't show up. At that point, it doesn't matter what the house smells like cause you're not going to survive anyway.